23 replies to this topic

[persimmonpal]

 tn.jpg   3K   21 downloadsAbout 4 years ago, I picked up a lot of drivers in an auction on eBay.. One of them turned out to be a black Toney Penna Oil Hardened 693.
I have seen hundreds and hundreds of MacGregor drivers, and I never once thought it was a fake... It looked so good.
Sadly, the heel section of the face had really bad dry rot... After much contemplation I decided to remove the damaged wood and rebuild the face with some persimmon splices. I had to do the toe section as well, even though it was in decent shape, so it would match the heel splice I installed.. I tried to cut the wood and arrange it in a way that the grain would be "correct".
I would not have done this had the driver been stained originally, but the original finish was black, so I knew I could paint over the epoxy veins between the splices.
The original TT Dynamic Shaft was beat up; pitted. I removed a mint, identical shaft from a mint M43 so that it would look as nice as the head.
I finished it in a satin lacquer, and whipped it with original whipping I pulled off the M43 wood I got the shaft from.
Enjoy the pics!
I unfortunately lost all of the "Before" pictures, but I was able to find a few pics of the face rebuild in an email I sent to a few friends.
Out of all of the drivers I have EVER let go and wanted back, this is at the top of the list.. Doubt I will ever see another.
I would love to here XgolfX weigh in on this one..
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Edited by persimmonpal, 17 May 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[persimmonpal]

Sorry about the small pictures! If anyone wants to send me their email, I will forward the original email that has larger pics attached.
Sorry!

[freddiec]

I remember that one PP. I think you brought that over and showed it to me. Head was large and it sat really nice with perfect grain. Looked legit to me, perfect deep TP sig on the top. Maybe a 1 off.

[xgolfx]

persimmonpal, on 17 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Sorry about the small pictures! If anyone wants to send me their email, I will forward the original email that has larger pics attached.
Sorry!

not enough to convince me that this was a toney penna  693


CHARLEY PENNA

[persimmonpal]

xgolfx, on 17 May 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

persimmonpal, on 17 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Sorry about the small pictures! If anyone wants to send me their email, I will forward the original email that has larger pics attached.
Sorry!

not enough to convince me that this was a toney penna  693


CHARLEY PENNA

Hey Charley..
Send me your email and I will send you some larger pics.. These came out pretty small for some reasone. The pics on the original email are large files and you can see quite a bit more.
Take care,
John

[xgolfx]

persimmonpal, on 17 May 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

xgolfx, on 17 May 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

persimmonpal, on 17 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Sorry about the small pictures! If anyone wants to send me their email, I will forward the original email that has larger pics attached.
Sorry!

not enough to convince me that this was a toney penna  693


CHARLEY PENNA

Hey Charley..
Send me your email and I will send you some larger pics.. These came out pretty small for some reasone. The pics on the original email are large files and you can see quite a bit more.
Take care,
John

XGOLFX@AOL.COM

[persimmonpal]

freddiec, on 17 May 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

I remember that one PP. I think you brought that over and showed it to me. Head was large and it sat really nice with perfect grain. Looked legit to me, perfect deep TP sig on the top. Maybe a 1 off.

Charley isn't so sure.. says its not a model 69 head. I certainly remember it as that. Who knows.
One thing is for sure with MacGregors, you can find all sorts of "incorrect" stamps. Maybe a factory worker grabbed the wrong stamp, or a customer requested a 693 stamp with Toney Penna.. Who knows, All I remember is that the club was totally original, and that I wish I still had it!

[freddiec]

Whatever it was PP it was awesome.  It must have had black original paint, the Toney Penna stamp looked super legit to me, but who knows. The head was very deep all the way around, I thought it was different than the other 693s I've seen, but then again, never seen one with Toney Penna.   Lots of old clubs out there are a mystery, which is part of the reason we like to collect.  I agree, that was one you should have kept, you refaced it and refinished it like a champ.

Edited by freddiec, 18 May 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

John,
I agree that it was probably the real deal.  I remember Charley saying on earlier strings that he thought  a 693 with someone other than Tommy Armour stamped on the crown was  probably fake. He has a wealth of knowledge and I usually agree with him.  But I think there more "unique" MacGregors out there than you can imagine. One that would probably blow his mind is  a driver I saw years ago...693 CHARLEY Penna. IMO, it was definitely original.  Never refinished, complete with neck numbers. The shaft was broken and it had been stuffed in the bottom of an old bag of M-85 irons and some other set of off-brand woods.

I just recently picked up a 693 Ben Hogan. But the jury is still out. the head doesn't look quite big enough.  Looks more like a model 65 or model 40.  I will try to post some pics; but it could be a while. I have some broken bones in my foot and ankle. now I m stuck on crutches.
Bob

[persimmonpal]

Hi Bob, One thing you can be sure of.. there are lots of oddball clubs out there. These were done by people not machines, and as such there are going to be variations..
I once had a 945 Head 3 wood head with Sweepback soleplate, Stamped with ONLY the Old EYE-O-Matic toe stamp, and with the Winged MT on the crown. Tell me someone didnt make that up for himself.
NOONE, not even Toney Penna himself, knew every club that went out of that factory. That makes it interesting, IMHO  If someone claims they know everything, they are vain or lying...

Edited by persimmonpal, 18 May 2012 - 06:46 PM.

[freddiec]

persimmonpal, on 18 May 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Hi Bob, One thing you can be sure of.. there are lots of oddball clubs out there. These were done by people not machines, and as such there are going to be variations..
I once had a 945 Head 3 wood head with Sweep plate, Stamped with ONLY the Old EYE-O-Matic stamp, and with the Winged T on the crown. Tell me someone didnt make that up for himself.
NOONE, not even Toney Penna himself, knew every club that went out of that factory. That makes it interesting, IMHO

Totally agree.

[persimmonpal]

Hey Freddie,
I KNEW you would agree, you open-minded bugger you!
ROFL...

[teevons]

So Gimpy, don't tell me you did not acquire that Charlie Penna driver in the bag???? Whats the rest of the story??

Ironmaster Oddities, on 18 May 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

John,
I agree that it was probably the real deal.  I remember Charley saying on earlier strings that he thought  a 693 with someone other than Tommy Armour stamped on the crown was  probably fake. He has a wealth of knowledge and I usually agree with him.  But I think there more "unique" MacGregors out there than you can imagine. One that would probably blow his mind is  a driver I saw years ago...693 CHARLEY Penna. IMO, it was definitely original.  Never refinished, complete with neck numbers. The shaft was broken and it had been stuffed in the bottom of an old bag of M-85 irons and some other set of off-brand woods.

I just recently picked up a 693 Ben Hogan. But the jury is still out. the head doesn't look quite big enough.  Looks more like a model 65 or model 40.  I will try to post some pics; but it could be a while. I have some broken bones in my foot and ankle. now I m stuck on crutches.
Bob

[xgolfx]

teevons, on 18 May 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

So Gimpy, don't tell me you did not acquire that Charlie Penna driver in the bag???? Whats the rest of the story??

Ironmaster Oddities, on 18 May 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

John,
I agree that it was probably the real deal.  I remember Charley saying on earlier strings that he thought  a 693 with someone other than Tommy Armour stamped on the crown was  probably fake. He has a wealth of knowledge and I usually agree with him.  But I think there more "unique" MacGregors out there than you can imagine. One that would probably blow his mind is  a driver I saw years ago...693 CHARLEY Penna. IMO, it was definitely original.  Never refinished, complete with neck numbers. The shaft was broken and it had been stuffed in the bottom of an old bag of M-85 irons and some other set of off-brand woods.






You misquote me . I never said 693  other than Armour was a fake. I did say a Toney Penna 693 was a fake. There are many 693 drivers stamped ChuckTanis, Jerry Glyn, Claude Harmon!Ben Hogan Stan Kertes, Bruce Herd, Tom LoPresti, and more. The reason there are no Toney Penna 693 clubs. Is that Toney did not like the face progression for his personal clubs. He liked smaller deeper  fairway woods

The specs for my dad's personal clubs
Model 69 driver and model 40 fairway  woods
  CHARLEY PENNA

I just recently picked up a 693 Ben Hogan. But the jury is still out. the head doesn't look quite big enough.  Looks more like a model 65 or model 40.  I will try to post some pics; but it could be a while. I have some broken bones in my foot and ankle. now I m stuck on crutches.
Bob

Edited by xgolfx, 18 May 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[persimmonpal]

I can absolutely guarantee that the Penna driver I had with the 693 toe stamp was absolutely, 100%, in every way completely original. Absolutely no doubt in my mind.
Does it mean it is a Penna 693? Well that is open to debate.. What it DOES mean is that it is an original MacGregor driver, with original Penna stamp on top, and original "Oil Hardened 693" stamp on toe. Thats good enough for me...
At the end of the day, who really cares? We love these clubs just because we love them.. its as simple as that (at least in my case)

[teevons]

As far as head size goes I have had many different  drivers, M85s, 945;s 693;s,M43's all original never refinished condition that the head shape and size do not match each other as far as the model, in either face depth or height..
Since the people who turned out the heads were humans, they make mistakes. Its not like a cast Callaway or Cobra coming from Japan that 10000 were made in a run.
I have a Penna 693 also that looks original but the head size is not as large as a Armour 693. like PerPal says, its still rocks!!
It might make it more desirable for the person looking for the perfect head but to most people just having one that matches in most ways is acceptable in my book.
Of course in the 70's 80's because of the demand there were some  not original made for the Japanese market but finding one in a bin with a broken shaft should pass the fake test I would hope??

[xgolfx]

teevons, on 19 May 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

As far as head size goes I have had many different  drivers, M85s, 945;s 693;s,M43's all original never refinished condition that the head shape and size do not match each other as far as the model, in either face depth or height..
Since the people who turned out the heads were humans, they make mistakes. Its not like a cast Callaway or Cobra coming from Japan that 10000 were made in a run.
I have a Penna 693 also that looks original but the head size is not as large as a Armour 693. like PerPal says, its still rocks!!
It might make it more desirable for the person looking for the perfect head but to most people just having one that matches in most ways is acceptable in my book.
Of course in the 70's 80's because of the demand there were some  not original made for the Japanese market but finding one in a bin with a broken shaft should pass the fake test I would hope??

Picture.

Edited by xgolfx, 19 May 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[freddiec]

Teevons,
We gotta see your 693 Toney Penna. Any chance you can post a few pictures of that?  The only other one I've seen was the one Persimmon pal showed me in my kitchen and it was definitely the Real Mccoy.  

[teevons]

I am in Boston for the week, I will try next week to post

freddiec, on 21 May 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Teevons,
We gotta see your 693 Toney Penna. Any chance you can post a few pictures of that?  The only other one I've seen was the one Persimmon pal showed me in my kitchen and it was definitely the Real Mccoy.  

[persimmonpal]

teevons, on 21 May 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

I am in Boston for the week, I will try next week to post






Your in Boston??? Lets get lunch! I live in Medford, just minutes from Boston

freddiec, on 21 May 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Teevons,
We gotta see your 693 Toney Penna. Any chance you can post a few pictures of that?  The only other one I've seen was the one Persimmon pal showed me in my kitchen and it was definitely the Real Mccoy.  

[Cyd]

persimmonpal - I'd love to see the pictures.

cyd2293@gmail.com

Quick question.  are you still doing restoration work?

[xgolfx]

In his original post  persimmonpal stated that  he kept ORIGINAL SHAFT, BAND AND GRIP. THE LATEST POST SAYS HE REPLACED
THE ORIGINAL WITH AN M43 T. He also stated he was not great at cutting face lines. That is one of the errors. He is very good at what he does. That is not a Toney  Penna 693

CHARLEY PENNA

[Bella Woods]

John:

I don't know of any manufacturers that actually made "one offs" as
a habit (or ever) other than prototypes.

It just seems to me that this club has been created by possibly "rogue"
employees or people "after the fact" manipulating a
club.

I wonder why you think it is absolutely original? I have never seen a
Toney Penna 693. Just wondering - what makes it original - the toe stamp?

What were the dimensions of the face/crown prior to your restoration?
Re: I wonder if somebody could have sanded the crown and stamped
something on it that did not belong there. - it would not be the first
time.

[persimmonpal]

Bella Woods, on 29 May 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

John:

I don't know of any manufacturers that actually made "one offs" as
a habit (or ever) other than prototypes.

It just seems to me that this club has been created by possibly "rogue"
employees or people "after the fact" manipulating a
club.

I wonder why you think it is absolutely original? I have never seen a
Toney Penna 693. Just wondering - what makes it original - the toe stamp?

What were the dimensions of the face/crown prior to your restoration?
Re: I wonder if somebody could have sanded the crown and stamped
something on it that did not belong there. - it would not be the first
time.

Hi Wally,
I obviously cant "Prove" that the club is original, but it is my believe that it is. As you know, alot of "oddball" MacGregors turn up from time to time, and noone knows foe sure every club that came out of the factory. I am personally 100% convinced it was all original.. I believe the depth was just a a touch under 1 3/4".
Have you seen my more recent post with the additional pictures?? Thanks!