162 replies to this topic

[KYMAR]

I understand completely the frustration when someone comes down on you when your clubs have nothing to do with the topic. However, you got this ball rolling by posting a new thread about your experience. And as much as you wanted it to be about the proper decorum that should be used in any discussion here, there is no denying that in the first 5 or 6 paragraphs of the OP you were setting the ground work for a defense of a 17 playing blades. I am not sure how else anyone is supposed to interpret the whole "can't tell a persons talent from handicap alone" stuff. Plus, i am entirely unfamiliar with the other thread if that matters.

Edited by KYMAR, 02 May 2012 - 01:29 AM.

[Thrillhouse]

Aithos and Kymar, you two are both really good posters and I like both of you a lot. You both are making good points in this thread, but i'd hate to see it deteriorate.

So in the words of the illustrious Rodney King:

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?!?

[KYMAR]

Thrillhouse, on 01 May 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

Aithos and Kymar, you two are both really good posters and I like both of you a lot. You both are making good points in this thread, but i'd hate to see it deteriorate.

So in the words of the illustrious Rodney King:

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?!?

Howard Jones, your thoughts?

[Thrillhouse]

KYMAR, on 02 May 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Thrillhouse, on 01 May 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

Aithos and Kymar, you two are both really good posters and I like both of you a lot. You both are making good points in this thread, but i'd hate to see it deteriorate.

So in the words of the illustrious Rodney King:

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?!?

Howard Jones, your thoughts?

LOL, you could ask the slicefixer crew the same question.

cmon KYMAR, im trying to help you guys out here!

[anth]

I posted in the other thread because I questioned the notion that GI irons were somehow less accurate than blades.  OP replied with a link to an article written by someone who used to work at Hogan.  No statistical data, no science to back it up.  

Ok. Whatever. I'm really not that fussed by it TBH.

But my question is this.  Blades require consistency more than anything else. Consistency of the strike at impact. It doesn't matter how the club gets there, as long as the swing is consistent and repeatable.

How can someone playing off 18, who struggles off the tee regardless of the club in hand, somehow find the consistency with an iron in hand?  How can you repeat one type of swing but not even get close with another?  What changes in terms of the consistency of impact?

This is where the handicap is a good indication of ball striking ability.  Better than any other measurement that I can think of. Without seeing firsthand, it's the best indication.  I've never seen a 17 handicap hit the ball like a 7 handicapper on a consistent basis.  Their best shot may be as good, but their bad shots are worse and more frequent.  The consistency is not there

If the consistency were there, then that person would be a low marker and not a 17.  Regardless of how bad a putter they are.

[MelloYello]

Not exactly John Galt's speech, but great points!

I think people are overly sensitive and lie because of it. In many ways, the internet is no different from the 'real' world in terms of basic psychology although I profess no intimate or formal knowledge of the subject!  Nevertheless, anyone perceiving reality can say many individuals hide, inflate or simply blur their own abilities and rather than accept that others have perspective and knowledge they could benefit from gaining, they generally act as though they already have that knowledge in an attempt not to feel subordinate...ego.  

I'll be the first to say that I'd rather be honest but that I don't think it's always necessary to 'quantify' yourself in an attempt to justify your opinions because as you pointed out, information can be correct from the mouth of a 20 handicap or a 2. For example though, I don't know the feeling of shooting sub par...yet. I don't know what my handicap is but it's probably between an 8 and 12. On good days I shoot between 75 and 80 and on bad days I'm in the low to mid 80s. I don't play enough 'full' rounds or play on a large enough selection of courses to feel like my handicap would be exceptionally accurate however nor do I practice enough to feel like my handicap would mean much to me. Playing the same course over and over in my view leads to a lower handicap than one would realistically have elsewhere. If I cared purely about my current handicap, I'd practice putting about 10x more than I do. I don't care about my current handicap at all though relative to my future handicap. I simply care more now to put the other pieces of my (long/short) game together to provide a basis for the eventual realization of my performance. I would rate my current putting for example as sufficient to maintain a 5-10 handicap however my focus is necessarily on improving the things which can more drastically inflate my score given that I don't play golf full-time nor do I play every chance I get.

If folks wouldn't feel pressured (even on the internet) to lie or hide the ugliness in their games I think we'd all not only express ourselves better and feel more joyful for having done so but we'd also be able to establish a much more positive, informative, enlightened and helpful community for having less presuppositions in place about 'what others will think of me.'

Furthermore, there is a sort of paradox in that the smaller your problems the less you want to shine the light of 'public' knowledge on them yet large flaws are considered 'so bad' they are not to be ashamed of. People will admit to shanking because it's clearly so bad a mistake that their other shots by comparison are unquestionably better and because they know competent players who've struggled with the problem but conversely, they are shockingly reluctant to admit small faults which creep into their games much more universally which could openly be discussed here such as an inability to relieve tension from their swings, quieting their lower body, footwork, balance, swing length, etc.

I think the next great society will embrace transparency or at least have reason to accept it without a fight.

Edited by MelloYello, 02 May 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Llortamaisey]

MelloYello, on 02 May 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Not exactly John Galt's speech, but great points!

Who is John Galt?

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

[Aithos]

No worries Thrillhouse, I don't have a problem with anything Kymar is saying.  I can understand where he got his opinion from and he is free to have it, he isn't being a jerk about it so we are all good.  He even acknowledged what I was saying which was one of the big points I made earlier lol.

Anth, I know you have trouble understanding the idea.  I don't believe most 17s should be playing blades, I agree they (as a whole) are not consistent ballstrikers.  My point is you can't go from that conclusion to none of them are good ballstrikers.  I believe people think blades are a *lot* harder to hit than they are, I feel my blades are easier to hit than the Walter Hagen cavity backs that were in my last set.  This is also a time where a lot of people are playing 3 and 4 hybrids, so we are mainly talking about 5-6i as being the "long" irons.  I learned on blades, and my last set was 7-pw blades, nearly my entire golf "life" I've played blades.

Also, my personal problem is twofold:  1) I struggle with my driver, 2) mentally I've lost confidence in the teebox and recovery shots when I miss the fairway.  I have a really hard time hitting low shots under or around trees and a lot of it is mental, I strike the ball well but clip branches or hit right into the stupid trees.  The other factor is what is your miss, mine is nearly always thin where a GI iron won't help me.  I almost never hit off the toe or heel.

I honestly didn't make this thread to become a discussion about blades though, I don't want it to turn into that.  I appreciate the comments people have left here.  If you want to discuss it further with me send me a PM, I don't what this thread to deteriorate either!

[Aithos]

Not that this matters at all, but I'm also not going to be a 17 in another month.  I just need a few more rounds to get rid of the 100+ ones I shot at the start of the year when I hadn't played in 3 years.  If you people are actually interested in my game I have a progress thread under my name in the instruction and academy area.  I have had some really good 9 hole rounds recently so if I can straighten out the driver (made some progress on the range yesterday) and work on the recovery shots I think I'll be able to put together some solid mid 80s rounds.  Not bad for my first month and a half playing, lol

[Kuz013]

Everything mentioned has been beat to death relentlessly on these boards,  nothing new here....move along

[Puppetmaster]

Cliffs?

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

Aithos, on 01 May 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

KYMAR, on 01 May 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

You wrote  "I don't need to justify my purchases to you" As far as i can see, no one asked you to. Yet this entire diatribe seeks to justify your equipment choices because you have taken personal insult from those who suggest that you should be playing something different. And i realize we are just going to have to agree to disagree here, but many of the lower HC's and scratch players suggesting you play something a little more forgiving are speaking from both experience and understanding. Despite what you wrote, and wrote and wrote, if you are a 17 handicapper with solid/repeatable ball striking with your irons then you are truly a statistical marvel. And you also suck bad at chipping and putting. Despite your repeated attempts to convince your readers that they can't extrapolate ones level of talent for the game by HC alone, it's CLEARLY more helpful than useless isn't it? Do you not have an expectation of someones game when you hear their HC, be it 20 or +2?  I read all kinds of claims on this website from guys who make this superior ball striking claim yet I have never met a single guy who expects to go out there and post an 89 while hitting a bunch of greens.  

Instead of using obscure allegory and meandering anecdotes, post up some hard ball striking data. GIR from 140-175 and from 175 -200 etc. Putts per round and total distance of putts made would be telling as well.

Or better yet, play what you want to play and simply ignore those who give you S#!t about playing blades.

I'd offer to track my irons shots/results, recovery shots/results, and my chips/results but I just don't care to expend the effort.  I said I don't need the approval of the Internet or justification from anyone, I made my decision and it has been validated in my own mind.  The point of this whole thing is very simple:  If you want to argue with me you better use some proper logic to do it.  I am tired of people who don't know or don't care about the difference between causality and correlation.  Who don't read posts, don't acknowledge any of the points in previous posts (and still trash later ones).  But what really gets me are the people who call me out and tear me down, and then procede to post THE SAME things I said a page earlier in the thread that they didn't bother to read.  It happens constantly, I'm answering a question someone else brought up and someone else chimes in and flames me.  In the other thread some guy agreed with what I had posted and asked me what I played and what my handicap is...I answered and it turned into a s&%$-storm of retarded.

It takes very little effort to read what someone says, address what they have to say and either 1) agree or 2) disagree.  If you address my ideas and disagree...FINE.  But tell me *WHY* and try to use logic and reasoning to do so.  In this post I posted an example of a legitimate argument against high handicaps using blades.  I made *THEIR* argument for them, but they won't read it so the irony is lost.  I don't care what their opinion is, I really don't.  But if they want to trash my opinion then they better have something to base it on or they're just another stupid troll who has half my IQ and shouldn't be allowed to breed.  But hey, I'm just a guy with an opinion on the internet too.

It's not logical to use blades if you are a 17 handicap.

[farmer]

You don't answer questions, you offer opinions.  Apart from "are balls generally round?" and "do clubs generally have shafts?", there are no definitive answers in golf.  I'm sorry that people don't always agree with your opinions, but that doesn't make them morons.  If it is your opinion that you play better with blades, then rock on, but no lectures please.

[Mr. Herbert]

Aithos, on 02 May 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

No worries Thrillhouse, I don't have a problem with anything Kymar is saying.  I can understand where he got his opinion from and he is free to have it, he isn't being a jerk about it so we are all good.  He even acknowledged what I was saying which was one of the big points I made earlier lol.

Anth, I know you have trouble understanding the idea.  I don't believe most 17s should be playing blades, I agree they (as a whole) are not consistent ballstrikers.  My point is you can't go from that conclusion to none of them are good ballstrikers.  I believe people think blades are a *lot* harder to hit than they are, I feel my blades are easier to hit than the Walter Hagen cavity backs that were in my last set.  This is also a time where a lot of people are playing 3 and 4 hybrids, so we are mainly talking about 5-6i as being the "long" irons.  I learned on blades, and my last set was 7-pw blades, nearly my entire golf "life" I've played blades.

Also, my personal problem is twofold:  1) I struggle with my driver, 2) mentally I've lost confidence in the teebox and recovery shots when I miss the fairway.  I have a really hard time hitting low shots under or around trees and a lot of it is mental, I strike the ball well but clip branches or hit right into the stupid trees.  The other factor is what is your miss, mine is nearly always thin where a GI iron won't help me.  I almost never hit off the toe or heel.

I honestly didn't make this thread to become a discussion about blades though, I don't want it to turn into that.  I appreciate the comments people have left here.  If you want to discuss it further with me send me a PM, I don't what this thread to deteriorate either!

I know you don't want this to turn into a debate about using blades, but you have to first understand that a lot of people still cling to the belief that hitting a blade today is the same as it was in the seventies.  But a modern muscleback blade is not very difficult to hit at all, and there isn't the massive distance loss on mishits that everyone always talks about. No clubmaker is making an unforgiving set of irons in this day and age regardless of head type.  The GI iron is designed to help the ball into the air, but if you can already hit a ball in the air, there really isn't that much benefit.  Sure the sweet spot is a little bit larger, but it's like the difference between a dime and a penny, and isn't going to be noticeable to most people.  That's why there are so many threads from people who were scared to hit a blade, and then can't believe they hit it so well when they actually try it.  And then of course they get piled on by the people who are utterly clueless.

In reality, getting fitted for the proper shaft will make a much bigger difference than whether or not someone uses a blade.

[kingsalmon]

One of the beautiful things about golf is that your scores and handicap is an objective measure.  Almost everyone is a good ping pong player, or softball player, or poker player, just ask them.  In golf you have a number that,, at least for that time frame,  is assigned to you to designate your goodness.  You gotta know how to make a grilled cheese sammich, before you can cook a delicious gourmet meal.

[MelloYello]

I would recommend a 17 handicap not play blades but I really don't care at all what they play especially since they're nice to look at and I don't live in their body. I played blades for years as a mid-handicapper and after only a few rounds without them I realized I could do everything I wanted to in terms of working the ball plus much more with a slightly more forgiving forged CB. The difference is night and day for me and there's no going back. Too many good shots I'd be giving away and at this point results matter more to me than ego.

It's not complicated. Do what you want. No one cares.

In reality, you either feel guilty enough not to use them or you don't and will continue. Your ego won't get in other people's way, only yours. I'd suggest that you do away with all guilt and just play with them as long as it takes to wake up and play something else. It certainly doesn't mean I think any less of someone who plays blades as a mid-handicapper. I made the same mistake and in hindsight I feel I was silly for having done it if I'm brutally honest but I really never cared what anyone said either.

Edited by MelloYello, 02 May 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[tatertot]

kingsalmon, on 02 May 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

One of the beautiful things about golf is that your scores and handicap is an objective measure.  Almost everyone is a good ping pong player, or softball player, or poker player, just ask them.  In golf you have a number that,, at least for that time frame,  is assigned to you to designate your goodness.  You gotta know how to make a grilled cheese sammich, before you can cook a delicious gourmet meal.

Good sir, you have obviously missed all the "I'm a great ballstriker, but I average 54 putts a round and that's why my handicap is 17" threads around golfwrx.

[KYMAR]

Thanks for saying I am not a jerk


The thing that maybe got lost a little in what i wanted to say to you is that you are fighting a losing battle in some ways. I am now and always will be one who says, as i said to you, play what you want to play. No ones opinion matters here but yours. Trying to reason with people who just want to make you feel stupid is silly because they are not engaging in a debate for the purpose of the bringing attention to an issue, they do it to bring attention to themselves. I get standing up for your opinion and your preference, just try not to take the bait the trolls set out for good guys with something to say. I am always up for a good discussion so if you want feel free to PM me. I am sure we will have common ground on the idea the this WHOLE thing is Thrillhouses fault. Jerk. Fairways and greens!

[Aithos]

MelloYello, on 02 May 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I would recommend a 17 handicap not play blades but I really don't care at all what they play especially since they're nice to look at and I don't live in their body. I played blades for years as a mid-handicapper and after only a few rounds without them I realized I could do everything I wanted to in terms of working the ball plus much more with a slightly more forgiving forged CB. The difference is night and day for me and there's no going back. Too many good shots I'd be giving away and at this point results matter more to me than ego.

It's not complicated. Do what you want. No one cares.

In reality, you either feel guilty enough not to use them or you don't and will continue. Your ego won't get in other people's way, only yours. I'd suggest that you do away with all guilt and just play with them as long as it takes to wake up and play something else. It certainly doesn't mean I think any less of someone who plays blades as a mid-handicapper. I made the same mistake and in hindsight I feel I was silly for having done it if I'm brutally honest but I really never cared what anyone said either.

Well said, and I'm glad you have figured out what you want to play.  I feel the same way now that I have the blades I've always wanted.  I feel the combo set that I played for the previous seven years was a mistake and I wish I had gotten the blades sooner.  I'm not a normal 17 cap, I'm just not willing to claim my "old" handicap from before my long period of inactivity.  I started fresh this year so I have calculated my handicap from these first rounds.  People like to gloss over my background, 17 handicaps don't routinely shoot 38-42 nine hole rounds.

I encourage people to not get hung up on numbers, I'm a 17 because the first five rounds of the year were a disaster.  I don't hit like a 17, I don't think like a 17, and in another month I won't be a 17.  But I appreciate your input, I've seen some good posts from you in my time here...

[From_Parts_Unknown]

I agree that you can't judge people by their handicap.  I would say frequency of play is the most important when determining if someone could play blades.  For example, my handicap ranged from 0-3 when I played blades years ago.  I was playing a minimum of 5 times a week back then.  

Now, my handicap ranges from 0-3 during the year.  I play a minimum of 1 time a week and I have no business hitting blades even though my handicap hasn't changed.  I have moved on to game improvement clubs and I have even toyed around with going to super game improvement clubs because of the infrequency of my play.  

Somebody who plays 5 times a week or more should be able to handle blades if they desire to play them, regardless of handicap.

Edited by From_Parts_Unknown, 02 May 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[MattTheTaff]

highcapper, on 01 May 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

BEARS ON TRAMPOLINES ARE FUNNY!!!

This, and the context of the post within this particular thread, is a work of genius. Comedy Gold indeed,squire!

[anth]

Aithos, on 02 May 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Anth, I know you have trouble understanding the idea.  I don't believe most 17s should be playing blades, I agree they (as a whole) are not consistent ballstrikers.  My point is you can't go from that conclusion to none of them are good ballstrikers.  I believe people think blades are a *lot* harder to hit than they are, I feel my blades are easier to hit than the Walter Hagen cavity backs that were in my

Given that we're on an Internet forum and most of us don't know each other personally, we can only talk in generalities.   It goes without saying doesn't it?  We ask general questions and we seek opinions based on other peons experience.  If we had to place a disclaimer on ever post about the information being provided being of a general nature only then it would get tired pretty quickly.

I played my first set of blades when I was a 14 hcp and I have fond memories.  So I understand the lure of playing blades.  I thought I could handle them and I could on my good days.  Bad days not so much.

I now play off 3 and play a set of full cavities.  Did the blades help me become a better ball striker or was it just that I started playing more frequently? Maybe a little of both.

There are many reasons to play blades. Most of them are emotional reasons.  There is no logical reason to play them if the purpose of playing the game is to shoot the lowest score.  Maybe that's not why you play, but don't talk down at people who make that assumption about other people.  And don't belittle other people about their apparent inability to understand physics or logic when those arguments don't support your reasons for playing blades.

Go ahead and play what you want but don't have a go at those of us who are just offering opinions based on experience and convention.

[highcapper]

MattTheTaff, on 02 May 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

highcapper, on 01 May 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

BEARS ON TRAMPOLINES ARE FUNNY!!!

This, and the context of the post within this particular thread, is a work of genius. Comedy Gold indeed,squire!

Jeez that took long enough. I was getting worried that Wrx'ers were just a bunch of uptight, no fun, know-it-alls  who give solicited and unsolicited advice to strangers improperly. But what do I know I am only a 24 handicap, so I am not even allowed to form an opinion. Glad you all got to see me. If you need anything I'll be out gettin fit fo some new sticks, bladizzies of course , I need to get to a 18 so I can move up to the 3rd flight with the REAL players. SERIOUSLY!!

[Aithos]

anth, on 02 May 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Aithos, on 02 May 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Anth, I know you have trouble understanding the idea.  I don't believe most 17s should be playing blades, I agree they (as a whole) are not consistent ballstrikers.  My point is you can't go from that conclusion to none of them are good ballstrikers.  I believe people think blades are a *lot* harder to hit than they are, I feel my blades are easier to hit than the Walter Hagen cavity backs that were in my

Given that we're on an Internet forum and most of us don't know each other personally, we can only talk in generalities.   It goes without saying doesn't it?  We ask general questions and we seek opinions based on other peons experience.  If we had to place a disclaimer on ever post about the information being provided being of a general nature only then it would get tired pretty quickly.

I played my first set of blades when I was a 14 hcp and I have fond memories.  So I understand the lure of playing blades.  I thought I could handle them and I could on my good days.  Bad days not so much.

I now play off 3 and play a set of full cavities.  Did the blades help me become a better ball striker or was it just that I started playing more frequently? Maybe a little of both.

There are many reasons to play blades. Most of them are emotional reasons.  There is no logical reason to play them if the purpose of playing the game is to shoot the lowest score.  Maybe that's not why you play, but don't talk down at people who make that assumption about other people.  And don't belittle other people about their apparent inability to understand physics or logic when those arguments don't support your reasons for playing blades.

Go ahead and play what you want but don't have a go at those of us who are just offering opinions based on experience and convention.

Why?  Because you don't think you can shoot your lowest score with blades no one can?  You can give advice without specific information, that's general advice.  You're making a point blank statement that if I play blades I'm leaving strokes on the table.  You're implying that there is no upside to playing blades for yourself, me or anyone in general.  I don't talk down to people for having an opinion, but excuse me if I don't like to be talked down to.  Your statement I underlined...is talking down to me and making a bold assumption.  ESPECIALLY considering as *you* stated, we don't know each other.  I was never belittling people for not understanding physics, I took the time to explain the basic premise so that people WOULD understand.  And in the other thread which you're talking about, I was never talking about why I play blades.

If you would like to continue this discussion let's take it to PM, because I don't want to have it again in this thread.  It wasn't my intention here or in the other thread where you posted.

[kg92lefty]

KYMAR, on 01 May 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

I understand completely the frustration when someone comes down on you when your clubs have nothing to do with the topic. However, you got this ball rolling by posting a new thread about your experience. And as much as you wanted it to be about the proper decorum that should be used in any discussion here, there is no denying that in the first 5 or 6 paragraphs of the OP you were setting the ground work for a defense of a 17 playing blades. I am not sure how else anyone is supposed to interpret the whole "can't tell a persons talent from handicap alone" stuff. Plus, i am entirely unfamiliar with the other thread if that matters.

Sure you can, that is why we have this system. Even better though, the handicap system shows your potential (possibly higher than your talent).

Aithos, on 02 May 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

MelloYello, on 02 May 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I would recommend a 17 handicap not play blades but I really don't care at all what they play especially since they're nice to look at and I don't live in their body. I played blades for years as a mid-handicapper and after only a few rounds without them I realized I could do everything I wanted to in terms of working the ball plus much more with a slightly more forgiving forged CB. The difference is night and day for me and there's no going back. Too many good shots I'd be giving away and at this point results matter more to me than ego.

It's not complicated. Do what you want. No one cares.

In reality, you either feel guilty enough not to use them or you don't and will continue. Your ego won't get in other people's way, only yours. I'd suggest that you do away with all guilt and just play with them as long as it takes to wake up and play something else. It certainly doesn't mean I think any less of someone who plays blades as a mid-handicapper. I made the same mistake and in hindsight I feel I was silly for having done it if I'm brutally honest but I really never cared what anyone said either.

Well said, and I'm glad you have figured out what you want to play.  I feel the same way now that I have the blades I've always wanted.  I feel the combo set that I played for the previous seven years was a mistake and I wish I had gotten the blades sooner.  I'm not a normal 17 cap, I'm just not willing to claim my "old" handicap from before my long period of inactivity.  I started fresh this year so I have calculated my handicap from these first rounds.  People like to gloss over my background, 17 handicaps don't routinely shoot 38-42 nine hole rounds.

I encourage people to not get hung up on numbers, I'm a 17 because the first five rounds of the year were a disaster.  I don't hit like a 17, I don't think like a 17, and in another month I won't be a 17.  But I appreciate your input, I've seen some good posts from you in my time here...

Funny because the handicap system takes your best scores, so those "first five rounds" make no difference in your handicap.

[Aithos]

kg92lefty, on 02 May 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

KYMAR, on 01 May 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

I understand completely the frustration when someone comes down on you when your clubs have nothing to do with the topic. However, you got this ball rolling by posting a new thread about your experience. And as much as you wanted it to be about the proper decorum that should be used in any discussion here, there is no denying that in the first 5 or 6 paragraphs of the OP you were setting the ground work for a defense of a 17 playing blades. I am not sure how else anyone is supposed to interpret the whole "can't tell a persons talent from handicap alone" stuff. Plus, i am entirely unfamiliar with the other thread if that matters.

Sure you can, that is why we have this system. Even better though, the handicap system shows your potential (possibly higher than your talent).

Aithos, on 02 May 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Well said, and I'm glad you have figured out what you want to play.  I feel the same way now that I have the blades I've always wanted.  I feel the combo set that I played for the previous seven years was a mistake and I wish I had gotten the blades sooner.  I'm not a normal 17 cap, I'm just not willing to claim my "old" handicap from before my long period of inactivity.  I started fresh this year so I have calculated my handicap from these first rounds.  People like to gloss over my background, 17 handicaps don't routinely shoot 38-42 nine hole rounds.

I encourage people to not get hung up on numbers, I'm a 17 because the first five rounds of the year were a disaster.  I don't hit like a 17, I don't think like a 17, and in another month I won't be a 17.  But I appreciate your input, I've seen some good posts from you in my time here...

Funny because the handicap system takes your best scores, so those "first five rounds" make no difference in your handicap.

Actually it takes your 10 best of 20 rounds.  Until you have more than 10 rounds it takes all 10 by default, I have exactly 10 rounds played when you add together all my 9 hole rounds consecutively.  So until I play 6-10 more 9 hole rounds or 3-5 more 18 hole rounds those are driving up my number considerably.  Please don't bother to reply to my posts anymore, you have shown me repeatedly you either don't understand what I'm saying or don't care.  You have your opinion about handicaps and if you want to think they mean a lot more than they do, fine.  I'm finished spending my time responding to you.

[bananapel]

lol, you are way off Aithos::

Step 1: Use the table below to determine the number of Handicap Differential(s) to use:




That's from USGA's website.

blades SHOULD be for good ball strikers. As somebody else mentioned...it all boils down to consistency. My brother had blades before I did way back and I could hit good shots with them and the feel was great....but then again my off shots, and there were plenty, were tons worst than my GI irons. He still plays them and shouldn't bc his ball striking is not consistent enough for them and will benefit more from GI irons right now. If I would tell my own brother he would benefit from GI irons, why wouldn't I tell somebody on a forum?

I wonder how many scratch golfers and low single digit players would tell a bogey golfer they would improve by playing GI irons until they improve their consistency...my thinking would be almost all of them. If that person is so bent on playing blades and disregarding everybody's opinions then whatever but most opinions on what irons to play aren't biased but rather based on fact (ball striking & consistency) to answer a question over the internet, without ever seeing them swing in real life.


edit: if somebody wants to play blades over GI irons and shoot higher then so be it. If somebody wants to hit tour X flex in driver over regular or stiff and can't hit the ball 10 yards off the ground then so be it. You want to wear the best golf gear and play the most expensive stuff and not break 100 when people say it's better to spend the money on lessons then do it. Nobody, at least I'm not, is telling somebody with outright conviction not to do something nor should anybody let advice on the internet affect them so much....after all, it's the internet.

Edited by bananapel, 02 May 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[anth]

Aithos, on 02 May 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

anth, on 02 May 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Aithos, on 02 May 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Anth, I know you have trouble understanding the idea.  I don't believe most 17s should be playing blades, I agree they (as a whole) are not consistent ballstrikers.  My point is you can't go from that conclusion to none of them are good ballstrikers.  I believe people think blades are a *lot* harder to hit than they are, I feel my blades are easier to hit than the Walter Hagen cavity backs that were in my

Given that we're on an Internet forum and most of us don't know each other personally, we can only talk in generalities.   It goes without saying doesn't it?  We ask general questions and we seek opinions based on other peons experience.  If we had to place a disclaimer on ever post about the information being provided being of a general nature only then it would get tired pretty quickly.

I played my first set of blades when I was a 14 hcp and I have fond memories.  So I understand the lure of playing blades.  I thought I could handle them and I could on my good days.  Bad days not so much.

I now play off 3 and play a set of full cavities.  Did the blades help me become a better ball striker or was it just that I started playing more frequently? Maybe a little of both.

There are many reasons to play blades. Most of them are emotional reasons.  There is no logical reason to play them if the purpose of playing the game is to shoot the lowest score.  Maybe that's not why you play, but don't talk down at people who make that assumption about other people.  And don't belittle other people about their apparent inability to understand physics or logic when those arguments don't support your reasons for playing blades.

Go ahead and play what you want but don't have a go at those of us who are just offering opinions based on experience and convention.

Why?  Because you don't think you can shoot your lowest score with blades no one can?  You can give advice without specific information, that's general advice.  You're making a point blank statement that if I play blades I'm leaving strokes on the table.  You're implying that there is no upside to playing blades for yourself, me or anyone in general.  I don't talk down to people for having an opinion, but excuse me if I don't like to be talked down to.  Your statement I underlined...is talking down to me and making a bold assumption.  ESPECIALLY considering as *you* stated, we don't know each other.  I was never belittling people for not understanding physics, I took the time to explain the basic premise so that people WOULD understand.  And in the other thread which you're talking about, I was never talking about why I play blades.

If you would like to continue this discussion let's take it to PM, because I don't want to have it again in this thread.  It wasn't my intention here or in the other thread where you posted.

You and I must have different ideas about the definition of "belittling".  And forgive me for not taking it to PM but you started the thread in the first place, so...

This whole discussion started because you suggested that GI irons were actually less accurate than blades.  And you accuse me of making blanket statements?

You have posted no proof, other than a link pointing to anecdotal evidence, to back up this claim, and a mention of Tom Wishon.  I have searched and found no evidence that Wishon agrees with this.  Maybe I'm not searching well enough.  Maybe someone can point me in the right direction?

Maybe Tom could come here and post what his thoughts are - I know he shows up here every now and then.

But let's assume that the evidence is correct.  That for both blades and non-blades the difference in dispersion is up to 8 feet in favor of blades as suggested in the article, using an Iron Byron on shots out of the dead center.  

Do you really think you are as or more consistent than a machine calibrated to make the same swing over and over again?  Really?  At an 18 handicap?  I would think that there are pros that could not find that level of consistency time and time again.

And that's just for dead center hits.  What about hits that are (even slightly) off center?  Do you think that the blade will be more accurate than the non-blade in this area?  Safe to say the GI iron would have better dispersion on off center hits, wouldn't you agree?

I'll say it again.  I really don't care what you play.  Really, I don't.  Play what you want and enjoy the game.  But don't have a go at me or others and insinuate that we don't have an understanding of physics or logic (and are therefore stupid) because we disagree with your opinion, or more accurately, don't believe what you believe to be fact.  I have yet to see any conclusive evidence, but I reserve the right to change my mind of course.

[Aithos]

bananapel, on 02 May 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

lol, you are way off Aithos::

Step 1: Use the table below to determine the number of Handicap Differential(s) to use:




That's from USGA's website.

blades SHOULD be for good ball strikers. As somebody else mentioned...it all boils down to consistency. My brother had blades before I did way back and I could hit good shots with them and the feel was great....but then again my off shots, and there were plenty, were tons worst than my GI irons. He still plays them and shouldn't bc his ball striking is not consistent enough for them and will benefit more from GI irons right now. If I would tell my own brother he would benefit from GI irons, why wouldn't I tell somebody on a forum?

I wonder how many scratch golfers and low single digit players would tell a bogey golfer they would improve by playing GI irons until they improve their consistency...my thinking would be almost all of them. If that person is so bent on playing blades and disregarding everybody's opinions then whatever but most opinions on what irons to play aren't biased but rather based on fact (ball striking & consistency) to answer a question over the internet, without ever seeing them swing in real life.


edit: if somebody wants to play blades over GI irons and shoot higher then so be it. If somebody wants to hit tour X flex in driver over regular or stiff and can't hit the ball 10 yards off the ground then so be it. You want to wear the best golf gear and play the most expensive stuff and not break 100 when people say it's better to spend the money on lessons then do it. Nobody, at least I'm not, is telling somebody with outright conviction not to do something nor should anybody let advice on the internet affect them so much....after all, it's the internet.

Oh, well then in that case I'll have to take another look.  I'm not going to lie, that USGA website is a nightmare trying to figure anything out because they talk about so many different numbers you need.  I was mistaken about how they calculate the handicap, maybe I'll just pay for the official group at my club and enter them then there won't be any confusion for me.  As for the rest of what you're saying, none of it is new.  As I've stated previously I'm done with that conversation, this thread isn't about that.  Thanks for keeping it civil though, I do appreciate it.

[Sean2]

Professionals play blades. Professionals play cavity backs. Professionals play GI's.

There is no right or wrong answer to this question!

All you can do is play what works for you. And, whatever that is is not proof it will work for someone else.

Sheesh...