41 replies to this topic

[carldawgh]

(update) My most recent swing update is the first one listed below, however, I do not longer have the same issues as I have had in the past. Feel like my technique has become much better but still have lots to improve. cheers

Edited by carldawgh, 28 December 2012 - 03:50 AM.

[Coy M]

If your hitting it off the toe * which I do when I miss hit the ball * you could be coming up and out of the shot. Try staying down more through the the shot. Helps me. Hope this helps

[MadGolfer76]

To my untrained eye, it looks like you are jumping up out of your posture through impact. Look at some of the footage in the first vid. It seems like you are dropping down into the ball and then stalling your turn a little before jumping up in order to give yourself somewhere to go. Others can correct me if I am wrong, but that upward jolt might promote inconsistent contact.

[carldawgh]

MadGolfer76, on 13 August 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

To my untrained eye, it looks like you are jumping up out of your posture through impact. Look at some of the footage in the first vid. It seems like you are dropping down into the ball and then stalling your turn a little before jumping up in order to give yourself somewhere to go. Others can correct me if I am wrong, but that upward jolt might promote inconsistent contact.

I totally agree with you guys and I think that is what I need to work on. Thanks!

[jaylar]

way to much leg movement

[JPeacockGolf]

carldawgh, on 13 August 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

Hey, whats up? So recently I've really been struggling with hitting close or on the toe of the club. The result is a thin shot that is usually pretty straight but completely powerless. I've had so much better ballstriking with my irons in the past and this is really becoming a huge problem. No matter what i do in my setup I'm consistently hitting it off the toe. Please help! Thanks, appreciate it.

What's up man, that's some darn good action. Your issue is definitely a result of your left(rear) hip moving towards the ball. You can really see it in the super slow mo at around the 1:05 mark. Watch how your rear foot lifts off the ground and you lose the leverage needed to keep your rear hip from moving towards the ball.

You plant the front foot nicely but lose your leverage in the rear foot just before you come thru the ball. Keep the arch of that rear foot planted and your rear hip will continue to turn thru the shot rather than moving towards the ball. Now I am not suggesting keeping your weight on your back foot of course. Just keep the LEVERAGE it creates to anchor your rear hip.

Here is a good exaggeration of what I mean.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUZrBhhWXaw

Edited by thesponge, 14 August 2012 - 09:53 PM.

[CourtJester]

thesponge, on 14 August 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

What's up man, that's some darn good action. Your issue is definitely a result of your left(rear) hip moving towards the ball. You can really see it in the super slow mo at around the 1:05 mark. Watch how your rear foot lifts off the ground and you lose the leverage needed to keep your rear hip from moving towards the ball.

You plant the front foot nicely but lose your leverage in the rear foot just before you come thru the ball. Keep the arch of that rear foot planted and your rear hip will continue to turn thru the shot rather than moving towards the ball. Now I am not suggesting keeping your weight on your back foot of course. Just keep the LEVERAGE it creates to anchor your rear hip.

Here is a good exaggeration of what I mean.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUZrBhhWXaw

That advice is not that great.

In almost every great player's swing, especially ones that generate a lot of speed, the rear heel comes off the ground well before impact.

It is a physical reaction to the compression of the rear Quadratus lumbarum muscle (the internal muscle connecting the bottom of the 12th rib to the top of the hip).  From the top as an elite ball striker compresses the rear QL the right hip rises, the right shoulder lowers and the right heel comes off the ground so that the club may be thrown outwards towards the golf ball on a posted left side. (This is for a right handed player obviously, the opposite for left handers)

Tiger Woods, Ben Hogan, Rory Mcilroy, Jack Nicklaus, basically any elite ball striker you can think of utilizes this exact sequence of events from the top.

Edited by CourtJester, 15 August 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[carldawgh]

Hey guys, I really appreciate all your support, and here's a small update, I don't know if theres much change of action, but I was swinging really good atleast:

[JPeacockGolf]

@cj.  I'm not into Internet fights so we can agree to disagree, but telling someone to "throw the club AT THE BALL" is not a good idea. The club goes thru the ball, not at it. And I thi k if you watch the players you listed in slow motion on iron swings, you will see that their rear arch stays connected to the ground until after impact. The foot rolls to the inside and the outside edge of the foot does come up, but the arch stays planted until after impact.
And for gods sake DO NoT try to raise the rear hip in your down swing. The hips should stay level or have the rear hip a bit lower than the front.

@OP. that does look a bit better. Watch Rory,s iron swing in slow mo and pay attention to the planted arch in his rear foot. This forces the rear hip to continue turning rather than collapsing towards the ball. When the hip collapses towards the ball you must adjust the club to keep from shaking it. This is why you are catching it on the toes sometimes.

Edited by thesponge, 15 August 2012 - 07:50 AM.

[bacination]

thesponge, on 15 August 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

@cj.  I'm not into Internet fights so we can agree to disagree, but telling someone to "throw the club AT THE BALL" is the worst advice ever. The club goes thru the ball, not at it. And I thi k if you watch the players you listed in slow motion on iron swings, you will see that their rear arch stays connected to the ground until after impact. And for gods sake DO NoT try to raise the rear hip in your down swing. The hips should stay level or have the rear hip a bit lower than the front.

@OP. that does look a bit better. Watch Rory,s iron swing in slow mo and pay attention to the planted arch in his rear foot.

Yes and no.  Everybody 'throws' the club at the ball a little...  the difference between a terrible throw a the top and a driving throw right before impact which is what the pros do.  But yes telling somebody to throw the club at the ball is terrible advice.  Especially because this kid has a pure golf swing.

to the OP:  You have a slight crouch at the top which causes you to lift at impact, causing inconsistent contact.  Your hip turn is great, your legwork is fine, your planes are fine.

I would drill it out.  It is painstaking but you want your muscle memory to weed it out.  take a look at Tom Lehman's swing.  This is a drill you can do:

Learn to stay down through impact for consistent ball striking.  Put a golf tee in in the ground in front of your golf ball about eight inches away, on your target line.  Let about an inch of the tee show above the ground.  When you swing to hit your golf ball, make sure you clip the tee with your club on your follow through.

[JPeacockGolf]

It is quite an amateur line of thought to say that everyone throws the club at the ball. The club gets whipped through the ball. The words at the ball should be nowhere near the golf swing.

It is also an amateur to say his crouch, or squat, is causing him to come up in his downswing. His rear hip collapsing towards the ball is giving him nowhere to go but up. The squat connects him to the ground as he changes directions. This is a really good thing. The problem lies in that when the rear hip collapses towards the ball, there is no where to go but up. If you want to actually connect with the ball that is.

I think the answer is to slow it down a bit, and hit some three-quarter shots with a sawed off finish. I saw where you tried to hit a few in the video, but they were not quite right. It should feel like a really firm whip through the ball as it striking a huge match on the turf. Make sure to really get planted on that front foot, and keep your rear arch planted to anchor the hip and force it to turn through. Imagine hitting down and through it and hitting a hot low draw.

Edited by thesponge, 15 August 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[JPeacockGolf]

Check out his rear foot here. I'm on mobile so not sure how to embed, if someone else can do the honor.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=cCAgoHfrxao

[bacination]

thesponge, on 15 August 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

It is quite an amateur line of thought to say that everyone throws the club at the ball. The club gets whipped through the ball. The words at the ball should be nowhere near the golf swing.

It is also an amateur to say his crouch, or squat, is causing him to come up in his downswing. His rear hip collapsing towards the ball is giving him nowhere to go but up. The squat connects him to the ground as he changes directions. This is a really good thing. The problem lies in that when the rear hip collapses towards the ball, there is no where to go but up. If you want to actually connect with the ball that is.

I think the answer is to slow it down a bit, and hit some three-quarter shots with a sawed off finish. I saw where you tried to hit a few in the video, but they were not quite right. It should feel like a really firm whip through the ball as it striking a huge match on the turf. Make sure to really get planted on that front foot, and keep your rear arch planted to anchor the hip and force it to turn through. Imagine hitting down and through it and hitting a hot low draw.

Ok buddy, yes I am an amateur.  I am an amateur with a few national am champ trophies on my display case, two course records, three junior amateur championships, and a decent college record (i partied a lot in college).  Then again I have only been playing golf since the age of 7... so that only gives me 24 years of golf (not much for golf)... admittedly, like all of us, I have a lot to learn.. in fact even still I work on my swing.

Nonetheless, a significant crouch at the top with out a compensating 'ab crunch' as the pros do will cause a lift 100% of the time.

Also,
A throw at the ball happens because it is the law of physics, the shaft will keep its load until the point where it releases the energy stored to the tip of the club which ideally is at the point a millisecond before impact.  This is what maximizes the efficiency of the golf swing. SO yes, everybody THROWS the club at it at some point, the best of players DRIVE the club until the very last second where the shaft will pay off its load... that means it is let go at the best possible point before impact.  

If you were a miracle worker, which I guarantee YOU are not, and could hold the shaft load through impact, the ball would not go very far at all, as the energy of the shaft would not have been applied to the ball.

This is the way shaft dynamics work.

To the OP: you should also look up "Early Extension Drills" on youtube.  Best of luck and dont mind the trolls!

Edited by bacination, 15 August 2012 - 11:07 AM.

[JPeacockGolf]

That's quite an impressive record..........

I bet you money you cannot find one reputable teacher, or pro who tries to throw the club at the ball. Sure the clubhead moves towards and hits the ball, but there is not a single pro who's intention is to throw the clubhead at the ball. High-level golfers are target focused, not ball focused. Your intention should be to whip the club through the ball towards the target. If your intention is to throw the clubhead at the ball, the most efficient way to do that is to stand up out of your posture and throw the clubhead at, usually over-the-top. At the ball is a very dangerous phrase, especially for a young golfer.

So in your words you say the pros do squat but add an ab crunch with it, why would you tell the original poster not to squat? I assume by ab crunch you mean turning the hips. If he keeps his right arch connected to the ground and turns his hips he will be in a perfect position to whip thru the ball.

As I said before, I'm not into Internet fights and I'm not trying to argue. We can simply discuss the differences cordially.  There is no need for name calling, that is also a bit
amateur.

Edited by thesponge, 15 August 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[bacination]

thesponge, on 15 August 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

That's quite an impressive record..........

I bet you money you cannot find one reputable teacher, or pro who tries to throw the club at the ball. Sure the clubhead moves towards and hits the ball, but there is not a single pro who's intention is to throw the clubhead at the ball. High-level golfers are target focused, not ball focused. Your intention should be to whip the club through the ball towards the target. If your intention is to throw the clubhead at the ball, the most efficient way to do that is to stand up out of your posture and throw the clubhead at, usually over-the-top. At the ball is a very dangerous phrase, especially for a young golfer.

So in your words you say the pros do squat but add an ab crunch with it, why would you tell the original poster not to squat? I assume by ab crunch you mean turning the hips. If he keeps his right arch connected to the ground and turns his hips he will be in a perfect position to whip thru the ball.

As I said before, I'm not into Internet fights and I'm not trying to argue. We can simply discuss the differences cordially.  There is no need for name calling, that is also a bit
amateur.

Name calling?  You are the one calling me amateur like its a bad thing...  

I am done with this interaction, as it seems too hard to get any logic to penetrate.  If you actually took the time to read, my advice was to stay down through the squat a la tom lehman.

Best of luck to you.

Edited by bacination, 15 August 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[JPeacockGolf]

I'm sorry if I offended you with the word amateur. I think we are all amateurs here. What I meant was suggesting that someone should throw the clubhead at the ball is amateur advice. It will only lead to bad things. I'm pretty sure you suggested that the original poster should not squat in his downswing. Tom Lehman has one of the Best squat moves out there. To say you suggested a move like that to the original poster is simply not true. You implied that his squat was causing him to come up and out of the shot, which is incorrect.

To the original poster, I'm sorry your thread got turned into this! Do what you will with the advice, but just watch Rory swing closely. I think you will see what I mean.

[simple36]

My swing coach tries to get me to have my left shoulder over my right leg/right side. So for a lefty it would be your right shoulder over your left leg. Also looks like at the top of your backswing your right side drops down a lot lower than your right side. When you swing through you must compensate by really "jumping" out of your swing. Next thing I would suggest is your "pull" your right shoulder out of the swing on the downswing. When you do this you have a very positive attack angle. With a driver that can be alright, in fact Bubba does it very well, it is why he can get such a high launch with low spin. It looks like you are trying to help the ball get up in the air. With your irons you want to "drive" more. Keep that right shoulder down and drive through the ball. This will help you get better ball striking with your irons. I would also suggest getting a fitting. I was constantly hitting the ball off the heel of my irons and I went to get fit by my swing coach and we ended up going +1 1/5". Just my suggestions, junior golfer to junior golfer.

[carldawgh]

simple36, on 15 August 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

My swing coach tries to get me to have my left shoulder over my right leg/right side. So for a lefty it would be your right shoulder over your left leg. Also looks like at the top of your backswing your right side drops down a lot lower than your right side. When you swing through you must compensate by really "jumping" out of your swing. Next thing I would suggest is your "pull" your right shoulder out of the swing on the downswing. When you do this you have a very positive attack angle. With a driver that can be alright, in fact Bubba does it very well, it is why he can get such a high launch with low spin. It looks like you are trying to help the ball get up in the air. With your irons you want to "drive" more. Keep that right shoulder down and drive through the ball. This will help you get better ball striking with your irons. I would also suggest getting a fitting. I was constantly hitting the ball off the heel of my irons and I went to get fit by my swing coach and we ended up going +1 1/5". Just my suggestions, junior golfer to junior golfer.

Thanks for the tips mate! Like with everything you do I guess I'll have to try things out and experiment and see how it affects my swing. To go get fitted seems like a very good idea since a pro already told me that I was adapting my posture to my clubs instead of the other way around.

[CourtJester]

thesponge, on 15 August 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

That's quite an impressive record..........

I bet you money you cannot find one reputable teacher, or pro who tries to throw the club at the ball. Sure the clubhead moves towards and hits the ball, but there is not a single pro who's intention is to throw the clubhead at the ball. High-level golfers are target focused, not ball focused. Your intention should be to whip the club through the ball towards the target. If your intention is to throw the clubhead at the ball, the most efficient way to do that is to stand up out of your posture and throw the clubhead at, usually over-the-top. At the ball is a very dangerous phrase, especially for a young golfer.

So in your words you say the pros do squat but add an ab crunch with it, why would you tell the original poster not to squat? I assume by ab crunch you mean turning the hips. If he keeps his right arch connected to the ground and turns his hips he will be in a perfect position to whip thru the ball.

As I said before, I'm not into Internet fights and I'm not trying to argue. We can simply discuss the differences cordially.  There is no need for name calling, that is also a bit
amateur.

Whether it is explicitly taught or not isn't really relevant.

The physical action of the golf swing involves the clubhead being thrown from the top with the left shoulder as the pivot point and the left leg as the post for which the club moves around the pivot.
The right side of the body (for a right hand golfer) provides the power in the swing, as the right side is literally THROWN down, towards, and through the golf ball.

The golf swing is almost exactly the same action as an underhanded soft ball pitch, or as Shawn Clement would demonstrate, literally throwing the golf club.





As long as the left side post is established early in the transition, the right side can compress (right side QL muscle) and be thrown at the ball pretty much as hard as you want.  You mentioned being Over The Top.  You are right to some extent.  In a great golf swing, the golfer is actually OTT, however he is OTT from the inside-out instead of the outside-in.



Sam Snead throwing his right side around his left post.  Right heel coming off the ground before impact.  Right side QL muscle compressed, right hip raised to level with the left hip, right shoulder lowered towards the right hip.

Edited by CourtJester, 15 August 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[JPeacockGolf]

Getting fitted is VERY important!!

I am a very loyal follower of Shawn. And Shawn advocates throwing the club AT THE TARGET.... NOT at the ball. There is a huge difference between the two. His throw the club drill is actually to break the cycle of hitting AT the ball. And of all people, Shawn will tell you that keeping the rear foot anchored is KEY to a proper hip turn. The picture of Snead shows his arch is still planted as his foot has ROLLED not lifted. And his rear hip has not moved towards the ball, giving him room to swing thru. He has not swung around his left side, he has swung against his left side. If he swung around his left side his whole right side would swing towards the ball like a screen door.

It is a common misconception that you swing "around" the front leg. This WILL cause the rear hip to swing towards the ball. In actuallity the whole pelvis turns on top of BOTH hips. Meaning you are actually turning your whole pelvis which is braced against the left side... You swing AGAINST the left side not around it.

Edited by thesponge, 15 August 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[CourtJester]

thesponge, on 15 August 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Getting fitted is VERY important!!

I am a very loyal follower of Shawn. And Shawn advocates throwing the club AT THE TARGET.... NOT at the ball. There is a huge difference between the two. His throw the club drill is actually to break the cycle of hitting AT the ball. And of all people, Shawn will tell you that keeping the rear foot anchored is KEY to a proper hip turn.

I agree you still want to be target focused.

However, telling one to swing through the ball and towards the target is to get them out of the mindset of hitting AT the ball.

The only physical way to make contact with the ball is for the club and body to be thrown down, towards, and ultimately through the ball and finally at your target.

[JPeacockGolf]

Golf is not about hitting balls, it's about hitting targets....... Now for the sake of Carl's thread lets move this discussion to a new thread!!!!

[simple36]

carldawgh, on 15 August 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

simple36, on 15 August 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

My swing coach tries to get me to have my left shoulder over my right leg/right side. So for a lefty it would be your right shoulder over your left leg. Also looks like at the top of your backswing your right side drops down a lot lower than your right side. When you swing through you must compensate by really "jumping" out of your swing. Next thing I would suggest is your "pull" your right shoulder out of the swing on the downswing. When you do this you have a very positive attack angle. With a driver that can be alright, in fact Bubba does it very well, it is why he can get such a high launch with low spin. It looks like you are trying to help the ball get up in the air. With your irons you want to "drive" more. Keep that right shoulder down and drive through the ball. This will help you get better ball striking with your irons. I would also suggest getting a fitting. I was constantly hitting the ball off the heel of my irons and I went to get fit by my swing coach and we ended up going +1 1/5". Just my suggestions, junior golfer to junior golfer.

Thanks for the tips mate! Like with everything you do I guess I'll have to try things out and experiment and see how it affects my swing. To go get fitted seems like a very good idea since a pro already told me that I was adapting my posture to my clubs instead of the other way around.

I was doing the same. Being 5'10" I NEVER expected my clubs to be 1 1/2" over standard length for where I was buying from. The standard 7 iron length for them was 37" and I needed a 38 1/2" 7 iron and we simply built my set around that. Do you take lessons anywhere or have you in the past? If not I would suggest going in because while you may know what you NEED to do differently, actually changing it is the hard part. When you go in for lessons they can give you all sorts of drills to get you where you need to be rather than where you are. From there it is all about getting your muscles to be able to repeat that swing over and over again. Best of luck to you in finding your swing!

[CourtJester]

thesponge, on 15 August 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Golf is not about hitting balls, it's about hitting targets....... Now for the sake of Carl's thread lets move this discussion to a new thread!!!!

You're totally right.

Who needs golf balls, let's just hit targets.

Who needs baseballs, let's just hit targets.

Not to mention basketball, why do they even need the ball?  All basketball players are doing is shooting to a target.

I truly thank you for this revelation that Golf is not about hitting balls, now I can take all the balls out of my bag and save a few bucks each year.

Edited by CourtJester, 15 August 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[carldawgh]

simple36, on 15 August 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

carldawgh, on 15 August 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

simple36, on 15 August 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

My swing coach tries to get me to have my left shoulder over my right leg/right side. So for a lefty it would be your right shoulder over your left leg. Also looks like at the top of your backswing your right side drops down a lot lower than your right side. When you swing through you must compensate by really "jumping" out of your swing. Next thing I would suggest is your "pull" your right shoulder out of the swing on the downswing. When you do this you have a very positive attack angle. With a driver that can be alright, in fact Bubba does it very well, it is why he can get such a high launch with low spin. It looks like you are trying to help the ball get up in the air. With your irons you want to "drive" more. Keep that right shoulder down and drive through the ball. This will help you get better ball striking with your irons. I would also suggest getting a fitting. I was constantly hitting the ball off the heel of my irons and I went to get fit by my swing coach and we ended up going +1 1/5". Just my suggestions, junior golfer to junior golfer.

Thanks for the tips mate! Like with everything you do I guess I'll have to try things out and experiment and see how it affects my swing. To go get fitted seems like a very good idea since a pro already told me that I was adapting my posture to my clubs instead of the other way around.

I was doing the same. Being 5'10" I NEVER expected my clubs to be 1 1/2" over standard length for where I was buying from. The standard 7 iron length for them was 37" and I needed a 38 1/2" 7 iron and we simply built my set around that. Do you take lessons anywhere or have you in the past? If not I would suggest going in because while you may know what you NEED to do differently, actually changing it is the hard part. When you go in for lessons they can give you all sorts of drills to get you where you need to be rather than where you are. From there it is all about getting your muscles to be able to repeat that swing over and over again. Best of luck to you in finding your swing!

I've taken around 5 lessons total. Yes it might be a good idea to have a few more but it can be quite hard to find a really good pro around here. There's alot of information and different theories about how you should swing and sometimes it can get confusing and maybe that's reason enough to have a pro check you out every once in a while provided that the pro knows his stuff.

[simple36]

That sounds like a good idea to me. The important thing is to find one pro who you like and stick with them. Otherwise the different pro's views on the swing can negatively effect your game. I found my pro who I like. His name is John Green and he works at the golf galaxy in Woodbury MN but also does lessons at Oak Marsh golf course and Eagle Valley golf course. His swing theory is that you must have a good takeaway to have a good swing. The first thing he works on is getting your takeaway right and that ends up fixing about 80% of people's swing flaws. from there it is just a little tweaking here and there. I know that I went somewhere to get fit and they tried giving me swing tips that were exactly the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish with my coach.

[mikpga]

Great action!

Perhaps a young left handed Rory!

I'm not going to add any thoughts for to ponder upon...

Keep up the great work!

[JPeacockGolf]

You have huge talent bro. Keep at it. Watch the pros and try to FEEL what you see. Pay close attention to the rear foot and hip.

[MadGolfer76]

I hope people can get back on track and help this kid (OP) like he asked.

[golow]

MadGolfer76, on 15 August 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

I hope people can get back on track and help this kid (OP) like he asked.

Agreed. Here goes. You are young and trying to maximize speed. When you get stronger your dynamics will quiet. You are on your way.

In the first two vids your weight at address is over your toes. At impact you are early extension city. Set up with the ball in line with the center of a wedge face with the over the toes set up. Slowly move into and impact position. Slowly stand up with hip and thoracic extension. Tell me - does the toe dig, heel raise and leading edge slide closer to your feet ? The answer is yes every time. There's your toe hit.

The update vid when your are hitting it better: Much better weight distribution at address. Still with early extension.

Even if you don't use a Slicefixer method adhere to one of his teachings ... back hip is lower than the lead all the way thru the swing. Watch the Mcilroy swings. He does it even with his odd hip stall/direction change.

Hopefully Monte et al will see this thread soon and clear things up for you.

golow™