29 replies to this topic

[JJH_GOLF]

Can anyone with experience out there tell me what is the absolute fastest/shortest amount of time one can earn their class A membership in?  Assuming Pre-Qualification test and PAT are both complete, and DAY 1 is when you pay for your Level 1 Kit.  Any help would be great, thanks!

[edub72]

When I went thru absolute shortest amount of time was 18 months, that was in 1997, I think most take 2-3 years.

[JJH_GOLF]

Great, thanks for the info, I guess my next question off of that would be: nowadays is it possible to finish the entire program, start to finish, in under 18 months?

[MonteScheinblum]

I am about to take my qualifying test, so I am interested in this question, as well.

Glad the PAT is over.  10+ hour war in shaky weather...LOL.

[Kiwi2]

MonteScheinblum, on 29 March 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I am about to take my qualifying test, so I am interested in this question, as well.

Glad the PAT is over.  10+ hour war in shaky weather...LOL.

i think it is an insult that you were required to take the PAT. You proved your playing ability by being  former Nationwide tour player.

[MonteScheinblum]

Kiwi2, on 30 March 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 29 March 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I am about to take my qualifying test, so I am interested in this question, as well.

Glad the PAT is over.  10+ hour war in shaky weather...LOL.

i think it is an insult that you were required to take the PAT. You proved your playing ability by being  former Nationwide tour player.

It was a while ago that i did well on that tour. I didn't even bother to read the rules or apply for an exemption.  It gave me a chance to win a tournament and no matter how weak the field was, it gave me some confidence.

[JJH_GOLF]

MonteScheinblum, on 29 March 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I am about to take my qualifying test, so I am interested in this question, as well.

Glad the PAT is over.  10+ hour war in shaky weather...LOL.

I just took my qualifying test yesterday, wasn't too tough, I finished in 47 minutes.  I'm pretty good with rules so that section wasn't that bad, but study up on the constitution section a little.  I read over it for about an hour or two and there were still a couple questions that I wasn't familiar with.

[MonteScheinblum]

JJH_GOLF, on 30 March 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 29 March 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I am about to take my qualifying test, so I am interested in this question, as well.

Glad the PAT is over.  10+ hour war in shaky weather...LOL.

I just took my qualifying test yesterday, wasn't too tough, I finished in 47 minutes.  I'm pretty good with rules so that section wasn't that bad, but study up on the constitution section a little.  I read over it for about an hour or two and there were still a couple questions that I wasn't familiar with.

Is it all T/F and multiple choice or are there questions where you have to search for exact rules and definitions and apply them.  I am focusing on Bylaws and constitution, but i need to make sure I can get the rules answered correctly with proper numbers and definitions.

[exgolfpro]

JJH_GOLF, on 29 March 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

Can anyone with experience out there tell me what is the absolute fastest/shortest amount of time one can earn their class A membership in?  Assuming Pre-Qualification test and PAT are both complete, and DAY 1 is when you pay for your Level 1 Kit.  Any help would be great, thanks!

The system has changed since I went thru it (1992).  But it took me 18 months exactly.  You had to earn 36 'credits'.  One month of service under a Class A was 1 credit.  But, I had been giving 18 for having a college degree.  So, I took 18 months to earn my other 18 credits.  During that time, I attended the two schools that were required and passed the PAT on first try.

[JJH_GOLF]

MonteScheinblum, on 30 March 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

JJH_GOLF, on 30 March 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 29 March 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I am about to take my qualifying test, so I am interested in this question, as well.

Glad the PAT is over.  10+ hour war in shaky weather...LOL.

I just took my qualifying test yesterday, wasn't too tough, I finished in 47 minutes.  I'm pretty good with rules so that section wasn't that bad, but study up on the constitution section a little.  I read over it for about an hour or two and there were still a couple questions that I wasn't familiar with.

Is it all T/F and multiple choice or are there questions where you have to search for exact rules and definitions and apply them.  I am focusing on Bylaws and constitution, but i need to make sure I can get the rules answered correctly with proper numbers and definitions.

It is all T/f and MC, you don't necessarily need to "apply" any rules, but you need to be able to read a certain situation, and just look up what rule applies.  If you are familiar with how to thumb through a rule book and understand the book, it will be a sure thing for you.  Like you said, about 80-90% of your study time should be bylaws and constitution.  You only need a 70%, so spend your time there and you'll be fine.

[MonteScheinblum]

JJH_GOLF, on 30 March 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

It is all T/f and MC, you don't necessarily need to "apply" any rules, but you need to be able to read a certain situation, and just look up what rule applies.  If you are familiar with how to thumb through a rule book and understand the book, it will be a sure thing for you.  Like you said, about 80-90% of your study time should be bylaws and constitution.  You only need a 70%, so spend your time there and you'll be fine.

TY, very helpful.  Let me know if I can return the favor and help you out some way.

[Raidersgolf99]

Been through the latest and greatest that the PGA has to offer.
The fastest you can get through the program is about 18-20 months depending on the testing schedule for level 1, 2 and 3.
Any questions feel free to PM.

[golfpros1]

Is it worth getting a class a and following this career path as a second career?  As a guy pushing 40, i love golf, but I don't want to go back to scrubbing clubs outside working 12 hours a day for $10 an hour just to be around golf.

i remember my pat attempt 15 years ago well.... first round went really well, was under par for the first 9, then all heck broke loose and I missed it by a few.  I never even bothered after that and changed careers.

[PreppySlapCut]

golfpros1, on 31 March 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Is it worth getting a class a and following this career path as a second career?  As a guy pushing 40, i love golf, but I don't want to go back to scrubbing clubs outside working 12 hours a day for $10 an hour just to be around golf.

i remember my pat attempt 15 years ago well.... first round went really well, was under par for the first 9, then all heck broke loose and I missed it by a few.  I never even bothered after that and changed careers.

Well, even going this path, as a level 1 apprentice you may find yourself working those hours and perfroming tasks you believe to be "beneath you," particularly if you don't have a wealth of recent experience in the golf industry.  Like anything else, you have to put in your time.  I made the decision to take a job with fewer responsibilities and starting lower on the proverbial totem pole at one of the better clubs in the country because I believe that the upward mobility and payoff will be worth it down the line.  I can't tell you right now the overall effect it will have on my career trajectory, but I'm loving life right now...

[Raidersgolf99]

golfpros1, on 31 March 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Is it worth getting a class a and following this career path as a second career?  As a guy pushing 40, i love golf, but I don't want to go back to scrubbing clubs outside working 12 hours a day for $10 an hour just to be around golf.

i remember my pat attempt 15 years ago well.... first round went really well, was under par for the first 9, then all heck broke loose and I missed it by a few.  I never even bothered after that and changed careers.

If you and your family are secure from your 1st career and your significant others career, then I say by all means, give the golf business a ride.
However, if you are looking for the opportunity to pocket a good buck, I'd say stay away.
I have been out of the industry since 2009 (became a chef, restaurateur, opened my own restaurant and bar) and just a couple days ago, I got a call to be the Teaching Professional at a Top 5 Country Club in the U.S. ... Pays $30,000. Hope my experience can help you.

[golfpros1]

Raidersgolf99, on 01 April 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

golfpros1, on 31 March 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Is it worth getting a class a and following this career path as a second career?  As a guy pushing 40, i love golf, but I don't want to go back to scrubbing clubs outside working 12 hours a day for $10 an hour just to be around golf.

i remember my pat attempt 15 years ago well.... first round went really well, was under par for the first 9, then all heck broke loose and I missed it by a few.  I never even bothered after that and changed careers.

If you and your family are secure from your 1st career and your significant others career, then I say by all means, give the golf business a ride.
However, if you are looking for the opportunity to pocket a good buck, I'd say stay away.
I have been out of the industry since 2009 (became a chef, restaurateur, opened my own restaurant and bar) and just a couple days ago, I got a call to be the Teaching Professional at a Top 5 Country Club in the U.S. ... Pays $30,000. Hope my experience can help you.

yeah, this was kind of drove me out of it in the first place, because this part of the career concerned me.  I'm making 6 figures in the technology industry, and as much as I love golf and would love to be a golf instructor, I think it's for young men only because you can't survive on those wages

[PreppySlapCut]

golfpros1, on 01 April 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

Raidersgolf99, on 01 April 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

golfpros1, on 31 March 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Is it worth getting a class a and following this career path as a second career?  As a guy pushing 40, i love golf, but I don't want to go back to scrubbing clubs outside working 12 hours a day for $10 an hour just to be around golf.

i remember my pat attempt 15 years ago well.... first round went really well, was under par for the first 9, then all heck broke loose and I missed it by a few.  I never even bothered after that and changed careers.

If you and your family are secure from your 1st career and your significant others career, then I say by all means, give the golf business a ride.
However, if you are looking for the opportunity to pocket a good buck, I'd say stay away.
I have been out of the industry since 2009 (became a chef, restaurateur, opened my own restaurant and bar) and just a couple days ago, I got a call to be the Teaching Professional at a Top 5 Country Club in the U.S. ... Pays $30,000. Hope my experience can help you.

yeah, this was kind of drove me out of it in the first place, because this part of the career concerned me.  I'm making 6 figures in the technology industry, and as much as I love golf and would love to be a golf instructor, I think it's for young men only because you can't survive on those wages

That might be your base if you're a teaching pro, but you're going to get paid based on how much you teach.  If you're at a good club and decent teacher there is simply no way you're making 30k...

[Raidersgolf99]

Slap,
You can believe what you'd like.
With exclusive, first class, world renowned clubs that are not in 12 month a year golf weather, you are looking at $30-$40k per year for about 8-9 months of work.
Yes, you could pocket a good bit of extra change depending on your client list, but 95% of the time,  the Club dips into your pocket at a rate of usually 75-85% of the take.
Many pros will "hide" lesson income, but for me that is a bit too unethical; golf is a game of honor!

[Evolved]

Raidersgolf99, on 01 April 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Slap,
You can believe what you'd like.
With exclusive, first class, world renowned clubs that are not in 12 month a year golf weather, you are looking at $30-$40k per year for about 8-9 months of work.
Yes, you could pocket a good bit of extra change depending on your client list, but 95% of the time,  the Club dips into your pocket at a rate of usually 75-85% of the take.
Many pros will "hide" lesson income, but for me that is a bit too unethical; golf is a game of honor!

Let me get this straight, you're saying clubs take 75-85% of lesson money? I've never seen that.

[Raidersgolf99]

Sorry, I did not phrase that properly, 15-25% of the take, leaving the instructor with 75-85% before taxation.
My apologies.

[PreppySlapCut]

So again, to clarify, 30k a year is substantially different than making 30k base + 85% of your lesson book for 9 months of work...

[iteachgolf]

I will say that even my first year teaching I made more than $30,000.  Won't say what I make now but it's multiple times that.  Now way you are at a top 5 club in the country making $30,000.  The teaching pros at the top clubs all make six figures.

[Raidersgolf99]

85% quickly becomes about 50%
Look, I have no reason to falsify statements. I turned down the offer strictly based on the base  salary offered. If I was legally able to reveal the club, I would, but I am not in the position to do so. However, I will say that in the past 5 years, they have not topped 5,000 rounds per year. Exclusive, period.

[edub72]

If you can find a $30k base in the golf business and you love to teach jump on it.  In Texas a base at a high end club seems to average $8-12 an hour which is worse than when I was in the business in the 90's.  I made $10 an hour as a bagroom supervisor in 1994.  To answer to the lessons and income part of this, you have to consider (as long as you are at the right club and have a good staff program):

• There is little to no expenditure on equipment, clothing and green fees ( i easily spend $2-300/mo now, and I'm pretty cheap).
• The clubs I was at allowed unlimited meals, so little to no money on meals (my portion of a family of 4 is easily $300/month)
• The members were always throwing $20-100 at me for getting them tee times elsewhere, finding good deals for them and other things (almost always had a couple hundred on me from this).
• I brought in tournaments and got a commission off that.

That's why if I could find an Assistant or teaching position with a base of $30k, I'd be back in in a heartbeat.  My base in 1998 was 21k and I made 52k with lessons and commissions.  Not to mention that I had free football, basketball and hockey tickets to the Dallas franchises thru bartering with the teams and member hookups.

Our head professional was good with the members, so on Mondays we would hop on private planes and go play elsewhere in Oklahoma and Louisiana with members.  What the hell am I doing, I'm logging on to PGA Jobfinder and finding one of these $30k bases.

[golfpros1]

basically, you wont make a lot of money unless you find a very special scenario.  they are out there, and require a lot of networking, persistance, and the willingness to pick up and move to advance your career.  for most college age men/women, the money doesn't seem bad at all.  But if you're making that at 30+ and/or your married with kids, you'll be broke.  You have to get out of the hourly run around and make a real salary.  Head pros at private clubs make pretty good livings, especially if they get percentage of pro shop sales.

[GatorPaul]

As someone who has been in the business, out of it, and back in it again I can add my two cents:

First off, no matter where you go it takes some time to build up some trust to where you can capitalize on your lesson income potential.  Some clubs simply have alot of lesson takers and some do not.  High end, white collar type private clubs will obviously have more members with  high dispensable income.  Also those clubs will have a higher lesson rate than say a municipal course.  In terms of salary, alot will vary by geography too.

There are other perks besides meals and equipment.  For many years I received a complimentary dorm style apartment as part of my position.  If you are single this may be beneficial if you can find it.

It seems though (as someone else said) that the pay rates dont seem to be improving with the cost of living.  Rounds have declined with the economy, but hopefully we can see a rebound here soon.  Also with these career golf colleges (non-PGA), the candidate pools are larger and larger.  I applied to a position last year and they said they received over 80 applicants for a posting that was up for 10 days!

[hoselrocketman]

golfpros1, on 31 March 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Is it worth getting a class a and following this career path as a second career?  As a guy pushing 40, i love golf, but I don't want to go back to scrubbing clubs outside working 12 hours a day for $10 an hour just to be around golf.

i remember my pat attempt 15 years ago well.... first round went really well, was under par for the first 9, then all heck broke loose and I missed it by a few.  I never even bothered after that and changed careers.

If you love inventorying golf balls and shirts, washing carts, answering stupid questions on the telephone, and most of all.....playing A LOT LESS GOLF than before you had a job "in the industry" then by all means, jump right in and become a golf clerk ooooops, I mean Pro.  You are only going to make any money if you teach and if you think that is a picnic you are sadly mistaken.  It is one thing to be able to look at a broccoli chopper bludgeon a range ball with a nine iron and another to be able to tell said chopper what to do to fix the bludgeon move.  Believe me, golf pro-ing is NOT what it is cracked up to be.  The hours can be unreal....like be here at 0430 in June to get ready for the first tee time and don't forget to wash all those carts at 9 at night when they are finally all back in.  Are you kidding?  And wait til you get the, "do you know what hole we'll be on when it starts raining?" questions.....OMG!  Unless you have an inside track at a job at a PRIVATE club....fagetaboutit!!!  It ain't what you're fantasizing about.

[golfpros1]

hoselrocketman, on 25 May 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

golfpros1, on 31 March 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Is it worth getting a class a and following this career path as a second career?  As a guy pushing 40, i love golf, but I don't want to go back to scrubbing clubs outside working 12 hours a day for $10 an hour just to be around golf.

i remember my pat attempt 15 years ago well.... first round went really well, was under par for the first 9, then all heck broke loose and I missed it by a few.  I never even bothered after that and changed careers.

If you love inventorying golf balls and shirts, washing carts, answering stupid questions on the telephone, and most of all.....playing A LOT LESS GOLF than before you had a job "in the industry" then by all means, jump right in and become a golf clerk ooooops, I mean Pro.  You are only going to make any money if you teach and if you think that is a picnic you are sadly mistaken.  It is one thing to be able to look at a broccoli chopper bludgeon a range ball with a nine iron and another to be able to tell said chopper what to do to fix the bludgeon move.  Believe me, golf pro-ing is NOT what it is cracked up to be.  The hours can be unreal....like be here at 0430 in June to get ready for the first tee time and don't forget to wash all those carts at 9 at night when they are finally all back in.  Are you kidding?  And wait til you get the, "do you know what hole we'll be on when it starts raining?" questions.....OMG!  Unless you have an inside track at a job at a PRIVATE club....fagetaboutit!!!  It ain't what you're fantasizing about.

LOL... i see you've felt the pain.

[Evolved]

hoselrocketman, on 25 May 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

  And wait til you get the, "do you know what hole we'll be on when it starts raining?" questions.....

I got that one yesterday. I was off by 10 minutes and the guy got an attitude and mouthed off a little bit. Good times.

[hoselrocketman]

golfpros1, on 25 May 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

hoselrocketman, on 25 May 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

golfpros1, on 31 March 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Is it worth getting a class a and following this career path as a second career?  As a guy pushing 40, i love golf, but I don't want to go back to scrubbing clubs outside working 12 hours a day for $10 an hour just to be around golf.

i remember my pat attempt 15 years ago well.... first round went really well, was under par for the first 9, then all heck broke loose and I missed it by a few.  I never even bothered after that and changed careers.

If you love inventorying golf balls and shirts, washing carts, answering stupid questions on the telephone, and most of all.....playing A LOT LESS GOLF than before you had a job "in the industry" then by all means, jump right in and become a golf clerk ooooops, I mean Pro.  You are only going to make any money if you teach and if you think that is a picnic you are sadly mistaken.  It is one thing to be able to look at a broccoli chopper bludgeon a range ball with a nine iron and another to be able to tell said chopper what to do to fix the bludgeon move.  Believe me, golf pro-ing is NOT what it is cracked up to be.  The hours can be unreal....like be here at 0430 in June to get ready for the first tee time and don't forget to wash all those carts at 9 at night when they are finally all back in.  Are you kidding?  And wait til you get the, "do you know what hole we'll be on when it starts raining?" questions.....OMG!  Unless you have an inside track at a job at a PRIVATE club....fagetaboutit!!!  It ain't what you're fantasizing about.

LOL... i see you've felt the pain.

I have in fact, "felt the pain"!  Last job was head pro at Brigantine Golf Links in Atlantic City years ago.  Met some wonderful people in the 'industry" but for the most part it was a big mistake "turning Pro".  I loved to play and played a lot less.  The best thing about it was learning about the golf swing from some absolute genius teachers like Bobby Lennon who is now the Director of Instruction at Wilmington Country Club and playing with some really good local golf pros like Bobby and Jason Lamp and Johnny Appleget and many others in the Phila. Section.