56 replies to this topic

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

Great golfers who did this in the past-- such as Sam Snead, Ben Hogan and Lee Trevino-- all found their careers ended by the yips.

I was suprised that the yips ended Snead, Hogan and Trevino's careers.  This is sad because Trevino's career was pretty much over when he was just slightly older than Tiger.  

The video is interesting because it shows how over time, golfers develop the yips.  It also shows how they can counteract the yips.

Edited by Frankie Lob Wedge, 08 May 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[Guia]

Tiger does not have the Yips!!!!!!  

He does not meet the definition:  The 'yips' are every golfers worst nightmare.  An average golfer who experiences the 'yips' will add an extra 5.5 shots to their round.  Jerks, twitches, tremors and freezing are all physical antecedents of the 'yips' response.  Psychological responses include frustration, embarrassment, intense anxiety and increased self-consciousness.  The longevity of the problem means that most golfers end up quitting. They can't rationalize what's happening. They over analyze what's going on. But there is little point. The movements they experience are involuntary therefore they have no control over them.  Their 'yips' affected putt is nothing short of embarrassing which further contributes to the problem.  The 'yips' also affect other sports such as darts (commonly known as dartitis) and cricket bowling. Additionally, occupational tasks are affected such as dentists, surgeons, typists, artists and musicians.

[maxmw]

oh wow. not that video again.... that video is a load of crap

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

Did you watch the video?  I think it is pretty clear what the problem is. I am trying to constructive instead of just blaming Foley or Haney or Butch.   Seems like the putting hands are getting too twitchy.

[churnd]

He does not have the yips.  I just read Haney's book yesterday.  I'm not saying the book is true, but some interesting facts if it is:

• Haney didn't differ from Harmon that much... the biggest difference was how Tiger's backswing should look.
• The stack & tilt swing is the worst possible swing for someone who has trouble with "getting stuck" on the way down.

Both are related.  Haney had Tiger either shorten his backswing or lay it off (kinda like Rickie) to fight getting stuck... especially with his woods (driver & 3 wood).  This is why you see Tiger practice that exaggerated over the top move all the time... because he's trying to fix "getting stuck", rather than just avoid it.  He thinks he can beat it.  It could be his downfall.

[Bob57]

Tiger may or may not have the beginnings of the yips, but the physical twitches aren't there that Hogan, Snead, Langer, Trevino and others developed and could be seen plainly on the green.  I still think the day Earl Woods died Tiger's putting was on limited life support..  Earl was and will be the only guy that could "fix" Tiger when his stroke got out of whack...  No way in hell is Sean Foley going to make Tiger's stroke work again.  He can't even get Tiger back to the best chipper in the world.  Sean Foley may or may not get Tiger into the top 10 in overall driving but his GIR, scrambling, and putting are shot..  He will be just like every other golfer out there---he will have an occasional hot round and will win a tournament every now and then.  Majors are another matter..  He definitely will not win a major at age 46.

A tired refrain is the absolute waste of 6+ years during his swing changes.  All those wins and majors that were lost while he changed his swing..  Easily by now he would have passed Nicklaus and Snead for wins and majors if he hadn't thrown those 6  years away.  We also know that the BS about Butch's swing hurting his knee is just that (as Butch often said).  The damage came from his immature affliction of wanting to be a navy seal (love me daddy) and all his stupid parachute jumping, boot camp, and participating in hand to hand combat.  The hand to hand combat is the biggest joke for anyone that has ever known a real navy seal.

Edited by Bob57, 08 May 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

I have no idea why a golfer would decide to jog and run.  Jogging/running beat the heck out of your knees.  Bike riding or swimming or even a treadmill or eliptical are a better choice.  I think Foley and others try to fix one thing and another breaks.

The people bashing Foley or Haney are all wet.

[farmer]

I have a friend with chipping yips, and tiger looks nothing like him.  It's so awful to watch that I can't even describe it.  I've seen him just off the green in reg and finally pick up.  Tiger's got some problems, but nothing like full blown yips.

[kemau]

doubt anyone who is saying tiger has the yips knows what it actually is....the fodder is entertaining though

[Awsi Dooger]

Guia, on 08 May 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Tiger does not have the Yips!!!!!!  

He does not meet the definition:  The 'yips' are every golfers worst nightmare.  An average golfer who experiences the 'yips' will add an extra 5.5 shots to their round.  Jerks, twitches, tremors and freezing are all physical antecedents of the 'yips' response.  Psychological responses include frustration, embarrassment, intense anxiety and increased self-consciousness.  The longevity of the problem means that most golfers end up quitting. They can't rationalize what's happening. They over analyze what's going on. But there is little point. The movements they experience are involuntary therefore they have no control over them.  Their 'yips' affected putt is nothing short of embarrassing which further contributes to the problem.  The 'yips' also affect other sports such as darts (commonly known as dartitis) and cricket bowling. Additionally, occupational tasks are affected such as dentists, surgeons, typists, artists and musicians.

It's definitely not the full blown yips. I think I described it in another thread as professional yips, and even at that point it's nothing close to what Michelle Wie, for example, has displayed.

Excellent point that yips can work itself not only into other areas of your game, but elsewhere in life. When I developed the yips in golf I could no longer roll over my left handed backhand in tennis or ping pong as dependably. My hand would twitch while doing that so I had to resort to cut shots, even if they didn't fit the situational need.

I can't count how many times I've been asked to write my signature a second time, for official reasons. If my hand is yipping while writing my name it won't look anything like what they have on record.

[exquisitechip]

Frankie Lob Wedge, on 08 May 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I have no idea why a golfer would decide to jog and run.  Jogging/running beat the heck out of your knees.  Bike riding or swimming or even a treadmill or eliptical are a better choice.

This is where you lose credibility with me. Jogging is what healthy people do.

[Guia]

Jogging is very hard on feet, knees, and hips.  If you have weak knees you should find another way to exercise.  

I ran for college and for the military and my knees are shot.  Went to swimming and biking.

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

exquisitechip, on 08 May 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Frankie Lob Wedge, on 08 May 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I have no idea why a golfer would decide to jog and run.  Jogging/running beat the heck out of your knees.  Bike riding or swimming or even a treadmill or eliptical are a better choice.

This is where you lose credibility with me. Jogging is what healthy people do.

Go for it.  Do it daily and run on pavement,

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

Guia, on 08 May 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Jogging is very hard on feet, knees, and hips.  If you have weak knees you should find another way to exercise.  

I ran for college and for the military and my knees are shot.  Went to swimming and biking.

He will learn.  He really needs to step it up though.  Hundreds of thousands of shock/impact to bones and cartlidge never hurt anyone.

[StevenF]

exquisitechip, on 08 May 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Frankie Lob Wedge, on 08 May 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I have no idea why a golfer would decide to jog and run.  Jogging/running beat the heck out of your knees.  Bike riding or swimming or even a treadmill or eliptical are a better choice.

This is where you lose credibility with me. Jogging is what healthy people do.

Lol this is irony if I've ever seen it.

[QMany]

Bob57, on 08 May 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

Sean Foley may or may not get Tiger into the top 10 in overall driving but his GIR, scrambling, and putting are shot.

Sorry to upset this bashing with actual facts ...

Greens in Regulation 68% 19th
Scrambling 64% 18th
Strokes Gained Putting .562 18th

Everyone needs to just take a chill pill. Tiger will be just fine.

[TheDarkOne]

I wonder if the Yips will in fact end Woods career.
If anyone wonders if he has them, simply watch any of his recent rounds, especially this weekend. The classic "jab" move with the putter comes into play a few times every round. Now the question is will it start to be every hole, or just at random times. I sure hope it's not permanent that would be awful.
In the Haney book, Hank talks about witnessing his putting deteriorating first hand.

I hope we don't see another great player lost to this, but all the evidence is pointing to it. Would not be shocked at all to see Woods with a belly putter soon. It would be a huge help, especially when his hands get twitchy.

[QMany]

STROKES GAINED PUTTING
Tiger Woods - .562 - 18th on Tour
Rory McIlroy - .428 - 32nd on Tour
Rickie Fowler - (.235) - 140th on Tour

I hope those young guns can control those yips. Get um' some belly putters!

Edited by QMany, 09 May 2012 - 05:38 AM.

[DLiver]

Frankie Lob Wedge, on 08 May 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Guia, on 08 May 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Jogging is very hard on feet, knees, and hips.  If you have weak knees you should find another way to exercise.  

I ran for college and for the military and my knees are shot.  Went to swimming and biking.

He will learn.  He really needs to step it up though.  Hundreds of thousands of shock/impact to bones and cartlidge never hurt anyone.

Current science disputes that contention:

http://well.blogs.ny...elp-your-knees/

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

DLiver, on 09 May 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

Frankie Lob Wedge, on 08 May 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Guia, on 08 May 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Jogging is very hard on feet, knees, and hips.  If you have weak knees you should find another way to exercise.  

I ran for college and for the military and my knees are shot.  Went to swimming and biking.

He will learn.  He really needs to step it up though.  Hundreds of thousands of shock/impact to bones and cartlidge never hurt anyone.

Current science disputes that contention:

http://well.blogs.ny...elp-your-knees/

Go for it. Nothing holding you back.

Back to the topic.:
I wonder if abelly putter could help Tiger's yips.

[Guia]

The point is that Jogging won't necessarily injure someone who has HEALTHY knees.  Tiger does not have healthy knees, jogging is high impact and he is prone to strain and injury.  

I was a runner from the age of 14 to 38 and logged many miles eventually the repetition wore out my knees.  Does this happen to every runner, no.  But anyone who has damaged his knee as Tiger has will eventually suffer from the repeated impact and erosion.

Age gets to us all eventually, some sooner than others.  

Speaking of exercise.  Last week I met a 77 year old who was biking from L.A. to Chicago.  He has biked across the U.S. coast to coast 4 times.  He has 100,000 miles on his Trek bike.  Obviously no knee problems.

Edited by Guia, 09 May 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[twgolf]

Why is it that everyone has the answer to what is wrong with Tiger's game?  From the media, golf analysts, former pros, swing coaches, and the arm chair quarterbacks on on line golf sites.  I thank we just need to let it takes it course and see what happens.  I'm so sick of hearing about it every week.  I hope Tiger starts winning or laps the field this week or retires from golf all together.  At least then all the crazy media blitz and all the expert opinions would stop and we could just watch golf!

Below are the stats of four players that have won on the PGA Tour this season.  See if you can figure out who is who in this list.  Tiger is one of the four and from his stats in 2012 he appears to be doing just as well as the other three guys and we are early in the season yet.

       A B C D

WINS                1 1 1 2

2ND PLACE FINISHES     2 1 1 0

3RD PLACE FINISHES     1 1 0 0

TOP 10s        4 4 2 3

TOP 25s                4 5 4 7

EVENTS PLAYED          5 10 7 9

MISSED CUTS        0 1 1 0

SCORING AVG         69.31     69.92    69.86   70.53

SCORING AVG RANK     1st 9th 2nd 18th

DRIVING DISTANCE     10th 48th 26th 85th

DRIVING ACCURACY     134th 140th 42nd 8th

TOTAL DRIVING        45th 98th 4th 11th

GIR                  20th 42nd 19th 5th

STROKES GAINED PUT   32nd 5th 18th 50th

TOTAL PUTTING        56th 24th 25th 47th

BIRDIE AVG      1st 4th 24th 33rd

SCRAMBLING      17th 2nd 18th 46th

BALL STRIKING      21st 62nd 23rd 5th

GO FOR IT DISTANCE   26th 148th 1st 123rd

ALL AROUND RANKING   1st 9th 6th 31st

Edited by twgolf, 09 May 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[Ty_Webb]

twgolf, on 09 May 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Why is it that everyone has the answer to what is wrong with Tiger's game?  From the media, golf analysts, former pros, swing coaches, and the arm chair quarterbacks on on line golf sites.  I thank we just need to let it takes it course and see what happens.  I'm so sick of hearing about it every week.  I hope Tiger starts winning or laps the field this week or retires from golf all together.  At least then all the crazy media blitz and all the expert opinions would stop and we could just watch golf!

Below are the stats of four players that have won on the PGA Tour this season.  See if you can figure out who is who in this list.  Tiger is one of the four and from his stats in 2012 he appears to be doing just as well as the other three guys and we are early in the season yet.

       A B C D

WINS                1 1 1 2

2ND PLACE FINISHES     2 1 1 0

3RD PLACE FINISHES     1 1 0 0

TOP 10s        4 4 2 3

TOP 25s                4 5 4 7

EVENTS PLAYED          5 10 7 9

MISSED CUTS        0 1 1 0

SCORING AVG         69.31     69.92    69.86   70.53

SCORING AVG RANK     1st 9th 2nd 18th

DRIVING DISTANCE     10th 48th 26th 85th

DRIVING ACCURACY     134th 140th 42nd 8th

TOTAL DRIVING        45th 98th 4th 11th

GIR                  20th 42nd 19th 5th

STROKES GAINED PUT   32nd 5th 18th 50th

TOTAL PUTTING        56th 24th 25th 47th

BIRDIE AVG      1st 4th 24th 33rd

SCRAMBLING      17th 2nd 18th 46th

BALL STRIKING      21st 62nd 23rd 5th

GO FOR IT DISTANCE   26th 148th 1st 123rd

ALL AROUND RANKING   1st 9th 6th 31st

C?

[Ty_Webb]

exquisitechip, on 08 May 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Frankie Lob Wedge, on 08 May 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I have no idea why a golfer would decide to jog and run.  Jogging/running beat the heck out of your knees.  Bike riding or swimming or even a treadmill or eliptical are a better choice.

This is where you lose credibility with me. Jogging is what healthy people do.

He posted the SOMAX video as an actual citation of something and THIS is where he loses credibility?????????

[Skaffa77]

Interesting discussion.   I can't view the video (YouTube banned at work), but I would say that his short game in general has been a bit of surprise to me.

I think his swing is still a work in progress and you see glimpses of what it can (and likely will) be, but you can also see where it's lost at times.   The short game around and on the greens isn't exactly stellar at this point...whether or not he has the "yips", I can't say, but I will say that I think his short game is playing a factor in his scoring.

[Llortamaisey]

I would like to point out, to those who watched the video, they use Figjam as the example of what Tiger should swing like in order to eliminate the yips.

Now, I'm not saying Phil has the yips but historically he has had a lot more trouble getting the ball in the hole from short distances than Eldrick. To me, that makes the argument completely flawed.

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

What other older players switched to the belly putter to try to cure the yips in the twilights of their career?   Did Trevino try one to calm his yips?  I think there were others who went to the belly putter to try to make cuts as they got older.

This is an option for Tiger, or Eldrick as some call him, to try to cure his yips.  I think a belly putter might help.

[jack1123]

The problem with Tiger, I think, would be that he is too much of a traditionalist/too big an ego (maybe) to use a belly putter, or for that matter anything other then an Anser style

Edited by jack1123, 09 May 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[psd]

One thing I would like to see but don't know how to get at the data and that is the number of putts that Tiger has missed inside 10 feet and how many broke from left-to-right, right-to-left, or had minimal break.  I realize a left-to-right putt is typically more difficult for a righthanded player (although I don't know scientifically why that is), but it seems to me that those putts are giving Tiger a lot of trouble lately.  I wonder if this miss is happening with more frequency now.

[tElihu]

Frankie Lob Wedge, on 09 May 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

What other older players switched to the belly putter to try to cure the yips in the twilights of their career?   Did Trevino try one to calm his yips?  I think there were others who went to the belly putter to try to make cuts as they got older.

This is an option for Tiger, or Eldrick as some call him, to try to cure his yips.  I think a belly putter might help.

Keep stirring this hard and soon  you'll need a bigger spoon.