32 replies to this topic

[acpar72]

5th head I have cracked in my golfing career.  Kudos to TM for agreeing to send a new one.  Dont have a driver though!

[rainkingjr]

acpar72, on 01 May 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

5th head I have cracked in my golfing career.  Kudos to TM for agreeing to send a new one.  Dont have a driver though!

Junk!! Just kidding, every manufacturer has a dud slip through fro time to time. It's when you crack the same model three times in a row that it's a problem. I did that with an Adams 303 stainless a long time ago. That really was junk. Good job TM for making it right.

[ayotte2]

A guy in my group cracked his G2 Ping Driver. They replaced it with a G15 for a minimal (like 75 bucks) amount since it was out of warranty While waiting for the G15, he bought an R9 and cracked it in about 2 weeks. TM stepped up and sent him a new one but jeez, he hits it with a fair amount of clubhead speed but 2 weeks? He has since got an R11 and cracked it too. A couple months after he got it. Is there a pattern here? One would have to think so.

[Colej]

rainkingjr, on 01 May 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

acpar72, on 01 May 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

5th head I have cracked in my golfing career.  Kudos to TM for agreeing to send a new one.  Dont have a driver though!

Junk!! Just kidding, every manufacturer has a dud slip through fro time to time. It's when you crack the same model three times in a row that it's a problem. I did that with an Adams 303 stainless a long time ago. That really was junk. Good job TM for making it right.

I cracked the same Adams head as well! I actually liked the driver though.

[kenziegolf]

I have a guy I play with that has cracked two RBZ Tours.

[acpar72]

kenziegolf, on 02 May 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

I have a guy I play with that has cracked two RBZ Tours.

I am thinking that it will not be the last RBZ Tour I crack either.

[Cartrydge]

acpar72, on 02 May 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

kenziegolf, on 02 May 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

I have a guy I play with that has cracked two RBZ Tours.

I am thinking that it will not be the last RBZ Tour I crack either.

Trying using golf balls instead of pool balls.  Maybe that will fix your issue.

[acpar72]

fuab, on 02 May 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

acpar72, on 02 May 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

kenziegolf, on 02 May 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

I have a guy I play with that has cracked two RBZ Tours.

I am thinking that it will not be the last RBZ Tour I crack either.

Trying using golf balls instead of pool balls.  Maybe that will fix your issue.

Funny

[tomeboy]

Is it cracking on the face when they crack?? Just wondering or could you hear it?

[rainkingjr]

Colej, on 02 May 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

rainkingjr, on 01 May 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

acpar72, on 01 May 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

5th head I have cracked in my golfing career.  Kudos to TM for agreeing to send a new one.  Dont have a driver though!

Junk!! Just kidding, every manufacturer has a dud slip through fro time to time. It's when you crack the same model three times in a row that it's a problem. I did that with an Adams 303 stainless a long time ago. That really was junk. Good job TM for making it right.

I cracked the same Adams head as well! I actually liked the driver though.

Pretty sure that Adams driver was an experiment gone horribly wrong for them. They were essentially trying to produce a steel driver to titamium tolerances as far as face thickness. Can't be done. Titanium is much stronger.

[Ri_Redneck]

tomeboy, on 02 May 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Is it cracking on the face when they crack?? Just wondering or could you hear it?

I'm curious about this too.  Please describe the location of the crack and if the sound of impact was the first indication there was a problem.

BT

[acpar72]

Ri_Redneck, on 03 May 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

tomeboy, on 02 May 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Is it cracking on the face when they crack?? Just wondering or could you hear it?

I'm curious about this too.  Please describe the location of the crack and if the sound of impact was the first indication there was a problem.

BT

Small crack about 1/4 inch above center of face.  Didnt see it right away, next tee shot sounded super loud (even louder than normal) and when I looked at the face in the sunlight I saw the crack and dent.

[JSouth]

I dented in the face of R11 and then R11s, the dent on both of my small place, in between the center of the face and the toe. On my 2nd R11s, this one is holding up well so far.

[wcbjr]

Were these cracks and dents from hitting range balls?

[ghromas]

Hey OP- what kind of balls are you playing?  Do you hit a lot of range balls?

[TomWishon]

acpar72, on 01 May 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

5th head I have cracked in my golfing career.  Kudos to TM for agreeing to send a new one.  Dont have a driver though!

I get the impression there seem to be a number of posters who think that cracked clubheads should never happen or that they indicate some question of quality of a head model or a company.  

When you design and manufacture high performance, thin walled, high COR clubheads, you are walking on the edge of failure with every head you produce because the tolerances for all the wall thicknesses are so thin and there is a lot of welding that has to be done with a high level of precision on all these heads.  And all that has to be done within a very strict budget because there is a limit to what a golfer will pay for a club.  

Statistics known by designers and product development people from working with head production factories indicate that within such high performance clubheads, if the failure rate is more than 1/4 of 1%, that is more than what should be seen and something is wrong.  If you get your failure rate to be less than 1/8 of 1%, that is considered to be really, really good.  

Obviously, the higher the clubhead speed of the golfer using the heads, the more stress is put on the heads and the more chance for failure.  This is the obvious reason why people with clubhead speeds north of 110-120mph see more head cracks and failures than those with more normal head speeds.  But no matter what, it is possible for a head to fail for a slower swing speed too, if that head just happened to have a mistake in the attachment of one of its construction parts.  

The misperception comes from golfers who happen to get that ONE head out of 500, 600, 700, 800 or 1000 that happens to fail.  You didn't see the other 499, 599, 699, 799 or 999 heads that go on repeatedly pounding the ball down the fairway so when YOUR clubhead cracks, it is easy for you to think the company has a problem or something is amiss.  For companies to reduce failure rates substantially from the norm would cause the price of production to increase dramatically such that fewer people would buy new clubs.  

The golf industry does not X-ray its welds as does the aerospace industry because for one, people's lives are not at stake in the event of a welding line failure in golf - and because such additional inspections just are not cost effective in the face of the normal statistics for head failure and what the market will bear for the cost of golf clubs.  

Believe me, there is not one designer or product development manager who does not cringe or get nauseated when they hear about failed heads.  I certainly do when they happen to my designs.  We all know you golfers think badly of us and our companies when the law of averages camps on your doorstep and makes you one of the statistics.  

Seriously, making high performance, thin face, high COR, multi material clubheads is a real challenge when you think about the many production steps that all have to be done with very high precision and very tight tolerances - and then when you think about the stress to which these heads can and are subjected.   But that's the tightrope we all have to walk to be able to provide high performance, thin face, high COR, multi material clubheads for golfers.  

In the golf equipment industry, there are head production factories that a designer will NEVER EVER consider for making high performance, thin face, high COR, multi material clubheads because you know that is not their strength and expertise.  When you find a factory that can do this, you tend to camp on their doorstep for your high performance designs and you sometimes lose a little sleep hoping they don't develop problems in their day to day operation that might adversely affect the production failure rate.

In short, it is REALLY difficult to produce high performance clubheads with the utmost consistency and I think most golfers just don't appreciate the skill that takes.  I know in my case I would never want to change jobs with the guys who manage production in these head making factories.  That's like keeping 100 plates spinning all at the same time and always watching for the next one that's about to wobble and fall.  

So the next time you get a head failure, just shrug it off and go through the inconvenience of asking the company for a replacement.  All good companies will never question you and will always work hard to get that replacement in your hands as soon as possible.  

TOM

[floycota]

I'm a monster, I cracked two heads in three days.  Not really I just got a couple of bad heads.  One Cleveland TL310 and this Adams 12 LS.

[Ri_Redneck]

TomWishon, on 04 May 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

acpar72, on 01 May 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

5th head I have cracked in my golfing career.  Kudos to TM for agreeing to send a new one.  Dont have a driver though!

I get the impression there seem to be a number of posters who think that cracked clubheads should never happen or that they indicate some question of quality of a head model or a company.  

When you design and manufacture high performance, thin walled, high COR clubheads, you are walking on the edge of failure with every head you produce because the tolerances for all the wall thicknesses are so thin and there is a lot of welding that has to be done with a high level of precision on all these heads.  And all that has to be done within a very strict budget because there is a limit to what a golfer will pay for a club.  

Statistics known by designers and product development people from working with head production factories indicate that within such high performance clubheads, if the failure rate is more than 1/4 of 1%, that is more than what should be seen and something is wrong.  If you get your failure rate to be less than 1/8 of 1%, that is considered to be really, really good.  

Obviously, the higher the clubhead speed of the golfer using the heads, the more stress is put on the heads and the more chance for failure.  This is the obvious reason why people with clubhead speeds north of 110-120mph see more head cracks and failures than those with more normal head speeds.  But no matter what, it is possible for a head to fail for a slower swing speed too, if that head just happened to have a mistake in the attachment of one of its construction parts.  

The misperception comes from golfers who happen to get that ONE head out of 500, 600, 700, 800 or 1000 that happens to fail.  You didn't see the other 499, 599, 699, 799 or 999 heads that go on repeatedly pounding the ball down the fairway so when YOUR clubhead cracks, it is easy for you to think the company has a problem or something is amiss.  For companies to reduce failure rates substantially from the norm would cause the price of production to increase dramatically such that fewer people would buy new clubs.  

The golf industry does not X-ray its welds as does the aerospace industry because for one, people's lives are not at stake in the event of a welding line failure in golf - and because such additional inspections just are not cost effective in the face of the normal statistics for head failure and what the market will bear for the cost of golf clubs.  

Believe me, there is not one designer or product development manager who does not cringe or get nauseated when they hear about failed heads.  I certainly do when they happen to my designs.  We all know you golfers think badly of us and our companies when the law of averages camps on your doorstep and makes you one of the statistics.  

Seriously, making high performance, thin face, high COR, multi material clubheads is a real challenge when you think about the many production steps that all have to be done with very high precision and very tight tolerances - and then when you think about the stress to which these heads can and are subjected.   But that's the tightrope we all have to walk to be able to provide high performance, thin face, high COR, multi material clubheads for golfers.  

In the golf equipment industry, there are head production factories that a designer will NEVER EVER consider for making high performance, thin face, high COR, multi material clubheads because you know that is not their strength and expertise.  When you find a factory that can do this, you tend to camp on their doorstep for your high performance designs and you sometimes lose a little sleep hoping they don't develop problems in their day to day operation that might adversely affect the production failure rate.

In short, it is REALLY difficult to produce high performance clubheads with the utmost consistency and I think most golfers just don't appreciate the skill that takes.  I know in my case I would never want to change jobs with the guys who manage production in these head making factories.  That's like keeping 100 plates spinning all at the same time and always watching for the next one that's about to wobble and fall.  

So the next time you get a head failure, just shrug it off and go through the inconvenience of asking the company for a replacement.  All good companies will never question you and will always work hard to get that replacement in your hands as soon as possible.  

TOM

Excellent post!  I remember back when graphite heads were the thing that a lot of the high SS crowd were having head failures right and left.  Same problem.  These players are stressing the heads to their limits and any tiny imperfection will end up as a failure eventually.

With these newer heads, I'm also curious about contact point on the clubface.  For instance, the post above shows a crack along the top of the face.  Many tee the ball quite high these days and tend to contact the ball on the upper half of the clubface predominately. I wonder if the repeated off-center contact can be contributing to the failures.  Also, the OP mentioned that his clubhead was dented near the toe.  Another off-center contact perhaps.  Something to think about. I'd be interested in some ball contact tests done by these guys to see where their regular contact point is.

BT

Edited by Ri_Redneck, 04 May 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[acpar72]

ghromas, on 04 May 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Hey OP- what kind of balls are you playing?  Do you hit a lot of range balls?

Couple of buckets is all. Cracked during a round with PROV1 X

[acpar72]

By no means am I a monster. Sure I go after it like Angel Cabrera, but no monster. I have no problem at all when a head cracks. I just hate the time between having my gamer and not. I am not complaining at all. Just thought I would post it. Thanks Tom

[Ranger Rick]

The cracks being towards the top of the head could suggest that in the quest to move weight and thus making the crown thinner the OEM's may have inadvertently weakened the top of the face. Maybe not in the metals structure but perhaps contact near the top of the face causes more flex and over time the unaccounted for flexing weakens the face. Vertical gear effect might be related to this.

[golferlaird]

I've cracked two Nickent 4dx heads. Dented three.

[notlonuf]

OP what's your SS?

[acpar72]

notlonuf, on 07 May 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

OP what's your SS?

117

[jpalermo]

floycota, on 04 May 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

I'm a monster, I cracked two heads in three days.  Not really I just got a couple of bad heads.  One Cleveland TL310 and this Adams 12 LS.

I Have a dent in that same spot on my RBZ HL, hasn't cracked yet though.

[caradz]

picture of the RBZ?

[AtlBomber]

that sucks

[jpalermo]

[acpar72]

Cracked my brand new R11s today. Same spot as the RBZ tour head. Third hole. third time I swung it. Unbelievable.

[ksavy17]

acpar72, on 07 July 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Cracked my brand new R11s today. Same spot as the RBZ tour head. Third hole. third time I swung it. Unbelievable.

seriously, what golf balls are you using????