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What are the rules?
What are the suggestions?
How do you present suggestions to your playing partners?
What can each golfer do?
How do you handle some specific scenarios
I'll start with the simple ones...
1) Play ready golf - announce it, then do it
2) No more than 2 practice swings, preferably 1, line up, hit the ball
3) Don't put your clubs back in the bag when your playing partner is ready to drive away; carry them with you to the next stop, then put them away
4) Putt up to bogeys, consider picking up at double bogie or at least triple bogey
5) Stay up with the group ahead of you
6) Turn time is 5 minutes
7) Call for course rangers if the course is generally slow
That's a start...
Schteeve
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The Ultimate Slow Play Thread
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#1
Posted 12 December 2006 - 12:03 AM
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#2
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 06:15 AM
It is but a far of dream that I will ever play a round under 5 hours at my club.
Today me and a friend were playing and the course was empty. That's what we thought until the 5th when we caught up to two older women who appeared to not play often. We see them hacking slowly up a par 3 and were suprised when they didn't call us up. We finished the hole in 2-3 minutes and walked to the next tee. We wait for 5-7 minutes for the ladies to get out of range.
What is more disturbing is that this same process continued for 4 more holes on every shot (minus putts). They had a break at the turn and we strode to the 10th tee and hit off only to be confronted by the two women and given a stern lecture on why we should let them through. I almost exploded.
You can imagine how bad playing in the weekly competitions is .
We don't have "course marshalls" to help out.
Please help me!
(Good topic. Golfers helping golfers be better golfers. I like it!)
Edit: grammar
Today me and a friend were playing and the course was empty. That's what we thought until the 5th when we caught up to two older women who appeared to not play often. We see them hacking slowly up a par 3 and were suprised when they didn't call us up. We finished the hole in 2-3 minutes and walked to the next tee. We wait for 5-7 minutes for the ladies to get out of range.
What is more disturbing is that this same process continued for 4 more holes on every shot (minus putts). They had a break at the turn and we strode to the 10th tee and hit off only to be confronted by the two women and given a stern lecture on why we should let them through. I almost exploded.
You can imagine how bad playing in the weekly competitions is .
We don't have "course marshalls" to help out.
Please help me!
(Good topic. Golfers helping golfers be better golfers. I like it!)
Edit: grammar
#3
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 08:11 AM
- when riding with a partner.. Stop the cart in a neutral location and walk to your ball with more than one club and be ready to hit.
- If you are 250+ yards out on a par 5 you can't hit the green. Hell most people can't even Drive the ball that far let alone pick a ball from the fairway.
- There is no need need to mark your ball when it is less than 3 feet from the cup.. finish it up.
#4 Gallery_midasmulligan2000_*
Posted 12 December 2006 - 08:16 AM
Actually - I think the essence of the problem can't be fixed by any of the suggestions here ... because the only people that would follow them are those that probably don't need to in the first place.
I think 5-6 hour rounds come from two basic causes - both of which are related not so much to golfers as to golf course management:
The first is course revenues. Very few courses have a consistant revenue stream - Florida, Arizona courses (and etc.) get 3/4 of their yearly revenue in 3 or 4 months (tourist season when its cold up north). New York and New Jersey courses (and etc.) do as well (the summer months). When there's demand, courses want to squeeze as many people on as they can - so many courses (public and semi-private) book tee times very close together. So there's no buffer zone between foursomes ... looking for a ball in the rough for even a couple of minutes means there's a foursome waiting on the tee behind you.
The second is the "turtle" foursome. When a course is playing slow - quite commonly the reason is not the majority of players, its actually the single foursome that winds up backing up as many as 6 or 7 holes behind them. Sometimes its because of cluelessness on the part of that foursome, sometimes its ego (weekenders with 20 handicaps that insist on playing the back tees). 10 foursomes can be following all the rules you can make up to maintain pace of play - and all of them still be waiting on every hole due to that single foursome.
Thing is, both of these are management issues. A course in which there's an appropriate amount of time between tee times, and even a single ranger that is actually a real ranger (not just an old guy in a cart that smiles at people) that will give the turtles a firm giddyup when necessary ... generally does deliver golfers 4 - 4.5 hours rounds even on busy weekends.
Without those two things, however, 95% of the golfers on the course can be following DrSchteeve's rules, and any others, and you'll still wind up with 5 hour rounds.
I think 5-6 hour rounds come from two basic causes - both of which are related not so much to golfers as to golf course management:
The first is course revenues. Very few courses have a consistant revenue stream - Florida, Arizona courses (and etc.) get 3/4 of their yearly revenue in 3 or 4 months (tourist season when its cold up north). New York and New Jersey courses (and etc.) do as well (the summer months). When there's demand, courses want to squeeze as many people on as they can - so many courses (public and semi-private) book tee times very close together. So there's no buffer zone between foursomes ... looking for a ball in the rough for even a couple of minutes means there's a foursome waiting on the tee behind you.
The second is the "turtle" foursome. When a course is playing slow - quite commonly the reason is not the majority of players, its actually the single foursome that winds up backing up as many as 6 or 7 holes behind them. Sometimes its because of cluelessness on the part of that foursome, sometimes its ego (weekenders with 20 handicaps that insist on playing the back tees). 10 foursomes can be following all the rules you can make up to maintain pace of play - and all of them still be waiting on every hole due to that single foursome.
Thing is, both of these are management issues. A course in which there's an appropriate amount of time between tee times, and even a single ranger that is actually a real ranger (not just an old guy in a cart that smiles at people) that will give the turtles a firm giddyup when necessary ... generally does deliver golfers 4 - 4.5 hours rounds even on busy weekends.
Without those two things, however, 95% of the golfers on the course can be following DrSchteeve's rules, and any others, and you'll still wind up with 5 hour rounds.
#5
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 08:25 AM
^^^^^^^^
Great point.. Another would be an actual starter that would group people up in foursomes instead of having people go out in 2 somes and 3 somes..
I don't know what it is about South Central Pa and people who are scared to death to have to play with other people. Especially when we are already backed up from the other 2 somes that didn't want to pair up. /rant
Great point.. Another would be an actual starter that would group people up in foursomes instead of having people go out in 2 somes and 3 somes..
I don't know what it is about South Central Pa and people who are scared to death to have to play with other people. Especially when we are already backed up from the other 2 somes that didn't want to pair up. /rant
#6 Gallery_midasmulligan2000_*
Posted 12 December 2006 - 08:47 AM
Josh T, on Dec 12 2006, 09:25 AM, said:
^^^^^^^^
Great point.. Another would be an actual starter that would group people up in foursomes instead of having people go out in 2 somes and 3 somes..
I don't know what it is about South Central Pa and people who are scared to death to have to play with other people. Especially when we are already backed up from the other 2 somes that didn't want to pair up. /rant
Great point.. Another would be an actual starter that would group people up in foursomes instead of having people go out in 2 somes and 3 somes..
I don't know what it is about South Central Pa and people who are scared to death to have to play with other people. Especially when we are already backed up from the other 2 somes that didn't want to pair up. /rant
Yeah ... that's a rough one though. I've played some courses (especially in Florida) where twosomes just aren't allowed, and if there are single walk-ons waiting, threesomes have no choice ... they become a foursome.
But, sometimes this leads to difficulties - generally golfers play with people of at least relatively similar abilities. Foursome that are patched together by a starter can get strange (and sometimes slow). I remember one afternoon, for instance, in which a twosome was paired with myself and another single ... and on every hole the different golfers teed off from all three tee boxes. There were a couple of single-digits, another that probably played to a 15, and a fourth that probably shot 120. Everyone was nice and friendly and courteous, but I think it was just a slightly uncomfortable day for everyone.
#7
Posted 12 December 2006 - 09:14 AM
I know some courses that allow a maximum of three players per group, and limit the maximum handicap on weekends in an attempt to speed up play. Though it's hardly an ideal solution, I've yet to play a 4.5 hr+ round on those courses.
A friend of mine played at Miurfield in the UK once, and he told me that groups of four were only allowed to play the foursome format (alternate shot).
A friend of mine played at Miurfield in the UK once, and he told me that groups of four were only allowed to play the foursome format (alternate shot).
#8
Posted 12 December 2006 - 10:34 AM
I think the good Dr.'s rules 1 and 4 would especially help speed things up. There really is no reason to card a 12 is there? Also a lot of people stand around for 5 minutes trying to figure out who is out. I agree with the get to the ball and hit philosophy.
#9
Posted 12 December 2006 - 02:20 PM
To update and summarize so far:
Golfers
1) Play ready golf - announce it, then do it
2) No more than 2 practice swings, preferably 1, line up, hit the ball (or swing, if you prefer)
3) Don't put your clubs back in the bag when your playing partner is ready to drive away; carry them with you to the next stop, then put them away
4) Pick up at double bogey or at least triple bogey
5) Stay up with the group ahead of you
6) Let faster players play through
7) Turn time is 5 minutes
8) Call for course rangers if the course is generally slow
9) Putt out all putts less than 3 feet (don’t mark the ball)
10) Paced play takes priority over optimum scoring
11) Paced play is a courtesy to other golfers and to the game itself
12) Take several club options to your ball so that you don’t have to return to your cart
13) Hit away when the group ahead is out of range (no, you can’t hit the green from 240)
14) Limit looking for lost balls, time appropriate to circumstances (5 minutes is only for tournament play; usually a 2 minute limit for casual play)
15) Play teeboxes appropriate to handicap whenever possible
White (forward men’s): 16+
Blue (back men’s): 8-16
Championship: 8 and under
Courses
1) Advise all players of desirability of paced play
2) Give all players a courtesy card/otherwise post suggestions to maintain paced play
3) Have a clear and consistent policy regarding slow play
4) Have rangers enforce slow play policies
Golfers
1) Play ready golf - announce it, then do it
2) No more than 2 practice swings, preferably 1, line up, hit the ball (or swing, if you prefer)
3) Don't put your clubs back in the bag when your playing partner is ready to drive away; carry them with you to the next stop, then put them away
4) Pick up at double bogey or at least triple bogey
5) Stay up with the group ahead of you
6) Let faster players play through
7) Turn time is 5 minutes
8) Call for course rangers if the course is generally slow
9) Putt out all putts less than 3 feet (don’t mark the ball)
10) Paced play takes priority over optimum scoring
11) Paced play is a courtesy to other golfers and to the game itself
12) Take several club options to your ball so that you don’t have to return to your cart
13) Hit away when the group ahead is out of range (no, you can’t hit the green from 240)
14) Limit looking for lost balls, time appropriate to circumstances (5 minutes is only for tournament play; usually a 2 minute limit for casual play)
15) Play teeboxes appropriate to handicap whenever possible
White (forward men’s): 16+
Blue (back men’s): 8-16
Championship: 8 and under
Courses
1) Advise all players of desirability of paced play
2) Give all players a courtesy card/otherwise post suggestions to maintain paced play
3) Have a clear and consistent policy regarding slow play
4) Have rangers enforce slow play policies
#10
Posted 12 December 2006 - 03:01 PM
I joined a private club a few months ago and now thank the golf gods every day for getting me off the public courses. I am by no means rich and need to budget extremely wisely to pull this off. However, from a golf and lifestyle perspecitve it is invaluable.
I play at 7:08 on Saturday and Sunday mornings (I live in FL so you can do this year round). We are usually the 2nd or 3rd group off. We usually play our rounds just under 3 hours. Last week it was cold (48*) so we were the first group off and finished in 2.5 hours. One week we had an 8:00 tee-time and we finished in 3 hours and 50 minutes and we complained the whole time about how slow it was (compared to our usual 3 hour round it did seem slow).
I think the reason why golf is faster at my private club than a public course is.
1. People are paying thousands of dollars a year to play. They take the game serisously and are pretty good golfers. They understand the game and for the most part play it right.
2. Because it is private their are respect for other golfers on the course (letting groups play through, understanding that playing slow holds up fellow-memebers, etc.)
Our course does not have a ranger and you are allowed to walk. It just shows if the majority of the golfers understand the game (are not hackers) you can play a 7,000 yard course on a weekend morning under 4 hours.
My suggestion. Figure out a way to join a private club. Nothing like teeing off at 7:00 and finishing by 10:00.
-Steve
I play at 7:08 on Saturday and Sunday mornings (I live in FL so you can do this year round). We are usually the 2nd or 3rd group off. We usually play our rounds just under 3 hours. Last week it was cold (48*) so we were the first group off and finished in 2.5 hours. One week we had an 8:00 tee-time and we finished in 3 hours and 50 minutes and we complained the whole time about how slow it was (compared to our usual 3 hour round it did seem slow).
I think the reason why golf is faster at my private club than a public course is.
1. People are paying thousands of dollars a year to play. They take the game serisously and are pretty good golfers. They understand the game and for the most part play it right.
2. Because it is private their are respect for other golfers on the course (letting groups play through, understanding that playing slow holds up fellow-memebers, etc.)
Our course does not have a ranger and you are allowed to walk. It just shows if the majority of the golfers understand the game (are not hackers) you can play a 7,000 yard course on a weekend morning under 4 hours.
My suggestion. Figure out a way to join a private club. Nothing like teeing off at 7:00 and finishing by 10:00.
-Steve
#11
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 03:22 PM
I hate it how people dont respect people that are faster then them, like one time a forsome didnt let me play through, and i had to wait at least 15 minutes on each hole just to tee off...
I think that there should be a rule that foursomes and elderly players yield to one person walking\riding.
I think that there should be a rule that foursomes and elderly players yield to one person walking\riding.
#12
Posted 12 December 2006 - 03:57 PM
Another thing now some of you may disagree, but I feel differently because I am a junior golfer. People think that just because we are junior that we shouldn't be allowed to play through. It should be based on how good/fast you are not how old you are. Because there have been so many times that I have had to wait because of slow people, and the people know we are there because we catch up with them on the tee boxes and what not and they look back quite a bit.
BTW I think this is a great post, lets keep up with the tips on faster play!!
BTW I think this is a great post, lets keep up with the tips on faster play!!
#13
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 04:14 PM
lefty i agree, i'm a junior also, and sometimes the casual 100+ shooting male wont let me play through because of his ego...
I think that it should be based on skill, not age.
I think that it should be based on skill, not age.
#14
Posted 12 December 2006 - 05:57 PM
Steve_FLA, on Dec 12 2006, 03:01 PM, said:
I joined a private club a few months ago and now thank the golf gods every day for getting me off the public courses. I am by no means rich and need to budget extremely wisely to pull this off. However, from a golf and lifestyle perspecitve it is invaluable.
I think the reason why golf is faster at my private club than a public course is.
1. People are paying thousands of dollars a year to play. They take the game serisously and are pretty good golfers. They understand the game and for the most part play it right.
2. Because it is private their are respect for other golfers on the course (letting groups play through, understanding that playing slow holds up fellow-memebers, etc.)
My suggestion. Figure out a way to join a private club.
I think the reason why golf is faster at my private club than a public course is.
1. People are paying thousands of dollars a year to play. They take the game serisously and are pretty good golfers. They understand the game and for the most part play it right.
2. Because it is private their are respect for other golfers on the course (letting groups play through, understanding that playing slow holds up fellow-memebers, etc.)
My suggestion. Figure out a way to join a private club.
I am sorry to say, but this is really the only solution. It only takes a group or two to screw up the entire course flow. At a private course they can get tossed or mocked. At a public course the owner does not turn away revenues.
It really come down to money. If weekends are your only time to play, join a private club, play proper golf and get home to your wife, girlfriend, lover or mistress.
I saw a public course in New Jersey that marketed 4 hour rounds, not sure how it worked.
#15
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 06:19 PM
that is true, but public courses should start cracking down a bit, because like you said coach, all it takes is one group to ruin everything...
solution-cant think of one...
solution-cant think of one...
#16
Posted 12 December 2006 - 07:19 PM
Good golfers regardless of their handicaps appreciate and have an understanding of the game of golf. As a result, with few exceptions, they play at a reasonable pace.
Slow play for the most part is caused by players who play badly. They hit very few fairways (lots of time looking for lost balls). They miss most greens -- even Par 3's (lots of setup time before hitting meidocre or poor chips and pitches). They think they can handle putting and have elaborate routines and spend time looking at a putt from all four sides.
There are a lot of really bad players (notice I don't say golfers) out there -- less than 10% of golfers break 90 on a regular basis and many shoot well over 100 -- all of these strokes take time. Add in lost and missing balls and you have slow play.
Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
Slow play for the most part is caused by players who play badly. They hit very few fairways (lots of time looking for lost balls). They miss most greens -- even Par 3's (lots of setup time before hitting meidocre or poor chips and pitches). They think they can handle putting and have elaborate routines and spend time looking at a putt from all four sides.
There are a lot of really bad players (notice I don't say golfers) out there -- less than 10% of golfers break 90 on a regular basis and many shoot well over 100 -- all of these strokes take time. Add in lost and missing balls and you have slow play.
Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
#17
Posted 12 December 2006 - 07:45 PM
The speed of play by a golfer is the biggest factor (I know everyone realizes this) for slow play. The problem is the weekend hacker who really does not have a clue to his sorroundings taking 2-3 practice strokes, doesn't think about what they are really doing, has poor swing mechanics and hits the ball 50 yards sidewards. Then he goes to his ball and repeats this over and over again.
If you watch good players they go to their ball. Figure out distance and select a club. Stand behind the ball and pick a target and visualize the shot. Then address the ball and take one practice swing and then hit the shot. All this is done in 1-2 minutes. They may take as much time over the ball as a hacker but their bad shots are not that bad. That keeps them moving forward down the fairway and keeps play moving.
Not to sound like a golf snob and do not want to offend anyone. But if public courses required a handicap on weekends (12 or lower) I think you would see more 4 hour rounds. It was not that long ago that public courses did not allow women or children to play on weekends. That being said, when I started at golf I sucked just as bad as anyone else...so I understand it takes time and a lot of hard work to get good at golf. And public courses would never turn anyone away since they would be tunring away money.
-Steve
If you watch good players they go to their ball. Figure out distance and select a club. Stand behind the ball and pick a target and visualize the shot. Then address the ball and take one practice swing and then hit the shot. All this is done in 1-2 minutes. They may take as much time over the ball as a hacker but their bad shots are not that bad. That keeps them moving forward down the fairway and keeps play moving.
Not to sound like a golf snob and do not want to offend anyone. But if public courses required a handicap on weekends (12 or lower) I think you would see more 4 hour rounds. It was not that long ago that public courses did not allow women or children to play on weekends. That being said, when I started at golf I sucked just as bad as anyone else...so I understand it takes time and a lot of hard work to get good at golf. And public courses would never turn anyone away since they would be tunring away money.
-Steve
#18
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 08:21 PM
At my club with a clear run (it's 6,600 yards) and in a two ball then we can do it under 3 hours. Carts are not allowed - only walking.
The following winds me up:
- people who are 300 yards away from the green using those laser things and shouting over to their playing partner "do I need the 3 wood from here?" YES YOU DO - HIT IT MAN!
- foursomes who are all bad... I'd have some sort of segregation... no more of a combined handicap for any group of 60 or something. It's when you get a foursome with guys who cant play together things stack up... four scratch golfers fine... but four players with a 24 handicap... PLEASE!
The following winds me up:
- people who are 300 yards away from the green using those laser things and shouting over to their playing partner "do I need the 3 wood from here?" YES YOU DO - HIT IT MAN!
- foursomes who are all bad... I'd have some sort of segregation... no more of a combined handicap for any group of 60 or something. It's when you get a foursome with guys who cant play together things stack up... four scratch golfers fine... but four players with a 24 handicap... PLEASE!
#19
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 08:54 PM
steve, what do you mean by children, i'm 13, so do you mean i shouldnt be allowed on during weekends?
#20
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 09:36 PM
Steve_FLA, on Dec 12 2006, 04:45 PM, said:
It was not that long ago that public courses did not allow women or children to play on weekends. That being said, when I started at golf I sucked just as bad as anyone else...so I understand it takes time and a lot of hard work to get good at golf. And public courses would never turn anyone away since they would be tunring away money.
My friend is 10 years old an plays to an 8 handicap. I think it would be horrible for a course to turn someone away just becuase of age/ gender. What if Annika Soranstam came to your home course, would she not be allowed to play? Isn't that illegal for discrimination of age/ gender?
#21
Posted 12 December 2006 - 09:45 PM
Many of the suggestions would close down the course that you so want to play in 4hrs.
- public courses required a handicap on weekends (12 or lower)
- not allow women or children to play on weekends
- Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
Wow you lot are unbelievable. I've been the DoG or HP at various facilities each with different objectives. Public/Muni courses differ from Private in how many 4-some per hour are alotted on the tee-sheet. Usually at public/muni courses it is every 7/8 minutes MAXIMUM. And even then you will find a way to "sqeeze" in an additional 1 to 2 4-somes every 4 hrs.
At the "upscale" public courses that I've run, we ran at 10 minute intervals minimum. One place was 12 min, but you payed for that luxury. "Usually" at these facilities I had a large enough budget to employ course marshalls and starters at the first tee that do nothing but monitor pace of play. And the occasional ball hawking. If we had a slow group, the marshall would act as a forecaddy for that group to help them catch up. If they continued to have a problem they would pick up their balls and place them at the 150y marker behind the group that should be behind. If they continued to have a problem, I or my HP asked them to come back to the clubhouse where we gave them a full refund.
Rarely did I have to perform that task, but again you the guest payed for that luxury to the tune of $200/ea.
No women or juniors.....you guys are killing me.
I kept track of every groups time at one private club I worked at and the Men's club were the biggest complainers of the bunch. "the women are too slow" "these damn kids are a too slow".
Well guess what, the Men were the slowest group we had. Their constant bickering and complaining backfired on them. It's like that at most clubs actually.
The Ladies club's are usually the quicker group of these two and they don't give you anything. The Men are giving putts "inside the leather". The Ladies will not give their own kid a 6" putt.
Golf is a pastime for most, but make no mistake it is a business. A business that "excludes" better not take in any outside revenue or they will not be allowed to exclusionary. A business that ceases to at least break even, ceases to be a business - and that includes private country clubs.
And that public courses are exactly that PUBLIC.
- public courses required a handicap on weekends (12 or lower)
- not allow women or children to play on weekends
- Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
Wow you lot are unbelievable. I've been the DoG or HP at various facilities each with different objectives. Public/Muni courses differ from Private in how many 4-some per hour are alotted on the tee-sheet. Usually at public/muni courses it is every 7/8 minutes MAXIMUM. And even then you will find a way to "sqeeze" in an additional 1 to 2 4-somes every 4 hrs.
At the "upscale" public courses that I've run, we ran at 10 minute intervals minimum. One place was 12 min, but you payed for that luxury. "Usually" at these facilities I had a large enough budget to employ course marshalls and starters at the first tee that do nothing but monitor pace of play. And the occasional ball hawking. If we had a slow group, the marshall would act as a forecaddy for that group to help them catch up. If they continued to have a problem they would pick up their balls and place them at the 150y marker behind the group that should be behind. If they continued to have a problem, I or my HP asked them to come back to the clubhouse where we gave them a full refund.
Rarely did I have to perform that task, but again you the guest payed for that luxury to the tune of $200/ea.
No women or juniors.....you guys are killing me.
I kept track of every groups time at one private club I worked at and the Men's club were the biggest complainers of the bunch. "the women are too slow" "these damn kids are a too slow".
Well guess what, the Men were the slowest group we had. Their constant bickering and complaining backfired on them. It's like that at most clubs actually.
The Ladies club's are usually the quicker group of these two and they don't give you anything. The Men are giving putts "inside the leather". The Ladies will not give their own kid a 6" putt.
Golf is a pastime for most, but make no mistake it is a business. A business that "excludes" better not take in any outside revenue or they will not be allowed to exclusionary. A business that ceases to at least break even, ceases to be a business - and that includes private country clubs.
And that public courses are exactly that PUBLIC.
#22
Posted 12 December 2006 - 09:50 PM
bjackson, on Dec 12 2006, 09:36 PM, said:
Steve_FLA, on Dec 12 2006, 04:45 PM, said:
It was not that long ago that public courses did not allow women or children to play on weekends. That being said, when I started at golf I sucked just as bad as anyone else...so I understand it takes time and a lot of hard work to get good at golf. And public courses would never turn anyone away since they would be tunring away money.
My friend is 10 years old an plays to an 8 handicap. I think it would be horrible for a course to turn someone away just becuase of age/ gender. What if Annika Soranstam came to your home course, would she not be allowed to play? Isn't that illegal for discrimination of age/ gender?
I am 39 years old. When I was 13 years old I was not allowed to play on the PUBLIC COURSE in my town on weekends until after 12:00. I remember standing in the pro shop and listening to the club manager explain to me that it is club policy not to let children under the age of 16 on the course on weekends before noon. Back in 1980 you did not have political correctness (as you do now) and no one thought this was a absurd rule.
You are misunderstanding my comments. I am not saying I agree with it. All I said is some courses use to enforce it. Any other "old timers" ever have this happen to them when they were a kid?
-Steve
#23
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 09:59 PM
I have to disagree with bad players not being able to play fast. My friend and his wife who I regularly play with are two of the fastest I have ever played with and are faster than me in a lot of ways. This is because 1) they have no ego and know exactly how far they can hit a shot and don't wait to go for a par 5 from 250, and 2) they play ready golf.
That's all you need to do, be ready to play and know your own game. They also pick up after a double par. That can help too.
That's all you need to do, be ready to play and know your own game. They also pick up after a double par. That can help too.
#24
Posted 12 December 2006 - 10:09 PM
RNF, on Dec 12 2006, 09:45 PM, said:
Many of the suggestions would close down the course that you so want to play in 4hrs.
- public courses required a handicap on weekends (12 or lower)
- not allow women or children to play on weekends
- Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
Wow you lot are unbelievable. I've been the DoG or HP at various facilities each with different objectives. Public/Muni courses differ from Private in how many 4-some per hour are alotted on the tee-sheet. Usually at public/muni courses it is every 7/8 minutes MAXIMUM. And even then you will find a way to "sqeeze" in an additional 1 to 2 4-somes every 4 hrs.
At the "upscale" public courses that I've run, we ran at 10 minute intervals minimum. One place was 12 min, but you payed for that luxury. "Usually" at these facilities I had a large enough budget to employ course marshalls and starters at the first tee that do nothing but monitor pace of play. And the occasional ball hawking. If we had a slow group, the marshall would act as a forecaddy for that group to help them catch up. If they continued to have a problem they would pick up their balls and place them at the 150y marker behind the group that should be behind. If they continued to have a problem, I or my HP asked them to come back to the clubhouse where we gave them a full refund.
Rarely did I have to perform that task, but again you the guest payed for that luxury to the tune of $200/ea.
No women or juniors.....you guys are killing me.
I kept track of every groups time at one private club I worked at and the Men's club were the biggest complainers of the bunch. "the women are too slow" "these damn kids are a too slow".
Well guess what, the Men were the slowest group we had. Their constant bickering and complaining backfired on them. It's like that at most clubs actually.
The Ladies club's are usually the quicker group of these two and they don't give you anything. The Men are giving putts "inside the leather". The Ladies will not give their own kid a 6" putt.
Golf is a pastime for most, but make no mistake it is a business. A business that "excludes" better not take in any outside revenue or they will not be allowed to exclusionary. A business that ceases to at least break even, ceases to be a business - and that includes private country clubs.
And that public courses are exactly that PUBLIC.
- public courses required a handicap on weekends (12 or lower)
- not allow women or children to play on weekends
- Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
Wow you lot are unbelievable. I've been the DoG or HP at various facilities each with different objectives. Public/Muni courses differ from Private in how many 4-some per hour are alotted on the tee-sheet. Usually at public/muni courses it is every 7/8 minutes MAXIMUM. And even then you will find a way to "sqeeze" in an additional 1 to 2 4-somes every 4 hrs.
At the "upscale" public courses that I've run, we ran at 10 minute intervals minimum. One place was 12 min, but you payed for that luxury. "Usually" at these facilities I had a large enough budget to employ course marshalls and starters at the first tee that do nothing but monitor pace of play. And the occasional ball hawking. If we had a slow group, the marshall would act as a forecaddy for that group to help them catch up. If they continued to have a problem they would pick up their balls and place them at the 150y marker behind the group that should be behind. If they continued to have a problem, I or my HP asked them to come back to the clubhouse where we gave them a full refund.
Rarely did I have to perform that task, but again you the guest payed for that luxury to the tune of $200/ea.
No women or juniors.....you guys are killing me.
I kept track of every groups time at one private club I worked at and the Men's club were the biggest complainers of the bunch. "the women are too slow" "these damn kids are a too slow".
Well guess what, the Men were the slowest group we had. Their constant bickering and complaining backfired on them. It's like that at most clubs actually.
The Ladies club's are usually the quicker group of these two and they don't give you anything. The Men are giving putts "inside the leather". The Ladies will not give their own kid a 6" putt.
Golf is a pastime for most, but make no mistake it is a business. A business that "excludes" better not take in any outside revenue or they will not be allowed to exclusionary. A business that ceases to at least break even, ceases to be a business - and that includes private country clubs.
And that public courses are exactly that PUBLIC.
With that kind of comment I doubt very much if you actually have as much experience as you say. To say men are always slower than women and children is silly. And that men give other men putts but women don't? I have a USGA handicap. I don't concede putts for myself or anyone else. And this goes for the majority of members (male and female) at my club and at the previous place I played golf at. Where you see people conceding putts is the weekend hackers that don't have USGA handicaps.
If you think that slow play has nothing to do with the caliber of golfers or their respect to other golfers (see my post on public vs. private clubs) then I think you are serisously mistaken. And if we want to stop being politically correct for a minute. The womens league at my club does not go out until 10:00 on weekends. The reason is the majority of them are not very good. And the women realize this and are not offended by it. And yes, their are a couple of women who can break 80. But most of them struggle to break 100. This is nothing against women (I have a daughter that plays golf) it's against poor golfers who play slow.
#25
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 10:16 PM
Steve_FLA, on Dec 12 2006, 06:50 PM, said:
bjackson, on Dec 12 2006, 09:36 PM, said:
Steve_FLA, on Dec 12 2006, 04:45 PM, said:
It was not that long ago that public courses did not allow women or children to play on weekends. That being said, when I started at golf I sucked just as bad as anyone else...so I understand it takes time and a lot of hard work to get good at golf. And public courses would never turn anyone away since they would be tunring away money.
My friend is 10 years old an plays to an 8 handicap. I think it would be horrible for a course to turn someone away just becuase of age/ gender. What if Annika Soranstam came to your home course, would she not be allowed to play? Isn't that illegal for discrimination of age/ gender?
I am 39 years old. When I was 13 years old I was not allowed to play on the PUBLIC COURSE in my town on weekends until after 12:00. I remember standing in the pro shop and listening to the club manager explain to me that it is club policy not to let children under the age of 16 on the course on weekends before noon. Back in 1980 you did not have political correctness (as you do now) and no one thought this was a absurd rule.
You are misunderstanding my comments. I am not saying I agree with it. All I said is some courses use to enforce it. Any other "old timers" ever have this happen to them when they were a kid?
-Steve
Absolutely....There were actually a few courses that would watch me hit it off the first tee before deciding if I would be allowed to play.....Those were the days....One of the major problems I see are groups of beginners playing the back tees at very tough golf courses...When I see that, and they all hit multiple tee shots off #1 while others are waiting, I know I'm in for quite a day...
#26
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Posted 12 December 2006 - 11:49 PM
I think the problem is, is that most people are afraid to say something to the people in thier group. There is nothing wrong with saying "I think we need to pick it up we are falling behind the group in front of us" I think most people are afraid to hurt someones feeling that are in thier foursome. Forget the manners, it is rude to play slow golf period. You dont have to be a jerk about it, but dont be a wuss either.
If someone cant hang help them along. BTW, skill level only has a minor impact on how fast you play, I am a 5 handicap and consider myself a fast player, however I have played with scratch player that are slow and I have played with people who arent capable of making par more than twice a round who know how to keep up.
Help someone look for a ball if they are searching for it, and for Christ sakes take a club out of the cart and walk 20 yards to your ball when you are waiting on you partner to hit his shot.
If someone cant hang help them along. BTW, skill level only has a minor impact on how fast you play, I am a 5 handicap and consider myself a fast player, however I have played with scratch player that are slow and I have played with people who arent capable of making par more than twice a round who know how to keep up.
Help someone look for a ball if they are searching for it, and for Christ sakes take a club out of the cart and walk 20 yards to your ball when you are waiting on you partner to hit his shot.
#27
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Posted 13 December 2006 - 02:21 AM
I'm also a junior but I seemingly face a different situation to you other young guys. When me and my friends are playing a practice round we generally get let through mainly because of un-intended intimidation. When a group of four hackers are 100 metres in front of us they turn around and see four fit young men wearing bright colors and white belts takeing 100mph practice swings. They get self councious and let us through.
BUT in competitions we NEVER get let through. It's not uncommon at my club to have three or four groups on one hole. Very strict and probably unfair measures will need to be enforced to see any significant change in round times.
(Who am I kidding, I have nothing else to do then play golf anyway )
BUT in competitions we NEVER get let through. It's not uncommon at my club to have three or four groups on one hole. Very strict and probably unfair measures will need to be enforced to see any significant change in round times.
(Who am I kidding, I have nothing else to do then play golf anyway
)
#28
Posted 13 December 2006 - 03:11 AM
ElGavilan, on Dec 12 2006, 04:19 PM, said:
Good golfers regardless of their handicaps appreciate and have an understanding of the game of golf. As a result, with few exceptions, they play at a reasonable pace.
Slow play for the most part is caused by players who play badly. They hit very few fairways (lots of time looking for lost balls). They miss most greens -- even Par 3's (lots of setup time before hitting meidocre or poor chips and pitches). They think they can handle putting and have elaborate routines and spend time looking at a putt from all four sides.
There are a lot of really bad players (notice I don't say golfers) out there -- less than 10% of golfers break 90 on a regular basis and many shoot well over 100 -- all of these strokes take time. Add in lost and missing balls and you have slow play.
Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
Slow play for the most part is caused by players who play badly. They hit very few fairways (lots of time looking for lost balls). They miss most greens -- even Par 3's (lots of setup time before hitting meidocre or poor chips and pitches). They think they can handle putting and have elaborate routines and spend time looking at a putt from all four sides.
There are a lot of really bad players (notice I don't say golfers) out there -- less than 10% of golfers break 90 on a regular basis and many shoot well over 100 -- all of these strokes take time. Add in lost and missing balls and you have slow play.
Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
Here's a solution: play for money and you won't be worried about slow play. Hit them in their wallet and they'll want to get better.
#29
Posted 13 December 2006 - 09:37 AM
Steve_FLA, on Dec 12 2006, 09:09 PM, said:
RNF, on Dec 12 2006, 09:45 PM, said:
Many of the suggestions would close down the course that you so want to play in 4hrs.
- public courses required a handicap on weekends (12 or lower)
- not allow women or children to play on weekends
- Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
Wow you lot are unbelievable. I've been the DoG or HP at various facilities each with different objectives. Public/Muni courses differ from Private in how many 4-some per hour are alotted on the tee-sheet. Usually at public/muni courses it is every 7/8 minutes MAXIMUM. And even then you will find a way to "sqeeze" in an additional 1 to 2 4-somes every 4 hrs.
At the "upscale" public courses that I've run, we ran at 10 minute intervals minimum. One place was 12 min, but you payed for that luxury. "Usually" at these facilities I had a large enough budget to employ course marshalls and starters at the first tee that do nothing but monitor pace of play. And the occasional ball hawking. If we had a slow group, the marshall would act as a forecaddy for that group to help them catch up. If they continued to have a problem they would pick up their balls and place them at the 150y marker behind the group that should be behind. If they continued to have a problem, I or my HP asked them to come back to the clubhouse where we gave them a full refund.
Rarely did I have to perform that task, but again you the guest payed for that luxury to the tune of $200/ea.
No women or juniors.....you guys are killing me.
I kept track of every groups time at one private club I worked at and the Men's club were the biggest complainers of the bunch. "the women are too slow" "these damn kids are a too slow".
Well guess what, the Men were the slowest group we had. Their constant bickering and complaining backfired on them. It's like that at most clubs actually.
The Ladies club's are usually the quicker group of these two and they don't give you anything. The Men are giving putts "inside the leather". The Ladies will not give their own kid a 6" putt.
Golf is a pastime for most, but make no mistake it is a business. A business that "excludes" better not take in any outside revenue or they will not be allowed to exclusionary. A business that ceases to at least break even, ceases to be a business - and that includes private country clubs.
And that public courses are exactly that PUBLIC.
- public courses required a handicap on weekends (12 or lower)
- not allow women or children to play on weekends
- Until the golf community is willing to move away from Political Correctness and step on some toes and hurt some feelings and insist on improvement of play via lessons, practice, and hard work; we will have slow play.
Wow you lot are unbelievable. I've been the DoG or HP at various facilities each with different objectives. Public/Muni courses differ from Private in how many 4-some per hour are alotted on the tee-sheet. Usually at public/muni courses it is every 7/8 minutes MAXIMUM. And even then you will find a way to "sqeeze" in an additional 1 to 2 4-somes every 4 hrs.
At the "upscale" public courses that I've run, we ran at 10 minute intervals minimum. One place was 12 min, but you payed for that luxury. "Usually" at these facilities I had a large enough budget to employ course marshalls and starters at the first tee that do nothing but monitor pace of play. And the occasional ball hawking. If we had a slow group, the marshall would act as a forecaddy for that group to help them catch up. If they continued to have a problem they would pick up their balls and place them at the 150y marker behind the group that should be behind. If they continued to have a problem, I or my HP asked them to come back to the clubhouse where we gave them a full refund.
Rarely did I have to perform that task, but again you the guest payed for that luxury to the tune of $200/ea.
No women or juniors.....you guys are killing me.
I kept track of every groups time at one private club I worked at and the Men's club were the biggest complainers of the bunch. "the women are too slow" "these damn kids are a too slow".
Well guess what, the Men were the slowest group we had. Their constant bickering and complaining backfired on them. It's like that at most clubs actually.
The Ladies club's are usually the quicker group of these two and they don't give you anything. The Men are giving putts "inside the leather". The Ladies will not give their own kid a 6" putt.
Golf is a pastime for most, but make no mistake it is a business. A business that "excludes" better not take in any outside revenue or they will not be allowed to exclusionary. A business that ceases to at least break even, ceases to be a business - and that includes private country clubs.
And that public courses are exactly that PUBLIC.
With that kind of comment I doubt very much if you actually have as much experience as you say. To say men are always slower than women and children is silly. And that men give other men putts but women don't? I have a USGA handicap. I don't concede putts for myself or anyone else. And this goes for the majority of members (male and female) at my club and at the previous place I played golf at. Where you see people conceding putts is the weekend hackers that don't have USGA handicaps.
If you think that slow play has nothing to do with the caliber of golfers or their respect to other golfers (see my post on public vs. private clubs) then I think you are serisously mistaken. And if we want to stop being politically correct for a minute. The womens league at my club does not go out until 10:00 on weekends. The reason is the majority of them are not very good. And the women realize this and are not offended by it. And yes, their are a couple of women who can break 80. But most of them struggle to break 100. This is nothing against women (I have a daughter that plays golf) it's against poor golfers who play slow.
Where did I say that men where always slower than children?
Where did I say that men are ALWAYS slower than women?
I said "The Ladies club's are usually the quicker group of these two". Guess what, hold your ego, it's absolutely true.
Please don't put words in my mouth - thank you.
As for men's club not giving "inside the leather". Well I've never seen 1 18-hole Ladies Club do it (9-hole Ladies Club - YES) NEVER, but I have seen 3 18-hole Men's Club's do it. Every private and semi-private club I have worked for has ALWAYS included a USGA handicap with membership dues. The cheapest membership initialtion has been the semi-private club at $25,000, the two privates were $85,000 ( I believe it's down to $40,000 last I knew of) and $forget it we'll ask you.
As for my experience, you can think what you like, your entitled to it, even if you have no idea.
As long as my employers trust me with their $20m golf course, I really don't need an approval rating from you now do I?
Here's some info for you. If your business (that's what this is BTW) takes in outside money, then you have to deal with political correctness. I've worked at two different private clubs that were setup this way so they could operate however they wanted. They could be invite only for membership, exclude you because you wore glasses.....whatever their desires were. Otherwise, you are setting yourself up for an ugly fall in todays world. It's just a reality that we must deal with.
I've opened two golf courses that rated 41/2 stars from Golf Digest Magazine, (#1 in the country in 1996, thank you very little) and when I get this next one opened to the fanfare it deserves, why don't you make the trip to Texas and tell me how inexperienced I am. Maybe you can call my owners and tell them your opinion.
#30
Posted 13 December 2006 - 11:30 AM
Let the bashing continue, but back to the topic. I have now put the suggestions in the order that I think might have an impact. Still looking for more suggestions, and/or ideas on what is more important or more practically likely to have some impact.
As for the business side, I've often wondered if a course would enforce a 4 hour pace and then advertise whether that course might get more business...it would certainly get mine.
Paced play assumptions…
1) Paced play is finishing an 18 hole round in less than 4 hours
2) Paced play is a courtesy to other golfers and to the game itself
3) Paced play takes priority over optimum scoring except Tournaments (and should still be
enforced even in Tournaments)
4) All non-Tournament golf is casual golf (even if it's for blood or money)
5) Paced bad (or good) golf is better than slow bad (or good) golf
Golfers should…
1) Play ready golf
2) Stay up with the group ahead of you
3) Take no more than 2 practice swings
4) Take club options to your ball so you don’t have to return to your cart
5) Putt out all putts less than 3 feet (don’t mark the ball)
6) Pick up at double or triple bogey
7) Limit looking for lost balls (5 minutes is Tournament only; max 2 minutes for casual play)
8) Be ready to hit as soon as you reach the teebox
9) Put clubs in your bag and mark scores when others aren't waiting
10) Hit away when the group ahead is out of range (no, you can’t hit the green from 240)
11) Play teeboxes appropriate to handicap whenever possible
White (forward men’s): 16+
Blue (back men’s): 8-16
Championship: 8 and under
12) Let faster players play through
13) Call for course rangers if play is slow
14) Turn time is 5 minutes
Golf courses should
1) Advise all players of requirements for paced play
2) Give all players a courtesy card/otherwise post paced play advisory
3) Have a clear and consistent policy regarding slow play
4) Have rangers enforce slow play policies
As for the business side, I've often wondered if a course would enforce a 4 hour pace and then advertise whether that course might get more business...it would certainly get mine.
Paced play assumptions…
1) Paced play is finishing an 18 hole round in less than 4 hours
2) Paced play is a courtesy to other golfers and to the game itself
3) Paced play takes priority over optimum scoring except Tournaments (and should still be
enforced even in Tournaments)
4) All non-Tournament golf is casual golf (even if it's for blood or money)
5) Paced bad (or good) golf is better than slow bad (or good) golf
Golfers should…
1) Play ready golf
2) Stay up with the group ahead of you
3) Take no more than 2 practice swings
4) Take club options to your ball so you don’t have to return to your cart
5) Putt out all putts less than 3 feet (don’t mark the ball)
6) Pick up at double or triple bogey
7) Limit looking for lost balls (5 minutes is Tournament only; max 2 minutes for casual play)
8) Be ready to hit as soon as you reach the teebox
9) Put clubs in your bag and mark scores when others aren't waiting
10) Hit away when the group ahead is out of range (no, you can’t hit the green from 240)
11) Play teeboxes appropriate to handicap whenever possible
White (forward men’s): 16+
Blue (back men’s): 8-16
Championship: 8 and under
12) Let faster players play through
13) Call for course rangers if play is slow
14) Turn time is 5 minutes
Golf courses should
1) Advise all players of requirements for paced play
2) Give all players a courtesy card/otherwise post paced play advisory
3) Have a clear and consistent policy regarding slow play
4) Have rangers enforce slow play policies
#31
Posted 13 December 2006 - 01:24 PM
RNF...
In your original post you implied that woman groups usually play faster then men groups...I called you on it and then you say you never said that. Then in your final post you said women groups usually play faster than men groups...make up your mind.
In my 30 years of golfing I would say good golfers play faster than bad golfers. Bad golfers make up men, children and women (same as good golfers). Sorry you got offended by my comment about the group of older women at my club that play slow. If it makes you feel any better they are a skins group at my club that is older men and they play slow. The one thing they all have in common is they are not very good golfers and they play slow.
No need to put your resume on the screen for all of us to read. I am sure what your posted is the truth...but who knows?
-Steve
In your original post you implied that woman groups usually play faster then men groups...I called you on it and then you say you never said that. Then in your final post you said women groups usually play faster than men groups...make up your mind.
In my 30 years of golfing I would say good golfers play faster than bad golfers. Bad golfers make up men, children and women (same as good golfers). Sorry you got offended by my comment about the group of older women at my club that play slow. If it makes you feel any better they are a skins group at my club that is older men and they play slow. The one thing they all have in common is they are not very good golfers and they play slow.
No need to put your resume on the screen for all of us to read. I am sure what your posted is the truth...but who knows?
-Steve
#32
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Posted 13 December 2006 - 04:28 PM
It's funny over this side of the pond we don't have as much of a problem with slow play. I consider 4 hours to be slow. It's always the 'pesky Americans' that come over and slow the whole course up! 
As well, I think over here we don't have as much ego and will let players through and nearly always lay up (it's amazing the amount of times I've been told by my playing partners that I wouldn't reach the green- I proved them all wrong)
As well, I think over here we don't have as much ego and will let players through and nearly always lay up (it's amazing the amount of times I've been told by my playing partners that I wouldn't reach the green- I proved them all wrong)
#33
Posted 13 December 2006 - 04:57 PM
emc, on Dec 13 2006, 04:28 PM, said:
It's funny over this side of the pond we don't have as much of a problem with slow play. I consider 4 hours to be slow. It's always the 'pesky Americans' that come over and slow the whole course up! As well, I think over here we don't have as much ego and will let players through and nearly always lay up (it's amazing the amount of times I've been told by my playing partners that I wouldn't reach the green- I proved them all wrong)
As well, I think over here we don't have as much ego and will let players through and nearly always lay up (it's amazing the amount of times I've been told by my playing partners that I wouldn't reach the green- I proved them all wrong)I've participated in a number of these threads over the years, and this does seem to be a predominantly American problem. As I understand it, expected pace of play at the Old Course is 3 1/2 hours. I suspect it's a combination of bigger American egos (hackers and even non-hackers just taking themselves too seriously) and more target golf courses. Play on the European Tour seems a bit faster than the U.S. Tour - seems to less of the marking of the 1 foot putts; of course, the $$$ (or euro's) involved are a bit less.
#34
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Posted 14 December 2006 - 11:59 AM
I remember course not allowing me on till i was 10 and on weekends no one under 16 till noon.
Of course i remember playing early because only good golfers came out them, i didnt for awhile. then it switched and everyone came out early good and bad, to me i dont care i can play with anyone just keep a good pace.
Of course i remember playing early because only good golfers came out them, i didnt for awhile. then it switched and everyone came out early good and bad, to me i dont care i can play with anyone just keep a good pace.
#35
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Posted 14 December 2006 - 12:29 PM
What if the PGA of America, instituted a player card program... online test or test with a PGA pro on etiquette, pace of play etc. Make it reasonable like $10 or something..... Courses could institute a policy where without passing the criteria (having the card), you cannot play during peak times. Just a thought, I am tired of the 5-6 hour rounds due to slow groups, useless rangers etc. I would be more than happy to take the time to get the card.
#36
Posted 14 December 2006 - 01:54 PM
At what point are you allowed to politely hit on the slow moving group? Is it ok after 15 minutes of waiting for your second shot and they still haven't cleared the green to roll one up? I'm not talking about bombing it on them, but you know a nice gentle roller that cuts across the green as they are marking their 3" inch putt. Is that ok or am I just a jerk?
#37
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Posted 14 December 2006 - 05:27 PM
i wouldnt try it
#38 Gallery_midasmulligan2000_*
Posted 14 December 2006 - 08:30 PM
matjohns, on Dec 14 2006, 02:54 PM, said:
At what point are you allowed to politely hit on the slow moving group? Is it ok after 15 minutes of waiting for your second shot and they still haven't cleared the green to roll one up? I'm not talking about bombing it on them, but you know a nice gentle roller that cuts across the green as they are marking their 3" inch putt. Is that ok or am I just a jerk?
That would be bad IMO. I maintain my own standards of etiquette - I consider it so essential to what golf is that I could not imagine doing otherwise. Others may not do so - may neglect to replace divots or rake traps or fix ball marks on greens ... or hold up a dozen groups behind them with their pace of play - but people that do not understand what golf etiquette are not going to drag me down to their level. Ever.
#39
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Posted 14 December 2006 - 08:37 PM
midasmulligan2000, on Dec 14 2006, 07:30 PM, said:
matjohns, on Dec 14 2006, 02:54 PM, said:
At what point are you allowed to politely hit on the slow moving group? Is it ok after 15 minutes of waiting for your second shot and they still haven't cleared the green to roll one up? I'm not talking about bombing it on them, but you know a nice gentle roller that cuts across the green as they are marking their 3" inch putt. Is that ok or am I just a jerk?
That would be bad IMO. I maintain my own standards of etiquette - I consider it so essential to what golf is that I could not imagine doing otherwise. Others may not do so - may neglect to replace divots or rake traps or fix ball marks on greens ... or hold up a dozen groups behind them with their pace of play - but people that do not understand what golf etiquette are not going to drag me down to their level. Ever.
word...
#40
Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:12 PM
It's interesting how golf can represent the extremes. On the one hand you have jerks whose sole purpose in life is to take other players mentally out of their game (which I think is the primary cause of slow play...just no one will admit it) and on the other hand you have nice guys who would never think of even so much as a gentle love tap to let the group in front know they're being way irresponsible with everyone's time and money.
Upon reflection I don't think hitting on them is going to help the situation one bit...but it does cross my mind every now and then that my practice swing adjusted about 2 inches further out might just make for a nice little wake up call a few yards in front of the green. java script:emoticon(':drinks:', 'smid_16')
Upon reflection I don't think hitting on them is going to help the situation one bit...but it does cross my mind every now and then that my practice swing adjusted about 2 inches further out might just make for a nice little wake up call a few yards in front of the green. java script:emoticon(':drinks:', 'smid_16')
