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Golf's Master Key


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#31 JamesBurg

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:26 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 11 September 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

View PostJamesBurg, on 10 September 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

From heavybladed: "I was easily a full club longer with this method. For me, it definitely works."

I don't remember exactly how Bob Toski teaches the golf swing, but I always remember a phrase he uses.  It is something like this: "You need effortless power, not powerless effort."  While no swing is completely effortless, the master key swing feels very close to effortless to me.

I don't think I ever get the club to parallel at the top.  I have never been real flexible, but I am not far behind the long hitters.  I also enjoy hitting fairways and greens.

James, thanks again for keeping this thread alive.  My misses lately have been off the charts bad.  I pulled a 9 iron 30 yards off line and pushed a 3w about the same or more offline the other way.  It did throw me and I'm now a 4.4 hcp---and have had good success previously with the master key.

I think, for the pulled shot, I was pushing back with my lead shoulder but not allowing the clubface to naturally turn its face skyward at the parallel to the ground position.  I think I concentrated so much on the shoulder pushing that I held on to the handle too tightly and kept the face closed.  Divot was straight at the target line so the clubface must have been closed.
Have you heard of this before?

As for the way wayward 3w or driver pushed tee shots, I will have to examine those more carefully because upon reloading I didn't have that problem.

Will reread those pages 2,3,4,5.

I can only guess that for both of those misses you allowed your arms to take over and get ahead of your body movements.

Keep reviewing the full swing chapters (2 thru 5) and stay with it.  You will become your own instructor, so if you have a bad swing, you will immediately know what you did wrong.


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#32 Lockett

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 08:27 PM

I just got this book a couple of weeks ago. Obviously I am too think to understand it. I have had no success. I guess I just don't understand the concept because when I tried it I was getting half the distance and no consistancy. I have abandoned this but during the course of researching this one I found the Golf Swing Magic by Joe Dante. I tried it last weekend and hit the ball solid. I was really excited about the Noel Thomas information but the video and book just didn't do it for me.

#33 JamesBurg

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:29 AM

View PostLockett, on 13 September 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I just got this book a couple of weeks ago. Obviously I am too think to understand it. I have had no success. I guess I just don't understand the concept because when I tried it I was getting half the distance and no consistancy. I have abandoned this but during the course of researching this one I found the Golf Swing Magic by Joe Dante. I tried it last weekend and hit the ball solid. I was really excited about the Noel Thomas information but the video and book just didn't do it for me.

The results you got certainly tell me that you were not doing it right. I have seen a very few posts in other forums similar to yours. It is a mystery to me when someone does not understand it.

http://suite101.com/...er-tips-a133539

If you have not read this article, it is worth reading, whatever swing instruction you try.

I hope the Joe Dante instruction works well for you

#34 Sean2

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:58 AM

I worked on this for a while. I found I was hitting the ball left off the tee and hitting iron shots fat. I did hit some good shots but they were few and far between.

#35 HoganWoods

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:04 PM

My misses have also been fat, but I've hit lots of great shots as well.  I'll keep working at it.


#36 HateTheHighDraw

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:08 PM

View PostJamesBurg, on 14 September 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

View PostLockett, on 13 September 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I just got this book a couple of weeks ago. Obviously I am too think to understand it. I have had no success. I guess I just don't understand the concept because when I tried it I was getting half the distance and no consistancy. I have abandoned this but during the course of researching this one I found the Golf Swing Magic by Joe Dante. I tried it last weekend and hit the ball solid. I was really excited about the Noel Thomas information but the video and book just didn't do it for me.

The results you got certainly tell me that you were not doing it right. I have seen a very few posts in other forums similar to yours. It is a mystery to me when someone does not understand it.

http://suite101.com/...er-tips-a133539

If you have not read this article, it is worth reading, whatever swing instruction you try.

I hope the Joe Dante instruction works well for you

I don't like the advice, goign up with the left shoulder encourages a tilt instead of a turn on the downswing.  That causes chunks and a wide open clubface.

Edited by HateTheHighDraw, 14 September 2012 - 03:08 PM.


#37 HoganWoods

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:40 PM

View PostHateTheHighDraw, on 14 September 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

View PostJamesBurg, on 14 September 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

View PostLockett, on 13 September 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I just got this book a couple of weeks ago. Obviously I am too think to understand it. I have had no success. I guess I just don't understand the concept because when I tried it I was getting half the distance and no consistancy. I have abandoned this but during the course of researching this one I found the Golf Swing Magic by Joe Dante. I tried it last weekend and hit the ball solid. I was really excited about the Noel Thomas information but the video and book just didn't do it for me.

The results you got certainly tell me that you were not doing it right. I have seen a very few posts in other forums similar to yours. It is a mystery to me when someone does not understand it.

http://suite101.com/...er-tips-a133539

If you have not read this article, it is worth reading, whatever swing instruction you try.

I hope the Joe Dante instruction works well for you

I don't like the advice, goign up with the left shoulder encourages a tilt instead of a turn on the downswing.  That causes chunks and a wide open clubface.

Can you please elaborate on why it causes chunks and open clubfaces.

#38 JamesBurg

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:12 PM

Sorry, but I am getting a little frustrated here.  There seems to be an occasional negative comment from someone who has not read the master key instruction.  If you do not understand it, fine.  If you post misinformation about what it teaches, I do not understand that.

It never says anything about pulling the lead shoulder up.  Obviously, the lead shoulder has to go up and turn some with any good swing.  The instruction says that where the lead shoulder goes in the downswing is controlled by the picture in your mind of the clubhead path that you want, so where your lead shoulder goes is actually subconscious.

As for fat shots:  The impact position is not the same as the address position.  With any swing, you must be able to set up with a measure to the ball that you can easily come back to at impact.  You may need to experiment with that, and it may be a little different if you make a drastic swing change.  Obviously, to come back to very precise contact you must have the correct body positions throughout the swing, and body/eye coordination will help you do that if you will just keep your eyes focused where they should be.  See Chapters 2, 3, 4, & 5.

#39 Vintage1976

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:42 PM

View PostHateTheHighDraw, on 14 September 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

View PostJamesBurg, on 14 September 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

View PostLockett, on 13 September 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I just got this book a couple of weeks ago. Obviously I am too think to understand it. I have had no success. I guess I just don't understand the concept because when I tried it I was getting half the distance and no consistancy. I have abandoned this but during the course of researching this one I found the Golf Swing Magic by Joe Dante. I tried it last weekend and hit the ball solid. I was really excited about the Noel Thomas information but the video and book just didn't do it for me.

The results you got certainly tell me that you were not doing it right. I have seen a very few posts in other forums similar to yours. It is a mystery to me when someone does not understand it.

http://suite101.com/...er-tips-a133539

If you have not read this article, it is worth reading, whatever swing instruction you try.

I hope the Joe Dante instruction works well for you

I don't like the advice, goign up with the left shoulder encourages a tilt instead of a turn on the downswing.  That causes chunks and a wide open clubface.

Funny. I have not experienced that myself. That actually sounds more like the results of a reverse pivot to me.

Edit: Ironically enough i was hitting some poor shots this morning as my tempo was off (too fast). When I slow down enough to get back into sequence everything falls back into place. It is possible to move the lead shoulder while not getting your weight off of your trailing foot, but it's a distinctly different feeling (to me at least) to pull the lead shoulder up and around, and push down on the lead foot and heel at the same time, letting the big muscles in the chest and shoulders do the work as compared to the legs hips and butt.

Edited by heavybladed, 15 September 2012 - 11:11 AM.

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#40 Tanner25

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:42 PM

View PostJamesBurg, on 13 September 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

View Postjuliette91, on 11 September 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

View PostJamesBurg, on 10 September 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

From heavybladed: "I was easily a full club longer with this method. For me, it definitely works."

I don't remember exactly how Bob Toski teaches the golf swing, but I always remember a phrase he uses.  It is something like this: "You need effortless power, not powerless effort."  While no swing is completely effortless, the master key swing feels very close to effortless to me.

I don't think I ever get the club to parallel at the top.  I have never been real flexible, but I am not far behind the long hitters.  I also enjoy hitting fairways and greens.

James, thanks again for keeping this thread alive.  My misses lately have been off the charts bad.  I pulled a 9 iron 30 yards off line and pushed a 3w about the same or more offline the other way.  It did throw me and I'm now a 4.4 hcp---and have had good success previously with the master key.

I think, for the pulled shot, I was pushing back with my lead shoulder but not allowing the clubface to naturally turn its face skyward at the parallel to the ground position.  I think I concentrated so much on the shoulder pushing that I held on to the handle too tightly and kept the face closed.  Divot was straight at the target line so the clubface must have been closed.
Have you heard of this before?

As for the way wayward 3w or driver pushed tee shots, I will have to examine those more carefully because upon reloading I didn't have that problem.

Will reread those pages 2,3,4,5.

I can only guess that for both of those misses you allowed your arms to take over and get ahead of your body movements.

Keep reviewing the full swing chapters (2 thru 5) and stay with it.  You will become your own instructor, so if you have a bad swing, you will immediately know what you did wrong.

Ok, James. I hit some of the best shots of my life with the Master Key. I was even par after 7 holes with two birdies. Then on hole 8 and 9 I lost the master key. It was like a bad dream, I just started duffing it. It seems like I either am getting tired or only have so many of these swings in me during the round. Did you face this or is it something that you have to trust and stay with and it gets more consistant in time? I was thinking of using my old swing on balls that are teed up and the master key on balls on the fairway.

Tanner

Edited by Tanner25, 18 September 2012 - 07:43 PM.


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#41 Lockett

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:32 AM

I think the comment about the shoulder going up came from the article that was posted in the response not in the Master Key pamphlet.

At the beginning of the downswing if you move the left shoulder almost vertically into the air it works as though the legs have driven the downswing...

#42 596

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:50 PM

I haven't read the entire thread but,

When I'm hitting poorly or not as well as I like, my swing thought becomes "hit the ball with my left (right handed) shoulder blade".  This allows a full connected turn of the shoulders.  You can't hit the ball with your left shoulder blade without starting the downswing the same way.  When I do this I don't even need to think about arms, hands etc, everything falls into place behind the left shoulder blade.

#43 cardoustie

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:05 PM

Where can I find this book

Lately I have been going back and forth with two books >>>

Carl Lohren's One Move to Better Golf (complete focus on left shoulder) sounds similar to this Master Key info.  Great book.  The reprint focuses some on what Trevino, Couples and Nicklaus did similarly

Also trying to implement the takeaway from Joe Dante's Four Magic Moves . .especially keeping club outside the hands going back without flaring face open
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#44 JamesBurg

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:41 PM

Tanner,

I did not have problems like that, but the 3 guys I play with did. Yes, you have to trust it and stay with it, and keep reading the instruction. You should keep the Reminder List from the book in your wallet so you can refer to it on the range or while playing. If you just have the ebook, print one of those pages and cut out a Reminder List. Old habits may take over your swing at times, so you have to stay with this long enough to get rid of those.

#45 JamesBurg

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:46 PM

View Post596, on 20 September 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I haven't read the entire thread but,

When I'm hitting poorly or not as well as I like, my swing thought becomes "hit the ball with my left (right handed) shoulder blade".  This allows a full connected turn of the shoulders.  You can't hit the ball with your left shoulder blade without starting the downswing the same way.  When I do this I don't even need to think about arms, hands etc, everything falls into place behind the left shoulder blade.

I have not tried lead shoulder blade, but I think that should work.  Entire upper lead quadrant of your body may also work.


#46 JamesBurg

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:57 PM

View PostCARDY, on 20 September 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Where can I find this book

Lately I have been going back and forth with two books >>>

Carl Lohren's One Move to Better Golf (complete focus on left shoulder) sounds similar to this Master Key info.  Great book.  The reprint focuses some on what Trevino, Couples and Nicklaus did similarly

Also trying to implement the takeaway from Joe Dante's Four Magic Moves . .especially keeping club outside the hands going back without flaring face open

You can find the instruction with a web search for golf swing master key, or the golf swing and its master key explained.  I do not know if it can be combined with any other instruction.  I use Noel's instruction only.

#47 Tanner25

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:00 AM

View PostJamesBurg, on 21 September 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Tanner,

I did not have problems like that, but the 3 guys I play with did. Yes, you have to trust it and stay with it, and keep reading the instruction. You should keep the Reminder List from the book in your wallet so you can refer to it on the range or while playing. If you just have the ebook, print one of those pages and cut out a Reminder List. Old habits may take over your swing at times, so you have to stay with this long enough to get rid of those.

Thanks, James. I am glad to know some your friends had some similar problems and worked through them. I've noticed the first swing of the day is the hardest. As you said, it is hard to break old habits...30 yrs worth! Last week on the first drive (not intentionally), I didn't trust it and coming down, I got my right hand involved, not the left should only. The result was high and right. I'll keep you posted. Thx, again.

Tanner

#48 juliette91

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 12:17 AM

View PostLockett, on 20 September 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

I think the comment about the shoulder going up came from the article that was posted in the response not in the Master Key pamphlet.

At the beginning of the downswing if you move the left shoulder almost vertically into the air it works as though the legs have driven the downswing...

The idea of the forward shoulder moving upward at the start of the downswing comes from an earlier book by Henry Arthur Murray, "Golf Secret".  I had been doing well not thinking too much of which direction my forward shoulder was going as I began the downswing---other than concentrating on pulling my forward shoulder through the ball to the finish.
When I started thinking about pulling my forward shoulder upward to initiate the downswing I was experiencing what another poster here (HateThatHighDraw) said.  I was hitting the ball fat or very thin.  

The problem with trying to isolate your forward shoulder and get it to move upward at the start of the downswing---as the initiator of the downswing--is that it promotes a tendency
to tilt back and lose the spine angle set by your pelvis.  After a rocky 9 holes I went back to just feeling the movement of the forward shoulder being pulled through to the finish
and that works much better for me.

I think this "move forward shoulder upward to inititate the downswing might actually be what happens when you just concentrate on pulling the forward shoulder through to impact.
Since the swing is like a ferris wheel in its directional rotation, the forward shoulder pulling to start the downswing actually results in the forward shoulder moving upward anyway.

#49 Tanner25

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

3 rounds in. I am hitting the shots of my life. But, am also inconsistent. Has anyone found weight distribution makes a difference in this swing. Such as at address getting your weight towards the toes are bad and maybe getting on the arches are better? Just curious what your update is and your experience with any changes you made at address. Tanner

Edited by Tanner25, 23 October 2012 - 07:46 PM.


#50 davidy48

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:17 AM

Coincidentally I've been using " left shoulder down " as my solitary swing thought for some time now, combined with a S+T-like centred address position. For fun I bought the little book and the video. The book pays surprisingly little attention to the so-called Master Key, but does get it across in the end OK. However the video is the biggest joke in golf instruction I've ever seen - an out of shape old man who can barely walk or hit the ball, in his back garden swiping with a fairway wood at a ball on the ground, mostly with little success ! Don't bother with it, honestly, you'll start to doubt if this guy has any idea what he is talking about or can play a lick...


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#51 Tanner25

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:54 AM

View Postdavidy48, on 24 October 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Coincidentally I've been using " left shoulder down " as my solitary swing thought for some time now, combined with a S+T-like centred address position. For fun I bought the little book and the video. The book pays surprisingly little attention to the so-called Master Key, but does get it across in the end OK. However the video is the biggest joke in golf instruction I've ever seen - an out of shape old man who can barely walk or hit the ball, in his back garden swiping with a fairway wood at a ball on the ground, mostly with little success ! Don't bother with it, honestly, you'll start to doubt if this guy has any idea what he is talking about or can play a lick...

Are you referring to this? http://www.golfswing...m/feedback.html I don't think there is a video. Tanner

#52 davidy48

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:14 AM

OK, it's the DVD of course - I'm still stuck in the Dark Ages as far as technology goes....

#53 Tanner25

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

View Postdavidy48, on 25 October 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

OK, it's the DVD of course - I'm still stuck in the Dark Ages as far as technology goes....

My bad, I realized after, that's what you meant and there was a video (dvd, lol). Anyway, I think this is a great way to play, it has just taken a few rounds to get used to it and trust it. Towards the end of a recent round, I slowed down and trusted it and it was magic. In the beginning I overemphasized the pulling of the left shoulder through and it was not consistent. I can't wait to put more time into this swing.

Tanner

Edited by Tanner25, 26 October 2012 - 06:44 PM.


#54 juliette91

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:34 AM

View PostTanner25, on 07 September 2012 - 06:57 AM, said:

View PostJamesBurg, on 06 September 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

When I first bought the instruction in April, 2005, it was a printed book only and the copyright was 2004, so I am guessing that it was first sold in 2004.  I have exchanged some emails with the author, but I have not thought to ask that.

I'm glad I could help you.  I enjoy helping other players.

I do not enjoy playing behind slow players who obviously have no clue as to how to swing a golf club.  It's probably not their fault in many cases, because they have not found simple swing instruction that works.  That's my rant for today.

I hate slow play, too. But, you're right they don't know any better. Also, some of it is taking the game too serious or not serious enough (different thread).

Anyone else try this master key for the first time?

Thx, again!

Tanner

I have been using the Master Key approach now for about 3 months.  At first I had trouble feeling my lead shoulder initiate the backswing but what I do now is to feel like I'm holding
a tennis racket trying to hit a two handed backhand.  To do that in tennis one feels the hand of the other (not lead) shoulder pulling back the lead shoulder====instead of pushing
back the lead shoulder.  This has helped in another collateral way to extend my backswing a bit and help with the path a bit by preventing me from taking it too inside===which is a problem I consistently have.

Once I feel my lead shoulder (see my lead shoulder) go under my chin that triggers my downswing, initiated by pulling on my lead shoulder.  The Master Key describes this
lead shoulder move as one that is pulling "up".  I cannot feel this.  I just pull and in so doing it pulls my body across the target line so my back (non lead) shoulder is on the target
line at the finish.  So what feels like pulling across the target line (not down the target line) actually works.

I still fight the dreaded pull hook but not as much and I think that has more to do with my swing path than closing the clubface prematurely.

Anyway, that's my progress to this point.

#55 juliette91

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:12 AM

View PostTanner25, on 18 August 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Thanks, to JamesBurg, I tried Golfer's Master Key. Well, after a first tee (swing flubb , didn't have confidence), I struck the ball really well. I'd say, I had the two longest drives of my life. During the round, I was expecting to hit greens. It was an effortless swing. For those, who are not familar with the swing. You are basically using the lead shoulder to swing. Push it back and pull it through. I more or less just think of moving the left shouder both ways, I pull through naturally. It was only one round. But, I am very excited about the possibilities. I don't think it will take you from a 22 to a 2. But, I can see a decent & positive change with this swing. Anyone else have success with it?

Cheers, Tanner

Just a general comment on the Master Key and I invite others--James?---to weigh in.  I was quite skeptical about this entire idea of initiating the downswing by pulling the lead
shoulder through impact.  It didn't seem to account for the role of the hip turn to keep the arms from outracing the body---and leading to a "pull" kind of swing path as well as
a closed face at impact, together producing the dreaded pull hook.

Using the Master Key, I still pull hook occasionally but my bad swing is now more likely to create a "pulled" path and open clubface at impact thus causing the ball to fly (I'm LH)
immediately to the left without really any side spin.  It looks like a block path but the divot reveals it's really an slice looking path with the ball going the opposite way.

It's always surprising when it happens because it's so so far off the target line.  I'd like some advice about what you think causes this.  My take is that if I do not complete the backswing the lead shoulder pull will create a very slice looking swing path but also leaves the club face open to the target line.  Since the ball follows the club face, the ball goes
in that direction.

Tks for any analysis


#56 Tanner25

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 06:51 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 27 October 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

View PostTanner25, on 07 September 2012 - 06:57 AM, said:

View PostJamesBurg, on 06 September 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

When I first bought the instruction in April, 2005, it was a printed book only and the copyright was 2004, so I am guessing that it was first sold in 2004.  I have exchanged some emails with the author, but I have not thought to ask that.

I'm glad I could help you.  I enjoy helping other players.

I do not enjoy playing behind slow players who obviously have no clue as to how to swing a golf club.  It's probably not their fault in many cases, because they have not found simple swing instruction that works.  That's my rant for today.

I hate slow play, too. But, you're right they don't know any better. Also, some of it is taking the game too serious or not serious enough (different thread).

Anyone else try this master key for the first time?

Thx, again!

Tanner

I have been using the Master Key approach now for about 3 months.  At first I had trouble feeling my lead shoulder initiate the backswing but what I do now is to feel like I'm holding
a tennis racket trying to hit a two handed backhand.  To do that in tennis one feels the hand of the other (not lead) shoulder pulling back the lead shoulder====instead of pushing
back the lead shoulder.  This has helped in another collateral way to extend my backswing a bit and help with the path a bit by preventing me from taking it too inside===which is a problem I consistently have.

Once I feel my lead shoulder (see my lead shoulder) go under my chin that triggers my downswing, initiated by pulling on my lead shoulder.  The Master Key describes this
lead shoulder move as one that is pulling "up".  I cannot feel this.  I just pull and in so doing it pulls my body across the target line so my back (non lead) shoulder is on the target
line at the finish.  So what feels like pulling across the target line (not down the target line) actually works.

I still fight the dreaded pull hook but not as much and I think that has more to do with my swing path than closing the clubface prematurely.

Anyway, that's my progress to this point.

Good info, Juliette. I do struggle with the two things you mention. Trouble feeling/getting the lead shouder to start the swing and the pull hook.
I believe the latter comes from a too aggressive move with the lead shoulder on the downswing. Keep the updates coming!

Tanner

#57 Tanner25

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 06:54 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 27 October 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

View PostTanner25, on 18 August 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Thanks, to JamesBurg, I tried Golfer's Master Key. Well, after a first tee (swing flubb , didn't have confidence), I struck the ball really well. I'd say, I had the two longest drives of my life. During the round, I was expecting to hit greens. It was an effortless swing. For those, who are not familar with the swing. You are basically using the lead shoulder to swing. Push it back and pull it through. I more or less just think of moving the left shouder both ways, I pull through naturally. It was only one round. But, I am very excited about the possibilities. I don't think it will take you from a 22 to a 2. But, I can see a decent & positive change with this swing. Anyone else have success with it?

Cheers, Tanner

Just a general comment on the Master Key and I invite others--James?---to weigh in.  I was quite skeptical about this entire idea of initiating the downswing by pulling the lead shoulder through impact.  It didn't seem to account for the role of the hip turn to keep the arms from outracing the body---and leading to a "pull" kind of swing path as well as
a closed face at impact, together producing the dreaded pull hook.

Using the Master Key, I still pull hook occasionally but my bad swing is now more likely to create a "pulled" path and open clubface at impact thus causing the ball to fly (I'm LH)
immediately to the left without really any side spin.  It looks like a block path but the divot reveals it's really an slice looking path with the ball going the opposite way.

It's always surprising when it happens because it's so so far off the target line.  I'd like some advice about what you think causes this.  My take is that if I do not complete the backswing the lead shoulder pull will create a very slice looking swing path but also leaves the club face open to the target line.  Since the ball follows the club face, the ball goes
in that direction.

Tks for any analysis

For me, I find the slice comes from getting the right hand instictively (rightie) on the downswing, it is a very weak block to the right. I am still not quite sure what causes the pull hook. I'd like to find out why. All I know, I am hitting the iron shots of my life and getting comments from my foursome like we've never seen you hit the ball like that...and wow! I've have many more birdie putts than I used too.

Tanner

Edited by Tanner25, 27 October 2012 - 06:55 PM.


#58 JamesBurg

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:57 PM

View Postdavidy48, on 24 October 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Coincidentally I've been using " left shoulder down " as my solitary swing thought for some time now, combined with a S+T-like centred address position. For fun I bought the little book and the video. The book pays surprisingly little attention to the so-called Master Key, but does get it across in the end OK. However the video is the biggest joke in golf instruction I've ever seen - an out of shape old man who can barely walk or hit the ball, in his back garden swiping with a fairway wood at a ball on the ground, mostly with little success ! Don't bother with it, honestly, you'll start to doubt if this guy has any idea what he is talking about or can play a lick...

"The book pays surprisingly little attention to the so-called Master Key"
Maybe you missed the line where it says that the Master Key is lead shoulder control.  Lead shoulder control is then discussed at length.

As for the DVD, I know that it was made in 2010 only because of requests from some who are more visual learners.  Wanting to include left handers, I think it must have been difficult to get through that without using the words "left" and "right".

I have to disagree with your assessment of the swings made by the author.  They are short, demonstration swings, but they appear to me to be perfect.  If you pause those swings, and advance them frame-by-frame, you might learn something.  Of course, that would be true only if you are observant and willing to learn.  Here are just a couple of things.  Notice how far the clubhead is past impact before it passes his hands, and that his head stays back until well after impact.

By the way, just looking at that swing, I would guess that old man has shot his age or better many times.

Edited by JamesBurg, 28 October 2012 - 08:24 PM.


#59 juliette91

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:06 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 11 September 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

View PostJamesBurg, on 10 September 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

From heavybladed: "I was easily a full club longer with this method. For me, it definitely works."

I don't remember exactly how Bob Toski teaches the golf swing, but I always remember a phrase he uses.  It is something like this: "You need effortless power, not powerless effort."  While no swing is completely effortless, the master key swing feels very close to effortless to me.

I don't think I ever get the club to parallel at the top.  I have never been real flexible, but I am not far behind the long hitters.  I also enjoy hitting fairways and greens.

James, thanks again for keeping this thread alive.  My misses lately have been off the charts bad.  I pulled a 9 iron 30 yards off line and pushed a 3w about the same or more offline the other way.  It did throw me and I'm now a 4.4 hcp---and have had good success previously with the master key.

I think, for the pulled shot, I was pushing back with my lead shoulder but not allowing the clubface to naturally turn its face skyward at the parallel to the ground position.  I think I concentrated so much on the shoulder pushing that I held on to the handle too tightly and kept the face closed.  Divot was straight at the target line so the clubface must have been closed.
Have you heard of this before?

As for the way wayward 3w or driver pushed tee shots, I will have to examine those more carefully because upon reloading I didn't have that problem.

Will reread those pages 2,3,4,5.

I have what looks and feels like a fix for the pulled shots using the master key.  No question that pulling through the ball with your forward shoulder
could cause you to close the club  face too early and result in a nice looking swing path and a pull hook shot.

Since before the masterkey approach my main fault was a failure to get my lower body around fast enough to beat my hands to the ball, I used that
big idea and just made one small address position change.  This may or may not help anyone out there who is experiencing the same kind of problem
that I have had with the masterkey.  

Before I say what that is, let me first say that at address my back foot points slightly away from the ball and my front foot points a bit more than slightly
toward the target.  So what I did was to change where my forward foot was pointing, by pointing it more toward the target to allow the forward side of
my hip to turn toward the target more easily-----since it now has a real head start at address.

I found that I significantly corrected my pull hook.  It's not perfect but it's substantially better.

#60 Vintage1976

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:27 AM

I've been working at this swing for the last few months. Not much change in my handi, but my official season is over anyway.

I'm an open face player in general so that's probably the reason I'm not getting a lot of pull-hooks. When I have hit a few of them I have found that I am completing my backswing without turning my shoulders, I'm just lifting my arms into place. I used to get away with that move a lot more often, but I just can't now that there is a more deliberate through swing with so much more inertia and turn through impact. Focusing on turning my forward shoulder down under my chin is the only backswing thought I have needed using the Master Key and for me, it is pretty much necessary to make a good swing.

As Juliette91 mentioned above, my alignment also had to adjust a touch. I happen to have had a good deal of success with a closed stance (I believe James Berg touched on this also) and a square face, playing what I perceive to be a mini pull. What I would call about 5 yards' worth has been really consistent for me.

Heavy shots are a lot fewer. It used to be my predominant miss-hit, but they're a lot more rare now. I will still blade or thin some of them when I transition too fast, but it's not as consistent a problem.

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