71 replies to this topic

[seak05]

The swing put a lot of pressure on Tiger's knee, he also is driven to continuously try to improve, so no he's not a maintain fan.

But also remember this is a tournament he won, and therefore played well. If you watched a tournament in 2002 he wasn't hitting the ball well at, you'd have seen practice swings etc.

Oh and I am amused imagining the twitter insanity that would have occurred if Tiger missed those two putts on 1 & 2 today.

[SHIVAN]

Hank?

spitfisher, on 23 May 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

SHIVAN, on 23 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

johnnypro, on 23 May 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

WHY would he want to change that??

Apparently, that swing will break your front leg down, and his front leg couldn't hold together any longer.

Horse hockey, his injury to his knee was a result of over training, speciifcally running, agravated further with weighs.

And IMO I wouldn't rule out HGH, roids and blood doping.

[4thand11]

It's easy to look at the old footage and wonder what happened... but the fact is simply he was playing with 100% confidence then, unlike now.

It is true his swing looked more fluid then, but the Foley swing by nature doesn't look as fluid... that doesn't mean it can't be effective.  Tiger has had stretches this year where he's been hitting the ball great, and I think that is why he is sticking with it.

Also the competition has caught up to Tiger in terms of distance, the tour is so deep right now with talented golfers it's like a crapshoot every week who is going to win.

But if you step back from the hysteria, Tiger is having a solid year so far.  8 events, 7 cuts made.  One win, one 2nd, four top 25s, and $1.8million in prize money.  Pretty good for a guy in the midst of a swing overhaul that everyone seems to think is a disaster.

[xabia]

stoverny, on 24 May 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

It's easy to look at the old footage and wonder what happened... but the fact is simply he was playing with 100% confidence then, unlike now.

It is true his swing looked more fluid then, but the Foley swing by nature doesn't look as fluid... that doesn't mean it can't be effective.  Tiger has had stretches this year where he's been hitting the ball great, and I think that is why he is sticking with it.

Also the competition has caught up to Tiger in terms of distance, the tour is so deep right now with talented golfers it's like a crapshoot every week who is going to win.

But if you step back from the hysteria, Tiger is having a solid year so far.  8 events, 7 cuts made.  One win, one 2nd, four top 25s, and $1.8million in prize money.  Pretty good for a guy in the midst of a swing overhaul that everyone seems to think is a disaster.

How dare anyone in this thread speak of reason and patience when it comes to Tiger! Blasphemy..

Seriously though, its the short iron and wedge distance control that is killing him as pointed out above, once he dials that in watch out

[johnnypro]

stoverny, on 24 May 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

It's easy to look at the old footage and wonder what happened... but the fact is simply he was playing with 100% confidence then, unlike now.

It is true his swing looked more fluid then, but the Foley swing by nature doesn't look as fluid... that doesn't mean it can't be effective.  Tiger has had stretches this year where he's been hitting the ball great, and I think that is why he is sticking with it.

Also the competition has caught up to Tiger in terms of distance, the tour is so deep right now with talented golfers it's like a crapshoot every week who is going to win.

But if you step back from the hysteria, Tiger is having a solid year so far.  8 events, 7 cuts made.  One win, one 2nd, four top 25s, and $1.8million in prize money.  Pretty good for a guy in the midst of a swing overhaul that everyone seems to think is a disaster.

I'm not buying it. He has looked terrible lately. Lost. Whether it's Foley or his confidence level or something else, bottom line is he's a shadow of the guy I was watching Tuesday night.

[4thand11]

johnnypro, on 24 May 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

stoverny, on 24 May 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

It's easy to look at the old footage and wonder what happened... but the fact is simply he was playing with 100% confidence then, unlike now.

It is true his swing looked more fluid then, but the Foley swing by nature doesn't look as fluid... that doesn't mean it can't be effective.  Tiger has had stretches this year where he's been hitting the ball great, and I think that is why he is sticking with it.

Also the competition has caught up to Tiger in terms of distance, the tour is so deep right now with talented golfers it's like a crapshoot every week who is going to win.

But if you step back from the hysteria, Tiger is having a solid year so far.  8 events, 7 cuts made.  One win, one 2nd, four top 25s, and $1.8million in prize money.  Pretty good for a guy in the midst of a swing overhaul that everyone seems to think is a disaster.

I'm not buying it. He has looked terrible lately. Lost. Whether it's Foley or his confidence level or something else, bottom line is he's a shadow of the guy I was watching Tuesday night.

I think he looks lost mainly because of his own reactions, and the media scrutiny that accompanies every one of his shots... I get the impression that he is striping it on the range and is getting more and more impatient that he can't replicate it in tournaments.

It is true his last 3 tournaments have been sub-par (T40 Masters, missed cut at Wells Fargo, T40 at Players) - but in his 3 tournaments prior to that he was 2nd, 4th, and 1st.  Most people had thought he had turned the corner.

He certainly didn't look lost while winning at Bay Hill, and it was the same Foley swing he's using now...  right now his main problem is his short game and putting.  The new swing may not look as easy and natural but he's having good results with it for the most part.

[blades1960]

I was shocked:

how short most drives for all the leaders were back then. Avg 277.

how skinny they were pre HGH

how confident Tiger looked and how Unconfident Phil looked.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

How skinny? Who now is big exactly? Tiger is the only one and he could have easily gotten to his size without hgh, it's not like he's that big. The distance is all technology.

[johnnypro]

blades1960, on 24 May 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

I was shocked:

how short most drives for all the leaders were back then. Avg 277.

how skinny they were pre HGH

how confident Tiger looked and how Unconfident Phil looked.

TW still pumped it out 314 on #13 with a steel shaft.
And on #4 he put it where no one else did ever....10 yds short of the cross-bunker.

[blades1960]

Sorry how skinny tiger was. No way his butt blew up that big without some kind of enhancement. And yes technology was a big factor in increased distance but shocking how short they were comparatively. However Tiger seemed more accurate at 277 - 290 avg.

Edited by blades1960, 24 May 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[blades1960]

johnnypro, on 24 May 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

blades1960, on 24 May 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

I was shocked:

how short most drives for all the leaders were back then. Avg 277.

how skinny they were pre HGH

how confident Tiger looked and how Unconfident Phil looked.

TW still pumped it out 314 on #13 with a steel shaft.
And on #4 he put it where no one else did ever....10 yds short of the cross-bunker.

Downwind downhill. Today that 314 would be 360

[gators78]

I'm amazed watching these old tournaments how BAD everyone else is.

Tiger created the blueprint, everyone else has picked it up.

[tembolo1284]

He was def the man to beat in those days.

[Anser]

Pretty simple - that was 10 years ago

Lots of miles on that body and brain

[Skaffa77]

Watching that tournament replay really amazed me.   All of TW's shots seemed spot on...his swing was so well grooved.

[seak05]

HGH DOES NOT INCREASE MUSCLE MASS, in any scientific study ever. Dear God people please employ some use of facts

[spitfisher]

Who said it did on this thread?????

HGH, endurance and recovery.

[johnnypro]

blades1960, on 24 May 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

johnnypro, on 24 May 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

blades1960, on 24 May 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

I was shocked:

how short most drives for all the leaders were back then. Avg 277.

how skinny they were pre HGH

how confident Tiger looked and how Unconfident Phil looked.

TW still pumped it out 314 on #13 with a steel shaft.
And on #4 he put it where no one else did ever....10 yds short of the cross-bunker.

Downwind downhill. Today that 314 would be 360

BULL. I've played the Black more than 350 times. Landing area on 13 is NOT downhill nor is the tee at all elevated. And Sunday was NOT downwind.

[bscinstnct]

Tiger kicked the crap out of everybody

He "shook up the World!!!"

Jack was in awe

Nuff said

[Skaffa77]

spitfisher, on 24 May 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

Who said it did on this thread?????

HGH, endurance and recovery.

Wasn't hard to find.

blades1960, on 24 May 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

I was shocked:

how short most drives for all the leaders were back then. Avg 277.

how skinny they were pre HGH

how confident Tiger looked and how Unconfident Phil looked.

TLUBulldogGolf, on 24 May 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

How skinny? Who now is big exactly? Tiger is the only one and he could have easily gotten to his size without hgh, it's not like he's that big. The distance is all technology.

[swbyps]

Yea, the Tiger was pretty good back in those days. What I think was the most amazing thing about him was the way he would always hit a great shot or make a putt whenever he really needed to. And even more amazing than that....everybody knew he was going to do it. I remember watching with this anxious type feeling just knowing in the big moments he was about to do something. Its like MJ was. If he needed to hit a 3, he would hit a 3. If they needed a steal, he gets a steal. If he needed to score 50, he scored 50. Tiger was like that. If he needed eagle on 17 to tie...he would hit his second shot from 230 to about 15ft then draino. Then it was over. He knew it...you knew it...and the other players knew it.

Now...I do have to admit hes tough to watch sometimes.

[borker]

The argument that the field is much better now compared to when Tiger was dominating (2000-2002, 2005-2009) is so off base I am tired of hearing about it.

WHERE?!?

Where is this much better competition? Because I am not seeing it. Any givin event it just seems like anyone who gets hot with putter now will win. We have had how many World #1's now since Tiger lost it? The top ten changes drastically it seems every month. Give me a break. I'd take 2001 version of VJ, Els, Phil, Duval, Young Sergio, etc over the spoiled slackers running around on tour today.  Spoiled by equipment technology, longer/straighter balls, mega conglomerate sponsers that still pay people like Anthony Kim to barely even care enough to be out there. I can barely even watch the tour today as mostly none of them really look happy or want to even be out there! They mope around with bad demeanor, barely smile and barely can scratch their bill cap as a thanks for the applauding.

But besides all that, the scoring average has NOT changed for the tour as a whole since 2001. The top players after #1 in scoring average so far this year vs 2001 is NO DIFFERENT. Just as it was no different in 2008. They all still average in the 69's and the next ten are in low 70 range. If competition was so much better, the scoring average would reflect it. It DOESN'T.  The tour average is statistically the same for the top-20 golfers now as it was in 2001. EXCEPT for one thing...

TIGER WOODS. His scoring average in 2000 was the lowest in pga tour history! Subtracting Tigers transition from Butch to Hank years of 2003&2004, From 1999-2009 he led the PGA in scoring average. Many times it was a full stroke or MORE ahead of 2nd place! That is a HUGE (can't be understated) advantage over the rest of field.

The competition isn't better. Tiger is WORSE. Plain and simple. We can debate all day as to why (although those short game stats posted earlier are a good start), but he just has regressed. Lets stop saying todays tour is so much better. It is more correct to say Tiger is worse and now lumped in with rest of top-20 in scoring average. Could get hot and win, or go cold and miss cuts.

I watched that whole 2002 US Open repeat. A few things I found interesting. One was his confidence. That had to be worth something just in itself. That is seemingly now gone or only has fleeting moments. Second is, and if you've read The Big Miss you'll relate, you can see what Hank was saying is actually evident. Tiger was talking alot and taking advice from O'Meara, who was relaying what him {mark} and Hank were working on. Even though Tiger would not officially be with Hank for another year or so, Tiger started to get laid off, flatter and parallel planes compared to just a short year earlier in 2001. I watched 2000 Players a few weeks earlier and Tiger was much more pointed to the target at the top.

I just can't believe how fluid and natural looking for him his swing was back then. Even Hanks version still didn't look that bad as many suggest. But this Foley guy has got him so obsessed with hitting his positions and looking "ideal" and zero'ing out his trackman numbers he looks constrained, unsure and lost. I wonder if Tiger even knew what his swing plane WAS in 1999-2001.

[SurfDuffer]

The difference was mental youth.  He did not have negative thoughts back then.  Now he's thinking about it too much.  His swing is fine.  His swing is good enough to go out and tear it up on tour.  The biggest thing is his short game and putting.

[ron lefthanded holmes]

xabia, on 24 May 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

once he dials that in watch out

heard this far to often

[mogc60]

Tiger entered every tournament he ever played in KNOWING he would win.  No ifs, ands or buts about it.  He knew he would win and if he didn't, I honestly think he could blow it off as a fluke.  After the scandal, he is TRYING to win, and that is where his edge has been lost.  He is still a great player but I think he has lost that inner belief that made him the greatest winner I've ever seen. There are alot of players every week on Tour that are TRYING to win and now Tiger is just one of those guys.  Look at Dufner right now.  I honestly think that first win gave him the confidence to just play and quit trying so hard.  Tiger always had that belief during those glory years.

[seak05]

Oh honestly what balderdash. We have turned "old Tiger" into a mythic figure that could do no wrong in his golf game and "new Tiger" into a bumbling idiot. Even in 2002 Tiger screwed up hit bad drives and poor putts, and he didn't win every event. Tiger also looked plenty confident a couple months ago at Bay Hill or when shooting that 62 at Honda. When you're shooting a good score, or having a good tournament you look good. When you're shooting a bad score or having a bad tournament you don't. That's true of 2002 Tiger and 2012 Tiger, and every golfer in history.

[Golfnutgalen]

Tiger won about a quarter of the events he entered back then (17/41, 41% from 99-00), after that he struggled with that pesky Haney swing and only won a third of the events he entered (19/37, 51% from 06-08). We all have a mutilated sense of history.

Edited by Golfnutgalen, 26 May 2012 - 02:00 PM.

[JaxBeachNole]

He'll win more majors. Maybe not four or five, but he still has amazing talent. That part has never gone away.

I agree with those that say he is a different player now, obviously different levels of success, but he was in constant search of perfection from the beginning. He will have another up cycle at some point with his Foley swing and then will switch teachers again.

It'll be fun to watch.

[mogc60]

I didn't say he won every event.  I think ( i know, my opinion) that from the time he was little he played every event knowing he would win.  In his mind.  He played with a level of patience and confidence that I don't see in him today.  I am not a fan of Tiger, but I don't discount how great his run truly was.

[bscinstnct]

seak05, on 26 May 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Oh honestly what balderdash. We have turned "old Tiger" into a mythic figure that could do no wrong in his golf game and "new Tiger" into a bumbling idiot. Even in 2002 Tiger screwed up hit bad drives and poor putts, and he didn't win every event. Tiger also looked plenty confident a couple months ago at Bay Hill or when shooting that 62 at Honda. When you're shooting a good score, or having a good tournament you look good. When you're shooting a bad score or having a bad tournament you don't. That's true of 2002 Tiger and 2012 Tiger, and every golfer in history.

The old Tiger was a mythic figure.

Even up to the 2008 Open. The eagle putts and chip in are legend.

Fans and haters alike were all like,

"Whaaat the &*$#. That is just not humanly possible"

The new Tiger, for the time being, is a bit of a bumbling idiot.