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Stock Ping i20 driver Shaft TFC 707D & Club fitting info


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#1 pc2007

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:58 PM

I recently sent PING an email looking for information about their stock driver shaft, TFC 707D.
Below is the mail I sent and the reply I received from them. I'm hoping someone here might have
additional information regarding this shaft or maybe a suitable alternative.

My stats are from the fitting day with the club fitter are as follows:
My SS is 111mph, Ball speed is 167mph, Ball carry is 285yards, 297 in total.
Launch angle was 12.8* spin rate was 2600 approx using the Ping i20 10.5* with TFC 707D stiff
shaft. This was done using the vector ball flight monitor. He recommended that I get the
Ping i20 10.5* with TFC 707D stiff, but it needs to be Tipped for extra stiffness.

Any help would be appreciated
Cheers
PC
************************************************************************************************
Email to Ping Customer service

Hi,
I got fitted recently and was recommended that I get the TFC 707D stock shaft tipped for
extra stiffness. I was told that this TFC 707D stock shaft was made by UST mamiya. I would like
to know the exact UST shaft this is. E.g. torque stiffness etc. What would be an equivalent shaft
to the TFC 707D stock shaft that is tipped for extra stiffness to lower the torque of the shaft.

Thanks for your help
PC

************************************************************************************************

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your interest in PING. Ping golf equipment and the 707 shaft as with most Ping graphite
shafts are manufactured by Aldila not UST, and is specifically designed and developed for Ping.

The torque and weight are 4.1 and 62 grams respectively for a stiff flex shaft but the shaft is not
intentionally comparable to another Aldila shaft.

We also do not have any figures to suggest what a tipped shaft plays like in comparison to any other
shaft.

If you have a follow-up question, please visit our website to submit another request or obtain
additional contact information. Please do not respond to this email - replies cannot be delivered.

http://www.ping.com/

Thank you,

Your friends at PING
Play Your Best


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#2 gr00vetech

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:49 PM

Not going to pull my grip off again but when I changed grips a couple weeks ago the 707d is def made by UST Maymia. Any more specifics I don't know

#3 3 putt Charlie

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:13 PM

There is very little info on the ping web site, but it does have torque: http://www.ping.com/...s.aspx?id=11388  I went to a demo day at the course I play and all the other manufacturers let me hit all their low spin shafts, but for some reason the Ping guys just push the stock 707 shaft.  I normally like a tipped tip stiff shaft with a torque around 3.0 and struggle with soft tips and high torque.  The 707 seems to be fairly tip stiff and perofrms better than I would have expected from the 4.1 torque.  I think it is because the i20 is a low launch, low spin head and most people don't need a whiteboard to get their spin numbers down.  I got less spin hitting the i20 with a stock stiff shaft at 9.5* loft than I did hitting the Razr Fit with a whiteboard 73 stiff, a Fubuki 70X, a Kai'li 70X or an ahina 70X and 8.5* loft.  You see quite a few i20s on the WSB with high end shafts.  I'm just guessing, but I bet some guys order the i20 with their normal favorite shaft and then the combo ends up being not enough spin and too low a launch.  My only complaint with the 707 is that when I go after it I get much more of a hook than I do from most of the other drivers I've hit with lower torque shafts.  Based on the Ping web site, your swing speed might be fast enough to use the 707 in X flex and then the torque comes down to 3.6.  I was getting ball speeds in the low 160s on their launch monitor and they would not even let me try an X, they just told me go with a stiff 707 & 8.5* of loft.  Maybe it was just that demo guy or maybe Ping tells their fitters to stick with shafts that are designed to match their heads.
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#4 alexhsi

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:42 AM

The customer service rep is mistaken. It's a UST Mamiya shaft. I talked to their tech rep and sales rep at a fitting recently and confirm that. And my 707 did have mamiya serial on it, so I am pretty sure it's a UST.

As far as similar shaft in the UST line, I can't really say there is one. Reason being that I have yet to hit a UST that has this much torque (4.1), feels this smooth, and feels this much in control. Maybe it is the head-shaft combo, maybe it is their VTS technology. Regardless, it's a unique shaft that married really well with the i20 head. Now, with that said, I did changed to the WB because I want the launch lower, and I am used to a Diamana feel. I can't complaint about the numbers, but if I didn't have that WB, I had no problem playing the stock 707.

#5 pc2007

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:05 AM

Thanks guys. I actually really like the 707D shaft but would like to see what shaft compares to it when it is tipped. I'm gonna email UST and see what they have to say about it. If anyone has info, please chip in. Thanks again to anyone who has already contributed.
Cheers, PC


#6 Juano

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:46 AM

I had an outdoor ping "fitting" which is no easy task around here. They like to have 95% of their fittings done inside for some reason. I'm glad I made the drive cause for me, whatever feels good inside is a different story outside. I ended up with the opposite of what I thought I would get.
I average around 110ss.  I don't have alot of detailed #'s because the fitter didn't really want to Offer them up.  There was no way I was leaving there with a printout like I see posted on here. When he commented I was a high spin player, I wondered why and asked what my AOA was. That was shot down pretty fast because it's considered teaching information. Ok whatever, it is what it is.
He watched me hit my driver and then gave me the 707x with 9.5 i20. The numbers got better to about 11* and 3200 but with pretty crappy range balls. Then was the g20 with stock x, and that was a visible disaster.  I was surprised cause indoors it felt like the winner .  No need for #'s on that one.  at this point he was done. I said what about a higher kick shaft and 8.5?  I thought there would be some toying around with a couPle different combos.   He then informed me there was nothing else worth trying because nothing he had spun lower than the 707 and it was pointless. I don't know if that meant nothing he had, nothing ping has, or nothing that exists.
I told him I wanted to order with an open face to some degree, and if that should change what loft I ordered?  He looked at me like I was speaking chinese and explained how the dial on the bottom of the r11 is strictly cosmetic and doesn't effect loft.  I tried to show him how returning the face to square would take off loft but was just met with stone face confusion.  
This guy said he's been doing this a while and I believe him.  He's either sick of his job or was having a bad day.  I'm not upset because I confirmed what's gonna work for me. The 707 couldn't have felt smoother and I'm really happy I'm not paying for an upgrade. I love ping but their outdoor fitting around here needs alot of improvement. Let's start with availability. I wonder what those $30k trackmans do the other 99% of their lives?

#7 enis750

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:57 AM

View PostJuano, on 09 May 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I had an outdoor ping "fitting" which is no easy task around here. They like to have 95% of their fittings done inside for some reason. I'm glad I made the drive cause for me, whatever feels good inside is a different story outside. I ended up with the opposite of what I thought I would get.
I average around 110ss.  I don't have alot of detailed #'s because the fitter didn't really want to Offer them up.  There was no way I was leaving there with a printout like I see posted on here. When he commented I was a high spin player, I wondered why and asked what my AOA was. That was shot down pretty fast because it's considered teaching information. Ok whatever, it is what it is.
He watched me hit my driver and then gave me the 707x with 9.5 i20. The numbers got better to about 11* and 3200 but with pretty crappy range balls. Then was the g20 with stock x, and that was a visible disaster.  I was surprised cause indoors it felt like the winner .  No need for #'s on that one.  at this point he was done. I said what about a higher kick shaft and 8.5?  I thought there would be some toying around with a couPle different combos.   He then informed me there was nothing else worth trying because nothing he had spun lower than the 707 and it was pointless. I don't know if that meant nothing he had, nothing ping has, or nothing that exists.
I told him I wanted to order with an open face to some degree, and if that should change what loft I ordered?  He looked at me like I was speaking chinese and explained how the dial on the bottom of the r11 is strictly cosmetic and doesn't effect loft.  I tried to show him how returning the face to square would take off loft but was just met with stone face confusion.  
This guy said he's been doing this a while and I believe him.  He's either sick of his job or was having a bad day.  I'm not upset because I confirmed what's gonna work for me. The 707 couldn't have felt smoother and I'm really happy I'm not paying for an upgrade. I love ping but their outdoor fitting around here needs alot of improvement. Let's start with availability. I wonder what those $30k trackmans do the other 99% of their lives?

wow that sounds like a TERRIBLE fitting experience w PING and very far off what other have experienced there from what i have read here

the high torque in the stock TFC makes sense, as I spun the crap outta that thing
and compared to what im hitting now in the i20 both driver and fwy, it sure is a boardy feeling shaft - even w such high torque numbers
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#8 Cameron Circle T

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:42 AM

View Postenis750, on 09 May 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

View PostJuano, on 09 May 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I had an outdoor ping "fitting" which is no easy task around here. They like to have 95% of their fittings done inside for some reason. I'm glad I made the drive cause for me, whatever feels good inside is a different story outside. I ended up with the opposite of what I thought I would get.
I average around 110ss.  I don't have alot of detailed #'s because the fitter didn't really want to Offer them up.  There was no way I was leaving there with a printout like I see posted on here. When he commented I was a high spin player, I wondered why and asked what my AOA was. That was shot down pretty fast because it's considered teaching information. Ok whatever, it is what it is.
He watched me hit my driver and then gave me the 707x with 9.5 i20. The numbers got better to about 11* and 3200 but with pretty crappy range balls. Then was the g20 with stock x, and that was a visible disaster.  I was surprised cause indoors it felt like the winner .  No need for #'s on that one.  at this point he was done. I said what about a higher kick shaft and 8.5?  I thought there would be some toying around with a couPle different combos.   He then informed me there was nothing else worth trying because nothing he had spun lower than the 707 and it was pointless. I don't know if that meant nothing he had, nothing ping has, or nothing that exists.
I told him I wanted to order with an open face to some degree, and if that should change what loft I ordered?  He looked at me like I was speaking chinese and explained how the dial on the bottom of the r11 is strictly cosmetic and doesn't effect loft.  I tried to show him how returning the face to square would take off loft but was just met with stone face confusion.  
This guy said he's been doing this a while and I believe him.  He's either sick of his job or was having a bad day.  I'm not upset because I confirmed what's gonna work for me. The 707 couldn't have felt smoother and I'm really happy I'm not paying for an upgrade. I love ping but their outdoor fitting around here needs alot of improvement. Let's start with availability. I wonder what those $30k trackmans do the other 99% of their lives?

wow that sounds like a TERRIBLE fitting experience w PING and very far off what other have experienced there from what i have read here

the high torque in the stock TFC makes sense, as I spun the crap outta that thing
and compared to what im hitting now in the i20 both driver and fwy, it sure is a boardy feeling shaft - even w such high torque numbers


You're right on the feel, typically more torque = softer feeling, but technically speaking torque has absolutely no real impact on spin numbers.

See this post from Howard Jones quoting the now famed Callaway study on Torque

http://www.golfwrx.c...ost__p__3365153

Quote


Here is a copy of an old mail iv got from Mitchell Golf Equipment institute about the subj. Torque.

From Jcastle@fujikura-ca.com

From the Lab:

What does that elusive thing in a shaft called "torque" really do? This comes out of the R&D facility of Callaway Golf. (They invested 30 mill USD into it, and have some really neat stuff). Their study (they actually did 2 in 3 years), was to find effects to torque on:

1. Launch angle.
2. Ball spin.
3. Distance
4 . Dispersion

They made 10 identical clubs with the only variable that changed being the "torque" of the shaft.
The torque ranged from 2 degrees to 26 degrees.

Their finding was that torque has no, nothing, nada, zip to do with any of the four areas of research.
True. Believe it, we saw the video. The conclusion is: The only thing torque contributes to is the feel of the golf shot. The human golfer cannot swing fast enough to impact the twisting (bending yes) of the shaft during the swing, and the ball is on the club for such a short time (dwell time), it doesn't have the time to be influenced by the shaft twisting at impact.






#9 pc2007

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:10 PM

Juano, Sorry to hear you had a poor fitting.
Mine was outdoors, albeit from a driving bay but you could still see the ball flight. To give you an example of the drop in numbers comparing the ping and my two other drivers I compared with. 1st A titleist 907 D2 9.5* PL Red stiff ... Launch 10* spin rate 4400 rpm !!! 2nd was a 9064 RIP gamma 9.5 stiff. Launch 10.5 & spin rate 3500 rpm. They tried me with the R11s Fuji blur and that was a Lot better but still no way near as good as the ping.  the ping and the 707D for me were a serious combo.

#10 jpalermo

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:05 PM

View Postenis750, on 09 May 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

View PostJuano, on 09 May 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I had an outdoor ping "fitting" which is no easy task around here. They like to have 95% of their fittings done inside for some reason. I'm glad I made the drive cause for me, whatever feels good inside is a different story outside. I ended up with the opposite of what I thought I would get.
I average around 110ss.  I don't have alot of detailed #'s because the fitter didn't really want to Offer them up.  There was no way I was leaving there with a printout like I see posted on here. When he commented I was a high spin player, I wondered why and asked what my AOA was. That was shot down pretty fast because it's considered teaching information. Ok whatever, it is what it is.
He watched me hit my driver and then gave me the 707x with 9.5 i20. The numbers got better to about 11* and 3200 but with pretty crappy range balls. Then was the g20 with stock x, and that was a visible disaster.  I was surprised cause indoors it felt like the winner .  No need for #'s on that one.  at this point he was done. I said what about a higher kick shaft and 8.5?  I thought there would be some toying around with a couPle different combos.   He then informed me there was nothing else worth trying because nothing he had spun lower than the 707 and it was pointless. I don't know if that meant nothing he had, nothing ping has, or nothing that exists.
I told him I wanted to order with an open face to some degree, and if that should change what loft I ordered?  He looked at me like I was speaking chinese and explained how the dial on the bottom of the r11 is strictly cosmetic and doesn't effect loft.  I tried to show him how returning the face to square would take off loft but was just met with stone face confusion.  
This guy said he's been doing this a while and I believe him.  He's either sick of his job or was having a bad day.  I'm not upset because I confirmed what's gonna work for me. The 707 couldn't have felt smoother and I'm really happy I'm not paying for an upgrade. I love ping but their outdoor fitting around here needs alot of improvement. Let's start with availability. I wonder what those $30k trackmans do the other 99% of their lives?

wow that sounds like a TERRIBLE fitting experience w PING and very far off what other have experienced there from what i have read here

the high torque in the stock TFC makes sense, as I spun the crap outta that thing
and compared to what im hitting now in the i20 both driver and fwy, it sure is a boardy feeling shaft - even w such high torque numbers


You like the 65n? I had a 65n s2 tipped and inch and a half, tipped it 1/2" at time and couldn't stop snap hooking the crapola out of that thing

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#11 Vegaman

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:15 AM

I hit the 707D the other day into a net with an i20 head, the 8.5 degrees. My SS is around 110-114 mph and this felt really stout and stiff. Very much like a "true" Xflex. No numbers though, but I had feeling the ball went low. This being a standard shaft from Ping I must say it seems like a very "serious" shaft indeed.

#12 Bunker33

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:31 AM

View Postpc2007, on 08 May 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

I recently sent PING an email looking for information about their stock driver shaft, TFC 707D.
Below is the mail I sent and the reply I received from them. I'm hoping someone here might have
additional information regarding this shaft or maybe a suitable alternative.  
My stats are from the fitting day with the club fitter are as follows:
My SS is 111mph, Ball speed is 167mph, Ball carry is 285yards, 297 in total.
Launch angle was 12.8* spin rate was 2600 approx using the Ping i20 10.5* with TFC 707D stiff
shaft. This was done using the vector ball flight monitor. He recommended that I get the
Ping i20 10.5* with TFC 707D stiff, but it needs to be Tipped for extra stiffness.

Any help would be appreciated
Cheers
PC
************************************************************************************************
Email to Ping Customer service

Hi,
I got fitted recently and was recommended that I get the TFC 707D stock shaft tipped for
extra stiffness. I was told that this TFC 707D stock shaft was made by UST mamiya. I would like
to know the exact UST shaft this is. E.g. torque stiffness etc. What would be an equivalent shaft
to the TFC 707D stock shaft that is tipped for extra stiffness to lower the torque of the shaft.

Thanks for your help
PC

************************************************************************************************

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your interest in PING. Ping golf equipment and the 707 shaft as with most Ping graphite
shafts are manufactured by Aldila not UST, and is specifically designed and developed for Ping.

The torque and weight are 4.1 and 62 grams respectively for a stiff flex shaft but the shaft is not
intentionally comparable to another Aldila shaft.

We also do not have any figures to suggest what a tipped shaft plays like in comparison to any other
shaft.

If you have a follow-up question, please visit our website to submit another request or obtain
additional contact information. Please do not respond to this email - replies cannot be delivered.

http://www.ping.com/

Thank you,

Your friends at PING
Play Your Best

The 707 is made by ust mamiya!!! Unless ust mamiya translates into aldila somehow then that customer service rep dead on. There is a ust label under the grip and for nothingi got the i20 somewhat because of ust making the shaft. I love ust shafts. As for whats comparable i was told that the x flex is close to the vts black in x flex and the reg n stiff are close to the vts in silver

#13 Llortamaisey

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 08:30 AM

View Postpc2007, on 09 May 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

Thanks guys. I actually really like the 707D shaft but would like to see what shaft compares to it when it is tipped. I'm gonna email UST and see what they have to say about it. If anyone has info, please chip in. Thanks again to anyone who has already contributed.
Cheers, PC

I ordered my i20 with a 707 tipped 1". It's a great combo. The tipping didn't improve my numbers but it gave the shaft a smooth feel like Yacht Rock.

Like others have said, don't worry about the torque because it doesn't affect performance, only feel. The ball only stays on the face for .0004 of a second. That's not long enough for torque to influence the ball.

As for comparison, the only one I could think of is the Proforce 75 but smoother. It's like if Michael McDonald and the Proforce 75 had a child, it would be the 707.

#14 pc2007

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:04 AM

Hi again folks.
I contacted the people at UST about my query, and I must admit, I have to bow to your superior knowledge. Below is the reply I got to my original post.

***********************************************
Hi Pat The Ping 707D shaft is designed specifically for Ping Golf. It is most like our Proforce VTS Silver 6 SX flex. All of the numbers from the launch monitor are pretty good! I'm not sure I would change a thing!!

The only thing I might suggest would to try an X flex in the VTS Silver 6 X.

Golfingly,
Jamie Pipes
UST Mamiya
************************************************

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice.
Cheers
PC

#15 PINGWRXforeme

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:44 AM

Thanks for the leg work. I will be trying one in my i20. I'm thinking silver 65 x or tipped s


#16 pc2007

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

You're welcome. I'm not sure which way to go, tipped Stiff stock or SX/X stiff upgrade. The red and pearl white VTS looks fantastic though and that could swing the vote in its favour.

#17 PINGWRXforeme

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:01 PM

I was unaware they make a SX. I ordered an X and I'm having a "good" fitter play with it to get it right for my swing. Thanks again big box for wreaking my OBAN.

#18 J.W.

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:15 PM

707X is an awesome shaft, I actually use it quite a bit in G20 heads.  Lower launching and spinning than 169 Tour without a $200 price tag.

#19 PINGWRXforeme

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:03 PM

Can un cuts be purchased?

#20 schwollo

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:27 PM

"Michael McDonald and proforce 75" hahahahah a
Ya mo be there


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#21 pdaero

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:39 PM

That's great to know that the VTS Silver is like the 707D - I was strongly considering that combination for a while. I like the feel of the 707D Stiff, but I just like something about 10 grams heavier. On my more intensive swings, I could really feel the shaft bend in my downswing.
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#22 From_Parts_Unknown

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:42 PM

View Postschwollo, on 14 May 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

"Michael McDonald and proforce 75" hahahahah a
Ya mo be there

That's What a Fool Believes....




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