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Bridgestone must be making a dent in ProV1 sales...


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#1 59Bassman

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:57 AM

I've noticed lately that Titleist seems to be getting more direct with their "swing speed doesn't matter" commercials, and "short game performance is most important" paid spots on Golf Channel.  I thought that the Bridgestone ball fitting was an interesting approach - particularly when it's recommending cheaper balls for higher handicappers. I've wondered if it's not cutting into sales of $50/dozen balls.

I always thought that Titleist's marketing strategy was focused on saying they were the best ball because everyone plays them.  Everyone plays them because they're the best ball.  You never saw any ball science, just shots of high tech manufacturing processes, then pros hitting the ball.  This new approach seems to be in direct response to the Bridgestone approach - including a lot of encouragement for high cappers (like myself) to shell out for the more expensive balls.

Just an interesting thing to watch unfold.


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#2 J13

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:14 AM

well as more companies offer a premium ball and the growth of the game isn't there that means the top dogs losing some market share. The down economy is actually giving other companies a chance to catch up.
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#3 GolfinGuy

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:30 AM

Consumers are finally getting smarter and the delta between Titleist and the other ball manufacturers is constantly shrinking. Also, as golf attracts new golfers, these people may not be good enough, or dumb enough, to actually care about the difference between a 2010, 2011, 2012 Titleist golf ball.

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#4 nuthin but a hacker

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:44 AM

Their last price increase sure seemed to slow sales. There are just too many options out there for less money and nearly the same performance. Plus I think many of us average golfers are finding out that maybe the Pro V1 and V1x balls really do hurt our game more that help it.
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#5 Llortamaisey

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:54 AM

If by dent you mean throwing a marble at 747 jet I completely agree.

I like the Bridgestone fitting philosophy better. It gives the player numerical data and in this day in age of technology that's more impressive. I wish Titleist would develop a similar fitting with launch monitor technology but still focus on the short game. Titleist's current fitting seems archaic and every fitter knows that the golfer isn't going to be honest with themselves without factual numbers to support.


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#6 59Bassman

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

View PostLlortamaisey, on 01 September 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

If by dent you mean throwing a marble at 747 jet I completely agree.


I understand this, but if it wasn't making a significant dent (or there wasn't concern about it), why would Titleist significantly change their marketing strategy?  Going from "look at all these pros who play our balls" to "look at all of these hackers JUST LIKE YOU who say the ProV1 is the bestest ever"?  I am certain that the ProV1 is till the bestseller by a wide margin, but something happened to make Titleist HQ a bit nervous.

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#7 Lamo70

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 04:34 PM

Titliest isn't nervous they are just widening the net to get as many consumers buying their product. It also educates golfers that their premium ball offering is not just for professionals and low caps.

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#8 jrsharp21

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 04:36 PM

I was thinking about this today also when I saw the commercial and they said that different compressions for different swing speeds is not really correct. My first thought was that it was the complete opposite of most other ball companies.

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#9 Tommymn

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:40 PM

If your a high handicap and play 4-5 dollar balls I feel bad for your wallet. It's rediculous that people think they need a high buck ball to shoot 90+. Play a cheap ball and get lessons.

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#10 cristphoto

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:19 PM

The ProV1's are good balls but not good value. What all the pros play (which has always been Titleists previous ad pitch) relates little to my game - even as a 4 handicapper. I used the ProV1 and occassionally the Prov1X ever since they came out. No more. For now I've switched to the Penta TP5 because it offers more performance than the ProV1 for a good deal less money. I get the same soft feel as the ProV1, more distance off the tee due to less driver spin, and the same short game spin. There is also noticibly less wear on the cover after a round. Today for $90 I can get three dozen Pentas or two dozen Prov1s. It's a no-brainer.

Edited by cristphoto, 01 September 2012 - 06:20 PM.


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#11 Instant Offense

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:24 PM

Crazy stat... Over .50 of every dollar spent on golf balls in the U.S. is spent on a Pro V1.

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#12 TheOx

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:36 PM

I don't believe it. Not one bit.

Even with their 4 dollar balls.

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#13 plus8

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:46 PM

View Postcristphoto, on 01 September 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

The ProV1's are good balls but not good value. What all the pros play (which has always been Titleists previous ad pitch) relates little to my game - even as a 4 handicapper. I used the ProV1 and occassionally the Prov1X ever since they came out. No more. For now I've switched to the Penta TP5 because it offers more performance than the ProV1 for a good deal less money. I get the same soft feel as the ProV1, more distance off the tee due to less driver spin, and the same short game spin. There is also noticibly less wear on the cover after a round. Today for $90 I can get three dozen Pentas or two dozen Prov1s. It's a no-brainer.

Agree completely. I have gamed B330's and Prov1's,  along with E5's, E6's, NXT Tours, NXT Tour S's, Penta TP5's, TP3's, and some lower end balls.  For my game, the NXT Tours, Gamer V2's,  or NXT Tour S's are just fine (I'm a 9.8 hci).  Prov1's really are great balls, but will they shave that extra 5 strokes off of my game, and is it worth the extra 20 dead presidents?  I doubt it -- at least not this year. I'm losing points with my putter - not my ball!!

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#14 BENNYSUPREME

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:46 PM

I think the Penta is starting to take a bit ot there spot light myself.  I have actually started to use them in the last couple of months.  Like it was said above I can get 3 dozen for the price of 2.
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#15 Instant Offense

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:22 PM

View PostTheOx, on 01 September 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

I don't believe it. Not one bit.

Even with their 4 dollar balls.
According to my Titleist rep.


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#16 J13

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:28 PM

Bstone, TM, Callaway, Nike, Srixon, are all taking market share.  Titleist is  a Great ball but as I've said before, they are slowly pricing themselves out of people's bags.  The "Titleist mentality" of charging and doing whatever they want because people will play us anyway is fading away.

Bstone's business strategy is to grow 1% in ball sales each year.  Guess what?  They've done it every year.
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#17 SLB_Golfer

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:55 PM

Switched to Penta TP myself.  The price / performance ratio just isn't there for the ProV's.

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#18 cristphoto

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:01 PM

View PostInstant Offense, on 01 September 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Crazy stat... Over .50 of every dollar spent on golf balls in the U.S. is spent on a Pro V1.

Possibly half of Titleist ball income may be from ProV1's but I really doubt they're half of the entire ball market.

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#19 Will Par

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:28 PM

Bridgestone is the competition.  The worst thing a product leader can do is ignore the competition.  Titleist has to step up and refute Bridgestones claims.  Besides, all golfers are gullible when it comes to golf advertising.  If Titleist doesn't fight back, we'll all start believing swing speed matters when selecting a golf ball.  We already believe it matters when selecting a shaft so why not the golf ball too.  I doubt that Titleist is losing market share, but it certainly makes good business sense to counter Bridgestone's claims.  (If Bridgestone is gaining market share, it's more likely to be coming from the other ball makers than from Titleist.)
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#20 njlam

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:43 PM

I love the Titleist Pro V1. In my opinion it has the best feel of all the premium golf balls and is long enough to make it the best ball in my book.

That being said, I agree with the earlier poster that the Pro V1 is not the greatest value.

I play the Pro V1 whenever I can, but rarely buy them for myself.

I often receive Pro Vs as gifts, and my company gives boxes of ProVs with our logo on them to our golf playing clients at the holidays.

Receving a box of a dozen ProVs as a gift is like getting the baby blue Tiffany's box, you know the giver cares....

However, when I am paying, I will always buy a premium ball that is on sale. Given the state of the economy and the deals offered at Dicks and other outlets, I have been able to pay less than $25/dozen (and in some cases less than $20/dozen), for Srixon Z Stars, Callaway Tour i(S), Taylormade Pentas, Nike 20XIs and Bridgestone BX-330S.

While all of these other premium balls don't have the exact feel of the ProV1, most are longer. I am not so great a golfer than these small differences matter to me, or that buying last years model will be noticable when I am actually hitting the golf ball.

When I see deals as described, I usually buy out the store's stock, so I have a lot of premium balls (over 10 boxes) in my locker

While I will always play a ProV1 when available/all things being equal, I am not willing to pay the $20/dozen premium to play their ball.

Should Titleist be worried? I don't know....I would be.

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#21 PZero

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:52 PM

My bag is almost full of Titleist clubs, but when it comes to balls, give me a Bridgestone over any Titleist any day.

By far, they are one of the most under appreciated balls on the market.

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#22 24vince

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:02 PM

Currently play ProV1x sorta....I really like the ball but not the price, I bought 3doz to start the year still have a doz left, I take 3 new ones with me for each tournament round(have yet to lose all 3) and take couple new ones with me to league but usually use the "been hit" ones for for league....If its a round for fun I'll use what I got, nxt tour, b330,srixon, penta(a beat up prov1x)....Not sure I can really tell the difference from the Prov1x but not gonna lie confidence level goes up when using a new one (prob why i use them in my tourneys)....

On a side note I got 2 free sleeves of Nike's new ball (x version) alittle while back....I really liked them and they are currently by 2 get 1 free so they average out to about $31 a doz thinking about picking up 3 doz....Anyone on here play these regularly, maybe switched from Titleist ball????

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#23 The Pearl

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:58 PM

Good discussion.  I agree with the general thesis regarding the pricing of the ProVs.  All of my golfing chums are pretty avid rec players and I don't think anyone of us actually buy ProVs off the shelf.  Like everybody's swing, ball expereince is very individualistic and often open to preconceived biases.  I am from the camp that if the labels were removed, etc, that most of us couldn't tell the difference. Sure, soft feel vs. clicky feel and/or visual spin differences would be noticeable but I am pretty confident most of us could not identify the brands assuming dimple patterns were controlled for.

With that said I am a bit of an anomally, 6 index with a slow swing speed, 87/88 with the driver.  In my experience, Titleist is correct, I have seen zero difference in ball performance based on compression.  Some of my longest drives have come with both types of ProV's and the Srixon premium balls.

A few general observations:

1.  Bridestone and Titlesit are very rarely on sale to the price points where I would stock up.

2.  IMHO the slow swing speed tour balls are the biggest ripoffs.  The Bridgestone RX and RXS are total marketing snow jobs.  The RX is an embarassment in terms of price vs. performance. I have not played the Srixon SL so I cannot comment there.

3.  The short game advantage of the premium balls is highly overrated.  Even most mid to high single digit players can't chip or pitch the ball consistently.  You still have to hit a nice, crisp, well struck pitch shot to get some juice on the ball and more importantly it does not matter what ball you play if  you have mediocre distance control.    If I had a dollar for everytime my playing buddies got excited for juicing a 30 yard pitch shot 15 feet short and two putting for bogey I could retire.

4.  Even most of the quality two piece balls will stop just fine on a well hit approach shot assuming you are playing on a decent course with well constructed and maintained greens.  With today's equipment, a decent player can get the ball up in the air with solid spin.  I doubt 99.9% of the golfing population outside of the tour and top flight amateurs have the distance control where 3 or 4 feet of approach shot run off makes a bit of difference.

5.  As far as working the ball, I can't do it, only slightly, even with premium balls.  I would like a much better player than me address this aspect. Can the really good players work the mid-teir balls?

6.  Assuming you are not playing in a parking lot or a goat track or a course with some other odd characteristics I would be surprised if the type of ball would matter at all in terms of score.  

7   Watching my fellow amateurs play and taking a serious in depth look at my own game I would say scoring wise here the biggest problems for most players...

Putting
Chipping
Drive the ball in the fairway
Course Management is abysmal.

Course Managment is my favorite. I have seen some people do some unbelivably stupid things on the course in terms of course management that makes you wonder about their sanity.

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#24 trashbar03

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:13 PM

I shoot in the low 90's and I play the titleist velocity. It makes me feel like I'm playing a tour ball and sorta makes me confident behind the ball I guess. Sometimes mental confidence goes a long way for me. Either way, I'd rather spend 26$ than 50$.
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#25 Quasimoto

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:43 PM

I used to use the Pro V1 but switched 2 years ago due to the pricing element, and the quality that comes with the new balls offered by other manufacturers.
Specifically, I went to Bridgestone B330 RXS for a while, but found that they work a lot better off the irons than the woods. I really don't know why, but I am at least 15 yds shorter off a driver with BS, and about 5 yds longer of an iron than ProV.

Then I went to Penta 5 and these are really a better ball than a ProV, re i agree with  njlam post above. Also, they are very consistent on distance.

But I also bought 6 doz Callaway Black last month when they were $27.30/doz. These are also a really great golf ball, and I can't decide which I like better Black or Penta. So I guess I'll just use both and buy when the pricings are right.

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#26 Jasond49

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:46 PM

I can't imagine paying $4/ball for anything. However always have them in my bag. One of the major pros of walking is keeping a lookout for errant tee shots left behind. Some dude who dropped half a c note on prov1x's and took the time to put multicolor dots on them must have had a rough ballstriking day as I found 5 brand new ones scattered throughout the front nine.

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#27 TheOx

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:01 PM

Lol.. that's just beautiful.

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#28 soregongolfer

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 01:21 AM

 TheOx, on 01 September 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

I don't believe it. Not one bit.

Even with their 4 dollar balls.

Used balls outsell new balls.  Something you have to factor in.

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#29 chet schwalm

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 04:52 PM

Local titleist rep is claiming their market share is up 7 % this year.


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#30 njlam

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:07 PM

It is worth noting that if all the different premium balls were offered at the same price. I would choose the ProV1 100% of the time.

As far as I am concerned, all Titleist needs to do to gain market share is to be more competitive (realistic?) on price.

Driver: Ping Rapture 12 w/MR Diamana BB R
Woods: Ping G25 4w & 7w w/TFC-189 S
Hybrid: Sonartec MD 25 w/IROD S
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Wedges: (SW): Ping Eye 2 Gorge w/DG Spinner
(GW & LW): Cleveland 588 Tour Issue w/DG S400
Putter: Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2 w/SuperStroke 3.0
Ball: Titleist ProV1 (2011)

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