89 replies to this topic

[M910]

1) You don't use a driver
2) You hit a 15*-3w 220yds and 70% of the time it is in the fairway.
3) Your 8i averages 145-155.
4) You play from just under 6100yds.

So all these combined, would you be able to break 80?

I had a conversation with one friend who insists that if a person cannot hit a driver 240+ consistently they will never touch or break 80.

My other friend thinks it doesn't matter if you can't drive or hit a 3w (teeing off with a 2h or 3h). If a person has a really good iron and short game then reaching 80 is possible, factoring in the person averages less than 2 putts per hole.


What say you and have you done it?

Edited by mugen910, 07 July 2012 - 12:14 AM.

[BewareTheGlowball]

I don't think it would be any problem at all. I find that I play much better when I use a 3w or a 2 hybrid off the tee.. I don't do it.. because well I am a driver addict..    If you can consistently hit your irons straight or where your aiming it.. you shouldn't have any problem shooting under 80.. providing being on the green means you can 2 putt.

[TYSHYNE]

I think the first friend is off. If you have good iron play and hit your 3 wood in the fairway 220,70% of the time.... Your gonna have a chance at being in the 70's. Putting and chipping being the most crucial part to get there, but still, entirely doable with those stats.

[variable42]

The course I usually play is 6200 yards and 69.8/123 from the "regular" tees. I'm 100% positive that if you took a scratch golfer and limited their shots to 220 yards and less that they could not only break 80, but 70 on the course. Your first friend is full of it.

[dkbunk]

6100 yards with the stats you mention.... Breaking 80'would be no problem with ant type of decent short game.....I bet you could push the yardage to 6500 easy.   Breaking 80 isn't about How far you hit the ball on shorter courses but just limiting silly mistakes and wasted shots.   7000'yards would be different story

[Tread]

That is plenty of distance to break 80 on a course of that length

[ParOrBetter]

Did it today on a 6300 yard course. Threw my driver out couple weeks ago. Worst score I've had is 81 best is a 70. Those are my yardages pretty accurate. I may catch my 3 wood a hair farther than that every now and then. I'd say I'm hitting somewhere around 70% of fairways. For sure not more. But also I'm taking almost zero penalty strokes around the golf course now.

[V-twin]

LOL I have more issues breaking 80 on a short course than long. The shorter the course the accuracy is magnified fairways tight doglegs hazards in driver range etc , I played a 6000 yard course tee'd off from the blue tee's on the first hole  and hit my driver into the carts parked at the green on the fly to the horror of my playing partners who were teeing off from the whites (i was paired up as a single) , I moved back to the black and had an enjoyable day hitting diffrent clubs off the tee's to find fairways. I did break 80.

[titleist26]

the real question is how good are you with your long irons? if you are not using a driver/3wood off the tee then you need to make up the distance with something else.
I have previously played the best golf of my life using just irons and a 3 wood on par 5's. But it is that endless pursuit of a "well rounded game" that keeps me trying to get everything to work together. So to answer your question you can absolutely shot as low as you want with that setup assuming that you are sharp with your long irons.

[fore]

Basically there's lots of ways to get the job done. Playing to your strengths is the key.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

mugen910, on 07 July 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

1) You don't use a driver
2) You hit a 15*-3w 220yds and 70% of the time it is in the fairway.
3) Your 8i averages 145-155.
4) You play from just under 6100yds.

So all these combined, would you be able to break 80?

I had a conversation with one friend who insists that if a person cannot hit a driver 240+ consistently they will never touch or break 80.

My other friend thinks it doesn't matter if you can't drive or hit a 3w (teeing off with a 2h or 3h). If a person has a really good iron and short game then reaching 80 is possible, factoring in the person averages less than 2 putts per hole.


What say you and have you done it?

Well as it happens, my round on Wednesday "touched" 80 as you say. However, the tees I played were around 5,800 yards rather than 6,100. Then again I hit it a lot shorter than your question specifies.

1) I did not use a driver
2) My 15*-3w went anywhere from 190-205, total carry+roll and I hit 9 of 14 (65%) of the fairways.
3) My 8i averages 120-125.
4) I played from just under 5800yds.

So I drive it 20 yards shorter, hit my irons 20 yards shorter (that's 40 yards per hole) and played a course about 20 yards per hole shorter than your example. From the next set of tees back from there it is 6,200 yards and the best score I've ever shot was 84. With my distances I think it possible but extremely unlikely that I'd ever touch or break 80 from 6,200 yards.

I have played a round on this same course once, from the 6,200 yard tee, where I placed the ball in the middle of the fairway at 200 yards out from the tee on every hole then played it from there. Like hitting a perfect 200-yard tee shot 14 times in the round. I did not quite break 80 but IIRC my "score" in that experiment was somewhere around 81 or 82 for the round. And I do not have a very good short game, although I'm a decent putter.

If I'd placed it 240 yards out from the tee on every fairway I suspect I'd be in the 70's as I'd almost never have to hit longer than a 7-iron approach from there. The person I play with most frequently who usually scores in the 70's might hit one or two drives 240+ yards on a good day. Most of his tee shots average around 225 or so. The most recent person I played with who routinely drives it 240-260 and hit 3/4 of his fairways shot 73 from around 6,700 yards.

Edited by Fourmyle of Ceres, 07 July 2012 - 05:51 AM.

[richard t]

I've seen LOTS of folks break 80 on 6300 yds with 133 slope. Almost all of them CANNOT drive the ball more than 220 yds. Contrary to what is on this site, a lot, about bombing the driver, a driver, 3 wood, 5 wood, whatever, is to put the ball in play. As Sam Snead said once, " the woods are full of big hitters." Accuracy is the key with woods and irons, plus a short game. Add another quote from Ken Venturi- " good putting makes up for a lot of other sins."  Now if you have these and can hit it 300 yds well, good on you, but the average golfer would do better to concentrate on accuracy over distance. I'll take 225 in the fairway over 300, god knows where, any day of the week! Do Luke Donald, Corey Pavin and others come to mind?

[MtlJeff]

yes there's no question. One of my friends from work i play with hits his driver 220ish. I've seen him break 80 on a 6200yd course several times

[Ldubbzie21]

100 yards and in.  If you can score from there is really doesn't make a difference how far you are hitting it.  (I mean, within reason...)  6200 yards could easily bust 80 from the fairway!

[mcfet]

You've never seen the senior player who can't hit over 200yds but shoots par almost every round? I knew an older guy who would just wear you out. Dead center of the fairway every time and the best short game you ever saw. The guy was awesome. I hope I'm that good when I get that age.  So to answer your question, you can be a short but consistent with a solid short game and you can shoot par no problem. Good luck...

[596]

Lets break this down:

6100 yards =

4 par 3's averaging 150 yards each  (his 8 iron) = 600 yards
4 par 5's averaging 480 yards each (220 drive, 150 8 iron, leaves 110 wedge) = 1,920 yards
10 par 4's averaging 358 yards each (220 drive, 140 9 iron) = 3,580 yards

One can easily break 70 with the average 220 drive on a 6100 yard layout.  A 220 yard drive is alot more average then one would believe.

[Johnny]

I play with a number of older gentleman that do that all the time... They use driver but at best they are getting 220 out of it...don't hit 145+ 8 irons and the course is closer to 6300 from the whites where they play.

[MNNikeGuy]

Its not how far  you hit it, but how many times you hit it. My course is 6800 and when im not driving it good im still in the high 70's.

[bigmoneyp]

Thats how far I hit my 5 wood and my 8 iron is my 150 club.  At that length I'd shoot right around 80 if I hit my 5 wood off every tee.  Actually I usually score better when I don't hit my driver much.

[xabia]

Absolutely I have done it numerous times using only my 4 iron off the tee for practice at that distance. Granted the rest of the stuff is a little different but distance wise off the tee it should not be that difficult

[Thrillhouse]

Absolutely you can. A good short game and plenty of greens in reg and that golfer from those tees could shoot under par.

[dennis4190]

I'm 59 yrs old, play tees that are 6700 yds, hit my driver about 220-240, hit 8 iron about 140-150 yds and break 80 all the time. 18 out of my last 20 rounds were under 80 and one was a 69. My current hdcp is 1 so absolutely yes it can be done......In fact, just about all my regular group breaks 80 almost every round and we all hit about the same distances.

Edited by dennis4190, 07 July 2012 - 05:05 PM.

[italianstallion]

There's a couple members at our course who play the mens tees (6200), hit it 200-240 max, and have no issue breaking 80. So yes, yes you can

[mikpga]

mugen910, on 07 July 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

1) You don't use a driver
2) You hit a 15*-3w 220yds and 70% of the time it is in the fairway.
3) Your 8i averages 145-155.
4) You play from just under 6100yds.

So all these combined, would you be able to break 80?

I had a conversation with one friend who insists that if a person cannot hit a driver 240+ consistently they will never touch or break 80.

My other friend thinks it doesn't matter if you can't drive or hit a 3w (teeing off with a 2h or 3h). If a person has a really good iron and short game then reaching 80 is possible, factoring in the person averages less than 2 putts per hole.


What say you and have you done it?

Umm...Nothing suggests that you couldn't break 80...

[+Church]

Have you ever played with a good old guy?  They can't hit the ball over 250 and I've seen plenty of them break 80.  My 3 wood goes further than 220 but I rarely tee off with driver and I break 80...  I don't know why your friend thinks otherwise.

[bobfoster]

I'm not sure about this. I usually don't play courses that short, so maybe ... but the bigger thing is that for some reason I can work my driver with far more accuracy than my woods.

Incidentally ... a friend of mine (who I was recently having the same argument with) sent me this data ... do you agree? Disagree?

The following is a list of approximate distances for each club for an average 15+ handicapper, under normal weather conditions. The lower yardage is for female golfers and the higher yardage is for male golfers.

Driver - 180-240 yards
3-wood - 170-210 yards
5-wood - 140-180 yards
3-iron - 150-180 yards
4-iron - 140-170 yards
5-iron - 130-160 yards
6-iron - 120-150 yards
7-iron - 110-140 yards
8-iron - 100-130 yards
9-iron - 90-120 yards
Pitching wedge - 80-110 yards
Sand Wedge - 60-80 yards
60 degree wedge - 40-60 yards

[JP101]

Well to put it nicely your friend doesn't know what he is talking about. If the player is good with those numbers one could break 70 from that distance.....believe me I've seen it.

[M910]

I guess I just haven't seen it yet. Maybe I need to stop playing with my normal groups and join guys who shoot in the low 80's on a normal day.
The one person who has even come close in my group of regulars drives the ball 250+ but shoots in the high 80's low 90's. I have only ever witness 1 person shooting lower than 80 (3hcp) but his drive off the tee box was 270+ every muthafudgeloving time.

The notion that someone can shoot below 80 without a driver makes me rethink my whole plan to test out different lofts in driver to gain accuracy. Maybe I would be better off just spending my range tokens working on my irons?

[Golfjunki71]

Just look at the LPGA, some of them are short hitters and go under par.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Good players shoot good scores, bad players shoot bad scores. The distance you hit a particular club is only weakly related to being a good or bad player. To hit a ball 270 yards you only need to be able to do one thing. Swing at 105-110mph and deliver the club somewhat squarely onto the ball. To shoot in the 70's you need a number of different skills, none of which involve 100mph+ clubhead speeds (unless you're playing a 7,000 yard course, maybe).

If you can't find some good players to play with regularly, at least find some pretty-good ones who understand the difference between shooting 80 and 90 is more than just how far you can hit a tee shot. Anyone who understands that at least has a chance of getting better at the game. As long as you're burdened with that misconception, it's unlikely you'll make any real scoring improvements.

P.S. Another hint is that not only is scoring not particularly about hitting long tee shots, it's also not particularly something that can be learned on the driving range no matter what kind of shots you work on. A good golf swing can get you into the 80's but the best golf swing in the world won't get you into the 70's with the other parts of the game working.

Edited by Fourmyle of Ceres, 07 July 2012 - 07:26 PM.