16 replies to this topic

[pencilwhipper]

just curious if anyone else uses this guide... this guide is based off of selling prices of the items on ebay..

[naj959]

I just search the item on ebay and list my item at a price that will compete with similar items listed. Sometimes the bluebook is a little low in my opinion. I sold a few items for more than they booked at. It really depends on how desirable your item is. I got quite a few offers and sold my rife putter for quite a bit more than it booked out at. My Fast 10 on the other hand is close to, maybe even below book and it seems like I cant give it away.

[djpvt]

I do but I think it may be on the low side as well because I don't think it takes into account when some iron sets are 7 versus 8 clubs and then obviously doesn't take into account the shape of a set.

For single clubs it may be a little better. Nonetheless a good starting point when you are looking to sell or buy used.

[Evolved]

djpvt, on 29 July 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

I do but I think it may be on the low side as well because I don't think it takes into account when some iron sets are 7 versus 8 clubs and then obviously doesn't take into account the shape of a set.

For single clubs it may be a little better. Nonetheless a good starting point when you are looking to sell or buy used.

I wonder if it throws out the low and the high to find an average. Otherwise some ebay sales could really drag the price down.

[Llortamaisey]

There are two things that throw the PGA value guide off:

1. Tour issue clubs. These typically sell for a higher value than their retail counterparts but the Value Guide does not distinguish between the two.

2. Fagazzi Clubs. Fake clubs sell for a lot cheaper than the real ones. There are tons of fakes on eBay. The Value Guide incoroporates the sales price of the fakes into the values of the real clubs, thus bringing the value down drastically.

Because there are many more fake clubs than tour issue clubs, trade-in values and resell values are much lower than they should be on the PGA Value Guide.

[Pudgelewis]

Llortamaisey, on 29 July 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

There are two things that throw the PGA value guide off:

1. Tour issue clubs. These typically sell for a higher value than their retail counterparts but the Value Guide does not distinguish between the two.

2. Fagazzi Clubs. Fake clubs sell for a lot cheaper than the real ones. There are tons of fakes on eBay. The Value Guide incoroporates the sales price of the fakes into the values of the real clubs, thus bringing the value down drastically.

Because there are many more fake clubs than tour issue clubs, trade-in values and resell values are much lower than they should be on the PGA Value Guide.

Fake clubs wouldn't figure in, IMO, because people buying them don't know they're fake.  There may be a few instances where someone lists a club as a fake [insert club here], but most people buying them don't pay significantly less for them because they think they're bidding on a real one.  Just the way I see it,

[B-Man]

It's a bunch of crap. Just look who it is created and managed by? (bottom left of front page) 3balls.com!  If it was operated by an independent third party not directly associated in the sale of used clubs, then I might trust it a little more.

[Pudgelewis]

B-Man, on 29 July 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

It's a bunch of crap. Just look who it is created and managed by? (bottom left of front page) 3balls.com!  If it was operated by an independent third party not directly associated in the sale of used clubs, then I might trust it a little more.

Is it based off 3Balls completed auctions or all auctions?  3Balls items seem to almost always sell on the low end.  Probably because they are notorious for their "representative" photos being off and the fact that they use those photos in the first place rather than actual photos.

[thevaporz]

naj959, on 29 July 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

I just search the item on ebay and list my item at a price that will compete with similar items listed. Sometimes the bluebook is a little low in my opinion. I sold a few items for more than they booked at. It really depends on how desirable your item is. I got quite a few offers and sold my rife putter for quite a bit more than it booked out at. My Fast 10 on the other hand is close to, maybe even below book and it seems like I cant give it away.

Exactly. It's a good starting point but checking current auctions will help determine potential value. I've sold plenty of clubs for higher than what pgavalueguide showed for them. I think my presentation (hq pictures of all angles) and thorough descriptions help. So does reputation (i.e. feedback score). Free shipping works very well, too. But there are some things I can't seem to sell either. I have a set of aftermarket forged irons in good shape but there doesn't seem to be any brand recognition and therefore no interest in buying them. I think they're good sticks but I don't need them anymore. Listed 'em for a couple months and ate about $30 in listing fees.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

There are quite a few who actually believe that site is owned and maintained by the PGA.

[Llortamaisey]

Pudgelewis, on 29 July 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Llortamaisey, on 29 July 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

There are two things that throw the PGA value guide off:

1. Tour issue clubs. These typically sell for a higher value than their retail counterparts but the Value Guide does not distinguish between the two.

2. Fagazzi Clubs. Fake clubs sell for a lot cheaper than the real ones. There are tons of fakes on eBay. The Value Guide incoroporates the sales price of the fakes into the values of the real clubs, thus bringing the value down drastically.

Because there are many more fake clubs than tour issue clubs, trade-in values and resell values are much lower than they should be on the PGA Value Guide.

Fake clubs wouldn't figure in, IMO, because people buying them don't know they're fake.  There may be a few instances where someone lists a club as a fake [insert club here], but most people buying them don't pay significantly less for them because they think they're bidding on a real one.  Just the way I see it,

In theory, you would be right. But while the customer doesn't know it's fake, the seller usually does. This means they are trying to get rid of it as soon as possible. If the real club might be worth $200, they might sale a fake for $130 'buy it now' just to move it without getting reported to eBay.

That's where the term "too good to be true" comes into affect.

[Pudgelewis]

Llortamaisey, on 29 July 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Pudgelewis, on 29 July 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Llortamaisey, on 29 July 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

There are two things that throw the PGA value guide off:

1. Tour issue clubs. These typically sell for a higher value than their retail counterparts but the Value Guide does not distinguish between the two.

2. Fagazzi Clubs. Fake clubs sell for a lot cheaper than the real ones. There are tons of fakes on eBay. The Value Guide incoroporates the sales price of the fakes into the values of the real clubs, thus bringing the value down drastically.

Because there are many more fake clubs than tour issue clubs, trade-in values and resell values are much lower than they should be on the PGA Value Guide.

Fake clubs wouldn't figure in, IMO, because people buying them don't know they're fake.  There may be a few instances where someone lists a club as a fake [insert club here], but most people buying them don't pay significantly less for them because they think they're bidding on a real one.  Just the way I see it,

In theory, you would be right. But while the customer doesn't know it's fake, the seller usually does. This means they are trying to get rid of it as soon as possible. If the real club might be worth $200, they might sale a fake for $130 'buy it now' just to move it without getting reported to eBay.

That's where the term "too good to be true" comes into affect.

In theory, you would be right, also. However, not all auctions for fake stuff are buy it now listings.  The majority of ones I see aren't, and seller's listing buy it now items well below the going rate also brings more scrutiny to their listing which is what they wouldn't want.

[Llortamaisey]

Pudgelewis, on 29 July 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

In theory, you would be right, also. However, not all auctions for fake stuff are buy it now listings.  The majority of ones I see aren't, and seller's listing buy it now items well below the going rate also brings more scrutiny to their listing which is what they wouldn't want.

There's the difference right there, you are talking about clubs on eBay that have yet to sell while I'm talking about clubs that have sold. My buddy has a golf shop and has at least one fake come in a week. He hears the same story, buy it now on eBay for 30% or more cheaper than everyone else. I'm not talking about theory, I'm referencing reality.

I've worked for a couple of different OEM's and the legal team would always tell us the same thing fake clubs hurt value.

Bottom line is that fakes hurt real club's value and cost OEM's tons of dollars every year. That's a fact. If they didn't, why would the OEM companies be so concerned with prosecuting fakers? What's the point of even patenting the intellectual property?

[dhacker56]

Pudgelewis, on 29 July 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

B-Man, on 29 July 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

It's a bunch of crap. Just look who it is created and managed by? (bottom left of front page) 3balls.com!  If it was operated by an independent third party not directly associated in the sale of used clubs, then I might trust it a little more.

Is it based off 3Balls completed auctions or all auctions?  3Balls items seem to almost always sell on the low end.  Probably because they are notorious for their "representative" photos being off and the fact that they use those photos in the first place rather than actual photos.

3Balls uses real photos... Globalgolf use rep photos.  And I have never gotten a 3balls item in worse shape than it was listed.

[Pudgelewis]

dhacker56, on 29 July 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

Pudgelewis, on 29 July 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

B-Man, on 29 July 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

It's a bunch of crap. Just look who it is created and managed by? (bottom left of front page) 3balls.com!  If it was operated by an independent third party not directly associated in the sale of used clubs, then I might trust it a little more.

Is it based off 3Balls completed auctions or all auctions?  3Balls items seem to almost always sell on the low end.  Probably because they are notorious for their "representative" photos being off and the fact that they use those photos in the first place rather than actual photos.

3Balls uses real photos... Globalgolf use rep photos.  And I have never gotten a 3balls item in worse shape than it was listed.

They use "real" photos that are representative of the club you're bidding on.  They are not ACTUAL photos of the club you're buying.  Check out any of their listings.  Under the picture it says "Representative Photo" and if you click the link it takes you to this page:

http://stores.ebay.c...Our-Photos.html

Where it says:

Way better than “stock photos” (which typically don’t reflect condition at all) our “Representative Photos” have a high level of detail you don’t often find (even in “actual photos”). That’s because we’ve created a state of the art photo studio and lab so we can provide sets of highly detailed photos that are as representative of condition as possible (based on our detailed 7 degree rating scale). The benefit is that, even though it’s not an “actual photo”, we do our very best to depict the overall condition that you can expect to receive.

If you haven't received anything from them that doesn't meet your expectations, you're pretty lucky.  I'm not saying I wouldn't buy from them, but I certainly am not gonna buy anything "Good" or below.  Their representative photos of "Good" items always seem off.  The pictures don't even match their description of clubs in that condition.

Edited by Pudgelewis, 29 July 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[Pudgelewis]

Llortamaisey, on 29 July 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Pudgelewis, on 29 July 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

In theory, you would be right, also. However, not all auctions for fake stuff are buy it now listings.  The majority of ones I see aren't, and seller's listing buy it now items well below the going rate also brings more scrutiny to their listing which is what they wouldn't want.

There's the difference right there, you are talking about clubs on eBay that have yet to sell while I'm talking about clubs that have sold. My buddy has a golf shop and has at least one fake come in a week. He hears the same story, buy it now on eBay for 30% or more cheaper than everyone else. I'm not talking about theory, I'm referencing reality.

I've worked for a couple of different OEM's and the legal team would always tell us the same thing fake clubs hurt value.

Bottom line is that fakes hurt real club's value and cost OEM's tons of dollars every year. That's a fact. If they didn't, why would the OEM companies be so concerned with prosecuting fakers? What's the point of even patenting the intellectual property?

Where in my post did you get ANYTHING about me referring to listings that hadn't sold?  Tons of times someone will post a topic about a fake club (even an obviously fake one) and it'll already have many bids and be near what you'd expect a real one to go for.  Unless there's a new feature on eBay that allows you to place negative bids that make the price go down, I think what I'm saying has some merit.

I'm just saying that, IMO, there isn't a great enough percentage of auctions selling WELL below the going rate to impact the PGA Value Guide greatly.  If you disagree with that, I have no problem with it.  But I don't see where you're coming up with me looking at listings that didn't sell.  I've been around long enough to know there's a BILLION items on eBay that are priced way over what they'd actually sell for and to pay no attention to those when deciding on a reasonable price.

Edited by Pudgelewis, 29 July 2012 - 09:55 PM.

[hebron1427]

Pudgelewis, on 29 July 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

In theory, you would be right, also. However, not all auctions for fake stuff are buy it now listings.  The majority of ones I see aren't, and seller's listing buy it now items well below the going rate also brings more scrutiny to their listing which is what they wouldn't want.

the other thing is that the eventual buyer may not know it's fake because he/she may not be a wrx member, but some people are wrx members and do their research. although the ultimate buyer doesn't know, the people that would drive up the bidding likely do know it's fake and stay away, keeping the auction cost down.