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Big Muscle Swing


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#1 fife321

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:06 PM

Thinking about making a big swing change, need to do something different.  and i know a lot of people here talk about the 'slice fixer' swing and wanted to know the pros and cons of it.  is there a loss of distance, wear and tear on body, difficulty grooving swing, etc..

thanks


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#2 russc

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:41 PM

View Postfife321, on 19 April 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Thinking about making a big swing change, need to do something different.  and i know a lot of people here talk about the 'slice fixer' swing and wanted to know the pros and cons of it.  is there a loss of distance, wear and tear on body, difficulty grooving swing, etc..

thanks

No loss of distance.Probably will hit it farther because you can really swing hard left without having to worry about the ball going left.Once  you learn it ,less dependency on timing by the  hands and wrists.No strong evidence of any swing being harder or easier on the body.A simple swing in that there are fewer moving parts.Biggest problem is overcoming a release dominated by the hands and training yourself to let the pivot dictate the release.It is going to involve a bunch of work.Real problem is the  lack of pros who teach the Slicefixer swing.Many  people who try to learn this swing it via the internet and /or videos  are going to fail.

#3 juststeve

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:13 PM

I believe the vast majority of golfers will find it easier to learn and maintain a swing in which the body responds to the swinging of the club.  Just a few things to do correctly and everything else is a reaction.  The body driven swing I believe requires more fitness, more time to learn and maintain, and more athletic ability than most golfers possess.  For the right person however the body driven swing might be optimal.  

Steve

#4 jabrch

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:56 PM

If you can be precise enough to hit the ball straight, while spending virtually no time with the face on the target line, and with the face only square to the target line at the moment of impact, the swing works.  For me, I feel more comfortable with a swing that is more up and down and more square to the golfball as the face approaches impact.  Less risk of hitting it right or left, and much less risk of bad spin....  Just my 2 cents...different stuff works for different people.  

The Cult of Slicefixer love their ethos...for some, it's the right thing.  I don't have the time or the energy to do a complete swing overhaul anyhow.

Edited by jabrch, 19 April 2012 - 06:58 PM.

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#5 rafal

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:49 PM

View Postjabrch, on 19 April 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

If you can be precise enough to hit the ball straight, while spending virtually no time with the face on the target line, and with the face only square to the target line at the moment of impact, the swing works.  For me, I feel more comfortable with a swing that is more up and down and more square to the golfball as the face approaches impact.  Less risk of hitting it right or left, and much less risk of bad spin....  Just my 2 cents...different stuff works for different people.  

The Cult of Slicefixer love their ethos...for some, it's the right thing.  I don't have the time or the energy to do a complete swing overhaul anyhow.

I like the idea but the delivery is lacking.  The whole "2 years of hitting 9-to-3 wedge" before you can hit anything else and $1000's for trips just to learn golf swing?  It seems overkill and my current golfswing which I developed myself works good enough.

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#6 verderraul

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:01 AM

View Postfife321, on 19 April 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Thinking about making a big swing change, need to do something different.  and i know a lot of people here talk about the 'slice fixer' swing and wanted to know the pros and cons of it.  is there a loss of distance, wear and tear on body, difficulty grooving swing, etc..

thanks

PROS
Loss Of Distance : No, i have gained yardage after i learning how to "thump" the ball.
wear and tear on body : None whatsoever...at least in my case.
difficulty grooving swing : In the long run, much easier to groove than a freakin flip.
Your misses will be much better
You chipping ,pitching will improve since its pivot based as well.

CONS
Requires hard work and patience.
Requires you to go see Geoff in person (There is only so much you can do from ET)

To my view, "turning the body to square up the club" is the only way to swing. I wasted 2 years of my short golf life trying to time a flip. Better late than never.

Cheers

#7 Fort Worth Pro

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:55 AM

View Postrafal, on 19 April 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

View Postjabrch, on 19 April 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

If you can be precise enough to hit the ball straight, while spending virtually no time with the face on the target line, and with the face only square to the target line at the moment of impact, the swing works.  For me, I feel more comfortable with a swing that is more up and down and more square to the golfball as the face approaches impact.  Less risk of hitting it right or left, and much less risk of bad spin....  Just my 2 cents...different stuff works for different people.  

The Cult of Slicefixer love their ethos...for some, it's the right thing.  I don't have the time or the energy to do a complete swing overhaul anyhow.


I like the idea but the delivery is lacking.  The whole "2 years of hitting 9-to-3 wedge" before you can hit anything else and $1000's for trips just to learn golf swing?  It seems overkill and my current golfswing which I developed myself works good enough.

First to call it a cult is insulting. Many of us are very successful with it and from a biomechanical/physics/geometrical standpoint it is as sound a theory as there is.

Secondly, nobody advocates hittin half shots for 2 years. In fact there are plenty of my students that rarely hit 9-3's. It depends on what they need at the time. If I do have them practice 9-3 I tell them when they go play then they need to forget half shots. Playin a round won't set back what you are working on for any significant period of time. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.

#8 sigmapete1

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:07 AM

My background is someone who went from an active release to following the Slicefixer stuff online through watching videos and filming myself.  Never took the trip to Texarkana nor do I anticipate one soon as I am getting married and buying a home this summer.  I put in the time, but also played a bit too.  After about a year and a half of work...this March, I scored personal course bests at 3 different courses in my first 3 rounds of the year.

(the following are what I experienced, may not apply to everyone)

CONS
-scores went up before they went down
-takes dedication
-takes time
-dealing with range "instructors" who insist you aren't rolling over the wrists correctly
-old release creeps in occasionally (but less and less every round I play)
-requires lots of "dry land" work (ie. no range, no ball, sometimes even no club) to grove


PROS
-off the charts increase in consistency
-same swing for every club, shot height, shot shape (just change the setup/grip)
-increase in distance
-those crazy off the map misses off the tee are becoming more and more rare
-smaller range in scores (don't have as many bad days and my bad days are a lot closer to my good days then they used to be)
-working a drive right to left off the tee to avoid a bunker and catch the downhill slope then working an 8 iron left to right to a back right pin over a bunker and having my buddy say "When in the h*ll did you learn to do THAT!" when I drained the 3 footer!  (sorry that last one was probably more individual than you were looking for but I've never pulled that off before)

#9 kellygreen

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:18 AM

View Postfife321, on 19 April 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Thinking about making a big swing change, need to do something different.  and i know a lot of people here talk about the 'slice fixer' swing and wanted to know the pros and cons of it.  is there a loss of distance, wear and tear on body, difficulty grooving swing, etc..

thanks

Pros (many):

1.  More accurate

2. More consistent

3.  Holds up under pressure without producing a lot of blocks and hooks.

4. Once mastered, very low-maintenance.

5. Finally was able to hit my woods---especially my driver---and not have to worry about hitting the ball offf-the-planet if I made a bad swing.

Cons (few):

1.  Many people will find it (at first) an unnatural movement because there is NO active/conscious use of the hands or arms.  I like the feel to throwing a discus.

2. Because it is an athletic feel that most people are unaccustomed to,  the learning curve is more difficult than teaching someone a reasonable hand-and-arm swing.

3. If you've got a really long-and-lose, hand-and-arm swing, you may find that there is a small TEMPORARY loss of distance.   But once you master keeping the arms connected to the body's rotation, that distance comes back.   Instead of relying on the length of the arm swing for power, the swing draws upon the depth of the turn and the strength of the core muscles for power.

4. You may find that you hit your shots a bit lower.  But its a ballflight that is very strong, penetrating, and stable in the wind.   But you may find that you may need a bit more loft (or a lower kickpoint) on your long clubs....and you might have to pull a long iron out of the bag.

When I finally made the switch and locked in the arm-connection...I found that I simply couldn't hit a blade 2-iron on any kind of usable trajectory.  So I had to pull it out of the bag.   When I later switched to a player's CB, I found I was able to put the club back in because of the higher trajectory the irons produced.

But it was worth the work, because it finally gave me a swing that didn't require me to hit balls 3 days a week in order to keep my timing in shape.   So I could finally work on my short game and putting.
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#10 verderraul

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:25 AM

Sigmapete1,
You are right on target with the range instructors. I meet one or two every month telling me to flip the club.....all I really wanna flip is my middle finger .... At them.


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#11 kellygreen

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:26 AM

View Postrafal, on 19 April 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

View Postjabrch, on 19 April 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

If you can be precise enough to hit the ball straight, while spending virtually no time with the face on the target line, and with the face only square to the target line at the moment of impact, the swing works.  For me, I feel more comfortable with a swing that is more up and down and more square to the golfball as the face approaches impact.  Less risk of hitting it right or left, and much less risk of bad spin....  Just my 2 cents...different stuff works for different people.  

The Cult of Slicefixer love their ethos...for some, it's the right thing.  I don't have the time or the energy to do a complete swing overhaul anyhow.

I like the idea but the delivery is lacking.  The whole "2 years of hitting 9-to-3 wedge" before you can hit anything else and $1000's for trips just to learn golf swing?  It seems overkill and my current golfswing which I developed myself works good enough.

It isn't a "cult"...and Slicefixer teaches what many people call a "body-release swing".  

I was fortunate enough to have an LPGA pro here (has won her regional Pro of the Year award multiple times) in Central Ohio who was able to teach me a swing that was very similar.   In fact the swing is SO low-maintenance that she lost me as a customer.  

There are so few moving parts, that on the rare occasions I run into a problem, its a simple matter for me to fix it.

No one is saying you have to swing this way.   But the OP asked for us to compare this kind of swing, to a two-plane, rolling-release type swing....and the advantages it has over the two-plane swing are undeniable.  But it comes at the price of having to do a lot of work intially to master it, because it demands that people do (and trust) a motion that doesn't come naturally to them at first.
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#12 Yuck

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:49 PM

I will disagree on speed / distance gain for all players.  If you currently hit it very long with a sling /stall / timed flip type of move, you may not be able to generate the same speed with a core driven move.  I lose nearly ten mph swing speed with a body driven move  (117 down to 108), and I am not strong or athletic enough to generate that type of speed with my core but I can with my previously described, timing dependent, inconsistent move.  All the other positives indicate by other posters I agree with and if you do not already have a very high swing speed with your previous method, you will not lose any speed.

#13 Kiwi2

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:18 PM

View Postkellygreen, on 20 April 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

It isn't a "cult"...


I have to disagree.

But, I think there is a lot of substance behind what he appears to teach.


cult
   [kuhlt]  Show IPA noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
ven·er·a·tion
   [ven-uh-rey-shuhn]  Show IPA noun 1. the act of venerating. 2. the state of being venerated. 3. the feeling of a person who venerates; a feeling of awe, respect, etc.; reverence: They were filled with veneration for their priests. 4. an expression of this feeling: A memorial was erected in veneration of the dead of both world wars.

#14 kellygreen

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:28 PM

View PostKiwi2, on 20 April 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

But, I think there is a lot of substance behind what he appears to teach.

The fact that you acknowledge that there is a "lot of substance" to what he teaches, tends to contradict your characterizing his students and teaching method as a "cult".


con·no·ta·tion
   /ˌkɒnəˈteɪʃən/ Show Spelled[kon-uh-tey-shuhn] Show IPA noun

the associated or secondary meaning of a word or expression in addition to its explicit or primary meaning: A possible connotation of “home” is “a place of warmth, comfort, and affection.”

Or in the case of a "cult"...


a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents
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#15 kellygreen

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:31 PM

View Postyuck, on 20 April 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

I will disagree on speed / distance gain for all players.  If you currently hit it very long with a sling /stall / timed flip type of move, you may not be able to generate the same speed with a core driven move.  I lose nearly ten mph swing speed with a body driven move  (117 down to 108), and I am not strong or athletic enough to generate that type of speed with my core but I can with my previously described, timing dependent, inconsistent move.  All the other positives indicate by other posters I agree with and if you do not already have a very high swing speed with your previous method, you will not lose any speed.

Good point.

I was posting with the assumption that the player is fit, and has core flexibility and strength.

We do have to add that to the list of "cons".  If you do not have that flexibility and core strength, the player trying to learn a body-release swing will likely find it frustrating, and may lose clubhead speed.

In my own case, I have that, and (once grooved) saw no loss in distance....but a huge increase in accuracy and consistency.

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#16 Kiwi2

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:51 PM

View Postkellygreen, on 20 April 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

View PostKiwi2, on 20 April 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

But, I think there is a lot of substance behind what he appears to teach.

The fact that you acknowledge that there is a "lot of substance" to what he teaches, tends to contradict your


con·no·ta·tion
   /ˌkɒnəˈteɪʃən/ Show Spelled[kon-uh-tey-shuhn] Show IPA noun

the associated or secondary meaning of a word or expression in addition to its explicit or primary meaning: A possible connotation of "home" is "a place of warmth, comfort, and affection."

Or in the case of a "cult"...


a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents

Current popular usage does not define meaning. It defines one meaning.

There is no contradiction.

Slicefixers following on this db is cultist.

#17 Thrillhouse

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:13 PM

Im going to say the same thing I say about the stack and tilt deal, its a fine way to swing the club, and like all fine ways to swing the club some players are going to ingrain it and have success with it. That being said will it work for everybody? unfortunately, no it wont, no method does. Is it the best method out there? who knows, there are a lot of them out there and a lot of them work, its the best method for some people, others probably not. Is it a cult? I dunno, but it has a following on this site that is largely based on the fact that he was so involved here. If he wasn't such an active poster back in the day and was just another guy who made a bunch of youtube videos he might have a following here, but it wouldn't be like it is at this point. To that point, what he is teaching is very similar to what Bradley Hughes has put up on youtube lately, its very similar to what Mac O'Grady teaches, and its very similar to what Jimmy Ballard teaches (he admits he had a lot of success with Ballard's method). Yet these teachers do not have the same kind of following on this site that slicefixer does, thats a fact.

To what he teaches, im glad that a lot of you guys have worked at it and are having success with it, congratulations for that, well done. I have posted my trials when I was playing mini tour golf with my swing. I was a decent player coming out of amateur and college golf, not great but I was ok, good enough to make cuts. I had a smooth tempo, hit a lot of good positions, nice body movement, and yes, I squared the club up with an aggressive hands release through the ball (cf). Even though this release pattern gets so much flak on this site I was a really straight driver of the ball with this method. Unfortunately I went through a back injury and after that while I was struggling I went to many teachers to try to fix it. I spent the better part of 3 years working on various methods many of whom tried to teach me this similar release style. My injury didn't help matters any but I went way backwards trying to implement this type of move, I was missing it both ways and couldn't find the golf course. At the end of my dilemma I worked with a golf magazine top 100 teacher who worked for a golf magazine top 10 teacher who is a notorious guy who gets ripped on a fair amount on this site. Their method of instruction and theory was more old school, was more traditional, and yes, taught the cf release that I had so much success with that so many of you guys hate so much. The injury forced me to stop playing before what they taught me could take hold and I wound up quitting the game for a while but since getting back into it I have worked pretty hard on building the swing they were trying to teach me with the release that worked so well in my junior and amateur days and you know what? i'm finally back to where I was, and hitting it so well that i'm even contemplating playing some mini tour golf this summer.

Im not trying to knock slicefixer or what he teaches, im just trying to make the point that what is right for one person is not necessarily right for another. You have to find your own way in this game, what is different is not necessarily incorrect. And to the OP, if you like the method try it! You might find it is just what you are looking for like some other posters have said, or you might find its not for you. Either way thats part of the process.

#18 Kiwi2

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:18 PM

View PostThrillhouse, on 20 April 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Im going to say the same thing I say about the stack and tilt deal, its a fine way to swing the club, and like all fine ways to swing the club some players are going to ingrain it and have success with it. That being said will it work for everybody? unfortunately, no it wont, no method does. Is it the best method out there? who knows, there are a lot of them out there and a lot of them work, its the best method for some people, others probably not. Is it a cult? I dunno, but it has a following on this site that is largely based on the fact that he was so involved here. If he wasn't such an active poster back in the day and was just another guy who made a bunch of youtube videos he might have a following here, but it wouldn't be like it is at this point. To that point, what he is teaching is very similar to what Bradley Hughes has put up on youtube lately, its very similar to what Mac O'Grady teaches, and its very similar to what Jimmy Ballard teaches (he admits he had a lot of success with Ballard's method). Yet these teachers do not have the same kind of following on this site that slicefixer does, thats a fact.

.......


Excellent post.

#19 kellygreen

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:19 PM

View PostKiwi2, on 20 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

View Postkellygreen, on 20 April 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

View PostKiwi2, on 20 April 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

But, I think there is a lot of substance behind what he appears to teach.

The fact that you acknowledge that there is a "lot of substance" to what he teaches, tends to contradict your


con·no·ta·tion
   /ˌkɒnəˈteɪʃən/ Show Spelled[kon-uh-tey-shuhn] Show IPA noun

the associated or secondary meaning of a word or expression in addition to its explicit or primary meaning: A possible connotation of "home" is "a place of warmth, comfort, and affection."

Or in the case of a "cult"...


a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents

Current popular usage does not define meaning. It defines one meaning.

There is no contradiction.

Slicefixers following on this db is cultist.

Words don't exist in a vaccuum.  They exist in a cultural context.  

So---unless you really want to have your own PRIVATE vocabulary, rather than effectively communicate---then common usage DOES define the (situation) appropriate use of a word.  

A high-class escort IS (technically) a hooker...but I wouldn't call her that to her face.

You might not like her reaction.
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#20 Kiwi2

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:32 PM

Words don't exist in a vaccuum.  They exist in a cultural context.

And the cullture and context is this DB



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#21 kellygreen

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:18 PM

View PostKiwi2, on 20 April 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Words don't exist in a vaccuum.  They exist in a cultural context.

And the cullture and context is this DB




No, the culture and context is the entire English-speaking world.

You can have your own personal vocabulary and connotative meanings...but they are just that....

....personal.

You cannot just simply wipe away the negative, exploitative meaning that the vast majority of English-speakers associate with the word "cult", simply because you find it inconvenient.
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#22 kellygreen

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:27 PM

View PostThrillhouse, on 20 April 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Im going to say the same thing I say about the stack and tilt deal, its a fine way to swing the club, and like all fine ways to swing the club some players are going to ingrain it and have success with it. That being said will it work for everybody? unfortunately, no it wont, no method does. Is it the best method out there? who knows, there are a lot of them out there and a lot of them work, its the best method for some people, others probably not. Is it a cult? I dunno, but it has a following on this site that is largely based on the fact that he was so involved here. If he wasn't such an active poster back in the day and was just another guy who made a bunch of youtube videos he might have a following here, but it wouldn't be like it is at this point. To that point, what he is teaching is very similar to what Bradley Hughes has put up on youtube lately, its very similar to what Mac O'Grady teaches, and its very similar to what Jimmy Ballard teaches (he admits he had a lot of success with Ballard's method). Yet these teachers do not have the same kind of following on this site that slicefixer does, thats a fact.

To what he teaches, im glad that a lot of you guys have worked at it and are having success with it, congratulations for that, well done. I have posted my trials when I was playing mini tour golf with my swing. I was a decent player coming out of amateur and college golf, not great but I was ok, good enough to make cuts. I had a smooth tempo, hit a lot of good positions, nice body movement, and yes, I squared the club up with an aggressive hands release through the ball (cf). Even though this release pattern gets so much flak on this site I was a really straight driver of the ball with this method. Unfortunately I went through a back injury and after that while I was struggling I went to many teachers to try to fix it. I spent the better part of 3 years working on various methods many of whom tried to teach me this similar release style. My injury didn't help matters any but I went way backwards trying to implement this type of move, I was missing it both ways and couldn't find the golf course. At the end of my dilemma I worked with a golf magazine top 100 teacher who worked for a golf magazine top 10 teacher who is a notorious guy who gets ripped on a fair amount on this site. Their method of instruction and theory was more old school, was more traditional, and yes, taught the cf release that I had so much success with that so many of you guys hate so much. The injury forced me to stop playing before what they taught me could take hold and I wound up quitting the game for a while but since getting back into it I have worked pretty hard on building the swing they were trying to teach me with the release that worked so well in my junior and amateur days and you know what? i'm finally back to where I was, and hitting it so well that i'm even contemplating playing some mini tour golf this summer.

Im not trying to knock slicefixer or what he teaches, im just trying to make the point that what is right for one person is not necessarily right for another. You have to find your own way in this game, what is different is not necessarily incorrect. And to the OP, if you like the method try it! You might find it is just what you are looking for like some other posters have said, or you might find its not for you. Either way thats part of the process.

I'm glad that you had success with that type of swing....and I for one have no problem with it.

The point is that it takes a significant amount of athletic ability...and a lot of maintenance in order to play consistent golf that way.   Some people have the athleticism, and innate sense of rhythm and timing to do so.  You clearly do.   Most people don't.

...and even those who do find that they start having problems playing that way as they age, and their athletic ability starts to wane.

The take home message is NOT that people who find success with your kind of swing should stop using it.  The take home message is that for the myriad of golfers (including this former D-I college baseball player) who find it very difficult to play consistently in that fashion...that there are other ways to swing the club that promote consistency in a way that many people will find easier to master.

But all methods have their limitations.   Forget about the body release swing if you don't have good core strength and flexibility.
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#23 rafal

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:31 PM

The cultish thing about slicefixer is that he is VERY CRITICAL of other methods of release.  I fail to see how he can demonstrate scientifically if his method is actually superior.  I do like his release pattern but I wouldn't go as far as him in saying it's superior...it really depends on the individual.

Edited by rafal, 20 April 2012 - 06:32 PM.

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#24 farmer

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:04 PM

Good post, Thrillhouse.  My question is why this method produces a simpler release.  You still take it back, you still hinge your wrists, and at some point all this has to be reversed to get the club back to the ball.

#25 russc

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:57 PM

View PostThrillhouse, on 20 April 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

.
To that point, what he is teaching is very similar to what Bradley Hughes has put up on youtube lately, its very similar to what Mac O'Grady teaches, and its very similar to what Jimmy Ballard teaches (he admits he had a lot of success with Ballard's method). Yet these teachers do not have the same kind of following on this site that slicefixer does, thats a fact.



Thrillhouse
You have a lot of credibility on this post ,but on this subject you are just plain ignorant.Now I do not know what Mr Ogrady teaches as I have found it difficult to find printed or visual material  by Mr Ogrady,  so  I can  not compare what he teaches to what Slicefixer teaches .I would appreciate it if you could point me towards some of his written  material  
While ,some  of  Mr Ballard's  and Slicefixer's ideas do have some similarities ,notably in Mr Ballard's connection concept and braced right knee ,the differences are so extreme in other areas as to be unrecognizable.You do not need in depth knowledge of the Slicefixer swing to   understand  that Rocco Mediate  is NOT a model for the Slicefixer swing .
Bradley and Slicefixer do  teach very similar releases ,but  on many other parts of the swing ,they are not comparable in their approach.
The Slicefixer swing and the S+t swing also converge  on some key points,but are completely different on others.Would call them very similar?





We went through this late last fall , but it still appears that you have not looked very deeply into what Slicefixer teaches,so please do not make comparisons without adequate information .

Edited by russc, 20 April 2012 - 08:06 PM.


#26 bscinstnct

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:02 PM

I have been on golfwrx for years, always looking for good info

I know slicefixer is well known and respected

I would love to hear his key idea explained in one short paragraph

Just as any solution should be able to be summarized in a simple, elegant manner

E=mc2

#27 russc

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:07 PM

View Postbscinstnct, on 20 April 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I have been on golfwrx for years, always looking for good info

I know slicefixer is well known and respected

I would love to hear his key idea explained in one short paragraph

Just as any solution should be able to be summarized in a simple, elegant manner

E=mc2


Windup around a  slightly tilted spine going back and unwind around a tilted spine going down ,after establishing your left pivot point over your left heel/ankle.On the downswing  there should be no manipulation by the hands or wrists  since   the club will square up naturally as a result of your left turning pivot.Very little lateral motion on the backswing,while lateral motion on the downswing should be limited to that needed to establish your left pivot point as above.From just before to just after impact the upper arms should be closely attached to the torso.This requires  open hips at impact.This  can not be done with straight arms at impact.This can not be done with a rollover release.


Sorry for so many words

Edited by russc, 20 April 2012 - 09:15 PM.


#28 Thrillhouse

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:12 PM

View Postrussc, on 20 April 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 20 April 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

.
To that point, what he is teaching is very similar to what Bradley Hughes has put up on youtube lately, its very similar to what Mac O'Grady teaches, and its very similar to what Jimmy Ballard teaches (he admits he had a lot of success with Ballard's method). Yet these teachers do not have the same kind of following on this site that slicefixer does, thats a fact.



Thrillhouse
You have a lot of credibility on this post ,but on this subject you are just plain ignorant.Now I do not know what Mr Ogrady teaches as I have found it difficult to find printed or visual material  by Mr Ogrady,  so  I can  not compare what he teaches to what Slicefixer teaches .I would appreciate it if you could point me towards some of his written  material  
While ,some  of  Mr Ballard's  and Slicefixer's ideas do have some similarities ,notably in Mr Ballard's connection concept and braced right knee ,the differences are so extreme in other areas as to be unrecognizable.You do not need in depth knowledge of the Slicefixer swing to   understand  that Rocco Mediate  is NOT a model for the Slicefixer swing .
Bradley and Slicefixer do  teach very similar releases ,but  on many other parts of the swing ,they are not comparable in their approach.
The Slicefixer swing and the S+t swing also converge  on some key points,but are completely different on others.Would call them very similar?





We went through this late last fall , but it still appears that you have not looked very deeply into what Slicefixer teaches,so please do not make comparisons without adequate information .

Ignorant huh? before I even get into why that is way out of line how bout you put up your swing so we can all see what you actually know about this game, mines up.

First of all, If you don't know what O'Grady teaches then how would you have any idea if i'm ignorant or not? How would you have any idea if what he teaches is similar to what slicefixer teaches or not? And FWIW you know just as well as I do that he hasn't published anything so why bring it up?

Slicefixer admitted in one of his interviews on youtube that he "had a lot of success with what Ballard teaches". He got a lot of his ideas from Ballard, of course he isn't teaching the exact same thing but he has been inspired by it and has admitted as such.

I never said Rocco Mediate is a model for the slicefixer swing, so I have no idea why you said that. For the record Jimmy Ballard has worked with a lot of tour players over the years, his success goes way past what you saw on an infomercial on the golf channel.

If Bradley and Slicefixer are teaching similar things and you admit as such then I guess i'm not ignorant to what slicefixer teaches after all.

I don't see anything about S and T in my quoted section, I have no idea why you brought that up.

Face it Russc, I played at a high level for years, spent a ton of time around a bunch of really good teachers, and have a wide breadth of knowledge about this subject. You're just a random on the internet who got all excited about a teacher who had some ideas you thought were the be all and end all because you haven't been around the block enough times to know that its all been done, written about, and used in competition before. I suggest you SERIOUSLY take another look at yourself and your background in this game before you go calling out someone like that again. In the context of this game this is my house, you're just passing through, show some respect.

we clear?

#29 bscinstnct

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:15 PM

View Postrussc, on 20 April 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

View Postbscinstnct, on 20 April 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I have been on golfwrx for years, always looking for good info

I know slicefixer is well known and respected

I would love to hear his key idea explained in one short paragraph

Just as any solution should be able to be summarized in a simple, elegant manner

E=mc2


Windup around a  slightly tilted spine going back and unwind around a tilted spine going down ,after establishing your left pivot point over your left heel/ankle.On the downswing  there should be no manipulation by the hands or wrists  since  the the club will square up naturally as a result of your left turning pivot.

Sorry for so many words

Sweet, thank you.

I appreciate if my next 2 questions can't be simply answered but pls let me know where to get the info

1. What triggers the downswing

2. Should you feel like you are rotating or like you are making a lateral move on the downswing

#30 russc

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:04 PM

View PostThrillhouse, on 20 April 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

View Postrussc, on 20 April 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Thrillhouse
You have a lot of credibility on this post ,but on this subject you are just plain ignorant.Now I do not know what Mr Ogrady teaches as I have found it difficult to find printed or visual material  by Mr Ogrady,  so  I can  not compare what he teaches to what Slicefixer teaches .I would appreciate it if you could point me towards some of his written  material  
While ,some  of  Mr Ballard's  and Slicefixer's ideas do have some similarities ,notably in Mr Ballard's connection concept and braced right knee ,the differences are so extreme in other areas as to be unrecognizable.You do not need in depth knowledge of the Slicefixer swing to   understand  that Rocco Mediate  is NOT a model for the Slicefixer swing .
Bradley and Slicefixer do  teach very similar releases ,but  on many other parts of the swing ,they are not comparable in their approach.
The Slicefixer swing and the S+t swing also converge  on some key points,but are completely different on others.Would call them very similar?





We went through this late last fall , but it still appears that you have not looked very deeply into what Slicefixer teaches,so please do not make comparisons without adequate information .

Ignorant huh? before I even get into why that is way out of line how bout you put up your swing so we can all see what you actually know about this game, mines up.

First of all, If you don't know what O'Grady teaches then how would you have any idea if i'm ignorant or not? How would you have any idea if what he teaches is similar to what slicefixer teaches or not? And FWIW you know just as well as I do that he hasn't published anything so why bring it up?

Slicefixer admitted in one of his interviews on youtube that he "had a lot of success with what Ballard teaches". He got a lot of his ideas from Ballard, of course he isn't teaching the exact same thing but he has been inspired by it and has admitted as such.

I never said Rocco Mediate is a model for the slicefixer swing, so I have no idea why you said that. For the record Jimmy Ballard has worked with a lot of tour players over the years, his success goes way past what you saw on an infomercial on the golf channel.

If Bradley and Slicefixer are teaching similar things and you admit as such then I guess i'm not ignorant to what slicefixer teaches after all.

I don't see anything about S and T in my quoted section, I have no idea why you brought that up.

Face it Russc, I played at a high level for years, spent a ton of time around a bunch of really good teachers, and have a wide breadth of knowledge about this subject. You're just a random on the internet who got all excited about a teacher who had some ideas you thought were the be all and end all because you haven't been around the block enough times to know that its all been done, written about, and used in competition before. I suggest you SERIOUSLY take another look at yourself and your background in this game before you go calling out someone like that again. In the context of this game this is my house, you're just passing through, show some respect.

we clear?

Thrillhouse .You may be a fine golfer but ,you did not read my post very carefully" On this subject you are ignorant" i am and was referring specifically to your comparison of the Slicefixer swing to that of Mr Ballards and Bradleys.Prove to me that you are not by describing  the basic Slicefixer  swing  .Now is good time to start.
I stated explicitly that i did not know what Mr Ogrady teaches and did not include him in any comparison
Mr Mediate is Mr Ballard's prime student currently on the professional tours .If you do not like Mr Mediate as an example try Mr Strange ,Mr Colbert Mr Sutton,J C Snead etc.all well known students of Mr Ballard who exhibit swing characteristics very different from the Slicefixer swing.Slicefixer did mention that he had some some success with the Ballard swing ,but abandoned it for specific shortcomings.Do you know anything  about Mr Ballards ideas?I did not and do not   denigrate Mr Ballards ideas .I think that he made some  of the most significant contributions to swing theory in history.Just that much of his method is very  different from that of Slicefixer and is not" very similar".And i never brought up  anything about any commercial
Evidently you have not read much about  what  Bradley stated about  the backswing either if you think that it is similar to what Slicefixer suggests
I brought up the S+t method to show that there are parts of this  swing that are very similar  to that of Slicefixer's ,just like parts of the Slicefixer swing are similar to Bradley's and Mr Ballards ideas ,but that they are NOT VERY similar as you stated.

You know, it is too bad that you did not meet Slicefixer when you were younger.Instead of arguing with me ,you might have  been in San Antonio this weekend.

Edited by MrParr1Noid, 23 April 2012 - 10:35 PM.
Deleted personal remarks. Discuss the subject at hand, and not one another.


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