328 replies to this topic

[evanleeball]

I believe walking is the way it was meant to be played. However in today's society everything is about speed.

[clinkinfo]

This is a very common policy around these parts, especially on weekends.  Don't know what it's based on exactly, perhaps its nothing more then a revenue generator (requires a cart rental)

[Towelieeee]

Stretch, on 25 May 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Following on from my post above, here's another recent article (PGA Magazine, Feb 2012) about a course management team that successfully took on slow play by addressing their policies rather than just bitching about player behavior.






This s*** really isn't rocket science.

Hey, that's my home course! Kinda funny cause as I was walking up 10 yesterday a guy was walking off from 11-12 cause "its too f***ing slow!" We had no problem playing in 4 hours with me and my friend walking and the other two gentlemen in a cart.

Edited by Towelieeee, 27 June 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[buckeye2782]

Depends, scratch players with carts = fast

High handicaps with carts are usually slower than scratch walkers.  It's easier to find your golf ball in the rough walking.

[teejaywhy]

buckeye2782, on 27 June 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Depends, scratch players with carts = fast

Not true as a general statement.

One of the slowest golfers I know is a scratch golfer.

[buckeye2782]

teejaywhy, on 27 June 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

buckeye2782, on 27 June 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Depends, scratch players with carts = fast

Not true as a general statement.

One of the slowest golfers I know is a scratch golfer.

I wouldn't think that's the carts fault.

[buckeye2782]

In my opinion walking only is the fastest form of golf if managed correctly.  Played Bethpage last summer. (yellow and black).. Walked both rounds, (you have to walk the black course) and because everyone walks, you don't have to wait unless the group in front is struggling.  There the rules really help.  Keep up with the group in front of you, who ever is ready plays, not who is furthest out especially on the greens.  That experience has me generally walking unless playing with a partner who won't walk.

[MelloYello]

teejaywhy, on 27 June 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

buckeye2782, on 27 June 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Depends, scratch players with carts = fast

Not true as a general statement.

One of the slowest golfers I know is a scratch golfer.

Technically, his statement probably holds up well as a 'generality.' In general, most scratch handicaps in a cart have nothing to slow them down. You showed that it's not true on a individualistic basis thanks to your friend. That localized irregularity doesn't effect the large-scale truth (likely) contained in his assumption. In a general sense, it's probably true as most players shooting low-70s or better with a cart will do so relatively quickly by not losing balls, missing fairways/greens excessively, etc.

[teejaywhy]

MelloYello, on 02 July 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

teejaywhy, on 27 June 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

buckeye2782, on 27 June 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Depends, scratch players with carts = fast

Not true as a general statement.

One of the slowest golfers I know is a scratch golfer.

Technically, his statement probably holds up well as a 'generality.' In general, most scratch handicaps in a cart have nothing to slow them down. You showed that it's not true on a individualistic basis thanks to your friend. That localized irregularity doesn't effect the large-scale truth (likely) contained in his assumption. In a general sense, it's probably true as most players shooting low-70s or better with a cart will do so relatively quickly by not losing balls, missing fairways/greens excessively, etc.

My statement speaks to the fact that skill is not an indicator of pace of play.

And the "theoretical" time one could play is not necessarily related to the real-world and what causes 5 hour rounds.  And not exactly related to the TOPIC - "Walking slows the course down."

Walking does not slow the course down.

Slow golfers slow the course down.  They can be walkers or riders. They can be skilled golfers or hackers.  What they have in common is unawareness of pace and a lack of desire or understanding of the need to pick up the pace when falling behind.

[DevilDog]

No one in front of my foursome yesterday morning.  In carts due to the heat and it took 2 hours and 47 minutes for us to play 18.

[bouncing_bear89]

MichiganMike, on 24 May 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

tesuquegolfer, on 24 May 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

It's true GENERALLY speaking.  A cart easily travels at ~12MPH a walker probably averages 3 MPH, or 4 times a slow.  So, if a person hits it down the middle every time and doesn't take an inordinate amount of time selecting clubs, looking for yardage... that may come from riding in a cart, then it could be 3-4 times faster in a cart.   Now some people might say they are more prepared to hit the shot when walking (I used to play better walking as I seems to be more aware of my surroundings) but there is also the time it takes getting from green to the next tee and the fact that few people hit it straight all of the time.  In fact look at the average golfer who might be an 18 hdcp plus and takes 90+ shots.  Anyway, I would say that courses requiring carts should play faster.  That being said, most people I play with that walk are better golfers and manage to get around the course in less than 4 hours. I think a course should allow walking but enforce pace of play somehow!

I completely disagree.  It's true that carts travel faster than walkers, but look how carts travel.  You've got 2 people per cart, so you generally have 2 people going to a ball and waiting on 1 to hit.  Then you have both players going to the other ball.  This then continues the entire round for your 90 shots each.

Conversely, when walking, each player goes directly to his/her own ball.  When the first player hits, the second is already ready to go.  And while player 2 is playing, player 1 is already on his/her way to play shot 2.

Time is not all about the speed of the transportation mode, it's more about the time wasted in between.  Walking is far more efficient as there is much less back & forth and idle time.

The only case you can make for carts being generally faster is when there is a significant distance between holes.

Carts are amazing if you only have one person in them.  When you have two it is definitely slow.  I played 18 in 2 hours flat the other day when it was just me and another guy in separate cart.

[marmooskapaul]

bouncing_bear89, on 15 July 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

MichiganMike, on 24 May 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

tesuquegolfer, on 24 May 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

It's true GENERALLY speaking.  A cart easily travels at ~12MPH a walker probably averages 3 MPH, or 4 times a slow.  So, if a person hits it down the middle every time and doesn't take an inordinate amount of time selecting clubs, looking for yardage... that may come from riding in a cart, then it could be 3-4 times faster in a cart.   Now some people might say they are more prepared to hit the shot when walking (I used to play better walking as I seems to be more aware of my surroundings) but there is also the time it takes getting from green to the next tee and the fact that few people hit it straight all of the time.  In fact look at the average golfer who might be an 18 hdcp plus and takes 90+ shots.  Anyway, I would say that courses requiring carts should play faster.  That being said, most people I play with that walk are better golfers and manage to get around the course in less than 4 hours. I think a course should allow walking but enforce pace of play somehow!

I completely disagree.  It's true that carts travel faster than walkers, but look how carts travel.  You've got 2 people per cart, so you generally have 2 people going to a ball and waiting on 1 to hit.  Then you have both players going to the other ball.  This then continues the entire round for your 90 shots each.

Conversely, when walking, each player goes directly to his/her own ball.  When the first player hits, the second is already ready to go.  And while player 2 is playing, player 1 is already on his/her way to play shot 2.

Time is not all about the speed of the transportation mode, it's more about the time wasted in between.  Walking is far more efficient as there is much less back & forth and idle time.

The only case you can make for carts being generally faster is when there is a significant distance between holes.

Carts are amazing if you only have one person in them.  When you have two it is definitely slow.  I played 18 in 2 hours flat the other day when it was just me and another guy in separate cart.

I may be in the minority here, but two hours for 18 holes is too fast. lol. I wouldn't get off the couch and bother to golf if it only took 2 hours or less. Whats the big deal with 3 1/2 to 4 hour rounds?? Do you realy have somewhere else you would rather be?? Then don't golf! Go do the other thing. lol. If we get done with 1 1/2 hours of daylight left ....we play more golf.lol 27 holes is no big deal. Yes I have kids and still have plenty of time for them..
Paul

[goobers80]

If you are playing well or just a better player the rounds are going to be faster without a group alongside. I have played 18 on a private course that discourages traffic in under 2 hours just playing one ball. If you want to hit extra balls it still will not take much longer. I like a cart to hit a drive then go place a ball in a bad spot to try to make par from as practice.

I think you are assuming people are playing speed golf if they are done faster?  I like rounds that take less time. I do not feel as tired from the sun and have more energy for practicing after. So, I prefer a cart in most practice rounds.

[Pepperturbo]

teejaywhy, on 27 June 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

buckeye2782, on 27 June 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Depends, scratch players with carts = fast

Not true as a general statement.

One of the slowest golfers I know is a scratch golfer.

As a general statement, it is true from my experience.  Played against many low index / scratch and plus golfers - we typically finished in 4hrs 10 max, sometimes less then 4hrs, whether walking or in carts.  Slowest golfers are high index golfers, even in carts.  We walked on Sunday - guys playing with us were in a cart.  We waited for them darn near every hole.  I agree with @Buckeye2782

Edited by Pepperturbo, 16 July 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[golfpros1]

walking absolutely slows play on an empty course, but on a full tee time sheet, not a chance.  And God help you if it's cart path only, you might as well bring an iPad or something.

[TML]

I think the issue is more about players not understanding what ready golf is.  My playing partners, as a 4'some, can play 18 in 3hrs.  We are not rushing, we are just ready to hit our shots when the last player's ball hits the ground.  We break balls, we talk trash in between, but when the last person hits their putt in, the group walks to the next tee box.

This is not ready golf.....
- 2 carts with 4 players huddled around 1 player's golf ball.
- Golf Carts driving back and forth between players endlessly.
- Guys putting out 2 footers.
- Not taking enough clubs with you to cover what a half wit would know to take.
- being ready to hit, even if you're not furthest away from the green.  When I'm away and I'm not ready to hit, I tell my partners to fire away if you're ready

Golf is so more enjoyable played at 4hrs or less.  You actually have time to sip margaritas by the pool before it's lunch time.

[golfpros1]

COST kills the game of golf.  it's not COR, grooves, putters/putting styles, etc.  It's COST, and by cost I mean...

+ the cost to play golf because it takes way too long and time is money
+ and literally the cost to play because these huge golf courses require too much to build and mantain

Mandatory carts, that raise fees $15-$25 per person... hurts amateurs.  I'd rather pay a caddy $20 all day every day then spend that on a cart (unless it's 100 degrees out then I kneel to my mechanical master).

[Jimdangles]

I think carts speed things up but if you have 4 bad players I would almost suggest walking. That way when one guy misses left and one misses right they can walk seperately to search for their balls.

[mshills]

golfpros1, on 16 July 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

COST kills the game of golf.  it's not COR, grooves, putters/putting styles, etc.  It's COST, and by cost I mean...

+ the cost to play golf because it takes way too long and time is money
+ and literally the cost to play because these huge golf courses require too much to build and mantain

Mandatory carts, that raise fees $15-$25 per person... hurts amateurs.  I'd rather pay a caddy $20 all day every day then spend that on a cart (unless it's 100 degrees out then I kneel to my mechanical master).

LOL -- where are you going to find a caddy for $20??

[ChipDriver]

mshills, on 17 July 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

golfpros1, on 16 July 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

COST kills the game of golf.  it's not COR, grooves, putters/putting styles, etc.  It's COST, and by cost I mean...

+ the cost to play golf because it takes way too long and time is money
+ and literally the cost to play because these huge golf courses require too much to build and mantain

Mandatory carts, that raise fees $15-$25 per person... hurts amateurs.  I'd rather pay a caddy $20 all day every day then spend that on a cart (unless it's 100 degrees out then I kneel to my mechanical master).

LOL -- where are you going to find a caddy for $20??

Your laughter actually helps to make his point.

Golf is expensive in many places - particularly with a cart.   A caddie is even more expensive.

[Evolved]

clinkinfo, on 26 June 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

This is a very common policy around these parts, especially on weekends.  Don't know what it's based on exactly, perhaps its nothing more then a revenue generator (requires a cart rental)

It is a revenue thing.

As for the topic at hand. I use a cart and play 18 in 2 hours, you can't do that walking.

Edited by Evolved, 17 July 2012 - 09:34 AM.

[PaddyK]

There is nothing better than walking up our 8th fairway and taking in the fresh air and the rolling Beds/Herts country side.

It just isn't the same in a buggy.

[oneunderbogey]

Evolved, on 17 July 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

clinkinfo, on 26 June 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

This is a very common policy around these parts, especially on weekends.  Don't know what it's based on exactly, perhaps its nothing more then a revenue generator (requires a cart rental)

It is a revenue thing.

As for the topic at hand. I use a cart and play 18 in 2 hours, you can't do that walking.

Yeah you can.

[teejaywhy]

Evolved, on 17 July 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

As for the topic at hand. I use a cart and play 18 in 2 hours, you can't do that walking.

It may be true, but that doesn't speak to the topic that walking slows the course down.

[CoachBerger]

Plain and simple - it is money!  I played on Saturday at a private course and it was cart path only because of the rain. A couple of buddies and I walk with push cart so it was no big deal but for the normal riders it was brutal. These guys turned a nice Saturday morning 4 hour round into 5 plus. My point is simply that there is a place for carts but also a place for walkers. When I looked for a club for my family to belong to there were to things that I was looking for 1. A place my daughter and wife could play and enjoy 2. A place that allowed walkers/push carts. It doesn't matter if you carry clubs, push cart clubs or ride a cart - a SLOW GOLFER is a SLOW GOLFER!!!

Edited by CoachBerger, 17 July 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[CoachBerger]

That simply is not true - we play less than 4 hours walking 7,000 yards plus. People no longer feel the need to play ready golf.

teejaywhy, on 17 July 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Evolved, on 17 July 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

As for the topic at hand. I use a cart and play 18 in 2 hours, you can't do that walking.

It may be true, but that doesn't speak to the topic that walking slows the course down.

[larrybud]

You guys really need to read the article that was posted a while back:
http://www.golfcluba...interviewyates/

Some of the interesting points that need to be considered anytime you read these "you should play golf in X amount of time" threads:

-Average length of of course in the UK and US are essentially the same, but  the total green to tee distances of a UK course were 788 yards while the average green to tee distances for a U.S. course totalled 3,061 yards.  This adds 14 minutes to the pace in the US, or a whopping *32* minutes more if cart path only!

-As both an aside and a bit of trivia, when carts and walkers are mixed in a foursome, the walkers will usually beat the cart riders to the next tee when the green to tee distance is 100 yards or less. And, the cart riders will beat the walkers to the next tee when the green to tee distance is over 100 yards.

-Long grasses protecting the inside of a dogleg should also be avoided, as players will gamble on cutting the corner and most will lose the bet, and their ball.

-When the tees were moved forward, I’ve seen situations where the average players were consistently driving through doglegs and into heavy underbrush or boundary streams, actually making play slower. And on the flip side, moving the tees up can also make the hole play too fast. When that happens, players will end up waiting on the next tee complaining about the “slow group” ahead of them.

-In the UK there are 465 player for each course, in the US 1577, hence overcrowding contributing to slower play.  Also "Many courses in the UK don’t even bother with tee times, and with their long summer days, they can hole their last putt 10:00 pm. Under these conditions they can play as singles, two-balls and finish a round in 3:30 or less at almost any time they want."

[mshills]

^^^^  Great post.  ^^^^

Slow golf is slow golf, but what constitutes "slow" is very different from course to course, and there's nothing more foolish than a one-size-fits-all pace of play.

Except in very rare cases, walking does not slow the course down.  Pace of play is generally quite independent of whether the players are walking or riding.  OF COURSE on an empty golf course that is NOT cart path only, a single in a cart will be faster than a single on foot, but that proves nothing as it is not typical conditions of play.

On a Saturday at 9AM, with tee times 15 minutes apart, a foursome of walkers will play at an identical pace as a foursome of riders.

[Pepperturbo]

"If" the field is filled with reasonably good golfers in carts, and then a group of walkers which are casual about their game, they will slow the field behind them, even if they are reasonably good golfers.  Walkers that looks for balls, play bogie or double bogie golf, and think they are putting for the US Open, and walk at old slow pace will easily slow the field.

Carts by design are faster then walkers.  Where the dynamics change is when walkers walk fast, anticipate before they get to the ball, and reasonably fast over the ball (my style) then walkers are just as fast as those in carts.

Edited by Pepperturbo, 17 July 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[ptjn1201]

Evolved, on 17 July 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

clinkinfo, on 26 June 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

This is a very common policy around these parts, especially on weekends.  Don't know what it's based on exactly, perhaps its nothing more then a revenue generator (requires a cart rental)

It is a revenue thing.

As for the topic at hand. I use a cart and play 18 in 2 hours, you can't do that walking.

Not true.  Playing 18 holes walking in two hours is easy as a single on a course without long distances between greens and tees