110 replies to this topic

[scarywoody]

I am a 6.5 hdcp and I have been using the J33 cavity backs (S300) for the last few years.   I am a sweeper, my ball flight is low-mid, and my miss is a push to the right.

I was curious if any low cappers have switched from players irons to game improvement irons and what the results were.  I hit my irons good, but I am wondering if switching to a more forgiving iron would improve my GIR.  Maybe more consistent distance control with the increased forgiveness.

Any thoughts?  thanks

[ecfritts]

I was in the same boat...I was playing MP 63/53 combo set and looking for more forgiveness (even though I was pleased with my irons).  I picked up a set of I20's...I've only played twice with them and both times have been scrambles...I like them and hit them well...but I must admit I've been trolling the BST looking for MP59, AP2's & J40's...I'm not sure what is wrong with me!

[johnstitch]

I think it's a trad thing. Low hcp equals less forgiving but better looking irons. I swapped my MP57s for R11s and to be honest are not hitting them any better (cue swing fault). They look bigger and should inspire more confidence but to be honest they make you swing lazy and are poor for chipping as the soles are thicker and the faces a bit jumpy. And yes I am looking at changing back to MP53s or TM's forged cavity....

[plus8]

I have been using I15's for 3 years, just recently picked up a set of Cobra S2's - almost on a whim - mainly because I hit 'em at a demo and they were stupid easy to hit and work left and right (and they were cheap).  During my startup session with a teacher this year, he recommended a slightly softer shaft than I was using, so I thought I'd give 'em a whirl.....

Anyway, I've used them for about 4 rounds so far ---- 2 things: first, it was a bit of an ego swallow to bring these out in public and use them (because of the Ping-snob part), but once I got over that and all the 'buy-a-game' comments from my league buddies, I was fine. Secondly, my game has improved probably 4 strokes a round so far - it is truly easy to break 85 these days with these things and I am flirting with 70's almost every round - even with my remarkably yippy putting.   Do these GI's induce sloppy swings? I dunno - I always figured they would, but it hasn't been the case with me so far. Are they gonna get me from 12 to under 10?  Maybe, if I can get a handle on the sometimes too-much distance I'm getting.  Although they are certainly not a panacea for anybody's game, they really DO forgive more than my I15's.

I kept my Clevelands and Vokeys however (I do have my limits).

Hope this helps.

[stateman]

I think all the comments about a lazy swing with GI irons is a load of crap. The benefits of GI irons are huge and not enough people take advantage of them. I am sorry but unless you are the top 2% of all golfers and can repeat the exact same swing 95% of the round then you should be using some type of GI iron. I am not saying you need to go buy "shovels", but something with moderate forgiveness should be fine. I think there are two main reasons why a lot of average (80-90 shooters) don't play GI irons. First EGO! I don't care what anyone says a lot of people like that when others look at their bag they see flashy blades or use what the pros play. Second is it just has too much darn offset. We either hook the ball too much or it just looks horrible at address. There are many solutions for this though. Just find a good forgiving club with minimal offset. Great example would be like the Wilson C series. Great forgiveness and not much offset. I switches from Golfsmith pro forged blades about 3 years ago. At that time I was shooting low 80's and would break into the 70 on occasion. I had no business playing those clubs, even getting into the 70's every now and then. It is all about misses, and my misses punished me horribly. I know that some will say "well practicing with them will make you better and you will have less misses". How many people really have the time and money to practice the amount that it would take to really play a players or tour type club (every day / 300 balls a day)? I ended up switching to the Wilson Ci6. It has a lot of forgiveness and very minimal offset. Now my misses are less frequent and less harsh. If I don't shoot in the 70's now it is considered a bad round and I have been one shot from shooting in the 60's. It's all about MISSES! How bad are they, can you recover, and how many. If you think you should be playing blades or even less forgiving players irons just thing about this. Ben Curtis, who just won on tour recently again, is playing the AP1 irons. That is the most forgiving club the company makes. And if you look at his stats that week he was number 1 in GIR!

The way I look at it is simple. The tour golfers make up the top .02% of all golfers. They are that good! So when you look at the fact that 95% of tour players use some type of cavity back (Westwood - i10 irons, Rocco - x20 irons, Striker - AP2, Snedeker - J40 Cavity) and the list goes on and on. Anyone on this forum think they are better than any of those golfers listed? Take for example that if a lot of tour players are playing the Titleist AP2 (and they are) should any of us be playing anything but the AP1 (also played on tour)?

I think once we get our ego's out of the way our games will improve. I know mine did. I have no problem letting people look at my clubs and snicker. Hell I will let them clean them too for me after I drop a 74 on them!

[scarywoody]

Thanks for the responses.  I think I will start searching for a GI set to try out.  My next question is.....What GI iron has the thinnest topline and least offset ?

Also noticed this thread was helpful too.

http://www.golfwrx.c...nt-to-gi-irons/

[PreppySlapCut]

stateman, on 30 April 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

So when you look at the fact that 95% of tour players use some type of cavity back...

No.

[enis750]

Check THIS out...... was even on the 1st page .... just sayin

[jgolfin]

plus8, on 30 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

I have been using I15's for 3 years, just recently picked up a set of Cobra S2's - almost on a whim - mainly because I hit 'em at a demo and they were stupid easy to hit and work left and right (and they were cheap).  During my startup session with a teacher this year, he recommended a slightly softer shaft than I was using, so I thought I'd give 'em a whirl.....

Anyway, I've used them for about 4 rounds so far ---- 2 things: first, it was a bit of an ego swallow to bring these out in public and use them (because of the Ping-snob part), but once I got over that and all the 'buy-a-game' comments from my league buddies, I was fine. Secondly, my game has improved probably 4 strokes a round so far - it is truly easy to break 85 these days with these things and I am flirting with 70's almost every round - even with my remarkably yippy putting.   Do these GI's induce sloppy swings? I dunno - I always figured they would, but it hasn't been the case with me so far. Are they gonna get me from 12 to under 10?  Maybe, if I can get a handle on the sometimes too-much distance I'm getting.  Although they are certainly not a panacea for anybody's game, they really DO forgive more than my I15's.

I kept my Clevelands and Vokeys however (I do have my limits).

Hope this helps.

I have found the i15s to be very forgiving on my couple of round misses on the toe.

[starrman77]

I don't care what your handicap is, the fact is you have one and are not a pro. Why make the game harder than it is?. Check you ego's and get some irons that will forgive your miss hits like today's modern drivers do. We all have bad days and GI irons will help get you through those. Blades are for the few pros who still choose to play them. Funny that nearly all pros use forgiving 460cc drivers but some still play those smallish, non forgiving blades This of course is just my opinion.

[Aithos]

GI irons don't have the same dispersion or accuracy as players/blades, so if you strike them well you won't really pick up any GIR and you might actually find that your GIR go down.  GI irons are better for people without good ballstriking and distance control.  

Too many people think equipment is a way to a better golf score, it's not.  If you want more GIR then figure out what part of your game is leaking and work on it.  Personally I know my problem is the driver, I'm losing it right again after not slicing for years (and starting the year with a duck hook) and its causing me all manner of problems.  But a new driver isn't my solution, I'm not even adjusting it yet (R11)...it's a swing problem...

[Aithos]

Couple things:  1) most pros are good enough ballstrikers to play anything they want and hit any shot, amateurs aren't.  2) everyone's games are different, you don't need to hit the ball perfectly every time to play blades/players clubs.  You just need to know your miss, to suggest "everyone" should play GI is as stupid as saying everyone should play blades.  Stop it.

People seriously need to stop pointing to pros as justification for what they should play, it just makes them look bad.  It's just like people thinking they need to play x stiff shaft when their game would be better off with stiff.  Don't project your game on me, thanks...

[asualum]

Aithos, on 30 April 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

GI irons don't have the same dispersion or accuracy as players/blades, so if you strike them well you won't really pick up any GIR and you might actually find that your GIR go down.  GI irons are better for people without good ballstriking and distance control.  

Too many people think equipment is a way to a better golf score, it's not.  If you want more GIR then figure out what part of your game is leaking and work on it.  Personally I know my problem is the driver, I'm losing it right again after not slicing for years (and starting the year with a duck hook) and its causing me all manner of problems.  But a new driver isn't my solution, I'm not even adjusting it yet (R11)...it's a swing problem...

Dispersion - That's my number one reason for still playing a blade. I mix a combo set of CB or AP2 710s with a short iron set of MBs. I'm not the best ball striker but I've found that the tends to go where I point it with blades.

[Aithos]

asualum, on 30 April 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Aithos, on 30 April 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

GI irons don't have the same dispersion or accuracy as players/blades, so if you strike them well you won't really pick up any GIR and you might actually find that your GIR go down.  GI irons are better for people without good ballstriking and distance control.  

Too many people think equipment is a way to a better golf score, it's not.  If you want more GIR then figure out what part of your game is leaking and work on it.  Personally I know my problem is the driver, I'm losing it right again after not slicing for years (and starting the year with a duck hook) and its causing me all manner of problems.  But a new driver isn't my solution, I'm not even adjusting it yet (R11)...it's a swing problem...

Dispersion - That's my number one reason for still playing a blade. I mix a combo set of CB or AP2 710s with a short iron set of MBs. I'm not the best ball striker but I've found that the tends to go where I point it with blades.

I play blades for the same reason, but even though I'm not a single digit I know *my* game and will no longer submit to "peer pressure" about what I should play.  My iron ballstriking is the strength of my game (4i+ since I don't carry a 3i) and my miss is thin, I almost never hit off the toe or heel.  If I do I'd rather it be short than long as I try to manage courses so my misses don't hurt me as much.  Now if only I could keep my driver in play off the tee!  



Edit: forgot to mention, the good/great shots with my new blades are 10x as good as my old combo set.  My scores have improved since I got my new clubs and I'm much more confident, definitely excited for the rest of the year...

Edited by Aithos, 30 April 2012 - 02:37 PM.

[starrman77]

Aithos, on 30 April 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Couple things:  1) most pros are good enough ballstrikers to play anything they want and hit any shot, amateurs aren't.  2) everyone's games are different, you don't need to hit the ball perfectly every time to play blades/players clubs.  You just need to know your miss, to suggest "everyone" should play GI is as stupid as saying everyone should play blades.  Stop it.

People seriously need to stop pointing to pros as justification for what they should play, it just makes them look bad.  It's just like people thinking they need to play x stiff shaft when their game would be better off with stiff.  Don't project your game on me, thanks...

Ok genius, What didn't you get about it's just an opinion. In America, everyone is untitled to one. If you don't like it, don't read it. Have a beer and chill. Stupid is as stupid writes. Stupid.

[Aithos]

starrman77, on 30 April 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Aithos, on 30 April 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Couple things:  1) most pros are good enough ballstrikers to play anything they want and hit any shot, amateurs aren't.  2) everyone's games are different, you don't need to hit the ball perfectly every time to play blades/players clubs.  You just need to know your miss, to suggest "everyone" should play GI is as stupid as saying everyone should play blades.  Stop it.

People seriously need to stop pointing to pros as justification for what they should play, it just makes them look bad.  It's just like people thinking they need to play x stiff shaft when their game would be better off with stiff.  Don't project your game on me, thanks...

Ok genius, What didn't you get about it's just an opinion. In America, everyone is untitled to one. If you don't like it, don't read it. Have a beer and chill. Stupid is as stupid writes. Stupid.

First of all, I think you need that beer and chill time.  I'm not sure why you got all up in arms but calling me stupid isn't going to get you anywhere.  Second,  I advocate a very simple list of things, let me break them down:

1) everyone puts too much weight on equipment as a fix for a problem in their game, it's not a good way to play the game.  Even pros tend to use what works and they are comfortable with, they don't change every year for a reason and it's one of the few *good* parallels that people miss.

2) basing equipment off a handicap is ridiculous without firsthand knowledge of every aspect of that players game.  Everything else is an exercise in ignorance because there are no blanket solutions in golf. Even the most unforgiving blade in the world doesn't require that level of consistency to play well, people used to learn on blades all the time GI clubs are new even since I started in 1998.  There comes a point where it isn't ballstriking losing you strokes and forgiveness comes with downsides, it isn't right for everyone.  There is also no correlation between driver forgiveness and iron forgiveness, it's a different beast entirely and the results are wildly different because of the distance involved.  A bad miss with a 3i will *never* be as bad as a bad miss with a driver.  Pros play 460cc drivers because at their SS and distance a poor hit can lose them a tournament, amateurs play them because we suck and most people struggle with the driver (me included).  However, I actually hit my 360cc Callaway Big Bertha from 2004 better than my R11.  I wish I could get a 400cc tour driver with newer technology, I can't afford it..

3) how the pros strike the ball has very little to do with the game we are playing.  Tiger woods could easily hit every shot with a GI iron, he plays blades because it works for his game and mental approach.  Not all pros feel the same, thus they play different clubs.  Why people assume the same *cant* be true of amateurs and claim you need to be a legendary ballstrikers to play blades is purely stupid and ignorant.  Just as I said it would be stupid for me to say "everyone should play blades, it will make you a better ballstriker" No, it won't.  Practice will make you a better ballstriker, lessons will make you a better ballstriker, those things will give you more GIR.  It's highly unlikely a new set of irons will be the magical fix to shave strokes off your game unless you are playing something really poorly suited for *your* game.  

You need to take a step back and understand what I'm getting at, these threads get stupid because everyone thinks about their own games and assumes everyone else should do the same.  *MY* opinion doesn't tell you what you should do, why you think *YOU* know what I should do makes me laugh.  But as you said "stupid is as stupid writes" ...

Oh, and for the record...I wasn't even responding to you.  I hadn't read your post when I added mine, I just didn't feel the need to quote the other guy since it was more of a general statement than direct reply.  But hey, get all threatened over the Internet, that's your right.

[HateTheHighDraw]

My miss is a fat shot.  Won't matter if I'm playing SGI clubs or blades, I'm going to lose distance.  I play J40 cavities cause I like the way they look and feel confident with them.  Its that simple.  Play what you want to play, not what someone or some company tells you you should play.

[hebron1427]

starrman77, on 30 April 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

I don't care what your handicap is, the fact is you have one and are not a pro. Why make the game harder than it is?. Check you ego's and get some irons that will forgive your miss hits like today's modern drivers do. We all have bad days and GI irons will help get you through those. Blades are for the few pros who still choose to play them. Funny that nearly all pros use forgiving 460cc drivers but some still play those smallish, non forgiving blades This of course is just my opinion.

interesting opinion. I've actually played blades/player's caviites BECAUSE i'm in the woods so much. it's a lot harder for me to hit my (now famous) rescue shots if the clubs i'm playing won't let me.

[plus8]

stateman, on 30 April 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

....Second is it just has too much darn offset. We either hook the ball too much or it just looks horrible at address. There are many solutions for this though. ....

Well put.  I will say the offset on my S2's has ben something of a learning curve (in fact, it is doggoned irritating to fight that hard draw sometimes, especially on short irons, and especially when I tend to draw 'em anyway).  But on the plus side, it makes me pay more attention to my release and finish.  Like I said, the one thing I haven't gotten a handle on yet is the extra distance of these things - sometimes they are surprising.

I also agree that the supposition that GI clubs make for sloppy swings. For me, just the opposite  is true. I actually pay more attention to my take away and my shoulder/leading arm angle MORE now, since I know the payoff will be so much better.

Hope this helps.

p.s.  I played 'em today and shot 2 over for 9 holes,  Not a trend yet, but just sayin'.....

Edited by plus8, 30 April 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[anth]

What proof exists that GI irons don't have the same dispersion or accuracy as blades? A shot out of the middle is out of the middle regardless.

An off center hit will result in a straighter shot with a GI iron than if it was struck with a blade.  That's what perimeter weighting does.  Less twisting of the club face equals a straighter shot.

If you want to play blades then go ahead, but don't tell me they're straighter or more accurate.

To the OP, I used to play the J33 and they were great clubs. I then went looking for more forgiveness and eventually settled on some Adams A4. I think Adams make the best irons in this category. GI technology in clubs with player appearance - you just have to find the ones that best suit your eye.

I don't practice as much as I used to prior to the birth of my son but I have managed to reduce my index over the last 12 months. Is it because of the extra forgiveness? Maybe, maybe not.

But I feel much better about turning up every week without having gone to the range and knowing that I don't have to be close to perfect to post a good score.

[kjbowen]

There is zero chance a blade will perform like a GI iron. If you strike them both dead on the dime.. Maybe. But a slight mishit with a blade will fly shorter and not feel as good as a slight mis hit with a GI club. I came from combos and went p callaway diablo forged irons..  I am a single digit and I have never hit the ball better then with these irons. They are forgiving but workable. I will never play a blade again I don't care if I'm a +2 capper.. The game is hard enuff

[Rebel420]

I personally believe a person should play what works best for them.  It's all about having fun.  

With that said, and maybe I'm naive but I think it's contradictory to cite "shot shaping ability" and "too much offset" as the reason to play blades.  Shot shaping implies being able to force a draw or fade, and if a person is of the ability to do that, compensating for the offset should be easiest thing to do for that persin

[Rebel420]

Person=person.  Sorry for typo

[Medic]

I am living proof that what Aithos is saying is most definitely 100% correct.

I fell for the hype; actually the idea that what works for others will work for me. And so I changed from GI to Player's irons. I called it my Mizuno experiment.

The end result was that I found out that the equipment was better than me. Painful but true.

I play to a 6.7 handicap. I have a solid game with a good grasp of what I need to do, when, and even how. But the MP-58's were just too much iron for me and my game to handle. I managed to shoot a couple of great rounds with them but I also managed to shoot some of the worst rounds I ever played. That inconsistency led to a loss in my confidence levels. Pretty soon instead of just going through my routine and pulling the trigger I was thinking about lots of bad things that might happen. This lack of concentration really messed up my game. The results and the level of enjoyment and fun.

And so I sold the Mizunos and once again have GI irons in the bag. And I am once again shooting to my handicap. I am $50 short and a whole lot wiser.

The bottom line is really simple. There are some things all golfers have in common but there is a far greater number of things that we don't. To ever imply that any single piece of equipment or to assume it is to be very, very mistaken. And that, in my measure, is the whole point Aithos has been making.

For me, now, the big question is what do I do to improve. And the answer has been to practice. Equipment won't fix the ailments my swing is suffering. I went through a three month experiment that proved that beyond any doubt!

[Aithos]

anth, on 30 April 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

What proof exists that GI irons don't have the same dispersion or accuracy as blades? A shot out of the middle is out of the middle regardless.

An off center hit will result in a straighter shot with a GI iron than if it was struck with a blade.  That's what perimeter weighting does.  Less twisting of the club face equals a straighter shot.

If you want to play blades then go ahead, but don't tell me they're straighter or more accurate.

To the OP, I used to play the J33 and they were great clubs. I then went looking for more forgiveness and eventually settled on some Adams A4. I think Adams make the best irons in this category. GI technology in clubs with player appearance - you just have to find the ones that best suit your eye.

I don't practice as much as I used to prior to the birth of my son but I have managed to reduce my index over the last 12 months. Is it because of the extra forgiveness? Maybe, maybe not.

But I feel much better about turning up every week without having gone to the range and knowing that I don't have to be close to perfect to post a good score.

Countless studies show that blades are more accurate and have tighter dispersion, it's a fact.  The weighting you remove from the center to add forgiveness lowers accuracy and thus dispersion.  The same reason blades are less good on mishits is the same reason they are better on good ones.

People who argue in favor of GI irons like to pretend you add forgiveness without losing anything and that just isn't true.  There are good and bad things about both and there are groups of players for *both* types of clubs.  One isn't "better" than another because everyone has different strengths and weaknesses in their golf game, another fact.

As for the person who said that offset isn't a big deal and any good player should be able to work around it:  do you really think fighting the design of the club and compensating in your swing is a good idea?  That's a terrible idea, lets mess up our swings to fight a club designed for someone who can't get their clubface into the proper position at impact?  Really?  ...

[Aithos]

Medic, on 30 April 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

I am living proof that what Aithos is saying is most definitely 100% correct.

I fell for the hype; actually the idea that what works for others will work for me. And so I changed from GI to Player's irons. I called it my Mizuno experiment.

The end result was that I found out that the equipment was better than me. Painful but true.

I play to a 6.7 handicap. I have a solid game with a good grasp of what I need to do, when, and even how. But the MP-58's were just too much iron for me and my game to handle. I managed to shoot a couple of great rounds with them but I also managed to shoot some of the worst rounds I ever played. That inconsistency led to a loss in my confidence levels. Pretty soon instead of just going through my routine and pulling the trigger I was thinking about lots of bad things that might happen. This lack of concentration really messed up my game. The results and the level of enjoyment and fun.

And so I sold the Mizunos and once again have GI irons in the bag. And I am once again shooting to my handicap. I am $50 short and a whole lot wiser.

The bottom line is really simple. There are some things all golfers have in common but there is a far greater number of things that we don't. To ever imply that any single piece of equipment or to assume it is to be very, very mistaken. And that, in my measure, is the whole point Aithos has been making.

For me, now, the big question is what do I do to improve. And the answer has been to practice. Equipment won't fix the ailments my swing is suffering. I went through a three month experiment that proved that beyond any doubt!

Thank you Medic.  If you look at my posts (all over the site) and the "arguments" I post about there is basically one thing I trumpet over and over again:  Blanket statements are bad, so let's not use them (except that one!).  There are too many variables when talking about our golf games to make assumptions for large groups of people.  There are people making bad statements on both sides of most arguments.  Blades aren't for everyone, neither are GI irons.  There are subsets of golfers for *EVERY* type of club.  I wasn't joking when I mentioned shaft flexibility earlier, it's the same thing X for one guy Ladies for another...whatever works.  What fits your game may or may not fit mine.  

People who think no one but pros can play blades are out of their minds.  But so are the people who think *anyone* can play blades.  It isn't because they are stupid (usually), it is because they just plain don't know what they are talking about or they don't have the experience of modern equipment offerings.  Or they think that because it doesn't work for them (and they are the best amateur golfer ever) that therefore it doesn't work for anyone else.  

I've played nearly every category of club on the market within the last two months...I was in multiple golf shops literally dozens of times hitting things on different days.  I don't think there was a single set I didn't hit at least 2-3 times, I looked with launch monitor and without.  I ended up with blades because I got the best numbers with them, I felt the most confident with them and I liked the look/feel the best.  The pro who fit me agreed with my opinion and the Taylormade Rep thought I was stupid because I'm not a single digit and suggested R11 irons (go figure).  It was the best fit for *my* game, no one elses.  I don't go around telling every guy who plays Ping g20s to stop hitting shovels and buy some blades...it's RUDE.  Telling me that only pros are good enough to play blades and that I'm stupid and throwing strokes away is *RUDE* not to mention wrong.  I'm tired of both sides making ignorant blanket statements for or against what *they* prefer.  

The guy who was arguing with me earlier told me it was "an opinion" and to chill out and have a beer.  I'm the guy sitting here arguing to stop making stupid blanket statements that are WRONG and OPINIONS.  Irony anyone?

[gopherguts]

Aithos, on 30 April 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

anth, on 30 April 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

What proof exists that GI irons don't have the same dispersion or accuracy as blades? A shot out of the middle is out of the middle regardless.

An off center hit will result in a straighter shot with a GI iron than if it was struck with a blade.  That's what perimeter weighting does.  Less twisting of the club face equals a straighter shot.

If you want to play blades then go ahead, but don't tell me they're straighter or more accurate.

To the OP, I used to play the J33 and they were great clubs. I then went looking for more forgiveness and eventually settled on some Adams A4. I think Adams make the best irons in this category. GI technology in clubs with player appearance - you just have to find the ones that best suit your eye.

I don't practice as much as I used to prior to the birth of my son but I have managed to reduce my index over the last 12 months. Is it because of the extra forgiveness? Maybe, maybe not.

But I feel much better about turning up every week without having gone to the range and knowing that I don't have to be close to perfect to post a good score.

Countless studies show that blades are more accurate and have tighter dispersion, it's a fact.  The weighting you remove from the center to add forgiveness lowers accuracy and thus dispersion.  The same reason blades are less good on mishits is the same reason they are better on good ones.

People who argue in favor of GI irons like to pretend you add forgiveness without losing anything and that just isn't true.  There are good and bad things about both and there are groups of players for *both* types of clubs.  

Like to see a few links to those studies. TIA

But meanwhile, given the legend himself, Ben Hogan, claimed only 3 perfect (or however he phrased it) hits per round out of approximately 40, you want me to rely on blades to post my best scores ?

I think not.

I got a guy in my club that I play a match with every week. We're very close in overall ability. He's got a slight edge in driver distance, I've got a slight edge in accuracy. He's got a decent advantage in chipping and putting though. But he just LOVES his blades. I do too. Splash, bunker, shortside.

Beat him like a drum. If he ever goes G.I. I'd probably have to ask for shots or stop betting him.

[gopherguts]

Aithos, on 30 April 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

I've played nearly every category of club on the market within the last two months...I was in multiple golf shops literally dozens of times hitting things on different days.  I don't think there was a single set I didn't hit at least 2-3 times, I looked with launch monitor and without.  I ended up with blades because I got the best numbers with them, I felt the most confident with them and I liked the look/feel the best.  The pro who fit me agreed with my opinion and the Taylormade Rep thought I was stupid because I'm not a single digit and suggested R11 irons (go figure).  It was the best fit for *my* game, no one elses.  I don't go around telling every guy who plays Ping g20s to stop hitting shovels and buy some blades...it's RUDE.  Telling me that only pros are good enough to play blades and that I'm stupid and throwing strokes away is *RUDE* not to mention wrong.  I'm tired of both sides making ignorant blanket statements for or against what *they* prefer.

And here I thought *I* was a salesman's/store owner's worst nightmare !!!

So what blades did you buy ? Oops, never mind, just looked at your sig. MP 69's. Nice.

And what's your handicap ?

Edited by gopherguts, 30 April 2012 - 07:09 PM.

[Aithos]

gopherguts, on 30 April 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Aithos, on 30 April 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

anth, on 30 April 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

What proof exists that GI irons don't have the same dispersion or accuracy as blades? A shot out of the middle is out of the middle regardless.

An off center hit will result in a straighter shot with a GI iron than if it was struck with a blade.  That's what perimeter weighting does.  Less twisting of the club face equals a straighter shot.

If you want to play blades then go ahead, but don't tell me they're straighter or more accurate.

To the OP, I used to play the J33 and they were great clubs. I then went looking for more forgiveness and eventually settled on some Adams A4. I think Adams make the best irons in this category. GI technology in clubs with player appearance - you just have to find the ones that best suit your eye.

I don't practice as much as I used to prior to the birth of my son but I have managed to reduce my index over the last 12 months. Is it because of the extra forgiveness? Maybe, maybe not.

But I feel much better about turning up every week without having gone to the range and knowing that I don't have to be close to perfect to post a good score.

Countless studies show that blades are more accurate and have tighter dispersion, it's a fact.  The weighting you remove from the center to add forgiveness lowers accuracy and thus dispersion.  The same reason blades are less good on mishits is the same reason they are better on good ones.

People who argue in favor of GI irons like to pretend you add forgiveness without losing anything and that just isn't true.  There are good and bad things about both and there are groups of players for *both* types of clubs.  

Like to see a few links to those studies. TIA

But meanwhile, given the legend himself, Ben Hogan, claimed only 3 perfect (or however he phrased it) hits per round out of approximately 40, you want me to rely on blades to post my best scores ?

I think not.

I got a guy in my club that I play a match with every week. We're very close in overall ability. He's got a slight edge in driver distance, I've got a slight edge in accuracy. He's got a decent advantage in chipping and putting though. But he just LOVES his blades. I do too. Splash, bunker, shortside.

Beat him like a drum. If he ever goes G.I. I'd probably have to ask for shots or stop betting him.

How about I just get my buddy who is a brilliant physicist to come in and explain the physics behind it.  Honestly, I've explained it before and I'm tired of it.  It's a fact and if you don't want to take my word for it I don't care, almost no one on this forum listens anyway.  

As for Hogan:  what defines a perfect shot?  Is he talking about where he struck it on the clubface or the end result?  What was the context of the quote?  Those things matter.  If Hogan, who is arguably one of the best ballstrikers ever says that he had 3 perfect shots a round, I'm going to wager he means both the strike and the result.  Also, the degree of miss matters.  Just because something isn't dead on the single molecule perfect doesn't meant the result won't be a great shot.  I'd wager of those 40 shots that Hogan hit 39 of them on the sweet spot and some other factor caused them to not be perfect.  Path, clubface angle and a multitude of other things cause bad shots.  Just because you didn't hit it where you wanted doesn't mean it was because you hit it off-center.

And finally, and this is in caps so please read it twice:  I DON'T WANT YOU TO PLAY ANYTHING THAT ISN'T RIGHT FOR YOUR GAME.  I've said it so many times I can't phrase it any other way.  I'm beginning to think everyone here just can't read or maybe you all speak a different language, I can't be any more clear.  The fact of the matter is that your buddy may or may not have a game suited for blades.  In this case you have first hand knowledge of his results, whether you have actually spent some time analyzing his game and swing I don't know.  But I would be willing to bet that even if he started playing GI irons he wouldn't suddenly start trouncing you, it doesn't work that way if you beat him as steadily as you're implying.  If Tiger Woods switched to GI he isn't going to suddenly start winning majors again.  IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.  

If you gain something, you take something else away.  Period. End of story.  There is no utopia, there is no "perfect" golf club any more than there is a "perfect" car or woman or man or food or ANYTHING.  Perfection doesn't exist.  You can strive for it, the pursuit is worthwhile and commendable...but to think that ANYTHING is "one size fits all" is plain ignorant and I'm going to do my best to not say it again.  (we all know I'm going to fail).

[FATC1TY]

I'm a single digit, and my scores are dropping like flies with my AP2 712's..