28 replies to this topic

[frikkie5000]

I'm going in for a fitting on Monday. I'm probably going to end up with a set of Ping i20's so bending the lie angles is a pain in the butt. I'm working on flattening coming into impact and I'm not sure if I should get the clubs in the range where I want to end up (and how much) or where I am currently?

I currently have a set of Ping i15's (0.75 degrees upright). I've been working hard on flattening my plane into impact and I feel as if I'm progressing quite nicely. I've been noticing my ball slowly but surely going left more and more; turning into a straightish pull shot, not catastrophically so, but enough to make me think my lie angles may be too upright.  

I'm a shortish fellow at 5'9 (35" wrist to floor). Given the fact that guys like Bradley Hughes and Geoff Jones advocate flatter lie angles, what should I do? Go like 3 or 4 degrees flat and grow into the clubs? I can't help but think my progress is being retarded due to my body coming in steeper than I want it to so I can hit the ball properly.

[MSUFanatic]

What's the bottom of the club tell you and your divot patern? Is the bottom of the club getting more dirt on the toe or the heel or evenly dispersed? If it is on the toe yes it could be the lie angle, but a pull could be quite a few things.

Maybe your grip is a tad too strong trying to overcompensate for your steep angle of attack in the past causing a slice. Maybe trying a slightly weaker grip?

3 to 4 degrees flat is a HUGE change and I definitely would not recommend jumping to that extreme. Probably need a little more information to accurately diagnose the problem.

[russc]

frikkie5000, on 03 May 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

I'm going in for a fitting on Monday. I'm probably going to end up with a set of Ping i20's so bending the lie angles is a pain in the butt. I'm working on flattening coming into impact and I'm not sure if I should get the clubs in the range where I want to end up (and how much) or where I am currently?

I currently have a set of Ping i15's (0.75 degrees upright). I've been working hard on flattening my plane into impact and I feel as if I'm progressing quite nicely. I've been noticing my ball slowly but surely going left more and more; turning into a straightish pull shot, not catastrophically so, but enough to make me think my lie angles may be too upright.  

I'm a shortish fellow at 5'9 (35" wrist to floor). Given the fact that guys like Bradley Hughes and Geoff Jones advocate flatter lie angles, what should I do? Go like 3 or 4 degrees flat and grow into the clubs? I can't help but think my progress is being retarded due to my body coming in steeper than I want it to so I can hit the ball properly.

Hitting the ball properly?.What is your goal to be Iron Bryon(LOL).The simple solution is to delay your fitting,and get an old iron(s) and bend it(them) about 2 or 3 or 4  degrees flatter.Then use this old iron and see if you happier with your progress.

[frikkie5000]

russc, on 03 May 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

frikkie5000, on 03 May 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

I'm going in for a fitting on Monday. I'm probably going to end up with a set of Ping i20's so bending the lie angles is a pain in the butt. I'm working on flattening coming into impact and I'm not sure if I should get the clubs in the range where I want to end up (and how much) or where I am currently?

I currently have a set of Ping i15's (0.75 degrees upright). I've been working hard on flattening my plane into impact and I feel as if I'm progressing quite nicely. I've been noticing my ball slowly but surely going left more and more; turning into a straightish pull shot, not catastrophically so, but enough to make me think my lie angles may be too upright.  

I'm a shortish fellow at 5'9 (35" wrist to floor). Given the fact that guys like Bradley Hughes and Geoff Jones advocate flatter lie angles, what should I do? Go like 3 or 4 degrees flat and grow into the clubs? I can't help but think my progress is being retarded due to my body coming in steeper than I want it to so I can hit the ball properly.

Hitting the ball properly?.What is your goal to be Iron Bryon(LOL).The simple solution is to delay your fitting,and get an old iron(s) and bend it(them) about 2 or 3 or 4  degrees flatter.Then use this old iron and see if you happier with your progress.

I'm not working this hard to become the best golfer in the world. I've always dreamt of being a professional club tester....parking in the members only area with my Ducati...strolling down the driving range with my aviator sunglasses and the Top Gun theme playing in the background The sonic booms of the ball coming of the clubface...



Until I can figure out where I want my lie angles to be the prudent thing to do would be to not buy anything. Guess the club ho' in me will have to sit tight for a while, maybe I'll buy a swing jacket to keep him distracted.

I think  I'll bend my set of old Forged 300's to varying degrees of flatness and see how they mess up my swing and take it from there. They have Royal Precision 5.5's in them but what the hell..... I'll just have to slow my hips down a tad so I can get my 6 iron swing speed down to 120 mph.
When I originally got the Ping i15's I thought they were purple dots. Turns out they weren't purple after all

[Jacob Mac]

I bought an old set of blades for about $30 and bent them super flat.  My thought was to see how flat I needed/wanted.  I wanted a set that complimented the swing I was working towards, not the swing I have.  What I learned was that I love really flat and heavy clubs.  And having flat clubs really promoted the swing changes I am working on.  I went out and shot two of the best rounds of my life with those old worn out blades.  I would not have been so brave if I had been plunking down a ton of money on cast clubs that could not be bent more than a couple of degrees.

I am still going to get a new set at the specs I have now.  But I am not in a huge rush as these old blades are treating me pretty well atm.

[ej002]

To the OP - don't get crazy with the PINGs, their lies are different.

First - I agree with Jacob, get some old blades and bend the snot out of them to you feel comfortable, then get the PINGS.  But be careful, I did this with a set of Titleists and I was going to get my PINGs 3-4 flat (I was matching the PING lies with my Titleist lies by subtratcting the color code from the online chart and using the measurements from the mitchell used to bend the titleists to match).  Thankfully, I picked up a used set of Ping purple dots off ebay (which PING calls 1.5 flat) and they are almost dead nuts the same as my Titleists. I was expecting to get Orange or even Brown (3 flat). I was wrong... PING uses a digital machine and not a mitchell to measure loft, and on top of that black dots are a little flatter than standard. Soo.. be careful.

FWIW - I am the same hight as you, but I think my arms a bit longer.  I don't put much stock in that though.  I started my whole life with PING black dots, when to Red.  Then I bent the Titleists and thought I was REALLY flat.  Turns out I just got to Purple, lol.  I do have my shorter irons bent to orange.

Sorry for the book.  But my advice is don't over do it with the PINGs.  Go with Red or Purple and go from there.

Edited by ej002, 03 May 2012 - 04:40 PM.

[CallawayLefty]

I like the idea of fitting the swing to lie angles rather than lie angles to swing (YMMV).  After starting up with slicefixer back in September, I had my clubs bent all the way from 2* up to standard, then two weeks later to 2.5* flat.  As a chronic early extender, all of the "professional" club fitters (i.e. the knucklehead 22 year olds at the golf store) would "fit" me with the lie board and tape into upright angles.  As a result of my swing faults, my miss, however, was a monster hook, and those lie angles did nothing to help me with that and actually encouraged me to continue making that incorrect move.  Since I took my lie angles flatter, I have noticed that my swing has flattened out significantly.  Of course, that's a result of swing changes more than lie angles, but at least my clubs aren't standing in the way of making that progress.  

I really like the emerging school of clubfitting (Bradley Hughes, Slicefixer, and many others that I have read) that tends to lean toward putting the clubs where they should be and changing your swing accordingly.  They almost start to function as training aids that steer you in the right direction.  And lie angles only make so much of a difference - I would submit that the "learning curve" for adjusting to a 2* bend in either direction is probably not as steep as you might imagine.  One suggestion is to go with clubs that are very easily bendable - I have Mizuno MP-53s, and they are (per my clubfitter) very easy to move around.    

By the way, I'm looking to go another degree or two down with mine.  I have heard people going as much as 6 or 7 for truly trying to flatten things out.

[QMany]

CallawayLefty, on 03 May 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

I like the idea of fitting the swing to lie angles rather than lie angles to swing (YMMV).  After starting up with slicefixer back in September, I had my clubs bent all the way from 2* up to standard, then two weeks later to 2.5* flat.  As a chronic early extender, all of the "professional" club fitters (i.e. the knucklehead 22 year olds at the golf store) would "fit" me with the lie board and tape into upright angles.  As a result of my swing faults, my miss, however, was a monster hook, and those lie angles did nothing to help me with that and actually encouraged me to continue making that incorrect move.  Since I took my lie angles flatter, I have noticed that my swing has flattened out significantly.  Of course, that's a result of swing changes more than lie angles, but at least my clubs aren't standing in the way of making that progress.  

I really like the emerging school of clubfitting (Bradley Hughes, Slicefixer, and many others that I have read) that tends to lean toward putting the clubs where they should be and changing your swing accordingly.  They almost start to function as training aids that steer you in the right direction.  And lie angles only make so much of a difference - I would submit that the "learning curve" for adjusting to a 2* bend in either direction is probably not as steep as you might imagine.  One suggestion is to go with clubs that are very easily bendable - I have Mizuno MP-53s, and they are (per my clubfitter) very easy to move around.    

By the way, I'm looking to go another degree or two down with mine.  I have heard people going as much as 6 or 7 for truly trying to flatten things out.

Exactly what I wanted to hear.

I've been working with Geoff for 2.5 months now and need to go flatter. I've been putting it off because I don't want to go a few days without my clubs. I have PING green dot (2.25 upright) and am probably going to go down to standard (or maybe more) with this first change. I am going to send odds to PING and then send evens when I get them back so I don't have to go 4-5 days without hitting the range.

[Cwebb]

Do a static lie check with your ideal posture.  If at address the toe is sticking up more than just "slightly", then in all likelyhood it's too upright for what you're looking to move towards with your swing work.

Nobody should ever set up in their ideal address and have the heel up.... and this coud very well happen for some, if they just took the advice of (2-4 flatter) and ran with it.  That doesn't make sense even for the best of ballstrikers.

What we're looking for is an ideal address position and then if we "plane" the shaft back through very close to where it started, to have the lie fit/promote this.

Edited by Cwebb, 03 May 2012 - 05:15 PM.

[CallawayLefty]

QMany, on 03 May 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Exactly what I wanted to hear.

I've been working with Geoff for 2.5 months now and need to go flatter. I've been putting it off because I don't want to go a few days without my clubs. I have PING green dot (2.25 upright) and am probably going to go down to standard (or maybe more) with this first change. I am going to send odds to PING and then send evens when I get them back so I don't have to go 4-5 days without hitting the range.

I was very happy with the change and noticed instantaneous results.  My clubs are overlength, flat, D7 swingweight, and have midsize grips +1 wrap.  I went to a demo day recently - I literally cannot hit off the rack clubs anymore.  I was hitting a new vokey wedge with a 20 yard pull hook, and it felt like a ladies club to me.  I really really buy in to the flat, heavy, big grip school of clubfitting.  It's certainly ended my days of club ho-ing because it makes it almost impossible to pick something up off the rack and like the feel of it.  I think my #1 criteria for a new set of irons or wedges at this point (not that I'm in the market) is how easily you can change them to your liking.

[CallawayLefty]

Cwebb, on 03 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Do a static lie check with your ideal posture.  If at address the toe is sticking up more than just "slightly", then in all likelyhood it's too upright for what you're looking to move towards with your swing work.

Nobody should ever set up in their ideal address and have the heel up.... and this coud very well happen, if someone just took the advice of (2-4 flatter) and ran with it.  That doesn't make sense even for the best of ballstrikers.

Some would argue that if your heel is off the ground at 2* flat on modern clubs, your "ideal" posture might be "not ideal."  And where it sits when you're just standing there matters 0 to where it sits when it's striking the ball.  It's not about getting the heel off the ground, it's about getting everything else in the position (i.e. your swing) that you're hitting it squarely with that lie angle.

That said, this is very much an area of personal preference and can vary wildly based on what you're trying to accomplish.

[tembolo1284]

QMany, on 03 May 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

CallawayLefty, on 03 May 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

I like the idea of fitting the swing to lie angles rather than lie angles to swing (YMMV).  After starting up with slicefixer back in September, I had my clubs bent all the way from 2* up to standard, then two weeks later to 2.5* flat.  As a chronic early extender, all of the "professional" club fitters (i.e. the knucklehead 22 year olds at the golf store) would "fit" me with the lie board and tape into upright angles.  As a result of my swing faults, my miss, however, was a monster hook, and those lie angles did nothing to help me with that and actually encouraged me to continue making that incorrect move.  Since I took my lie angles flatter, I have noticed that my swing has flattened out significantly.  Of course, that's a result of swing changes more than lie angles, but at least my clubs aren't standing in the way of making that progress.  

I really like the emerging school of clubfitting (Bradley Hughes, Slicefixer, and many others that I have read) that tends to lean toward putting the clubs where they should be and changing your swing accordingly.  They almost start to function as training aids that steer you in the right direction.  And lie angles only make so much of a difference - I would submit that the "learning curve" for adjusting to a 2* bend in either direction is probably not as steep as you might imagine.  One suggestion is to go with clubs that are very easily bendable - I have Mizuno MP-53s, and they are (per my clubfitter) very easy to move around.    

By the way, I'm looking to go another degree or two down with mine.  I have heard people going as much as 6 or 7 for truly trying to flatten things out.

Exactly what I wanted to hear.

I've been working with Geoff for 2.5 months now and need to go flatter. I've been putting it off because I don't want to go a few days without my clubs. I have PING green dot (2.25 upright) and am probably going to go down to standard (or maybe more) with this first change. I am going to send odds to PING and then send evens when I get them back so I don't have to go 4-5 days without hitting the range.

You'll be 7 degrees flat in no time y0!

[Cwebb]

CallawayLefty, on 03 May 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Cwebb, on 03 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Do a static lie check with your ideal posture.  If at address the toe is sticking up more than just "slightly", then in all likelyhood it's too upright for what you're looking to move towards with your swing work.

Nobody should ever set up in their ideal address and have the heel up.... and this coud very well happen, if someone just took the advice of (2-4 flatter) and ran with it.  That doesn't make sense even for the best of ballstrikers.

Some would argue that if your heel is off the ground at 2* flat on modern clubs, your "ideal" posture might be "not ideal."  And where it sits when you're just standing there matters 0 to where it sits when it's striking the ball.  It's not about getting the heel off the ground, it's about getting everything else in the position (i.e. your swing) that you're hitting it squarely with that lie angle.

That said, this is very much an area of personal preference and can vary wildly based on what you're trying to accomplish.

That's right.  If one doesn't know what their ideal posture is that works for the swing that they're working towards, then this method won't work very well.

Lots of player post videos of their swing.  Some could also post pics of their address and static lie angles as well.  Put your digital camera on the ground out in front of you at address, looking back at the clubface.  Post a pic and we'll give opinions

Edited by Cwebb, 03 May 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[kellygreen]

frikkie5000, on 03 May 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

I'm going in for a fitting on Monday. I'm probably going to end up with a set of Ping i20's so bending the lie angles is a pain in the butt. I'm working on flattening coming into impact and I'm not sure if I should get the clubs in the range where I want to end up (and how much) or where I am currently?

I currently have a set of Ping i15's (0.75 degrees upright). I've been working hard on flattening my plane into impact and I feel as if I'm progressing quite nicely. I've been noticing my ball slowly but surely going left more and more; turning into a straightish pull shot, not catastrophically so, but enough to make me think my lie angles may be too upright.  

I'm a shortish fellow at 5'9 (35" wrist to floor). Given the fact that guys like Bradley Hughes and Geoff Jones advocate flatter lie angles, what should I do? Go like 3 or 4 degrees flat and grow into the clubs? I can't help but think my progress is being retarded due to my body coming in steeper than I want it to so I can hit the ball properly.

Why do you think you would need clubs that are that flat?

Have you had your swing videotaped and confirmed that you are coming into the ball at an excessively steep angle?

I'm only an inch taller than you, and have played Ping blue dots in a set of i10s and S56s....and have the sort of body rotation swing that Slicefixer advocates. I play Titleist standard length-and-lie in my current clubs.  

You might indeed need a slightly flatter lie angle as you find your ideal swing plane....but there is no reason that I can think of  why ---as a relatively average sized adult--- you would need lie angles that are 3* or 4* flat.

Edited by kellygreen, 03 May 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[golfsavvy]

Interesting.  13 years ago I was fltting flatter than everyone, teaching a rotary swing that was flatter than everyone.  My boss asked me at the time why I was always flatter than everyone else's fit.  I said I'd be happy to show him, and darned if he didn't suggest that I become like everyone else.  No chance of that.....

[bortass]

It depends. If you know you want flatter and how much then get the Pings where you want them, maybe risky. Or get a set of older clubs that can be bent however you like and once you find the right numbers have the Pings built to match like others suggest. I'd go the old club route if you bending the Pings is a pain.

  I went from +5 upright Feb, 2011 to -2 flat, Dec 2011. It had nothing to do with a static fitting. it was based on where the pro I work with wanted my swing to go. The irons were bent 3 times, to +3, +0, then -2. I expect they will be bent even flatter at some point. Why use upright clubs if you are trying to flatten your swing? So I followed the same path as CallaywayLefty.

[Gbyeball]

You cannot match apples to oranges. If you buy some old club to determine your correct lie angle it will only be for that club. Unless the head weight, shaft length, shaft make and flex and swing weight is the same as the Ping ( very doubtful ) you will not accomplish anything but have that old club dialed in for you. If you don't believe me go check out the club making forum and a post about KBS shafts giving some people fits with digging ( fat shots) because of droop. I have a number of iron sets with different shafts and I use a very good club builder, we set the lies on each individual club in the set. I can tell you I have a difference of 3* between a set of r7 TP with Nippon shafts ( soft and drooppy) and MP32 with DGS300 shaft. Both set up dead nuts on lie board testing and hit the ball straight. Static fitting is a starting point but how you load the shaft determines actual lie angle through impact.

Just my 2 cents

[Cwebb]

bortass, on 03 May 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

  I went from +5 upright Feb, 2011 to -2 flat, Dec 2011. It had nothing to do with a static fitting. it was based on where the pro I work with wanted my swing to go. The irons were bent 3 times, to +3, +0, then -2. I expect they will be bent even flatter at some point. Why use upright clubs if you are trying to flatten your swing? So I followed the same path as CallaywayLefty.

At some point within that 7* lie spread, you were at address with the club nowhere close to where it should ideally start, in order to promote a good swing plane.  Lets assume that the 2 flat that you currently play is not sitting with the heel up.  

With this in mind, when you were playing 5* upright, a club fitter who also understands the swing and what lie angle will promote, would not have static fit you into a club with the toe sticking that far up at address....if you explained before the fitting that you don't want your swing progress to be held back by an excessive lie compensation.

[frikkie5000]

Cwebb, on 03 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Do a static lie check with your ideal posture.  If at address the toe is sticking up more than just "slightly", then in all likelyhood it's too upright for what you're looking to move towards with your swing work.

Nobody should ever set up in their ideal address and have the heel up.... and this coud very well happen for some, if they just took the advice of (2-4 flatter) and ran with it.  That doesn't make sense even for the best of ballstrikers.

What we're looking for is an ideal address position and then if we "plane" the shaft back through very close to where it started, to have the lie fit/promote this.

With the blue dots I can stick a credit card about 3/4 of the way to the heel when inserted underneath the club from the toe side. I made a point not to adjust my hands at address to get the club flush with the ground, but the toe is definitely sticking up quite a bit and it looks weird the more I think about it. The problem is, I think I might be coming in steeper than I intend to in order to compensate but until I hit flatter clubs I won't be 100% sure, maybe its just a swing error.

I had my Scotty bent 3 degrees flat and it felt way more comfortable.

Thanks everyone. Great advice, as always.

[Cwebb]

frikkie5000, on 04 May 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Cwebb, on 03 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Do a static lie check with your ideal posture.  If at address the toe is sticking up more than just "slightly", then in all likelyhood it's too upright for what you're looking to move towards with your swing work.

Nobody should ever set up in their ideal address and have the heel up.... and this coud very well happen for some, if they just took the advice of (2-4 flatter) and ran with it.  That doesn't make sense even for the best of ballstrikers.

What we're looking for is an ideal address position and then if we "plane" the shaft back through very close to where it started, to have the lie fit/promote this.

With the blue dots I can stick a credit card about 3/4 of the way to the heel when inserted underneath the club from the toe side. I made a point not to adjust my hands at address to get the club flush with the ground, but the toe is definitely sticking up quite a bit and it looks weird the more I think about it. The problem is, I think I might be coming in steeper than I intend to in order to compensate but until I hit flatter clubs I won't be 100% sure, maybe its just a swing error.

I had my Scotty bent 3 degrees flat and it felt way more comfortable.

Thanks everyone. Great advice, as always.

It sounds like you could go down at least 2* from there. Very possibly more.  See if you can address about a 2* flat club from Ping and check it static.

[sdbadd]

Cwebb, on 04 May 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

frikkie5000, on 04 May 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Cwebb, on 03 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Do a static lie check with your ideal posture.  If at address the toe is sticking up more than just "slightly", then in all likelyhood it's too upright for what you're looking to move towards with your swing work.

Nobody should ever set up in their ideal address and have the heel up.... and this coud very well happen for some, if they just took the advice of (2-4 flatter) and ran with it.  That doesn't make sense even for the best of ballstrikers.

What we're looking for is an ideal address position and then if we "plane" the shaft back through very close to where it started, to have the lie fit/promote this.

With the blue dots I can stick a credit card about 3/4 of the way to the heel when inserted underneath the club from the toe side. I made a point not to adjust my hands at address to get the club flush with the ground, but the toe is definitely sticking up quite a bit and it looks weird the more I think about it. The problem is, I think I might be coming in steeper than I intend to in order to compensate but until I hit flatter clubs I won't be 100% sure, maybe its just a swing error.

I had my Scotty bent 3 degrees flat and it felt way more comfortable.

Thanks everyone. Great advice, as always.

It sounds like you could go down at least 2* from there. Very possibly more.  See if you can address about a 2* flat club from Ping and check it static.

How much should the toe stick up during a static lie test?  I guess it will depend on the club as a longer iron will have more tow droop than a wedge.

[bortass]

Cwebb, on 03 May 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

bortass, on 03 May 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

  I went from +5 upright Feb, 2011 to -2 flat, Dec 2011. It had nothing to do with a static fitting. it was based on where the pro I work with wanted my swing to go. The irons were bent 3 times, to +3, +0, then -2. I expect they will be bent even flatter at some point. Why use upright clubs if you are trying to flatten your swing? So I followed the same path as CallaywayLefty.

At some point within that 7* lie spread, you were at address with the club nowhere close to where it should ideally start, in order to promote a good swing plane.  Lets assume that the 2 flat that you currently play is not sitting with the heel up.  

With this in mind, when you were playing 5* upright, a club fitter who also understands the swing and what lie angle will promote, would not have static fit you into a club with the toe sticking that far up at address....if you explained before the fitting that you don't want your swing progress to be held back by an excessive lie compensation.

  The clubs were +5 from when I bought them after a fitting a number of years ago and it was from hitting off a lie board. This was maybe 3 years after I started playing. Severely OTT, bad swing, I had no clue. I finally got rechecked last year, 7 years later, and that fitter changed it to +3. I then went to 0 then -2 w/o a dynamic fit. All the years of hitting +5 ingrained a very upright swing. I'll probably be going flatter again at some point but no hurry.

[frikkie5000]

Cwebb, on 04 May 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

frikkie5000, on 04 May 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Cwebb, on 03 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Do a static lie check with your ideal posture.  If at address the toe is sticking up more than just "slightly", then in all likelyhood it's too upright for what you're looking to move towards with your swing work.

Nobody should ever set up in their ideal address and have the heel up.... and this coud very well happen for some, if they just took the advice of (2-4 flatter) and ran with it.  That doesn't make sense even for the best of ballstrikers.

What we're looking for is an ideal address position and then if we "plane" the shaft back through very close to where it started, to have the lie fit/promote this.

With the blue dots I can stick a credit card about 3/4 of the way to the heel when inserted underneath the club from the toe side. I made a point not to adjust my hands at address to get the club flush with the ground, but the toe is definitely sticking up quite a bit and it looks weird the more I think about it. The problem is, I think I might be coming in steeper than I intend to in order to compensate but until I hit flatter clubs I won't be 100% sure, maybe its just a swing error.

I had my Scotty bent 3 degrees flat and it felt way more comfortable.

Thanks everyone. Great advice, as always.

It sounds like you could go down at least 2* from there. Very possibly more.  See if you can address about a 2* flat club from Ping and check it static.

Would it be correct to state that a static fit will give an indication as to the flattest that your lie angle should be?

[Cwebb]

frikkie5000, on 05 May 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

Would it be correct to state that a static fit will give an indication as to the flattest that your lie angle should be?

I wouldn't go that far with the statement, but it's close.  I would say that as long as you know what your ideal setup is for the swing that you're working on, a static fit can usually be within 1* of where your ideal lie angle should be in order to promote good swing angles.

Give yourself 1* or so to work with, with the toe slightly up at address in a static fit,....then later on if you prove to yourself with the "Sharpie method" that you can return to impact and need a flatter lie angle, then just about any club (including Pings) can be adjusted that much.

Keep in mind that there are some players using very flat lie angles, who are not necassarily returning to impact with the center of the sole square to the ground.  In other words, some use lie to bias ball flight and minimize the left side and pulls/draws.  

Personally, I'm not a believer in going flatter than what a good static fit shows where you should at least start to help promote good swing angles.  This means I don't want to see the sole sitting dead center at address and certainly don't want to see the heel up more than the toe.

BTW, 1* is about 1/4" of "sole touch" one way or the other.

Edited by Cwebb, 05 May 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[frikkie5000]

I spent about two hours hitting clubs today at the fitter. Hitting the balls on a real range so you can see the ball fly is so much better than hitting into a stupid net. I am very impressed with the i20's. The fitter said I shouldn't be too concerned with the spin as the range balls usually spin a bit less. I hit 25 balls with the i20's and 25 balls with the i15's (the stats below are the average for the two clubs). The flatter lie in the i20's felt a bit weird at first and immediately started hitting the ball right a bit more. After about 10 balls or so I was hitting the ball like a tracer bullet. I think for now I'll stick with the red dots, since there is a pretty significant jump from red to purple.

Ping i20's (red dot):
Carry: 176 m
Lateral: 3.0 R
Club Speed: 85.2
Ball speed: 116.7
Smash: 1.38
Back: 3366
Side spin: 58
Launch Angle: 18.3

Ping i15's (blue dot):
Carry: 163 m
Lateral: 0.6 R
Club Speed: 86.2
Ball Speed: 116.3
Smash: 1.35
Back Spin: 4722
Side: 162
Launch Angle: 15.5

[QMany]

Very interesting numbers. Thank you very much for that.

I've been trying to plan the best time to send my clubs to PING so I don't have be too long without my clubs.

[larrybud]

I was told by a TrackMan guy that range balls spin more! lol

What club are these #'s for?

[frikkie5000]

larrybud, on 07 May 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

I was told by a TrackMan guy that range balls spin more! lol

What club are these #'s for?

These numbers are for the 7 iron. I normally hit ball the quite low but its not as if I'm running through the green or anything so I do know these spin numbers might be the ball. The red dot has my club sitting flush with the ground without having to alter my setup. Felt great after I got a bit more comfortable, and, incidentally, my ball went pretty damn straight.

[glofman]

Would love spin rate like your , mine was between 7500-9000 with my 7 iron !! swing speed 92/95 mph
Carrying 140 yds ..

Pro could not help me get spin rate down !!!