Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

* * * * - 10 votes

The ballad of Jimmy Ballard...

ballard jimmy ballard

443 replies to this topic

#31 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:10 PM

The teacher was great and I consider him a friend. He is the reason I am shooting the 80's now, rather than low/mid 90's as in years past. We exchanged a few text recently and keep in touch. I have been very forthcoming with him about him being the reason for my recent improvements. However, the S&T components of what I was learning gave me terrible back pain. One week after stopping it, pain went away completely. Just as abruptly as it appeared, it was gone. I spent four months trying, so it wasn't some passing effort that I did improperly. It just wasn't for me. As I said in my OP, I am sure the S&T stuff will work for many. Unfortunately, it just didn't  work for me.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

1

#32 russc

russc

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,097 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 113539
  • Joined: 08/27/2010
  • Location:northern New Jersey
GolfWRX Likes : 466

Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:35 PM

Dan
I have  to take issue with your subtitle"most underrated teacher.Jimmy was named  teacher of the decade in the 1980's,so he is hardly underrated.His connection concept has affected the instruction of most  good instructors.Maintaining the triangle going back is an unforgettable image as is the handkerchief under the left armpit.In recent years instruction has evolved to a more centered swing(Slicefixer,Morad,Foley and S+T) with very little lateral motion going back ,.With many of Mr Ballard students ,there is  easily discernable lateral movement by the upper body going back.Among  his  most successful pro students(Colbert,Strange,Sutton,J.C Snead,Rocco Mediate),Rocco looks to me like he has the most lateral motion of all and almost borders on going over his right side.

Jimmy Grant was a legendary amateur in New England  decades ago.As Jimmy's first assistant ,he certainly knows this swing well.

Good Luck





Edited by russc, 15 May 2012 - 02:39 PM.


2

#33 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

Thanks for the insights man. That is the kind of response I was hoping for. As for my interpretation on how folks view Jimmy Ballard, the first word of the article I linked in the OP was "Ostracized". Yet his book is full of all the greatest golfers in the exact positions he promotes. Nicklaus, Hogan, Trevino, etc... Everything I am reading from his book makes 100% sense. How does the average golfer know Ledbetter, Harmon, Mclean, Smith, Hardy, etc.. so well, but not Jimmy Ballard? Very confusing to me after what I have learned recently.

Edited by danattherock, 15 May 2012 - 02:44 PM.


3

#34 russc

russc

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,097 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 113539
  • Joined: 08/27/2010
  • Location:northern New Jersey
GolfWRX Likes : 466

Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:55 PM

 danattherock, on 15 May 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Thanks for the insights man. That is the kind of response I was hoping for. As for my interpretation on how folks view Jimmy Ballard, the first word of the article I linked in the OP was "Ostracized". Yet his book is full of all the greatest golfers in the exact positions he promotes. Nicklaus, Hogan, Trevino, etc... Everything I am reading from his book makes 100% sense. How does the average golfer know Ledbetter, Harmon, Mclean, Smith, Hardy, etc.. so well, but not Jimmy Ballard? Very confusing to me after what I have learned recently.

I think this has to do more with Mr Ballards's personality.He is the type of person to tell the PGA to take a hike.I still have his left arm connection device,which some other pros have ripped off.And i do not care whose ideass or what ideas that you use,if it cause physical pain then it is not right for you
You could do a LOT WORSE than following Mr Ballard's ideas.

Edited by russc, 15 May 2012 - 02:57 PM.


4

#35 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:02 PM

40 minute video of Jimmy talking about the golf swing.

Namely, he is dispelling myths about what is taught in the modern golf swing. Head can move, left arm doesn't have to be straight, some lateral movement is needed, you can't turn on two joints, etc... Love him or hate him, he lays it on the line and believes what he teaches. Perhaps this is what put him at odds with the teachings of the PGA. I read in the 70's or 80's they took his membership away and later offered it back, but he refused. Lots of history from what I gather, but it seems to stem from him disagreeing with what the PGA teaches.




Edited by danattherock, 15 May 2012 - 03:13 PM.


5

#36 jwfgolfpro

jwfgolfpro

    jwfgolfpro

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 1,187 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 13051
  • Joined: 03/05/2006
  • Ebay ID:jwfgolfpro
GolfWRX Likes : 146

Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:15 PM

 danattherock, on 15 May 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Thanks for the insights man. That is the kind of response I was hoping for. As for my interpretation on how folks view Jimmy Ballard, the first word of the article I linked in the OP was "Ostracized". Yet his book is full of all the greatest golfers in the exact positions he promotes. Nicklaus, Hogan, Trevino, etc... Everything I am reading from his book makes 100% sense. How does the average golfer know Ledbetter, Harmon, Mclean, Smith, Hardy, etc.. so well, but not Jimmy Ballard? Very confusing to me after what I have learned recently.


This was a post from Tiburon: Enjoy.

I started playing golf in 1978 and was fortunate enough to learn from the some of the best instructors in the game. My first formal instruction came from the late and great Claude Harmon, winner of the 1948 Master and also Butch Harmons father who taught all the Harmon brothers everything he knew. In 1984 I started working with Jimmy Ballard who was "the man" in the days before David Bedwetter (Leadbetter), Hank Haney, Rick Smith etc...At that time I was already a scratch golfer, so i already had figured out how to score. In the 1990's after I moved to Florida, I became even closer to Jimmy Ballard and started to spend hours and hours around him and learning every possible thiing I could. At that time I was playing mini tours, the Asian Tour, South American Tour, Hogan Tour/Nike Tour/Buy.com Tour/Nationwide Tour (I played in events out there under all 4 names                                               ), Golden Bear Tour and going through brutal PGA Tour School every October! In 1999 I decided to start going to Las Vegas to have lessons with Butch (and his 1st assistant Shawn Callahan), only because the opportunity arose and seeing I had already learned from his father I figured it would be an easier transition. This had nothing to do with Jimmy Ballards method of the swing not working, because my ball striking was definetly not the problem. I just thought that Butch was more complete with what he knew about the shortgame and what he had learned to add to his repotoir from Tiger.

One thing about golf is that no matter how good you hit the ball, you're not going to hit every green, so you better be able to get the ball up & down....this is what separates the Tigers and Michelsons from rest of the field. I always was real good ballstriker and a good putter, but I chipped and pitched the ball like Hal Sutton....in 1997 I had a round where I hit 17 greens, had 23 putts and shot -12 (60) with a stretch of 9 birdies in a row. On days like that, it really doesn't matter how you chip/pitch the golf ball and I was fortunate to have a lot of those days....but in a four day and 72 hole event your not going to hit all 72 greens although it was always my goal to and I came close a few times    .

Jimmy Ballard, like all the great teachers, breaks the swing into three categories: The set-up, backswing, and the downswing. What I am going to share with you is a summary of notes that I condensed over years of learning just to keep things simple for myself.....after all, when you play golf for a living and are on the road, you have got to be your own best teacher. So I simplified everything and then just learned correct myself from day to day, and even sometimes from hole to hole    .

All great swings start with a good set-up....if you can't get that right, then your fu_ked from the start and won't ever reach your potential!

SET-UP

-Feet with the driver should be atl east shoulder width apart.
-The right foot is square; the left foot is flared out a quarter of a turn.
-A straight back at address promotes a level, less around swing. Drill: put the club behind the ball, then look at your caddy in front of you while taking your stance....then lower the eyes to ball (gets rid of the hunched look)!
-In the grip, both hands oppose each other in a neutral position.
-The ball is positioned off the left heel for full shots.
-The chin should be up, and the chest high.
-The shoulders should be level at address and my upper left arm plugged into my chest (feel like you have a short left arm at address).
-The left arm points down at a address...not at the target.
-Soft arms at address.
-The right arm should be above my left at address, not tucked under.
-Both knees are braced in at address.
-At address, the arms form a triangle with the butt end pointed at the middle of the chest bone.

BACKSWING
-On the backswing there is a loading of the weight into the inside of right foot and leg.
-The left arm should be bent and feel short the entire swing.
-The thumbs both feel like they are under the shaft at the top of the swing.
-The club works straight back (not around) with no forearm rotation...the triangle formed by the arms remains intact with the butt end still pointing at the chest bone. No angles or cocking of the wrist and feel toe down.
-The left hip, left shoulder, and head should all get behind an imaginary line drawn up from the ball.
-Maintain the short left arm on the backswing (connection).
-The right shoulder works up, not around.
-The right wrist is flatter, not cupped (as opposed to some who say you should feel like a waiter holding a tray at the top of the backsing ).
-The left heel comes up, and the left knee points behind the ball.
-Keep the same amount of flex in my right knee from address to the top of the backswing.

DOWNSWING
-The hips and shoulders work level through impact with the eyes releasing to the target (ala. Annika....who in Jimmy's opinion has the most sound swing in golf!) -If the head stays down and still through impact, there will be a hang back in your finish...REVERSE C!
-The only cocking in the swing "feels" like it is done by the elbows, not the wrists.
-Both elbows "feel" like they point down to the ground on the backswing, downswing, and when you finish.
-The left thumb and elbow work like you're "thumbing a ride" through impact. Don't get separation between the arms, because this leads to a blocked position.
-The elbows should finsih close together with a full body release.
-The finish mirrors the backswing.
-In the finish, the shoulders, eyes, and hips are all level.

In comparing Ballard to Butch, here are some of the main differences: Butch wants more weight on the right side at address and the spine tilted away from the target, not straight up and down. He says this makes it easier to get behind the ball without having to make a lateral weight shift.....you just kind of pre-set yourself more behind. Both teachers want a stance that is wide, and atleast shoulder width with the driver. Butch wants the back flat and the arms hanging straight down, which Ballard would say makes you too top heavy.....Ballard likes the feel of taking your stance like your cradling something heavy in your arms. Both teachers want your left shoulder to be over your right leg at the top, but Butch wants it to turn over the right leg....you never hear Ballard use the word "TURN", and says that the only way to actually "turn" in the golf swing is if you have one leg, but with two legs you have two hip sockets. Both teachers definetly want the arms to release through impact with the right arm over the left. Butch wants the club to shallow out more on the downswing which you accomplish by trying to keep your back to the target longer on the downswing....a drill Butch also uses for this is he puts a headcover outside the ball. The one thing that I know Ballard doesn't like that Butch teaches is that Butch wants the left arm high at the top of the swing....Ballard says that is pure disconnection and wants the upper left arm to stay connected to the chest.

The one thing I will say is that what Ballard teaches is very easy to repeat day in and day out. He is not a "try this and try that" type of teacher, he teaches a definite method that he learned from the late and great Sam Byrd and hasn't changed his philosophy in over 40 years. There is no other method that holds up better under pressure. There is a longtime saying on Tour that is often repeated by some of the best players in the world...."if you need someone to hit the ball exactly 162 yds., then you hand the club to Hal Sutton ". I've had the pleasure of spending time with some of the best modern day instructors...ie Leadbetter and Harmon. Leadbetter has ended more careers than he has helped, and Harmon is the most polished looking swing instructor, but no bodies method holds up better and is easier to follow than Jimmy Ballards. I remember having a discussion with Paul Azinger 15 years or so ago about modern day teachers, and he said that the thing that he like about Ballard was that he actually turned golfers into successful Tour players (started working with Hal Sutton at age 17 & Curtis Strange in 1980), not like some of these other teachers that turned already Tour players into better swingers....alot of people don't realize that Faldo was already #1 in the world when he started changing his swing with Leadbetter. That's every teachers wet dream come true!!!

Unlike most great teachers, Ballard only has one book on the golf swing, whereas most good teachers have several.....Ballard is always asked when he is going to write another book, but his reply is "I got it right the first time, so why would I need to write another one". The true test is putting it under pressure and seeing how it holds up, and I will tell you this.....what Ballard teaches holds up under pressure because it's all big muscles without the small twitchy ones that are used when you set angles. Any angle you set on the backswing, has to be perfectly unduplicated on the downswing in order for the club to square up.....getting rid of the angles will make the swing easier to repeat and hold up under pressure when you are so nervous that you can barely grab a breath!

In a nut shell, the three main things that I always try to focus on and that all great ballstrikers have in common:

1. Keep the club in front of the body.
2. Get behind the ball.
3. Release the club.



Edited by jwfgolfpro, 15 May 2012 - 03:53 PM.

Taylormade M1 12* Driver
Taylormade M2 3-HL Fairway
Taylormade M1 #3 Rescue- Bent Flat
M2 Tour Irons 4-AW
Tour Preferred 54* and 60* Wide Sole
Toulon Design Putter 67/100 Madison MR

6

#37 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:25 PM

Posted Image

7

#38 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:27 PM

 jwfgolfpro, on 15 May 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:


SET-UP

-Feet with the driver should be atl east shoulder width apart.
-The right foot is square; the left foot is flared out a quarter of a turn.
-A straight back at address promotes a level, less around swing. Drill: put the club behind the ball, then look at your caddy in front of you while taking your stance....then lower the eyes to ball (gets rid of the hunched look)!
-In the grip, both hands oppose each other in a neutral position.
-The ball is positioned off the left heel for full shots.
-The chin should be up, and the chest high.
-The shoulders should be level at address and my upper left arm plugged into my chest (feel like you have a short left arm at address).
-The left arm points down at a address...not at the target.
-Soft arms at address.
-The right arm should be above my left at address, not tucked under.
-Both knees are braced in at address.
-At address, the arms form a triangle with the butt end pointed at the middle of the chest bone.

BACKSWING
-On the backswing there is a loading of the weight into the inside of right foot and leg.
-The left arm should be bent and feel short the entire swing.
-The thumbs both feel like they are under the shaft at the top of the swing.
-The club works straight back (not around) with no forearm rotation...the triangle formed by the arms remains intact with the butt end still pointing at the chest bone. No angles or cocking of the wrist and feel toe down.
-The left hip, left shoulder, and head should all get behind an imaginary line drawn up from the ball.
-Maintain the short left arm on the backswing (connection).
-The right shoulder works up, not around.
-The right wrist is flatter, not cupped (as opposed to some who say you should feel like a waiter holding a tray at the top of the backsing ).
-The left heel comes up, and the left knee points behind the ball.
-Keep the same amount of flex in my right knee from address to the top of the backswing.

DOWNSWING
-The hips and shoulders work level through impact with the eyes releasing to the target (ala. Annika....who in Jimmy's opinion has the most sound swing in golf!) -If the head stays down and still through impact, there will be a hang back in your finish...REVERSE C!
-The only cocking in the swing "feels" like it is done by the elbows, not the wrists.
-Both elbows "feel" like they point down to the ground on the backswing, downswing, and when you finish.
-The left thumb and elbow work like you're "thumbing a ride" through impact. Don't get separation between the arms, because this leads to a blocked position.
-The elbows should finsih close together with a full body release.
-The finish mirrors the backswing.
-In the finish, the shoulders, eyes, and hips are all level.








You have helped me more than you could realize.


Thank you!!



Posted Image




-Dan

8

#39 jtotto83

jtotto83

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 393 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 53538
  • Joined: 04/12/2008
  • Location:Arlington, TX
  • Handicap:0
GolfWRX Likes : 41

Posted 15 May 2012 - 08:00 PM

 danattherock, on 15 May 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

40 minute video of Jimmy talking about the golf swing.

Namely, he is dispelling myths about what is taught in the modern golf swing. Head can move, left arm doesn't have to be straight, some lateral movement is needed, you can't turn on two joints, etc... Love him or hate him, he lays it on the line and believes what he teaches. Perhaps this is what put him at odds with the teachings of the PGA. I read in the 70's or 80's they took his membership away and later offered it back, but he refused. Lots of history from what I gather, but it seems to stem from him disagreeing with what the PGA teaches.





That video is great. It's good to hear Jimmy dispell some of the misconceptions about what he teaches. Obviously his method is not for everyone, but a lot of his ideas have stood the test of time and are still used today. Thanks for finding and posting this.

9

#40 Cwing

Cwing

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,586 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 37012
  • Joined: 08/10/2007
  • Location:Go Big Blue!!! 8x Champs. Who Dey !!! Go Bengals,
  • Handicap:12.1
GolfWRX Likes : 978

Posted 15 May 2012 - 08:23 PM

Good thread and good luck.

Callaway Epic 10.5* vs Callaway Fusion 9*
Callaway Xr 17*
Callaway RazrX 21 & 24* hybrids
Callaway CF16 5-PW w/Steelfiber i105s vs PING G25 5-U w/DG XP s300
Cleveland RTX 50*,  54* & 58*
PING Ketsch
Garmin g6/Caddytek V2
http://www.golfwrx.c...ings-witb-2013/

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

10

#41 farmer

farmer

    Hall of Fame

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 6,046 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 70095
  • Joined: 12/02/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 2066

Posted 15 May 2012 - 09:48 PM

I generally read your posts, Dan, and I'm interested in your pursuits.  I hope you continue to have good fortune with the Ballard method.

11

#42 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 15 May 2012 - 09:55 PM

Thanks man. Me tooPosted Image


It just makes sense. The more I learn, the more it makes sense. In contrast, I feel like I have been trying to cram a square peg in a round hole for the last 20 years. Over the last three years I have picked up one pearl here, one gold nugget there, but never found the ability to put them all together in an appreciable way.

I would learn this from this person, this from that book, this from that dvd. But in the end, I have became intelligent in the form of a Jeopardy contestant. Knowledge base full of useless tidbits that are often unrelated to each other. I am searching for a blue print, a map of sorts, that I can follow through the inevitable good days and bad days.

Jimmy Ballard seems to have just such a system in place. There are many ways to effectively swing a golf club. It is a shame there is not a flyer they hand out when you buy your first set of clubs that tells you which dang way is FOR YOU. ha ha...



-Dan

Edited by danattherock, 15 May 2012 - 10:10 PM.


12

#43 snkstaff

snkstaff

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 880 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 23556
  • Joined: 01/04/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 4

Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:33 AM

That is a great video clip.

13

#44 The Big Pinch

The Big Pinch

    Everybody Loves Holly

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,124 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 7665
  • Joined: 11/11/2005
  • Location:The Great Lakes State
  • Ebay ID:ezpincher
GolfWRX Likes : 97

Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:54 AM

View PostCARDY, on 15 May 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Dan,


What are the 7 parts?

As another bigger guy the Ballard system intrigues me

Especially since as of late I - ironically - have been working on
- a connected arm swing
- more body turn thru impact
- firm right knee and ankle

NOTE:  there is a training device by IZZO (I believe) that lets you hits balls whilst keeping your biceps connected .. really helps me in times of trouble

My big pet peeve is not being able to self diagnose errors during the round, that must be magic


One golf tee under each armpit will do, make sure the tee's don't fall out during entire swing.
Driver: Callaway x-hot pro 8.5
3 wood: Callaway x-hot 3 deep 14.5
Irons: PING s58 2-pw zz65 w/cushin
Wedge: Cleveland cg 14 (51* and 56*)
Putter: Odyssey black #2
Bag: PING Hoofer

14

#45 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:28 AM

While early in m learning of Jimmy Ballard's swing.

I have not seen any reference to putting anything under the right arm.

Left arm connection is a mainstay in Jimmy's book and dvd, the hankerchief under left arm, etc...

But I have not seen anything about the right arm being viewed in the same fashion.



-Dan

Edited by danattherock, 16 May 2012 - 10:28 AM.


15

#46 jaguar79og

jaguar79og

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 38044
  • Joined: 08/23/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 1

Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:15 PM

Great topic, Dan!


I've been using Ballard's method for the past 5 years, and it just works. Within a year, it took me from shooting in the 120's to the 80's. I've even taken a few lessons with Jim Grant at the Standard Club, as well. The pro I started seeing in 2007and see now is Rob French, who moved to Seattle and is now back in the Atlanta area.  There is no other method for me that makes this much sense.

The great thing about Ballard is you can read his book, or watch his DVDs (including the new one with Rocco),  and you always have that "aha!" moment. I've watched his videos over 50 times and I learn something new every time. Keep practicing, it takes time ingrain the positions and the feel for firing the right side. The Split Club and Club in Center  drills are what i go to when I hit a slump. If you're into swing aids, Ballard has a great one called The Swing Perfector. It forces you to stay connected and makes you fire the right side. He sells it on his website(jimmyballardgolf.com). When I started with his method, I would swing 100 times a day with it and a weighted club.

Good luck and can't wait to hear about your progress!

Here are a couple of other videos:

http://www.oceanreef...Academy-63.html

-Andrew

16

#47 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:36 PM

Thanks for chiming in man. It sounds like Jimmy Ballard left a lasting impression on you and that is great to hear. I still have much to learn but I am very excited.


Thanks for the video links!




-Dan

17

#48 zukszoo

zukszoo

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 360 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 29198
  • Joined: 05/19/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 6

Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:34 PM

Great way to play golf, IMHO. I began practicing this method exclusively last July after a very long and unproductive road with other methods. It helped my to shoot my first ever under par round, for 18, and my consistency has become ridiculous (for me anyway).

Good luck with your journey and I hope it works well for you in the long run.

18

#49 dlam

dlam

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,939 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 107490
  • Joined: 05/06/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 96

Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:04 PM

Dan
I really enjoy your posts everything from putting to swing theory and your honest evaluation of all the instruction you gather to get to the "truth" of your golf swing/stroke in the part few years
The hanker chief  under left armpit doesn't seem to be a good practice for me as I get tight and don't move my left elbow from the side of my chest though it seems to help a lot of players
Ballads theory make a lot of sense and his "connection" of that left arm reminds me of one of TMG pressure point of the left armpit
If you shorten your left thumb and tighten the web space between the left thumb and left forefinger then you might feel the left armpit tighten up
I like to put a tee in that web space between the thumb and forefinger of the left hand during the swing and keep it on place   This keeps my left arm "connected" to the swing via a tight left armpit

19

#50 russc

russc

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,097 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 113539
  • Joined: 08/27/2010
  • Location:northern New Jersey
GolfWRX Likes : 466

Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:25 PM

View Postdlam, on 18 May 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Dan
I really enjoy your posts everything from putting to swing theory and your honest evaluation of all the instruction you gather to get to the "truth" of your golf swing/stroke in the part few years
The hanker chief  under left armpit doesn't seem to be a good practice for me as I get tight and don't move my left elbow from the side of my chest though it seems to help a lot of players
Ballads theory make a lot of sense and his "connection" of that left arm reminds me of one of TMG pressure point of the left armpit
If you shorten your left thumb and tighten the web space between the left thumb and left forefinger then you might feel the left armpit tighten up
I like to put a tee in that web space between the thumb and forefinger of the left hand during the swing and keep it on place   This keeps my left arm "connected" to the swing via a tight left armpit

Diam
You are correct that tightening that web space does affect the muscles involved in holding the left arm to your torso.What is important is that only the VERY UPPER  part of the left arm be connected,not way down to the elbow.That is why the smaller the object(small nerf ball) and the deeper that it is placed  the more effective this idea  is.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

20

#51 pappaf2

pappaf2

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,803 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 99231
  • Joined: 11/26/2009
  • Location:Bay Area, CA
GolfWRX Likes : 828

Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:03 PM

View Postrussc, on 18 May 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

View Postdlam, on 18 May 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Dan
I really enjoy your posts everything from putting to swing theory and your honest evaluation of all the instruction you gather to get to the "truth" of your golf swing/stroke in the part few years
The hanker chief  under left armpit doesn't seem to be a good practice for me as I get tight and don't move my left elbow from the side of my chest though it seems to help a lot of players
Ballads theory make a lot of sense and his "connection" of that left arm reminds me of one of TMG pressure point of the left armpit
If you shorten your left thumb and tighten the web space between the left thumb and left forefinger then you might feel the left armpit tighten up
I like to put a tee in that web space between the thumb and forefinger of the left hand during the swing and keep it on place   This keeps my left arm "connected" to the swing via a tight left armpit

Diam
You are correct that tightening that web space does affect the muscles involved in holding the left arm to your torso.What is important is that only the VERY UPPER  part of the left arm be connected,not way down to the elbow.That is why the smaller the object(small nerf ball) and the deeper that it is placed  the more effective this idea  is.

On a similar note, I use a tee to attain this connection. I take the tee and stick the thin end up into the crease in my arm pit (where the arm and torso meet) and have the fat end (ball stand) sticking out. For me this helps my left arm being connected without being too stuck to my body.
We're not here for a long time,
just a good time.

21

#52 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:15 PM

View Postdlam, on 18 May 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Dan

If you shorten your left thumb and tighten the web space between the left thumb and left forefinger then you might feel the left armpit tighten up
I like to put a tee in that web space between the thumb and forefinger of the left hand during the swing and keep it on place   This keeps my left arm "connected" to the swing via a tight left armpit


Awesome. Thanks man. I always value your input.

As for the short left thumb, Monte gave me a tip two years ago and I found it while reading over old threads I had linked and emailed to myself, stored away with hundreds of others in my "Golf" email folder. The short left thumb is one of the reasons I began shooting consistently in the 80's in recent months. I had shot in the low/mid 90's for a decade so this is a big deal to me personally. I started a thread and got some great contribution here from others about the short left thumb. Still amazes me how such a small thing is such a big thing in the golf swing. But it was, and continues to be, a big source of my recent improvements. Thank you Monte!!


http://www.golfwrx.c...hort+left+thumb



-Dan

Edited by danattherock, 18 May 2012 - 03:06 PM.


22

#53 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:32 PM

View Postrussc, on 18 May 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

What is important is that only the VERY UPPER  part of the left arm be connected,not way down to the elbow.





That is very consistent with what I was recently taught and what I am trying to feel at the range.


The single biggest thing that helped me 'feel' this was a tip earlier in this thread about the left elbow pointing downPosted Image


Thanks again for this.....


View Postjwfgolfpro, on 15 May 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:


SET-UP

-Feet with the driver should be atl east shoulder width apart.
-The right foot is square; the left foot is flared out a quarter of a turn.
-A straight back at address promotes a level, less around swing. Drill: put the club behind the ball, then look at your caddy in front of you while taking your stance....then lower the eyes to ball (gets rid of the hunched look)!
-In the grip, both hands oppose each other in a neutral position.
-The ball is positioned off the left heel for full shots.
-The chin should be up, and the chest high.
-The shoulders should be level at address and my upper left arm plugged into my chest (feel like you have a short left arm at address).
-The left arm points down at a address...not at the target.
-Soft arms at address.
-The right arm should be above my left at address, not tucked under.
-Both knees are braced in at address.
-At address, the arms form a triangle with the butt end pointed at the middle of the chest bone.





I tried it at the range today and had by far my most successful practice session yet. I know, I know, it has only been 9 days since I got my lessons. But today was the day man. I felt like a different person. No big misses, not many pushes (my normal miss), no over draws, etc.. I hit about half the bucket exactly on target. The only variable being distance as some shots were more solid than others. Some slightly thin or slightly fat.

Hitting a 7 iron to a very familiar 150 yard flag, just as many flew over as landed near or slightly short (from mishits). I am doing less work and hitting the ball further and MUCH straighter. This is awesome. I just had to get out of my own way so to speak. I am swinging smooth and what feels like 3/4 swings with a conscious effort to grip the club lighter.

The end goal of this change is to do what Jimmy calls "spring" the shaft, as opposed to pulling the handle. A marriage of right and left arm strength is the ticket from what I gather, in opposition to powering the down swing with solely the left arm.

The static and dynamic changes towards Jimmy Ballard's swing methodology are quite intuitive. The hard part, perhaps today was a breakthrough in this regard, was me no longer yanking the handle down and powering the swing with my left arm. When firing my right side and finishing in a balanced position, everything I hit was solid gold. Felt like I couldn't miss. I got much work to do, but today was a good day. Now I just need to get to where I can hit those shots 8 or 9 times out of 10, rather than 5 or 6. Rome wasn't built in a day (or 9 days). Ha ha....



I want to thank all of you that have contributed here. I really appreciate it. Posted Image





-Dan






Edited by danattherock, 18 May 2012 - 02:35 PM.


23

#54 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:39 PM

View Postpappaf2, on 18 May 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:


On a similar note, I use a tee to attain this connection. I take the tee and stick the thin end up into the crease in my arm pit (where the arm and torso meet) and have the fat end (ball stand) sticking out. For me this helps my left arm being connected without being too stuck to my body.





Thank you. I will try that on the range in the morning.



-Dan




24

#55 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 18 May 2012 - 05:33 PM

I just found an extremely insightful post in an older thread. About ten years old.

Whomever this guy is, he knows his stuff.




You could imagine a square clubface to the path as being angle free. But how do you accomplish that? Jimmy talks about angles as being created when the left elbow does not point down in the swing or when the butt-end of the club is out of center. When you destroy either of these two things (this is also a form of disconnection), you create an angle, the clubface is no longer square and the golf ball starts to curve.


For instance, if your roll the club behind you to the inside when you coil on the backswing, the butt-end of the club is pointing to right field (in baseball terms) and the left elbow is pointing out in front of you. You've now just destroyed the triangle established at address and created an "angle". You will now have to reroute the club to hit the ball squarely. Conversely, if you drag the club away into the backswing, with the butt-end pointing behind you, you've created an angle as well.

Same kind of things can happen on the downswing. Pulling the butt-end at the ball, sliding your hips toward the target or tucking the right elbow all create angles as well.

You should always maintain the triangle formed between the butt-end of the club and your arms throughout, as well as keep the left elbow pointing down. Doing both go hand in hand and are part of "connection". It's hard to hit a golf shot that curves if you're doing that (assuming you're not manipulating or flipping the club with your hands).

At this point, you may be thinking about the change of direction destroying the triangle. However, if you "spring" the shaft with the right side, instead of pulling down or tucking the right elbow, you will maintain the triangle/center and the left elbow will point down. I don't want to get too side-tracked here but an easy way to think about it is; the right elbow/triangle folds "up" on the backswing. It then unfolds through impact (returning to where it started at address) and finally the left elbow folds "down" and up into the finish.

It's unfortunate that some people take one look at Jimmy's teaching and see an overly wide stance and lateral sway. It turns a lot of people off. However, you have to look beyond the cover of the book. It's too bad that not many people have seen Sam Byrd's swing (Jimmy's teacher). He had a much more free flowing swing. One that led him to over 20 wins on tour in a very short period. We have to remember that Jimmy systematized what he learned from Sam over the years. He did so to teach the fundamentals in an easy to understand, systematic manner.

There is room for interpretation down the road. Sam himself taught more like a Harvey Penick. Jimmy has a great way of talking about the swing as it relates to other sports. That, along with introducing video to teaching is why he is such a great teacher.... Sorry for the rant, I just think there may be people out there that have no idea who Jimmy Ballard is, or where his teaching comes from.


Anyway, that's a little more about "angles".






From...

http://www.freegolfi...ft%2Cleft%2Carm

Edited by danattherock, 18 May 2012 - 05:37 PM.


25

#56 russc

russc

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,097 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 113539
  • Joined: 08/27/2010
  • Location:northern New Jersey
GolfWRX Likes : 466

Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:35 PM

View Postdanattherock, on 18 May 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I just found an extremely insightful post in an older thread. About ten years old.

Whomever this guy is, he knows his stuff.




You could imagine a square clubface to the path as being angle free. But how do you accomplish that? Jimmy talks about angles as being created when the left elbow does not point down in the swing or when the butt-end of the club is out of center. When you destroy either of these two things (this is also a form of disconnection), you create an angle, the clubface is no longer square and the golf ball starts to curve.


For instance, if your roll the club behind you to the inside when you coil on the backswing, the butt-end of the club is pointing to right field (in baseball terms) and the left elbow is pointing out in front of you. You've now just destroyed the triangle established at address and created an "angle". You will now have to reroute the club to hit the ball squarely. Conversely, if you drag the club away into the backswing, with the butt-end pointing behind you, you've created an angle as well.

Same kind of things can happen on the downswing. Pulling the butt-end at the ball, sliding your hips toward the target or tucking the right elbow all create angles as well.

You should always maintain the triangle formed between the butt-end of the club and your arms throughout, as well as keep the left elbow pointing down. Doing both go hand in hand and are part of "connection". It's hard to hit a golf shot that curves if you're doing that (assuming you're not manipulating or flipping the club with your hands).

At this point, you may be thinking about the change of direction destroying the triangle. However, if you "spring" the shaft with the right side, instead of pulling down or tucking the right elbow, you will maintain the triangle/center and the left elbow will point down. I don't want to get too side-tracked here but an easy way to think about it is; the right elbow/triangle folds "up" on the backswing. It then unfolds through impact (returning to where it started at address) and finally the left elbow folds "down" and up into the finish.

It's unfortunate that some people take one look at Jimmy's teaching and see an overly wide stance and lateral sway. It turns a lot of people off. However, you have to look beyond the cover of the book. It's too bad that not many people have seen Sam Byrd's swing (Jimmy's teacher). He had a much more free flowing swing. One that led him to over 20 wins on tour in a very short period. We have to remember that Jimmy systematized what he learned from Sam over the years. He did so to teach the fundamentals in an easy to understand, systematic manner.

There is room for interpretation down the road. Sam himself taught more like a Harvey Penick. Jimmy has a great way of talking about the swing as it relates to other sports. That, along with introducing video to teaching is why he is such a great teacher.... Sorry for the rant, I just think there may be people out there that have no idea who Jimmy Ballard is, or where his teaching comes from.


Anyway, that's a little more about "angles".






From...

http://www.freegolfi...ft%2Cleft%2Carm

Within the last 2 months ,i suggested  placing the butt of a driver in your belly button and maintaining the triangle of your arms and the angle of the shaft throughout the takeaway.Guess where i  saw that first.

26

#57 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:40 PM

While dedicated, I am a slow learner russcPosted Image



Just found four great articles about Sam Byrd, Jimmy Ballard, and how the connection swing influenced Ben Hogan.

Very interesting reading for anyone even somewhat interested in Jimmy Ballard's philosophy.


http://talesfromtheb.../jimmy-ballard/




-Dan

27

#58 downtoscratch

downtoscratch

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,252 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 43462
  • Joined: 12/07/2007
  • Location:Cape Coral, Florida
GolfWRX Likes : 19

Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:22 AM

View Postdanattherock, on 14 May 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

My journey towards learning how to properly swing a golf club has introduced me to all kinds of stuff. I have attempted to understand books from many of the most well known teachers and players. The norm for me is that I get a pearl or two from each book, dvd, etc.. but I never find an entire blueprint to go by that I can believe in or perform. I also have several 'training' aids in my garage collecting dust. I have a shelf full of books and dvds in my office. Golf is truly inundated with snake oil.

Last week I spent two days down in Atlanta with Jim Grant at The Standard Club. Jim worked under Jimmy Ballard for years and teaches his connected golf swing as it is called. My intention originally was to attend Jimmy's 3 day golf school in Key Largo, Florida. He lives there and does about a half dozen schools each summer. Unfortunately, I was not able to make that trip. My research and contact with Jimmy Ballard and his wife led me to Jim Grant, long time friend and disciple of Jimmy Ballard.

So I am driving down I-85 last Tuesday morning. Wondering what (if anything) I will learn in the next two days. Worried that I have spent another grand on nothing substantial. Questioning my decision but at the same time holding on to the hope that this will be the real "aha" moment. As it turns out, I stuck gold. Every aspect of this trip was unreal. The facility was as nice as any I had seen and Jim was a breath of fresh air. He smiled, explained fallacies of the golf swing, and told fascinating stories about his days on the PGA tour. The whole time he just kept rolling balls out in front of me on the range offering a tiny suggestion or feeling that would help me out.

During the two days, he taught me the basics of Jimmy Ballard's swing principles. I drove home with a new outlook on golf and 15 pages of notes in a notebook. There is not one phase written down that I don't understand. A first in my pursuit of golf proficiency. If I miss, I know what caused it. If I hit a perfect shot, I know what caused it. If I push the ball, I know one of two reasons for my doing so. For a lack of better terminology, I feel empowered.  In contrast, every other lesson I had ended in me riding home with my head spinning trying to remember what I was taught and wondering how I would be able to process and hold on to the information.

A few years back I bought Bobby Clampett's book, "The Impact Zone". Until getting Jimmy Ballard's book and dvd recently, "The Impact Zone" was the book that had the biggest impact (pun intended) on my golf swing. Cliff notes for the yellow book some say, his book was (and still is)  very valuable to me. I even bought the yellow book, but couldn't understand it. In the end, I can say I agree with many of TGM principles, I just can't digest or employ the material. Unfortunately, my experience doesn't seem that rare.

I even dabbled in S&T recently. More specifically a hitting pattern that blended components of S&T with TGM principles. At 6'6" 300 lbs, I had a very hard time physically doing what was asked of me. My instructor, local, was fantastic. And to his credit, when I did what he asked of me, I made very solid and consistent contact. But in the end, low back pain forced me to abandon the swing. I am sure S&T will work for many, but for me, it just wasn't meant to be.

In contrast, reading Jimmy's book and watching his one hour dvd is more like having a beer with a friend. Casual conversation, loaded with facts, pictures, and references to all the greats in the game. Much reference (and reverence) is given to Ben Hogan. It is a very simple approach to something I have admittingly made harder than it needed to be. A basic athletic motion with a few (7) key concepts. None of which seem contrived or require super human flexibility, timing, or athleticism. My main obstacle is simply undoing all the damage I have done to my golf swing before hearing of Jimmy Ballard.


Interestingly enough, all this originates with Babe Ruth of all people. A tip (hankerchief under left arm) he gave a team mate (Sam Byrd) who later won 25 events on the PGA tour after retiring from baseball. The same guy that helped Ben Hogan. He taught it to Jimmy way back when and it gave birth to Jimmy Ballard as a teacher. We likely would have never heard of Curtis Strange or Hal Sutton had Sam Byrd not taught Jimmy Ballard what Babe Ruth taught him way back when. A fascinating story, truly. But as I said, most importantly, it just makes sense.

My time with Jimmy's swing principles has been brief and I hesitated to make this post to be honest. But in the two weeks since seeing the dvd and only six days since spending time with Jim Grant, my golf swing has already changed. I still have not read the book in it's entirety. I am 39 years old and have been playing golf on some level of consistency since I was in high school. I have hit shots in the last week that I never thought possible. The contact is more solid, I am one club longer, and the trajectory is higher. For the first time, I am consistently getting out of bunkers. My driver is finding the fairway more than usual. Golf is not rocket science I am finding out. The odd thing, I feel like I am doing less, not more, to facilitate this.

I started this thread to see if anyone else has benefited from Jimmy Ballard's teachings. Also, thought it would be good to make other struggling golfers aware of someone that the golf community in general has not acknowledged as much as would seem deserved. To make a very long story short, some of Jimmy's principles defy what is commonly taught by the PGA and it's stable of highly qualified instructors. Being that the average handicap has not been lowered in recent decades, I find this to be more of a reason to see what Jimmy has to offer, not the other way around.


Very interesting article below about Jimmy Ballard for anyone interested....

http://www.departure...f-jimmy-ballard



-Dan
Jim Grant ......... aka 'Mudcat'.  My brother, Del Starks (dec) worked with Jim and Jimmy 'back in the day' at Pine Harbor in Pell City, Al. and later as Jimmy's lead instructor at Doral in the early 80's  dts

28

#59 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:32 AM

Saw some reference to that in an old thread a few weeks back when I was researching Jimmy Ballard. Very cool, thanks for chiming in.


And "Mudcat", yep, I had meant to ask him about what that means. I will have to remember to ask him next time I go down.


Threw me off calling a 65-70 year old guy and on his voice mail hearing, "You have reached Mudcat, leave a message". Posted Image


BTW, Jim was awesome! I learned so much, but it felt easy, casual, almost like osmosis.


Classy guy too, he called a few hours after I got home reminding me to focus on 2 particular things. Told me not to overdo things and to be patient. Reminded me of the likely ups and downs I would experience, the inevitable good days and bad days. Told me not to stand at the range wondering what I was doing wrong if things were off track for some reason. Told me to call him on his cell anytime. As I said in the OP, he was a breath of fresh air.





-Dan

Edited by danattherock, 19 May 2012 - 10:38 AM.


29

#60 danattherock

danattherock

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98548
  • Joined: 11/14/2009
  • Location:18 miles SW of Pinehurst #2
GolfWRX Likes : 160

Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:46 PM

View Postdlam, on 18 May 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Dan
I really enjoy your posts everything from putting to swing theory and your honest evaluation of all the instruction you gather to get to the "truth" of your golf swing/stroke in the part few years
The hanker chief  under left armpit doesn't seem to be a good practice for me as I get tight and don't move my left elbow from the side of my chest though it seems to help a lot of players
Ballads theory make a lot of sense and his "connection" of that left arm reminds me of one of TMG pressure point of the left armpit
If you shorten your left thumb and tighten the web space between the left thumb and left forefinger then you might feel the left armpit tighten up
I like to put a tee in that web space between the thumb and forefinger of the left hand during the swing and keep it on place   This keeps my left arm "connected" to the swing via a tight left armpit




Thanks man. I somehow missed that the first time around.


The last two days I focused on pointing my left elbow down, as opposed to towards the target as usual. What a huge difference. I am most surprised by how it effects my back swing. It also allows me to sincerely feel the connection on my left shoulder (chest). One big thing I learned about the shoulder from Jimmy's book, it is not the point of our upper arm we call the shoulder. It is the big muscles of the chest and the back, the shoulder section. Using these big muscles is a different feel for me, but I am loving it so far. Just have to let go of some old (bad) ways. Namely an arm/wrist dominated swing in which I yanked the handle down from the top.




-Dan



Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

30




Also tagged with ballard, jimmy ballard

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors