45 replies to this topic

[Jacob Mac]

It is one bad week, fellas.  He won in convincing fashion two weeks ago.

[bossdog]

whatshannenin, on 07 April 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sean Foley asked Grant Waite what he would do, and Grant suggested that.  Then Foley told Tiger to do that, as if it was his own idea.  The funny thing is, I was told, is that Grant deliberately told Sean the wrong thing, because he didn't want to assist Foley or have Tiger succeed after a tip that HE gave to Foley and Foley claiming it himself.   A funny story, from a very reliable source. Tiger is so good you could tell him to practice left handed and he would still find a way to win.  He isn't going to be the dominant player he once was, just isn't going to happen.  He is older, more beaten up mentally and physically and there are better competitors each and every year.  He is on some sort of quest for perfection, but perfection is winning and that's what he needs to get back to doing, not changing every aspect of his game every 5-7 years.

the whole grant waite lying to sean thing is the stupidist thing ive ever read on here. Grant knows tiger well and would never do that. Your reliable source is lying to your apparently low IQ...

[whatshannenin]

bossdog, on 07 April 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

whatshannenin, on 07 April 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sean Foley asked Grant Waite what he would do, and Grant suggested that.  Then Foley told Tiger to do that, as if it was his own idea.  The funny thing is, I was told, is that Grant deliberately told Sean the wrong thing, because he didn't want to assist Foley or have Tiger succeed after a tip that HE gave to Foley and Foley claiming it himself.   A funny story, from a very reliable source. Tiger is so good you could tell him to practice left handed and he would still find a way to win.  He isn't going to be the dominant player he once was, just isn't going to happen.  He is older, more beaten up mentally and physically and there are better competitors each and every year.  He is on some sort of quest for perfection, but perfection is winning and that's what he needs to get back to doing, not changing every aspect of his game every 5-7 years.

the whole grant waite lying to sean thing is the stupidist thing ive ever read on here. Grant knows tiger well and would never do that. Your reliable source is lying to your apparently low IQ...

Believe what you want.  I have a lot of friends in every capacity of the business and the person whom told me had no reason to lie and is as honest as they come.  It may not have been as deliberate as I made it sound (I wasn't there), but why would Grant want to help Sean Foley help Tiger?  The basic point I think Grant was making, is that if Tiger wants his advice and they are friends, why wouldn't he just ask him?  Instead he has Foley ask for him.  Thanks for the personal attack, I'm sorry my information is clearly less intellectual than yours.  

[MB GOLF]

It's to simulate the feeling of "keeping the club in front of you"... (i.e.: not getting stuck as mentioned)... but it serves another purpose many "experts on the TV" keep missing.... Tiger has a tendency to miss left with his irons over his career... this is usually caused by a number of things and fixing one thing leads to the correction of the other...  If you can get the feeling of using the sole and bounce of the club, it won't get stuck, nor will you be digging squirrel graves and having the heel dig and close the face... use the sole & bounce and presto, no more left.  Come out of the shot and you end up short right all day... which leads to a new shoe contract from Wolverine Boots "Wolverine Steel Toes...So tough, they're Tiger proof"

[bossdog]

whatshannenin, on 07 April 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

bossdog, on 07 April 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

whatshannenin, on 07 April 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sean Foley asked Grant Waite what he would do, and Grant suggested that.  Then Foley told Tiger to do that, as if it was his own idea.  The funny thing is, I was told, is that Grant deliberately told Sean the wrong thing, because he didn't want to assist Foley or have Tiger succeed after a tip that HE gave to Foley and Foley claiming it himself.   A funny story, from a very reliable source. Tiger is so good you could tell him to practice left handed and he would still find a way to win.  He isn't going to be the dominant player he once was, just isn't going to happen.  He is older, more beaten up mentally and physically and there are better competitors each and every year.  He is on some sort of quest for perfection, but perfection is winning and that's what he needs to get back to doing, not changing every aspect of his game every 5-7 years.

the whole grant waite lying to sean thing is the stupidist thing ive ever read on here. Grant knows tiger well and would never do that. Your reliable source is lying to your apparently low IQ...

Believe what you want.  I have a lot of friends in every capacity of the business and the person whom told me had no reason to lie and is as honest as they come.  It may not have been as deliberate as I made it sound (I wasn't there), but why would Grant want to help Sean Foley help Tiger?  The basic point I think Grant was making, is that if Tiger wants his advice and they are friends, why wouldn't he just ask him?  Instead he has Foley ask for him.  Thanks for the personal attack, I'm sorry my information is clearly less intellectual than yours.  

Ok sorry for the attack. It's just not something grant would do. He has a son who plays good golf and he started a little academy to help juniors. I don't think he would have the heart to do that to Sean, or tiger because he and tiger know each other very well.

[whatshannenin]

It's a brutal game at the top level.  Very cut throat and political.  I don't think the advice he told Sean was "bad advice", it's just not exactly what he would have suggested.  Clearly Tiger and Sean are going to know if it's sabotage and I don't think it was meant like "I want Tiger to fail because of that so and so" but more a case of not really giving any information and coincidentally Tiger is using the drill or rehearsal swing.  I just think it's a testament to how shady Foley is.  I don't care how many people claim he is a saint, part of image is the perception of others.  Maybe Sean should have been reading golf books and not Aristotle and Newton!  

[bossdog]

whatshannenin, on 07 April 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

It's a brutal game at the top level.  Very cut throat and political.  I don't think the advice he told Sean was "bad advice", it's just not exactly what he would have suggested.  Clearly Tiger and Sean are going to know if it's sabotage and I don't think it was meant like "I want Tiger to fail because of that so and so" but more a case of not really giving any information and coincidentally Tiger is using the drill or rehearsal swing.  I just think it's a testament to how shady Foley is.  I don't care how many people claim he is a saint, part of image is the perception of others.  Maybe Sean should have been reading golf books and not Aristotle and Newton!  

Do you know Sean? Tiger? Anyone you are talking about? Don't call him shady, or pretend to know what Sean knows and doesn't knows. From the very beginning in August 2010 Sean had one main goal and that was to get tiger more vertical coming down and not drop it inside. I think the reason tiger does these practice swings is because he wasn't getting unstuck so this really became his main focus. That's just what I think..l I don't pretend to know or say a bunch of nonsense without proof like you. Can you even prove that Sean did ask for advice, and if he did how do you know what the advice is??? You are baffling my dude

[whatshannenin]

bossdog, on 08 April 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

whatshannenin, on 07 April 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

It's a brutal game at the top level.  Very cut throat and political.  I don't think the advice he told Sean was "bad advice", it's just not exactly what he would have suggested.  Clearly Tiger and Sean are going to know if it's sabotage and I don't think it was meant like "I want Tiger to fail because of that so and so" but more a case of not really giving any information and coincidentally Tiger is using the drill or rehearsal swing.  I just think it's a testament to how shady Foley is.  I don't care how many people claim he is a saint, part of image is the perception of others.  Maybe Sean should have been reading golf books and not Aristotle and Newton!  

Do you know Sean? Tiger? Anyone you are talking about? Don't call him shady, or pretend to know what Sean knows and doesn't knows. From the very beginning in August 2010 Sean had one main goal and that was to get tiger more vertical coming down and not drop it inside. I think the reason tiger does these practice swings is because he wasn't getting unstuck so this really became his main focus. That's just what I think..l I don't pretend to know or say a bunch of nonsense without proof like you. Can you even prove that Sean did ask for advice, and if he did how do you know what the advice is??? You are baffling my dude

I'm not standing alone when I reference Sean Foley and his borrowed ideas rebranded as revolutionary. Clearly you are taking this all very personal.  I don't really care to get into a battle of wits in an online forum.  I posted an interesting story, even if it was heresay,  that pertained to the drill.  Sean has a lot of accomplished players and I'm not doubting his ability to coach.  I agree with a lot of what he says about the golf swing.  My philosophy is, if you haven't learned anything you have nothing to teach.  Sean has obviously learned some things from a lot of different sources.

[flopper]

Jacob Mac, on 07 April 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

It is one bad week, fellas.  He won in convincing fashion two weeks ago.

he smoked the field at bay hill.
He fell back to, old ways at his first major where he had dominated the field.
He be back and win a major this year.

[bossdog]

whatshannenin, on 08 April 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

bossdog, on 08 April 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

whatshannenin, on 07 April 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

It's a brutal game at the top level.  Very cut throat and political.  I don't think the advice he told Sean was "bad advice", it's just not exactly what he would have suggested.  Clearly Tiger and Sean are going to know if it's sabotage and I don't think it was meant like "I want Tiger to fail because of that so and so" but more a case of not really giving any information and coincidentally Tiger is using the drill or rehearsal swing.  I just think it's a testament to how shady Foley is.  I don't care how many people claim he is a saint, part of image is the perception of others.  Maybe Sean should have been reading golf books and not Aristotle and Newton!  

Do you know Sean? Tiger? Anyone you are talking about? Don't call him shady, or pretend to know what Sean knows and doesn't knows. From the very beginning in August 2010 Sean had one main goal and that was to get tiger more vertical coming down and not drop it inside. I think the reason tiger does these practice swings is because he wasn't getting unstuck so this really became his main focus. That's just what I think..l I don't pretend to know or say a bunch of nonsense without proof like you. Can you even prove that Sean did ask for advice, and if he did how do you know what the advice is??? You are baffling my dude

I'm not standing alone when I reference Sean Foley and his borrowed ideas rebranded as revolutionary. Clearly you are taking this all very personal.  I don't really care to get into a battle of wits in an online forum.  I posted an interesting story, even if it was heresay,  that pertained to the drill.  Sean has a lot of accomplished players and I'm not doubting his ability to coach.  I agree with a lot of what he says about the golf swing.  My philosophy is, if you haven't learned anything you have nothing to teach.  Sean has obviously learned some things from a lot of different sources.

When did he ever say his stuff was revolutionary??? He's constantly saying that he has learned from everyone he's ever met, including Leadbetter, stack and tilt guys, mark evershed etc.. Btw what coach hasn't learned something from others?? Who taught them to play golf? The stuff you are saying in your posts on this topic are a step from being [edited]..no offense

[tgreenwood11]

When Tiger was pre-Harmon he was extremely long but also very inaccurate.  His scrambling and short game was unbelieveably good.  I watched him in the LA Open play as a teen and i don't recall him hitting more than 2 or 3 fairways and maybe 6 greens.  I think he shot like 75 that for most could have been 90.  His swing, ingrained since he was 2 relied on getting way under the ball and flipping the hands over at impact.

While he was at his peak with Harmon I watched him play at Pebble Beach.  His swing was so much more refined. Sure, it was more upright but more on top of the ball.  It seemed like with the shorter clubs and with the stinger he would hold the club off more at impact but use a cross over release with his driver.  His rhythm and timing were things of beauty.

During the Haney years I think the best he ever swung the club was in 2006 at the British Open.  It looked to me like he used a hold off inside to inside swing the whole tournament which he of course won and dominated.  As it turns out, the course was very dried out and firm and he rarely used the driver.  

I think today, Tiger is fighting his natural tendency to slide under the ball and flip it over, hence the exaggerated pre-shot practice swing routine.  Under pressure, we tend to revert to our comfort zone and that swing he put in the shot on the 16th hole, Friday at Augusta tells me that's what happened.  To me it looks like he's deathly afraid of hitting a hook and he shoves his hips towards to ball and literally "runs into himself", also known as "getting stuck".

Mentally, he's playing golf swing and not golf.  If you look at how Phil is playing, you can bet he's only focused on the shot at hand and not on any technical attribute of his swing.

Another thing I think is going on has to do with putting.  Once you get into your mid thirties, something happens to the putting stroke.  Great putters like Tom Watson start missing the short ones.  Today, the older players go to the long stick, claw or left hand low.  Age might have caught up to Tiger on the greens.  My Dad, a scratch player told me he followed Ben Hogan one year at the Colonial and said his putting was unwatchable. Sam Snead couldn't draw the putter back at all and went side saddle.

I think the Harmon swing best fits Tiger's natural ability and is a far less complicated motion.  As for the putting?  That's a big unknown.

[J13]

I think this thread shows the "what have you done for me lately" attitude that some people have on this board.  Tiger will not and can not win every tourney.  He will play bad some weeks.  I tihnk it's exttremely unfair to stay silent when the player does well then when he has a bad week you rip him apart along with the instructor.

[SnapFade2]

a member on here Preppyslapcut he dose the same thing seams to work really well

[flopper]

tgreenwood11, on 08 April 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

When Tiger was pre-Harmon he was extremely long but also very inaccurate.  His scrambling and short game was unbelieveably good.  I watched him in the LA Open play as a teen and i don't recall him hitting more than 2 or 3 fairways and maybe 6 greens.  I think he shot like 75 that for most could have been 90.  His swing, ingrained since he was 2 relied on getting way under the ball and flipping the hands over at impact.

While he was at his peak with Harmon I watched him play at Pebble Beach.  His swing was so much more refined. Sure, it was more upright but more on top of the ball.  It seemed like with the shorter clubs and with the stinger he would hold the club off more at impact but use a cross over release with his driver.  His rhythm and timing were things of beauty.

During the Haney years I think the best he ever swung the club was in 2006 at the British Open.  It looked to me like he used a hold off inside to inside swing the whole tournament which he of course won and dominated.  As it turns out, the course was very dried out and firm and he rarely used the driver.  

I think today, Tiger is fighting his natural tendency to slide under the ball and flip it over, hence the exaggerated pre-shot practice swing routine.  Under pressure, we tend to revert to our comfort zone and that swing he put in the shot on the 16th hole, Friday at Augusta tells me that's what happened.  To me it looks like he's deathly afraid of hitting a hook and he shoves his hips towards to ball and literally "runs into himself", also known as "getting stuck".

Mentally, he's playing golf swing and not golf.  If you look at how Phil is playing, you can bet he's only focused on the shot at hand and not on any technical attribute of his swing.

Another thing I think is going on has to do with putting.  Once you get into your mid thirties, something happens to the putting stroke.  Great putters like Tom Watson start missing the short ones.  Today, the older players go to the long stick, claw or left hand low.  Age might have caught up to Tiger on the greens.  My Dad, a scratch player told me he followed Ben Hogan one year at the Colonial and said his putting was unwatchable. Sam Snead couldn't draw the putter back at all and went side saddle.

I think the Harmon swing best fits Tiger's natural ability and is a far less complicated motion.  As for the putting?  That's a big unknown.

Good thoughts.
Putting is more mental than anything, I putt better at age 48 than I did at age 45.
Inside 10feet I cant miss.

Ben Hogan had one bad eye also.

I wouldn't bet against Tiger in US open.

[tgreenwood11]

No one "bets against" Tiger.  He's one of the greatest golfers of all time and I would bet no one will ever match his record.

[beckk10]

whatshannenin, on 07 April 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

It's a brutal game at the top level.  Very cut throat and political.  I don't think the advice he told Sean was "bad advice", it's just not exactly what he would have suggested.  Clearly Tiger and Sean are going to know if it's sabotage and I don't think it was meant like "I want Tiger to fail because of that so and so" but more a case of not really giving any information and coincidentally Tiger is using the drill or rehearsal swing.  I just think it's a testament to how shady Foley is.  I don't care how many people claim he is a saint, part of image is the perception of others.  Maybe Sean should have been reading golf books and not Aristotle and Newton!  

hey bud, i think sean foley knows what hes doing and im sure he would know the proper advice to give tiger or anyone one of his players that keep WINNING whether someone else can point it out or not. im sure anyone on this site can tell tiger gets a little quick and the club behind him.


taking his ballstriking to major championships more comofortably is a process, its the first time hes done it with this new move and how well he has been hitting it. he wasnt comfortable in average tournaments at first, he got comfortable and won easily and put on a clinic in bayhill.



he will do the same with major tournaments. lets not get ahead of ourself.