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Keeping the right foot down


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#1 QWKDTSN

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:17 PM

All, I'm doing a bit of work on my swing.  Not trying to do a major overhaul but trying to improve my action for more consistency in my ballstriking.  I have been watching some SITD videos and one of the things Mike Maves does is keep the right foot down a heck of a lot longer than I do in my swing.  I tried some practice swings out in the yard and it sure felt good but I haven't had a chance to hit balls.  I just got to wondering if the right foot staying down is a product of the way the lower body works or if it's the other way around.  Many good ballstrikers seem to have their back foot roll to the inside before the heel comes off the ground - my foot tends to spin on the toe.

Thoughts?


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#2 -o0DanKNesS0o-

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:27 PM

You can hit a ball with out ever going to your toe.. so long as every other part of the body is where it should be I wouldn't say it.matters.
I'm not a club pro (yet) but I wouldn't worry about that unless you are hitting it thin and not staying down on the ball.

Interesting topic tho and id like to read more opinions. I think a case for keeping the left foot flat on the ground can be had too but ultimately there will be people who make terrific swings on both sides so its all just what works best for your swing.

#3 russc

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:58 PM

View PostQWKDTSN, on 24 April 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

All, I'm doing a bit of work on my swing.  Not trying to do a major overhaul but trying to improve my action for more consistency in my ballstriking.  I have been watching some SITD videos and one of the things Mike Maves does is keep the right foot down a heck of a lot longer than I do in my swing.  I tried some practice swings out in the yard and it sure felt good but I haven't had a chance to hit balls.  I just got to wondering if the right foot staying down is a product of the way the lower body works or if it's the other way around.  Many good ballstrikers seem to have their back foot roll to the inside before the heel comes off the ground - my foot tends to spin on the toe.

Thoughts?
Spinning on the toe could easily mean that you are starting your rotation   before you have established you left pivot point.

#4 CallawayLefty

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:04 PM

View Postrussc, on 24 April 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

View PostQWKDTSN, on 24 April 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

All, I'm doing a bit of work on my swing.  Not trying to do a major overhaul but trying to improve my action for more consistency in my ballstriking.  I have been watching some SITD videos and one of the things Mike Maves does is keep the right foot down a heck of a lot longer than I do in my swing.  I tried some practice swings out in the yard and it sure felt good but I haven't had a chance to hit balls.  I just got to wondering if the right foot staying down is a product of the way the lower body works or if it's the other way around.  Many good ballstrikers seem to have their back foot roll to the inside before the heel comes off the ground - my foot tends to spin on the toe.

Thoughts?
Spinning on the toe could easily mean that you are starting your rotation   before you have established you left pivot point.


Care to elaborate on that russ?  I assume you're talking about basically failing to truly post up on your lead leg, correct?  Any causes you can point to?

Thanks as usual...

#5 DoctorLoomis

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:24 PM

Going into plantar flexion too soon can have devastatingly negative effects on your golf swing. Further, plantar flexion should be a RESULT of the hips pushing the most forward and upward.


#6 QWKDTSN

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

I just want to clarify, by "spinning on the toe" I think what's happening is that in my downswing as the hips turn my right knee goes forward.  Going forward brings the right heel up and out in a circle with the toe pointed down after the strike.  I think the right knee should move more left and less forward, correct?

By the way, I am a TOTAL noob when it comes to talking about the swing, so bear with me.  I am self-taught and have never taken the plunge on learning the technical jargon that so many members here understand and use well.

I'll see if I have a video leftover on my camera from today.

#7 Eag1e

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:28 PM

View PostQWKDTSN, on 24 April 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

I just want to clarify, by "spinning on the toe" I think what's happening is that in my downswing as the hips turn my right knee goes forward.  Going forward brings the right heel up and out in a circle with the toe pointed down after the strike.  I think the right knee should move more left and less forward, correct?

By the way, I am a TOTAL noob when it comes to talking about the swing, so bear with me.  I am self-taught and have never taken the plunge on learning the technical jargon that so many members here understand and use well.

I'll see if I have a video leftover on my camera from today.

I would agree with Russ that this is probably just not getting to your left side enough so you spin out. Simultaneous with the start of your hip rotation, make sure you're pushing your left hip toward the target. The left hip starts roughly in line with the left outstep (gets further away as you club up, of course) and you'll see virtually all good players have their left hip well past their left outstep in the downswing (until they get to very long clubs). This'll also coincide with a naturally occurring feeling that you're rolling to the inside of your right foot.

If your left hip stays in line with your left foot and just turns straight back during the downswing you'll drive your right side toward the ball and spin out.

Make sure that when you drive your left hip laterally when you begin rotating, you don't let the head go with it. Head shouldn't move forward more than a centimeter or two pre-impact.

#8 russc

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:54 PM

View PostCallawayLefty, on 24 April 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

View Postrussc, on 24 April 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

View PostQWKDTSN, on 24 April 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

All, I'm doing a bit of work on my swing.  Not trying to do a major overhaul but trying to improve my action for more consistency in my ballstriking.  I have been watching some SITD videos and one of the things Mike Maves does is keep the right foot down a heck of a lot longer than I do in my swing.  I tried some practice swings out in the yard and it sure felt good but I haven't had a chance to hit balls.  I just got to wondering if the right foot staying down is a product of the way the lower body works or if it's the other way around.  Many good ballstrikers seem to have their back foot roll to the inside before the heel comes off the ground - my foot tends to spin on the toe.

Thoughts?
Spinning on the toe could easily mean that you are starting your rotation   before you have established you left pivot point.


Care to elaborate on that russ?  I assume you're talking about basically failing to truly post up on your lead leg, correct?  Any causes you can point to?

Thanks as usual...

No,not really.I am talking about failing to establish your left pivot point over your left heel /ankle  before you start  your rotation .  .I can envision a number of scenarios where this could happen.You could move away from the target laterally on the backswing   and therefore have such a  large lateral distance  to go to reach your left pivot point  that   you are left but  not  left enough when you start your rotation .The second scenario  would occur  when a golfer  moves their hips laterally to start their transition   before he/she establishes his/her   left pivot over the left heel/ankle.This  second scenario is  an  an example of why starting  the transition via  the hips is potentially dangerous .It has to be done from the ground  up.Of course   the hips will quickly be pulled left ,but you need to do it in the right sequence .the last scenario would be backing out of the shot .Again  failure to establish your left pivot point over your left ankle/heel before starting  your rotation
To sum it up coming off of the right heel significantly is almost always a problem.If the foot also is spinning  ,it is  the result of rotating  too early.If your right heel is coming off of the ground too early ,but the heel is not rotating ,you probably have a different  problem and that is too much leg drive.The sure giveaway for this is you are  knees bending and coming too close together on the downswing

Dan has done a very good job with his video on "footwork"Note 5"30-6:30 especially .He may be  exaggerating when he is showing this  problem ,but when he is demonstrating the correct move he is correct.

One point about posting u,.it is a great thought for those golfers who keep their knees bent too much into their follow through .Ideally for most golfers the left leg should be in the process of straightening at impact and not straight.

#9 QWKDTSN

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:59 PM

Great explanation Eagle!  I don't have a face-on video to study but I think you've hit the nail on the head.

I know I have a decent impact position, I generally hit the ball solid and pretty straight.  My usual miss is to come a little inside and shut on the backswing and make a small over the top move at transition which results in a fade.  I do tend to hit the ball fairly high even with X100 shafts, does it sound reasonable that not getting the lateral bump to the left and spinning out as you're describing would mean less forward shaft lean and higher shots?

Russ, I will have to re-read your post and give it some thought but I have the feeling that my left leg is pretty straight at impact (I have noted that it feels too straight sometimes) but I would have to look at video to verify that this feeling is actually at impact and not after.

Going to start reading up on the proper things to be doing...  Just standing here doing some basic practice swings and exaggerating moving my hips left before turning definitely feels good.  Wish I had a ligthed range to hit at.

#10 QMany

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:11 PM

Russc. Again, your contributions are invaluable.

I need to work on my footwork.

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#11 poizster

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:50 PM

I struggle with my right heel coming off the ground as well. For me a lot of it has to do with poor ankle and internal hip mobility. I will often fold up a towel, lay it on the ground, and place my right foot on it so the outside of my right foot is on the towel and my instep is touching the ground. This gives me the feeling of storing all the energy and power on the instep of my right foot and allows me to role onto my right toe instead of popping up my heel. Ideally, the right foot should stay on the ground at impact and is only pulled up in reaction to the arms raising in the follow through.

Edited by poizster, 24 April 2012 - 09:51 PM.


#12 russc

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:28 PM

Slicefixer :the MacGyver of golf

My link


#13 QWKDTSN

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:49 PM

Perfect!  Amazing.  Going to have to hit the range.

This thread came about because I have not looked at my swing on video in well over a year.  I also have not been visiting the range very often (the range here is very poor with terrible balls and a constant side wind).  However I have been hitting the ball well on the course... better than my swing indicates.  I am going to really try not to work on too many things at once (I also need to work on the angles of my forearms, hands and club in the backswing to stop that shut takeaway and OTT move) but I am going to find and practice the correct action because I am now sure I have a power leak in my swing due to improper movement of the hips / pivot.

Thanks again.

#14 jeffkriz

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:12 PM

I highly recommend this video:




He talks about how keeping your right foot on the ground will drive your left hip out of the way, gives your arms room to sling through the hitting zone, and maintains your spine angle.

#15 russc

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:14 PM

I have not looked at  my swing in a day ,because i ran out of air sickness bags.


#16 joeunc

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:55 AM

Good video +1

View Postjeffkriz, on 25 April 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

I highly recommend this video:




He talks about how keeping your right foot on the ground will drive your left hip out of the way, gives your arms room to sling through the hitting zone, and maintains your spine angle.


#17 kellygreen

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:58 AM

View PostQWKDTSN, on 24 April 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

All, I'm doing a bit of work on my swing.  Not trying to do a major overhaul but trying to improve my action for more consistency in my ballstriking.  I have been watching some SITD videos and one of the things Mike Maves does is keep the right foot down a heck of a lot longer than I do in my swing.  I tried some practice swings out in the yard and it sure felt good but I haven't had a chance to hit balls.  I just got to wondering if the right foot staying down is a product of the way the lower body works or if it's the other way around.  Many good ballstrikers seem to have their back foot roll to the inside before the heel comes off the ground - my foot tends to spin on the toe.

Thoughts?

Chicken-and-egg.

Good footwork promotes the proper use of the lower body, and proper use of the lower body promotes good footwork.

If you are spinning out onto your right toe at impact, it suggest to me that you are over-exaggerating the lower body.    Usually the result of "hip" oriented swing keys.  leading to spinning them out.
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#18 The Boom Bapp

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:57 AM

Keeping the right foot down until impact promotes STABILITY.
Helps the hips rotate the torso through the ball while keeping your left arm underneath the chin for power , compression, and consistency.
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#19 CallawayLefty

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:50 PM

Just happened to catch this video on youtube.  See the 1:15 mark for what a right foot is supposed to look like at impact (and actually several frames beyond if you notice).  It's amazing to watch it that close up...think about where your foot might be at at the same time (I know where mine tends to get when I'm hitting it like crap).



#20 HoosierMizuno

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

This thread has helped my game a ton. of all the things i was looking at in fixing my swing this is something i overlooked especially when trying to keep my spine angle

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#21 fore_life

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:48 PM

I watched a video of mine, now looks like I need to watch these!
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#22 QWKDTSN

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:35 AM

Thanks for posting the Shawn Clement video!  I will be the first to admit that I don't take enough tidbits of advice from Shawn.  I subscribe to his videos and always watch them but he is not my ideal swing model.  However, he explained this concept very well.

I got up this morning before dawn and headed to the course.  I've really been wanting to work on my swing but I haven't had a chance - I work night shift, and I'm usually sleeping during the early morning when it is cool.  During midday it's so oppressively hot and humid that hitting balls at the range, which has no shade, is not something I want to do.

I actually had two things I wanted to work on simultaneously today, which isn't the best idea, but I just jumped right in and played 18 practice holes.  The first thing I wanted to work on was opening the club on the backswing, since I was keeping it very shut before, and the other, of course, was keeping the right foot down.  Without any practice I hit the ball very well around the course!

Talk about compression... I definitely hit the ball more solidly when I kept the foot down through impact.  Nice divot with every club.  It took a few swings to get the ball going the right direction;  By keeping the foot down and allowing the left hip to rotate back, it definitely requires the right shoulder to have a feeling of going more under, rather than around.  I waited a few holes before teeing up the driver and I made a nice coil, better wrist **** with the more open clubface and slightly cupped left wrist, forced myself to keep that right foot down on the ground all the way through impact, and nutted it.  Felt REALLY GOOD.  Made a couple of birdies, which is great for me when playing a practice round!

Really looking forward to getting out there again!!  Tomorrow I'd like to hit the range in the morning while it is cool and then play another practice round in the late afternoon.

Thanks so much for all of your valuable contributions to this thread guys.  I'm glad to hear it is helping a few other people too.

#23 CallawayLefty

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:14 AM

Another good video that I have always liked on this topic:



Slicefixer himself.  If you watch this (and many of the other videos of his guys), you see the right foot kind of "bounces" after impact and only comes up when it is naturally pulled up by the body being turned through to the other side.  This is basically full speed action of the David Toms video I posted above.

#24 -o0DanKNesS0o-

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 02:16 PM

For the sake of argument... The best swing probably in the  history of the sport disagrees with you guys..

View PostThe Gachet, on 25 April 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:




#25 fore_life

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

I focused yesterday on really making sure my right foot banks instead on going onto my toe early and what a huge difference it made in not only my ball striking but in keeping my swing I sequence. Good stuff!

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#26 russc

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:55 PM

View Post-o0DanKNesS0o-, on 29 April 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

For the sake of argument... The best swing probably in the  history of the sport disagrees with you guys..

View PostThe Gachet, on 25 April 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:



With a driver the right foot will be slightly more off than the ground that with the irons.You can look at a huge number of videos of top players and see that that right foot does not off the ground early and much .
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#27 bm303

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:06 PM

This has always been my main swing thought. If I keep my right foot down until after impact I hit the ball great. If it comes up too early I chunk it, thin it, and can't hit them consistent.

#28 PingG10guy

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:25 PM

View Postrussc, on 24 April 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

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That's awesome.  wow.

Another thing I would like to add about guys reading this stuff and thinking of trying it.  Dont do what I did last year lol.  If you deliberately try and keep the right foot flat and still turn too early then your right hip can go kinda out and under your spine and it is a great recipe to get a lower back spasm.  Do the changes in slow motion to feel it.  And make smaller and smooth tempo swings as others said.  Do not try and kill balls and hold the right foot down at first.

Going more lateral before the turn is how the right foot stays flat and banks.

Another idea Ive been toying with...just bought some Vibram Fivefingers and hitting balls on the range is a great eye opener with them as you are basically hitting balls barefooted.  It is a great eye opener to actually feel what your feet are doing.  The tennis racket is a much cheaper option, but I honestly feel like running and working out in the Vibrams strengthens the feet and toes.  I could def use a little more stability

#29 -o0DanKNesS0o-

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 04:17 PM

View Postrussc, on 29 April 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

View Post-o0DanKNesS0o-, on 29 April 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

For the sake of argument... The best swing probably in the  history of the sport disagrees with you guys..

View PostThe Gachet, on 25 April 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:



With a driver the right foot will be slightly more off than the ground that with the irons.You can look at a huge number of videos of top players and see that that right foot does not off the ground early and much .
My link
My link

My link

Not sure i follow you.. with all due respect I posted a video of tiger when he was swinging his best, an iron shot, with his right foot coming up early and well up at impact. Then you post videos of the same thing w two of them being drivers. You did say w the driver your right foot will get up sooner and higher then an iron but the Rory video has his foot coming up just after transition and more then a couple inches w his left arm parallel to the ground.
Not sure I understand this thread at all. I for one will NOT be trying to keep my foot down. What ever works for your swing i guess.

#30 russc

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 05:14 PM

View Post-o0DanKNesS0o-, on 29 April 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

For the sake of argument... The best swing probably in the  history of the sport disagrees with you guys..

View PostThe Gachet, on 25 April 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:





With a driver the right foot will be slightly more off than the ground that with the irons.You can look at a huge number of videos of top players and see that that right foot does not off the ground early and much .
My link
My link

My link

Not sure i follow you.. with all due respect I posted a video of tiger when he was swinging his best, an iron shot, with his right foot coming up early and well up at impact. Then you post videos of the same thing w two of them being drivers. You did say w the driver your right foot will get up sooner and higher then an iron but the Rory video has his foot coming up just after transition and more then a couple inches w his left arm parallel to the ground.
Not sure I understand this thread at all. I for one will NOT be trying to keep my foot down. What ever works for your swing i guess.

Really .You are obviously not looking at the same videos as i posted .Ernie has his right heel coming off of the ground a very small amount.Rory's transition  occurs as his upper body is still going back .His heel does not come off of the ground anywhere near that point.It is off of the ground by the time his arm is parallel to the ground; at impact the amount that Rory's heel is off of the ground is not nearly as much as the Tiger video that you mentioned.The further that you have to go to your left pivot point and the more that your  hips are open at impact the more the right heel will be off of the ground.Rory and Tiger both had(have) among the fastest rotation and most open hips  in history .If you share this quality ,I am envious
Look at these videos the first is  Robert Rock and the second is Tiger through the years
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Invariably amateurs whose right heel comes off of the ground too much and too early are either failing to establish their left pivot point over their left heel/ankle and  start their  rotation too early  or have so much leg drive that their rotation is minimized.


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