130 replies to this topic

[grizzlyblades]

i'm curious who will win out of the top teachers in the US in one round of golf? that would be very interesting to watch.

i'm sure there are very good teachers who can't perform too well on the course. which is why they are teachers. however, if i'm not mistaken you have to have a decent handicap to become a pro teacher!

[TheJollyGolfer]

grizzlyblades, on 25 April 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

i'm curious who will win out of the top teachers in the US in one round of golf? that would be very interesting to watch.

i'm sure there are very good teachers who can't perform too well on the course. which is why they are teachers. however, if i'm not mistaken you have to have a decent handicap to become a pro teacher!

From my experience if you had a field of 100 average teachers, you would probably get about five at par or better. If the course was close to tour standard you'd get a fair few scores in the 90's and very few close to par.

[kellygreen]

TheJollyGolfer, on 25 April 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

grizzlyblades, on 25 April 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

i'm curious who will win out of the top teachers in the US in one round of golf? that would be very interesting to watch.

i'm sure there are very good teachers who can't perform too well on the course. which is why they are teachers. however, if i'm not mistaken you have to have a decent handicap to become a pro teacher!

From my experience if you had a field of 100 average teachers, you would probably get about five at par or better. If the course was close to tour standard you'd get a fair few scores in the 90's and very few close to par.

Disagree.

If it were set up to major championship standards, I think you might see quite a few club pros shoot in the 90s.....but then your average low-handiacapper would probably struggle to break a 100.

Typical tour set up...and you'd get a spread of scores in the 70s and 80s.   The biggest thing that would give them trouble would be the speed of the greens and the amount of rough around the greens.

[MonteScheinblum]

kellygreen, on 25 April 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

TheJollyGolfer, on 25 April 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

grizzlyblades, on 25 April 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

i'm curious who will win out of the top teachers in the US in one round of golf? that would be very interesting to watch.

i'm sure there are very good teachers who can't perform too well on the course. which is why they are teachers. however, if i'm not mistaken you have to have a decent handicap to become a pro teacher!

From my experience if you had a field of 100 average teachers, you would probably get about five at par or better. If the course was close to tour standard you'd get a fair few scores in the 90's and very few close to par.

Disagree.

If it were set up to major championship standards, I think you might see quite a few club pros shoot in the 90s.....but then your average low-handiacapper would probably struggle to break a 100.

Typical tour set up...and you'd get a spread of scores in the 70s and 80s.   The biggest thing that would give them trouble would be the speed of the greens and the amount of rough around the greens.

One thing people always leave out in this discussion are pins that are set near the slopes and 3-4 paces from the edges/water/bunkers.

You can make the local muni play 5 shots harder by setting the pins like this.

[gettingworse]

I have mixed feelings about this one. My sport is rugby,if any of my coaches had stepped on the field with us they would probably left in a box. However I played for some fine coaches who could teach so much better than I could, as I have found out now that I am coaching my son's U16 team. Rugby was a natural thing for me, I didn't have to think deeply about it so in essence know less about the teaching of the game than some others who have played at a lower level.

As a kid I only played 3 or 4 rounds a year but from the age of 13 would always shoot in the 80s at the local munis. My folks had a farm so hitting balls here and there was easy for me and my short irons and short game was pretty good thus leading to decent play when I did get to the course. Other sports always took priority for me and it wasn't until I tore my ACL and had 4 toes on my right foot fused together that I turned my attention to golf at the age of 30. I joined a club and started playing 3 times a week and got down to a UK 8 handicap in 2 years.
At this point my wife bought me lessons at a local club,Wentworth. My teacher was to be Ross Fisher, a young kid at the time. I was looking forward to the lessons (never had any before) and thought that this was what was going to take me to the next level. Ross asked me to hit a few 7 irons and each of them were 175 yards on a nice trajectory. He basically told me I was useless and couldn't believe that I can shoot the scores that I do,not  a great start. He said that I am only hitting good shots because I play alot and have good hand eye co-ordination.He then tried to make changes to everything all at once, grip,posture,takeaway. I tried to explain  to him that I had physical restrictions (the ACL,the toes,arthritus in the right hand, a left arm that had been broken 5 times in 6 years including a severe elbow break etc) but it seemed that he could only teach one way.
I had a course of 6 lessons, I attended the first 3 and didn't go back. My game slipped to a standard where I couldn't cope with it and my right knee was permanently full of fluid and was not holding up. I stopped playing entirely for 5 years, my game and confidence were shattered and I had stopped enjoying it.
Since I picked the clubs up again (7years ago) I have improved to a 3 handicap and this poor instruction (from a very nice young chap to be fair and a great player) has put me off ever having another lesson again.

Moral of the story, just because someone hits a better ball than you, it doesn't mean that they have a good set of ears or the ability to convey their thoughts well. It also doesn't mean that they know the swing and teaching techniques as well as someone who may be an inferior player. But what do I know about what makes a good teacher, they all scare me now and i avoid them like the mother in law!

[rvs0002]

gettingworse:
Interesting and a great story! Thanks for sharing.

John

[kellygreen]

MonteScheinblum, on 25 April 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

One thing people always leave out in this discussion are pins that are set near the slopes and 3-4 paces from the edges/water/bunkers.

You can make the local muni play 5 shots harder by setting the pins like this.

Good point.

Especially if the track is long enough that they are having to fire long irons into the par 3s, and 5- and 6- irons into the par 4s.

[northgolf]

kellygreen, on 26 April 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 25 April 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

One thing people always leave out in this discussion are pins that are set near the slopes and 3-4 paces from the edges/water/bunkers.

You can make the local muni play 5 shots harder by setting the pins like this.

Good point.

Especially if the track is long enough that they are having to fire long irons into the par 3s, and 5- and 6- irons into the par 4s.

Teaches course management.  I gather the 5 strokes are either fewer short birdie putts and the penalty for missing the pin on the wrong side, or is it more if you go the penalty route?

[kellygreen]

northgolf, on 26 April 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

kellygreen, on 26 April 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 25 April 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

One thing people always leave out in this discussion are pins that are set near the slopes and 3-4 paces from the edges/water/bunkers.

You can make the local muni play 5 shots harder by setting the pins like this.

Good point.

Especially if the track is long enough that they are having to fire long irons into the par 3s, and 5- and 6- irons into the par 4s.

Teaches course management.  I gather the 5 strokes are either fewer short birdie putts and the penalty for missing the pin on the wrong side, or is it more if you go the penalty route?

Depends on the player....and the course.  

If it is a good player---or a not-particuarlly-penal course---the strokes will generally come from fewer birdie putts, and failures to get up-and-down on missed greens.

The worse the player...and the more penal the defenses around the green...the greater the opportunity for lost shots, and the bigger the numbers.

[isaacbm]

grizzlyblades, on 25 April 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

i'm curious who will win out of the top teachers in the US in one round of golf? that would be very interesting to watch.

i'm sure there are very good teachers who can't perform too well on the course. which is why they are teachers. however, if i'm not mistaken you have to have a decent handicap to become a pro teacher!

I played with Jim Mclean 12 years ago at the stadium course at PGA West.  This was with some pretty old equipment at the time.  Balatas and 250 cc drivers.  He shot the easiest 67 from the tips you've ever seen.  Not sure what he could do now but that left a lasting impression on me at the time.

[lookma_nobackswing]

gettingworse, on 26 April 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

My teacher was to be Ross Fisher, a young kid at the time. I was looking forward to the lessons (never had any before) and thought that this was what was going to take me to the next level. Ross asked me to hit a few 7 irons and each of them were 175 yards on a nice trajectory. He basically told me I was useless and couldn't believe that I can shoot the scores that I do,not  a great start. He said that I am only hitting good shots because I play alot and have good hand eye co-ordination.He then tried to make changes to everything all at once, grip,posture,takeaway. I tried to explain  to him that I had physical restrictions (the ACL,the toes,arthritus in the right hand, a left arm that had been broken 5 times in 6 years including a severe elbow break etc) but it seemed that he could only teach one way.

wow,  to not only fail to help a player, but to drive him from the game!?   that is some bad teaching.   thanks for sharing that though, it inspires me to be the best teacher i can be.