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Carrying vs. Pushing; Legitamate Research


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#31 BrianL99

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 07:38 PM

 tweakedmelon, on 16 August 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Over the past few days, I have been entertaining the idea of getting a push cart. Now the problem with this decision is very similar to what I have seen splattered across the forum in many different topics, and I will throw OPINIONS out there, so that they really don't need to be repeated:

Pushing
Pros:
1) Less Fatigue (potentially better scoring and I will still want to go out and party on the weekends)
2) Healthier for back and shoulders by reducing disk compression?

Cons:
1) It hurts my 24 year old ego
2) Carrying is more "pure"

Basically, the pros in general outweigh the cons EXCEPT for the trump card: EGO. Now, I can get over my ego pretty easily. As someone fairly fresh out of college, it is very much like that first drunk hook-up with the crazy not-so-attractive girl everyone warned you about. Yeah, the first time it happens you get a lot of crap for it, but afterwards you think, " well who still got some action?"

Anyway, the point of this topic isn't for me to banter about personal pros and cons of carrying vs. pushing, but a quest for legitamate research on the health benefits or disadvantages of each option. Have any golf associations put out any clear studies on the impacts on scores or health from carrying vs. pushing?

Yes, there was significant research done in the UK.  I have the article and I'll try to find it for you.

Ask any doctor or chiropractor, they'll tell you that anyone who carries a golf bag is nuts.  That said, I still do it occasionally, but I have to listen to my Chiropractor playing partner torture me, the whole round.


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#32 Satang

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:54 PM

For the past twenty years I always walk and carry and I just turned 60 this March and play twice a week  with Mckenize Sunday Walker but only carry 13 clubs. You're only 24 and you should have no problem with your back just get a good light weight bag.

#33 cmrl1986

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:03 PM

How's this for research. I'm 25 and just had a Microdiscectomy on my L4-5. I only played football for a couple years so it wasnt a sports thing, never been in any accident, never injured my back. Carried a bag all my life (AGJA, amateur events, and regular rounds).  Now I push a 3 wheel speed cart and can't understand for the life of me why I carried a bag. Do yourself a favor and suck it up and buy a push cart. The last thing you want is to not be able to play golf, pick up your kids, or even work because of a surgery or injury. I'll never carry a bag again.
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#34 T-W

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:36 PM

If your shooting 67 who cares about ego?!!

#35 BrianL99

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:18 AM

 BrianL99, on 17 August 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

 tweakedmelon, on 16 August 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Anyway, the point of this topic isn't for me to banter about personal pros and cons of carrying vs. pushing, but a quest for legitamate research on the health benefits or disadvantages of each option. Have any golf associations put out any clear studies on the impacts on scores or health from carrying vs. pushing?

Yes, there was significant research done in the UK.  I have the article and I'll try to find it for you.

Ask any doctor or chiropractor, they'll tell you that anyone who carries a golf bag is nuts.  That said, I still do it occasionally, but I have to listen to my Chiropractor playing partner torture me, the whole round.


http://northwalesspi...010/10/Golf.pdf

http://health.usnews...ing-performance

Attached Files



#36 J13

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 06:52 AM

Pro's
Saves your back and shoulders from uneccesary stress
Makes round more enjoyable
Has a drink holder +10000
Holds an umbrella for you +10000
You can load your bag with drinks and snacks
Feet feel good after your round
Not be human muel for golf clubs
Save money (less temptation if tired to get a cart)
Makes carrying a large wet towel that much easier
Get more cardio (actually jog some rounds late in the afternoon between shots for extra cardio
And the biggest PRO out of them all
    You become a big boy and realize that worrying about whether someone thinks you look cool or not while you play golf was a complete waste of a thought and although your friends may make remarks they secretly admire you because your smarter then they are and they wish they had the balls to stop carrying their bag. :-)  

Cons:
It makes you realize "why did I ever carry a golf bag for 5 hours in the sun"
You may want to change professions and sell push carts for a living which could cause problems in your family life because your wife doesn't want you to leave your good job and risk it all. ;-)

Edited by J13, 18 August 2012 - 06:53 AM.

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#37 Andy L

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:23 AM

I'm 50 and in pretty good shape and switched to a push cart about 5 years ago and never looked back.

While I'm not a doctor, but rather engineer by education, here is a fact--- and it's factual of all moving parts including joints in the human body.  The more weight and stress you put on a joint when in motion the more mechanical wear will occur in that joint.

Carrying an extra 30 lbs, whether it be a beer gut or clubs on your back, will increase joint wear over time. I'm hoping that using a push cart will prolong the life of my knees,  hips and other joints.

The sooner you reduce that stress from your joints the sooner you reduce the rate of wear of long term fatigue.

Edited by Andy L, 18 August 2012 - 07:26 AM.


#38 Hateto3Putt

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:43 AM

I find it amazing that anyone would still carry a golf bag around a course...

So far in this thread there has been a total of 1 reason that carrying might be better...to walk across a green to "save time". If that move saves more than 30 seconds a day I'd be shocked.

To those guys who carry I have a question.... If you're in the supermarket buying a case of water that's at the back of the store, do you use a shopping cart?

(for the record, I carried for years)

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#39 Hacker#5252

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:30 AM

Carrying

Pros:
Goes everywhere
Can hold all I need
Everything is always accessible
Hands free
Takes less space in the car
Cheaper (no cart)
Better exercise
I like it
Manly

Cons:
Less durable bag
Pretty much the same price as a carry bag, but with less features
Fatigue sets in on the back 9, though if I played 3-4 times a week, it would be a non-issue
Tighter dividers
No chance of it rolling in the lake, which is always funny...for others


One also has to love those scientific research where they find out that pushing creates less fatigue than carrying: no s*** sherlock.

We're facing the Bush syndrome: you're either with us or against us. I must be one of those "special" people who doesn't feel contempt for people with different tastes. I do have a problem with people riding on an 11-hole par-3 course though even then, there may be good reasons to do so for some.

No matter how you play, how far you drive, how you dress: there is nothing particularly manly about golf. People who carry because they feel more like a man....it's laughable. I get validation elsewhere in my life, I don't need people to look at the way I keep my bag company and say: "Dude, that s*** is cool bro".

Among all the pros, the main reason I carry is I like it better, period.

Edited by Hacker#5252, 18 August 2012 - 09:32 AM.


#40 BrianL99

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:36 AM

 Hacker#5252, on 18 August 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:



One also has to love those scientific research where they find out that pushing creates less fatigue than carrying: no s*** sherlock.


There's no question that a push cart puts less strain on the body, but I think the fatigue factor is the opposite.  Last year I carried 50% of the time, used a push cart 50% of the time.  I am much less fatigued when carrying, than when pushing a cart on a hilly course.


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#41 Beatupfender

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

I'm 50, and I bought a carry bag for the first time this summer. I have alternated between it and my usual cart bag with push cart, and my oh-so-personal-and-not-at-all-scientific findings are that:

a) I'd rather push than carry, unless it's a quick 9 hole round, or it's a cool day and playing that round will be the only thing I do all day (i.e.: no work before or after).
b) if I carry, the last few holes will definitely be tougher on me, and my score will suffer.
c) using my push cart allows me to bring more gear in case of a change in the weather, and extra water, which I would likely forego if I had to schlep it around on my back.
d) a back that isn't sore and feet that don't hurt are ample enough reasons for me. I played a round at a mountain course a few weeks ago. Bad idea.

If your ego is fragile enough that you worry about what people will think should you use a push cart, you have a lot more issues than can be resolved with a carry bag alone.

PS: I have ridden the crazy chick many a time myself. Well maybe not the same one as you, but maybe her mom.
I am fifty, after all.

#42 Mschumacher

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:59 AM

Maybe these people are getting injured because golfers tend to be "unfit"?

Flame suit is on** :)

#43 Hacker#5252

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:01 AM

 BrianL99, on 18 August 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

 Hacker#5252, on 18 August 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

One also has to love those scientific research where they find out that pushing creates less fatigue than carrying: no s*** sherlock.


There's no question that a push cart puts less strain on the body, but I think the fatigue factor is the opposite.  Last year I carried 50% of the time, used a push cart 50% of the time.  I am much less fatigued when carrying, than when pushing a cart on a hilly course.

I was thinking of the legs, but I see your point that pushing may fatigue the arms more, which (wait for it) is what we use to swing the club. I hadn't thought of it that way: good point.

#44 golferlaird

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:02 AM

I bought an "electric caddy" this year and have been shooting some of my lowest scores ever.  Plus saving major$$$$ in cart fees at my club. It's nice to walk upright without having to push or carry anything.  It's so easy, I just set a certain speed in MPH and go.  You might get made fun of being only 24 Y.O. though... I'm 39 so I don't care.  The other 39- 40 year olds are now buying them at my course.  LOL

#45 Andy L

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 11:32 AM

 BrianL99, on 18 August 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

 Hacker#5252, on 18 August 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

One also has to love those scientific research where they find out that pushing creates less fatigue than carrying: no s*** sherlock.


There's no question that a push cart puts less strain on the body, but I think the fatigue factor is the opposite.  Last year I carried 50% of the time, used a push cart 50% of the time.  I am much less fatigued when carrying, than when pushing a cart on a hilly course.

Agree, sometimes hilly terrain, slopes and stairs can be a more inconvenient with a push cart and those are the times I've sort of missed carrying. But now that I have a huge Sun Mountain C130 there is really no going back to carrying.

The push/pull cart thing is sort of interesting.  People have been using pull carts for what seems forever, but push carts seem to have gotten a lot more popular over the last 10 years or so. Its funny, because no one really thought of pull carts being non-macho, but push carts seemed to initially have carried that stigma.  Now no one really seems to think twice about push carts being non-manly.

The one thing that I don't think anyone can debate, is that the more weight we carry, whether it be a beer gut or golf bag, it does put more stress on your joints, and that could prove to make you more susceptible to joint problems as you age.


#46 tommyv985

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:30 AM

 tweakedmelon, on 16 August 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Over the past few days, I have been entertaining the idea of getting a push cart. Now the problem with this decision is very similar to what I have seen splattered across the forum in many different topics, and I will throw OPINIONS out there, so that they really don't need to be repeated:

Pushing
Pros:
1) Less Fatigue (potentially better scoring and I will still want to go out and party on the weekends)
2) Healthier for back and shoulders by reducing disk compression?

Cons:
1) It hurts my 24 year old ego
2) Carrying is more "pure"

Basically, the pros in general outweigh the cons EXCEPT for the trump card: EGO. Now, I can get over my ego pretty easily. As someone fairly fresh out of college, it is very much like that first drunk hook-up with the crazy not-so-attractive girl everyone warned you about. Yeah, the first time it happens you get a lot of crap for it, but afterwards you think, " well who still got some action?"

Anyway, the point of this topic isn't for me to banter about personal pros and cons of carrying vs. pushing, but a quest for legitamate research on the health benefits or disadvantages of each option. Have any golf associations put out any clear studies on the impacts on scores or health from carrying vs. pushing?



How does your 24 year old "Ego" feel after its tired and sore after carrying the "pure" way for 18 on a hot an humid day? Haha, I don't mean to be rude, but that was what put the nail in the coffin on carrying when I walk (I'm 26). Also I now find I ride on a golf cart way less, I'd rather walk now because of the rhythm you establish while walking, you seem to be more in tune with your own shots also, you are not having to waste time going to your partners ball and watch them hit and wait to get to your ball. So I can personally attest it saves money on not having to pay for a cart. I can also say I finish my rounds better than I ever have, all because I'm not tired. I was in the same boat as you for a long time, I wasn't going to get a push cart till I was in my mid 30's or hurt somehow. But I tried a friends for 9 holes and kept going cause it was so easy.

Edited by tommyv985, 20 August 2012 - 10:34 AM.


#47 tweakedmelon

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:10 AM

 tommyv985, on 20 August 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:


How does your 24 year old "Ego" feel after its tired and sore after carrying the "pure" way for 18 on a hot an humid day? Haha, I don't mean to be rude, but that was what put the nail in the coffin on carrying when I walk (I'm 26). Also I now find I ride on a golf cart way less, I'd rather walk now because of the rhythm you establish while walking, you seem to be more in tune with your own shots also, you are not having to waste time going to your partners ball and watch them hit and wait to get to your ball. So I can personally attest it saves money on not having to pay for a cart. I can also say I finish my rounds better than I ever have, all because I'm not tired. I was in the same boat as you for a long time, I wasn't going to get a push cart till I was in my mid 30's or hurt somehow. But I tried a friends for 9 holes and kept going cause it was so easy.

My ego is virtually non-existent. The crazy/unattractive girl stories are too numerous to ever be able to have a big head. At the end of the day, everyone is right in this thread. Do whatever I feel better doing. This was obvious to me.

Now it's just getting myself to bite the bullet on the price. SHould have picked up that clicgear cart this weekend I saw...

#48 ShankOnYourFace

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:16 AM

here is my take.  I am 27 and have pushed since 25.  I broke down and rented a cheap cart at the course on a very hot day.  I played very well and was not sore at all.  Within a month I had a new clicgear.

You will shoot better and have more energy.  the only downside about the push cart is I cannot maneuver as easily around tricky terrain and the greens.

but I would throw your ego aside on this matter.  no one has ever gave me funny looks for pushing.  typically I get a "nice cart" compliment.  it is by far the best golf related purchase I have ever made.

#49 Fourmyle of Ceres

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:18 AM

FWIW, yesterday it rained a lot and I played "split" nines. Got in the first nine during a lat-morning lull when it tapered off to a drizzle then waited out some more heavy stuff and played my second nine at 4pm.

Anyway, with standing water in many places and soft, wet conditions everywhere the push cart was not a good option. So I carried my Titleist Lightweight stand bag on my shoulders. The morning round wasn't too bad since the rain sent me indoors after nine holes (and only about an hour fifteen minutes). In the afternoon the first few holes felt great but I made the mistake of continuing on after finishing nine holes. By the eleventh hole (20th of the day) my shoulders and back were killing me. I skipped from eleven green to sixteen fairway and played in. Today I feel like I've been run over with a truck.

So anyway, my point is twofold. One is that under some conditions pushing is not the best option. The other point is that carrying on the shoulders is definitely twice as tiring as pushing. Normally I'm good for 27 holes on any given day but not with a bag on my back.

#50 DLiver

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:40 PM

I am not against anyone pushing. Do whatever you like. But I find it hard to believe that so many young men are so out of shape that they are sore after playing a round of golf carrying their clubs. I think our country is getting more and more sedentary and out of shape, and we don't even seem to realize it. Heck going for a walk is now considered exercise. Exercise=exertion. Where is the exertion in walking? Anyway, back to your thread about push carts.

If you want to push, go ahead. It's great that you enjoy it! I like to carry for a lot of reasons. To each his own.

Carry on men. ;)


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#51 Fourmyle of Ceres

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:44 PM

So I assume you walk to work, always take the stairs instead of the elevator and cut your grass with a slingblade instead of a power mower. After all, you'll just get soft and fat using cars and lawn mowers.

#52 DLiver

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:32 PM

Way to take my comments to a ridiculous level. :rolleyes:  Great addition to this discussion.

#53 Panerai111

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:36 PM

I just bought a push cart this year.  I love it.  I can play 36 now, before I would be so tired after 18, I wouldn't even think of trying to play 18 more.

#54 johl

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:35 AM

pretty much the gist of it is-
push/pull- allows alot of people to play more golf
carry- some people find it more convenient to carry their clubs, whether it be because the only equipment they need is the bag or they just like walking the course 'as the crow flies' rather than around hills, greens etc.

either wy it should not matter. i dont care how anyone gets around the course, as long as they are out there doing what is best for their game and having fun.

#55 Fourmyle of Ceres

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:49 AM

 DLiver, on 20 August 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Way to take my comments to a ridiculous level. :rolleyes:  Great addition to this discussion.

And this from the guy who is blaming push carts for contributing to

Quote

...our country is getting more and more sedentary and out of shape, and we don't even seem to realize it.
:slow_en:


#56 DLiver

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:49 AM

 Fourmyle of Ceres, on 21 August 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

 DLiver, on 20 August 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Way to take my comments to a ridiculous level. :rolleyes:  Great addition to this discussion.

And this from the guy who is blaming push carts for contributing to

Quote

...our country is getting more and more sedentary and out of shape, and we don't even seem to realize it.
:slow_en:

I am sorry you missed the point of my post. Obviously your goal is to flame me, so there isn't any point in answering you further. Have fun. :)

#57 katbird

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:20 AM

I'd bet that a lot of pain from carrying comes from carrying the bag too low on the back....more people should shorten the straps and carry the bag higher so it doesn't hang much below the muscles that hold up your back...
as for pulling....I switch hands a lot when I pull so neither hand gets "left behind" too much and so they both can swing and stay loose during the walk...

I agree that when it's wet pull carts are more a pain than carrying...
My problem here in south Florida is that most courses don't let you walk at all...
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#58 Mudguard

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:11 AM

It's not so much my back, the last year or so I've noticed pain in my shoulder, no other way to explain it other than it just being in the very centre of it. I suspect it's the lifting of my bag onto my shoulder using one hand, as one tends to, lift with one arm, and reach and thread my left arm through. But it still doesn't stop those first few yards where it's just on one and I'm cleaning the club.
The other noticiable thing was in preparation for the club champs I was playing a few 36 holes to get ready. I was quite tired at the end of the day, then my strap broke, and I had to use a trundler, I felt so much better after 36 holes.

So I've just bought a clicgear. Yes of course there's annoying things like not skipping over creeks going straight to tees, but I like giving it a shove down the fairway and feeling like a tour pro with a caddy for ten seconds!

Anyway golf isn't cool, so what does it matter! The usual solution to someone giving you stick about something is to ask them what they shot...

#59 HackerD

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:26 AM

I've been pushing for several years for all the obvious reasons.  But the study on calorie burning is interesting where walking and pushing are equal;  with the cart you have extra weight to move (the cart itself).  In terms of overall exertion it cancels out(?).  I don't know if I'm less fatigued after 18 pushing vs walking, but my back feels much better.  Also with pushing, technique really doesn't come into it, whereas with carrying you have strap adjustment, lifting technique, etc., that if done improperly can contribute to fatigue / injury of specific joints.  Carrying for 18+ after pushing a cart for years is going to hurt the next day.
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#60 Shiram

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

To me it is a matter of personal preference. I push but I carried for years (as most people who push did). When I carried I definitely felt some bag related fatigue 16 holes in but that's not the reason I switched. I switched mostly because I got tired of taking the damn bag on and off 50+ times a round. It's a whole hassle that goes away with the push cart.

With a carry bag you approach your ball, take off one strap, take off two straps, set bag down, select your club. (or sometimes you grab your club while approaching the shot) Then you put your club away, pick up the bag, put on one strap, put on two straps.

With the push cart you approach your shot and select your club. When you've hit you put your club back and walk away. Fewer steps. Sometimes you have to turn on the cart break...

I push vs. ride in a cart for the same reason. To me riding in a cart (while sometimes fun) is usually just one more thing to worry about on the course. Where should I park? Is it 90* today? Is that a cart path? Walking is so much simpler and pushing is simpler than carrying.

Something to consider when you get advice from folks on carry vs. push... most if not all of the pushers probably used to carry regularly - most likely for years. Most of the folks who carry only and are anti push probably have only used a push cart a couple of times.

Again though, it's all personal preference. If taking the bag on and off 50+ times a round doesn't bug you and you'd rather carry - get a light bag and go to town. I've never met anyone who really cared one way or the other how someone else walks (push vs. carry).

Edited by Shiram, 11 September 2012 - 08:35 AM.


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