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What's More Important for Maximizing Distance - Spin Rate, Ball Speed or Launch Angle?


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#1 TomWishon

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:31 AM

Just as the topic says, after scanning lots of posts from golfers about their driver optimization, I am interested in hearing what everyone thinks.  

For maximizing a golfer's swing characteristics into the most distance possible, what do YOU think is first important, second and third between spin rate, ball speed and launch angle?

#1 -

#2 -

#3 -    


And do not try to over read too much into this.  This is to ask, of these three, which is #1 most important for maximizing distance, which is #2 and which is least important.  

TOM


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#2 stevopagolf

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:35 AM

Ok I will bite.

Ball Speed, then launch angle then spin rate...

#3 bepo

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:36 AM

1 - ball speed
2 - spin
3 - launch

#4 Bullroarer Took

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:37 AM

Ball Speed.
Ball Speed.
Ball Speed.

This is especially true if you swing in the mid-90s like I do because launch angle and spin rate will just change the carry/roll ratio.

#5 SHIVAN

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:40 AM

1 - Ball Speed
2 - Launch
3 - Spin


#6 RighttoLeft

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:44 AM

I'll also say:

1 - Ball Speed
2 - Launch
3 - Spin

My reasoning:
I could put a career swing on the ball with my absolute best ballspeed, perfect launch, and spin conditions and still not smell one of Bubba Watson's  drives where his numbers are off.

If we are talking about which variable produces the biggest distance gains in a lab, it is ball speed. No question.

If we are talking which variable produces the longest drives for an individual, it is launch angle. The reason is, of the 3 variables, ball speed is almost fixed.  You can gain or lose a few mph with equipment changes, but launch is the area where you have the most room to play with the numbers, so you are going to have a much, much larger chance of being non-optimal without having the driver fit.

Spin, in my opinion, is important, but as with swing speed, is going to be tough to get any radical changes in numbers.

Edited by RighttoLeft, 14 May 2012 - 12:01 PM.

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#7 MrParr1Noid

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:56 AM

Your ball speed and launch angle will dictate what your spin should be.

Your ball speed will tell you what launch angle will optimize your flight distance and the spin will optimize your trajectory / launch angle and distance.

A person's swing style / type / characteristics, along with launch angle will propel the projectile at a launch angel by which to maximize ones flight.  Speed enhances flight and distance, and spin will optimize both.

p.s.  It seems as though whatever a person believes what is more important?  There is always another way to view distance.   And then we can throw curvature / shot shape into the mix...

p.s.s.  I really don't know but I have an opinion...Posted Image
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#8 baseballfrk8998

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:56 AM

I think they're all equal IMO. What good is 170 ball speed with 4000 RPM's of BS and a 7* launch angle?
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#9 RighttoLeft

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:03 PM

View Postbaseballfrk8998, on 14 May 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

I think they're all equal IMO. What good is 170 ball speed with 4000 RPM's of BS and a 7* launch angle?

A lot better than 70 mph ball speed and perfect launch conditions.
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#10 SHIVAN

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:03 PM

http://www.flightsco...yoptimizer.html

With the example of 170mph BS, 4000 rpm backspin and 7* launch = 273yds carry.  That's pretty useful carry, but not ideal.


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#11 knarfgnourt

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:03 PM

  • ball speed
  • spin = launch angle


#12 Dscvrr St Louis

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:12 PM

okay..

1. Ball Speed...if you aren't getting the max ball speed from your driver, you have the wrong shaft in it...it has to put the face on the ball consistently--I am ASSUMING a more consistent driver of the ball here.

2. SPIN---Ball speed and spin are hand in hand here...without the correct spin to go with an individuals ball speed...nothing else will matter too much..IMO.

3. Launch-- The better the ball speed and Spin are together, you can get away with more variance in launch.  Most stronger swingers I have fit can 'miss' a ball and launch it high, but usually with lower spin due to contact on way up...no loss on ball speed, and the ball will be a great miss...if they launch low, usually get a touch more spin and the ball will carry from the spin...still a good miss.  

This game is all about the least worst miss, right?

Hey Tom ...are you going to give us an answer from your side on this??? Curious.
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#13 Dscvrr St Louis

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:14 PM

View PostSHIVAN, on 14 May 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

http://www.flightsco...yoptimizer.html

With the example of 170mph BS, 4000 rpm backspin and 7* launch = 273yds carry.  That's pretty useful carry, but not ideal.

This is a good miss from a solid player...launched it low, with a ton of spin, no loss on ball speed(hit flush), lower launch negated by excessive spin...agree with Shivan...not optimal..but great miss!

just sayin...


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#14 baseballfrk8998

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:21 PM

Okay. I was wrong. I can admit it!
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#15 LowPost42

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:22 PM

From the "if I could improve my swing to create different..." file:

1) ball speed
2) launch angle
3) spin

Ball speed is the clear cut winner.  More ball speed = more distance.  Even a low launcher at great speed will go farther than an "optimal" launcher at far less speed.  Granted, I'm talking extremes here.  If there was a trick to adding 15 MPH ball speed or finding my perfect launch angle, I'll take the speed.


Now, from a fitting perspective:

1) launch angle
2) spin
3) ball speed


From a fitting perspective, the assumption is that the players' swing is the players' swing.  Let's assume for my logical standpoint that they're already fit into a shaft that works for them and they hit the middle of the face, let's also assume that their AoA won't change.  Ball speed is ranked last here as it theoretically won't improve (the player will not swing faster or hit it better).

There's gains to be made for optimising launch and spin here, but if I could only pick one it'd be launch for most players.  For the handful who hit ideal launch numbers, they get spin work!


#16 Super Tuna

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:22 PM

Ballspeed: To set the constant to alter the L/S variables around
Launch
Spin

#17 jaskanski

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

speed
launch
spin
For the most part, spin is probably consequential to the first two factors.

#18 TomWishon

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:30 PM

View PostDscvrr St Louis, on 14 May 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:


Hey Tom ...are you going to give us an answer from your side on this??? Curious.


Absolutely. . . but we'll let this keep gathering posts of opinions for a while before we let you know what we know from all of our work in this area.  I chose it to ask because I continue to see SO MANY POSTS from golfers asking about one of these three launch parameters so I felt it was a good thing to do to see where everyone was in their opinions and then talk about what is most important and why.

TOM

#19 DaveLeeNC

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:50 PM

Absolutely no doubt - BALL SPEED/BALL SPEED/BALL SPEED.

LA and spin are nothing more than optimization parameters. If distance is your goal there is no (achieveable) optimum ball speed - more is always better (making the reasonable assumption that achieving this higher ball speed - as in clubhead speed - doesn't lead to some outrageous change in AoA, for example).

dave

#20 The Champster

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:52 PM

BS
Launch
Spin


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#21 Myherobobhope

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:52 PM

I've read your book, Tom... so I'm not going to answer your question.

#22 ronniemac

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

Spin, launch and ball speed.

#23 baseballfrk8998

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:21 PM

I still don't think it's BS, not if you're being realistic. The reason I say that is because if you looked at the question and took it at face value, you could say that 1000 MPH ball speed would create the most distance no matter what the spin and LA was. If you're taking a golfer who's max BS is 165, the spin and LA are going to be as important, if not more so, to that golfer than the BS.
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#24 jaskanski

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:30 PM

View Postbaseballfrk8998, on 14 May 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

I still don't think it's BS, not if you're being realistic. The reason I say that is because if you looked at the question and took it at face value, you could say that 1000 MPH ball speed would create the most distance no matter what the spin and LA was. If you're taking a golfer who's max BS is 165, the spin and LA are going to be as important, if not more so, to that golfer than the BS.

Perhaps Tom should clarify the point further. True - if a player has "maxed out" at a given ball speed, then it's an absolute in the equation. Assuming the ball striking is also optimum to give the maximum ball speed, only then can launch and spin have an effect on how far the ball travels (and good old gravity too).
But if it's not the case (it's not 100% clear obviously) simply adding speed to the equation will deliver more distance. That's usually why someone with a ball speed of 170mph hits it further than someone with a ball speed of 150mph. Ye cannae change the laws of physics.

Edited by jaskanski, 14 May 2012 - 01:31 PM.


#25 SHIVAN

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:39 PM

I have seen, on Flightscope, the same strong player handed two different drivers, and AVERAGE ballspeed was increased, over 10 swings each, by changing from one conforming setup to another.

Let's call it 170mph in setup A and 173mph in setup B.  Similar swing speeds, but better average "smash factor".  Something like 1.45 @ 117mph versus 1.48 @ 117mph.


#26 Myherobobhope

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:39 PM

View Postjaskanski, on 14 May 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

View Postbaseballfrk8998, on 14 May 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

I still don't think it's BS, not if you're being realistic. The reason I say that is because if you looked at the question and took it at face value, you could say that 1000 MPH ball speed would create the most distance no matter what the spin and LA was. If you're taking a golfer who's max BS is 165, the spin and LA are going to be as important, if not more so, to that golfer than the BS.

Perhaps Tom should clarify the point further. True - if a player has "maxed out" at a given ball speed, then it's an absolute in the equation. Assuming the ball striking is also optimum to give the maximum ball speed, only then can launch and spin have an effect on how far the ball travels (and good old gravity too).
But if it's not the case (it's not 100% clear obviously) simply adding speed to the equation will deliver more distance. That's usually why someone with a ball speed of 170mph hits it further than someone with a ball speed of 150mph. Ye cannae change the laws of physics.


I think that's his point... all three are important and interrelated... a change in ball speed changes the importance of spin and launch angle.

If you hit a ball 1000 mph with a 0 degree launch angle, it isn't going to go very far (at least compared to a 1 degree launch angle)

#27 baseballfrk8998

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:43 PM

View PostMyherobobhope, on 14 May 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

View Postjaskanski, on 14 May 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

View Postbaseballfrk8998, on 14 May 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

I still don't think it's BS, not if you're being realistic. The reason I say that is because if you looked at the question and took it at face value, you could say that 1000 MPH ball speed would create the most distance no matter what the spin and LA was. If you're taking a golfer who's max BS is 165, the spin and LA are going to be as important, if not more so, to that golfer than the BS.

Perhaps Tom should clarify the point further. True - if a player has "maxed out" at a given ball speed, then it's an absolute in the equation. Assuming the ball striking is also optimum to give the maximum ball speed, only then can launch and spin have an effect on how far the ball travels (and good old gravity too).
But if it's not the case (it's not 100% clear obviously) simply adding speed to the equation will deliver more distance. That's usually why someone with a ball speed of 170mph hits it further than someone with a ball speed of 150mph. Ye cannae change the laws of physics.


I think that's his point... all three are important and interrelated... a change in ball speed changes the importance of spin and launch angle.

If you hit a ball 1000 mph with a 0 degree launch angle, it isn't going to go very far (at least compared to a 1 degree launch angle)

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#28 SHIVAN

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:46 PM

The corollary to the all are equal and interrelated argument is that if you can hand someone a setup that increases ballspeed, even if LA and spin are not "optimal", you will probably net a better result for distance.

See the example above, if you add 3mph ballspeed (173mph), and still launch at 7* and 4000rpm, you will gain 5yds carry.  7* and 4000 is far less than optimal, but with added speed, like with a lighter club, longer shaft, etc you can gain yardage.

#29 axer13

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:47 PM

1) Ball Speed

2) Launch Angle

3) Spin Rate

#30 baseballfrk8998

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:10 PM

View PostSHIVAN, on 14 May 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

The corollary to the all are equal and interrelated argument is that if you can hand someone a setup that increases ballspeed, even if LA and spin are not "optimal", you will probably net a better result for distance.

See the example above, if you add 3mph ballspeed (173mph), and still launch at 7* and 4000rpm, you will gain 5yds carry.  7* and 4000 is far less than optimal, but with added speed, like with a lighter club, longer shaft, etc you can gain yardage.

You would also gain distance if you left the ballspeed at 170 MPH and and decreased spin by 500 rpm's so that point is moot..

I think they're all interrelated and dependent on each other..

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