49 replies to this topic

[502 to Right]

MKSmith, on 23 March 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

The public courses in Los Angeles are so full of people practicing during the day, you can barely find a spot to warm up prior to your round.

In cases like that it would make sense for a course to post rules/signage that you have to purchase a round or range balls to have access to the seemingly "free" practice areas.

I live in SE Wisconsin where overcrowding is never a problem.  There are a couple of public courses near me at which I often practice, and sometimes it's just my putting so I don't pay anything. I also play these courses pretty regularly and know the staff.  I would be shocked if they told me I had to buy range balls or be paying for a round that day to use the practice green.

I will also add that I'm appreciative of this privilege and will help clean up the practice green if someone has sprayed 50 range balls all over and left them.  I also am NOT the player who sprays balls all over during practice (in fact I generally only practice putting with one ball at a time).

[natedd]

I work close to 3 municipal golf courses and a municipal practice facility.  The practice facility has heated/covered hitting stalls, an indoor putting green, a 2 green short game area, a large outdoor grass range, a large outdoor putting green and a lighted par 3 course.  

They charge for everything except the outdoor putting green and I gladly pay.   Even when I go to use the outdoor green, I always pick up a candy bar and drink.  

I love the location and the facility, while not posh, is always in good repair.  They have a nice staff and really cater to their customers.  

I also use the practice areas of a couple of nice daily fee courses, and actually prefer buying a small bag of range balls for practice because then I don't have to watch my stuff like a hawk.  There always seems to be a guy or 2 that carelessly (or intentionally) snags one of my practice balls while I am out there.

[johnnymoose270]

regardless of private or municipal (why the muni hate?) these places should be treated with equal respect.  obviously members and people playing that day should feel welcome to use these facilities, but non players would be welcome as well in most cases.  you should be inquiring with management for permission to use them...if you are afraid to ask for fear of being turned down then i think you know your answer....

[Longshoe]

I've always bought something when I've used the practice area, just seemed like the right thing to do.  Usually, I'll just buy a small bucket for the range, hit most of those, then go work on short game...

[jbrunone]

I would check the pro shop next time, my course is public and has a wonderful facility however it costs 20$ to use them

[clutchfan]

I would have asked the security guard if there was something I could help him with...Then asked him what he is doing by my vehicle. If they wanted me to pay for my time there I would be more than happy to, and I would have probably asked to begin with.  But in this situation I would have been asking the security guard what he was doing.

[play18now]

Since I'm not a member at a private course I play the same public one's regularly and never have had this problem.  Mostly because I know the guys who work there by name and they don't care what I do for the most part.  If there's not a sign (which there are marking boundaries to practice areas at this course) I'd say keep at it.

[Parker0065]

Kind of suprised this is a topic but maybe in the largest of Metro areas like NYC, or L.A. this is a problem due to over crowding. I've never been questioned about using practice facilities,,,ever,,,lol!  I play and practice a lot so it's pretty rare that I just go to one particular course and just use their practice green without hitting range balls but I have done it many times all over the country over the years. Countless times I've had starters come up and ask if I was playing today and I would reply no I'm just here to practice and they would say OK and walk away without question or funny looks. Maybe I've spent too many years on and around golf courses but I've never looked at it like "am I supposed to be here",,lol!  As long as your dressed properly and diligently working on your game, not tearing anything up or leaving 50 balls on the green. When I was preparing for a US Open qualifier I went to a private club near me that I'm not a member of and asked to use their practice green because the greens were a bit faster than my home course. The pro had no problem at all and even gave me some free range balls to hit. So at a Private course I would definitely ask before I used their facilities, but any Public or Resort course I've used has never questioned my practicing.


Perhaps it's just attitude, if your looking around and acting like you "snuck on" then maybe that makes the staff question you. A golf course is my home away from home so I would never feel like I shouldn't be there,,,,well,,,except maybe if it was Augusta National,,,lol!


Are you sure the course you went to wasn't Semi-Private perhaps?

Edited by Parker0065, 24 March 2012 - 09:19 AM.

[jabrch]

To me, this goes two ways....

I totally have no problem with what the OP did.  I do it myself from time to time.  There's no sign saying you can't...there have no fee structure for using that space....there is no admission charge...you aren't taking anything that they are trying to charge for.  

At the same time, IF (and I haven't heard of this) the course decided they had a policy that you must either buy something, or pay a "practice fee", I wouldn't have a problem with that.  I wouldn't pay it myself - because I live by a great public practice facility where they don't charge me and I can chip, pitch, putt all I want - but if they wanted to, and had a policy to do so, I wouldn't object to them doing it.

Part of the difference is a privately owned public facility and a municipal facility.  A privately owned, public course, can do what it wants to create revenue.  A publicly owned, municipal facility, is also there to serve their community and needs to balance fee based services with public service.  From the sound of it, this is a privately owned, public facility - and I would totally understand if they had a policy that no loitering was allowed.

[Petethreeput]

I cannot believe this topic has come up again.
Good golf courses have maintenance budget in the $100's of thousands of dollars.  I personally don't have a practice area in my yard because I simply cant afford the time to maintain it, or the money to get it done.
How would you feel if you did have a practice area in your yard, and a stranger stopped at your house and started using your facility?  Didn't ask, didn't offer to pay anything, and then left?  I would be angry.
A golf course is not a public park.  A golf course, unless it is a muni, is private property open to the public for a fee.  IMO, if you do not ask permission specifically to practice without paying, then you are trespassing on someone's property.  They have invested in the maintenance for their customers, and by practicing without even making a token purchase is simply wrong.
If people want to practice for free, they should excavate their land, buy the equipment to maintain the area and then they will understand that "free" really isn't free, and that using someone else's resources without renumeration is more accurately not "free" per se, but "free loading."  

[awil]

I wouldn't recommend pissing security guards off in Florida you might end up dead.. But just saying I wouldn't stop anywhere unless I'm spending money in any form ie putting during a wedding reception ( my favorite as a 16 year old)

[Parker0065]

Or you could look at it this way, A golf course is a place of business that wants to attract customers. If I go to a car lot to look at a new car and the salesman comes up and asks if I'm ready to buy and I say no thanks I'm just looking, then he says well get the hell off my lot if your not here to buy, how long do you think that guy will stay in business,,,,probably not very long. I just don't think the idea that a home practice green you built and paid for can be compared to a Public facility that is run to make a profit and attract customers. Most courses I've been a member at were privately owned and open to the public and those owners welcome as many possible future customers to their facility as possible. So a guy comes by and putts at the green a couple times, likes the look of the course, is treated friendly and decides to come back with a few buddies and play 18. Welcoming people to your course with a friendly smile will be much more profitable in the long run.

And of course I'm talking about 100% Public courses, Private/Semi Private courses can be as exclusive as they want. Funny though that many of them are now opening their doors in my area to non-members a couple days a week. Who was it that said "It's the economy,,Stupid",,,,lol!

[SurfDuffer]

The course in question is owned by a state university and is public.

[Petethreeput]

My point was, someone is paying a lot of money to keep up the place.  At no point did the OP say he had any intention of playing there, simply he stopped by.  And, depending on the course (though it is now known to be a state University course) I was assuming it was private property, just like my yard.  I am not saying I would run an interloper off the grounds for chipping and putting for the very reason you point out, but I can say that it is common sense that if an individual has no interest in playing the course, the best solution is to not stop by, unless they are a member.  Or in this case, a paying customer, though again, if it is a state university, then I tend to flag a little bit as it becomes much grayer.

Parker0065, on 24 March 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Or you could look at it this way, A golf course is a place of business that wants to attract customers. If I go to a car lot to look at a new car and the salesman comes up and asks if I'm ready to buy and I say no thanks I'm just looking, then he says well get the hell off my lot if your not here to buy, how long do you think that guy will stay in business,,,,probably not very long. I just don't think the idea that a home practice green you built and paid for can be compared to a Public facility that is run to make a profit and attract customers. Most courses I've been a member at were privately owned and open to the public and those owners welcome as many possible future customers to their facility as possible. So a guy comes by and putts at the green a couple times, likes the look of the course, is treated friendly and decides to come back with a few buddies and play 18. Welcoming people to your course with a friendly smile will be much more profitable in the long run.

And of course I'm talking about 100% Public courses, Private/Semi Private courses can be as exclusive as they want. Funny though that many of them are now opening their doors in my area to non-members a couple days a week. Who was it that said "It's the economy,,Stupid",,,,lol!

Edited by Petethreeput, 24 March 2012 - 11:10 PM.

[Petethreeput]

This makes the quandary much murkier since your taxes go to maintaining the university.  On the other hand, I still think purchasing something... anything... is the better way to handle this.  Then at least you are a customer.

SurfDuffer, on 24 March 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

The course in question is owned by a state university and is public.

[Parker0065]

Petethreeput, on 24 March 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

My point was, someone is paying a lot of money to keep up the place.  At no point did the OP say he had any intention of playing there, simply he stopped by.  And, depending on the course (though it is now known to be a state University course) I was assuming it was private property, just like my yard.  I am not saying I would run an interloper off the grounds for chipping and putting for the very reason you point out, but I can say that it is common sense that if an individual has no interest in playing the course, the best solution is to not stop by, unless they are a member.  Or in this case, a paying customer, though again, if it is a state university, then I tend to flag a little bit as it becomes much grayer.

Parker0065, on 24 March 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Or you could look at it this way, A golf course is a place of business that wants to attract customers. If I go to a car lot to look at a new car and the salesman comes up and asks if I'm ready to buy and I say no thanks I'm just looking, then he says well get the hell off my lot if your not here to buy, how long do you think that guy will stay in business,,,,probably not very long. I just don't think the idea that a home practice green you built and paid for can be compared to a Public facility that is run to make a profit and attract customers. Most courses I've been a member at were privately owned and open to the public and those owners welcome as many possible future customers to their facility as possible. So a guy comes by and putts at the green a couple times, likes the look of the course, is treated friendly and decides to come back with a few buddies and play 18. Welcoming people to your course with a friendly smile will be much more profitable in the long run.

And of course I'm talking about 100% Public courses, Private/Semi Private courses can be as exclusive as they want. Funny though that many of them are now opening their doors in my area to non-members a couple days a week. Who was it that said "It's the economy,,Stupid",,,,lol!

No big deal, I was just using the personal practice green as a example. I get your perspective from a personal property point of view. From a business perspective there is a line between welcoming potential customers versus dealing with moochers who never pay to play. I would imagine the non paying, never spend a single dime at a course moochers are pretty far and few between, at least from my perspective and what I've witnessed. Usually the bigger concern is are there people out at the practice green causing damage or breaking rules such as "no chipping".  I've personally known a few course owners over the years and I've never heard any of them ever talk about people putting on their practice green was killing their business,,lol. They're concerned about people sneaking on the course, damaging the course, stealing range balls,,,,,and probably a million other things other than who's practicing 3 footers on their practice green. Someone stopping by to putt for 20-30 minutes on their way home from work, they are usually nice to because that guy is into the game and will most likely come back and play on the weekend. One out of a hundred guy's may putt on their practice green and never play their course but why would you waste your time interrogating everyone to find out if they have spent any money at your course. That would be beyond anal, and a complete waist of the owner and staff's time. Not to mention your probably going to lose more business by being so anal.

I'll ask my home course owner this week when I go out to play what they think about someone just coming out to putt on the practice green and I'll report back what they had to say.

[glauser]

Aithos, on 23 March 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Not all memberships cost ten grand, I paid 600 and several country clubs in my area are 2k a year in dues with under 1000 for initiation.  Also, I stand by my statement that if you want to practice you need to pay for something. Range balls or round doesn't matter, those areas are for paying customers. If someone is serious enough to want to practice those things on days they don't play they should have a membership and a place to do it anyway.

Otherwise go to a public park and chip over picnic tables, the golf course is *not* a public park.  They are privately owned in many cases, if it *is* a public park and owned by the city then they don't have security and if you *ask* they probably don't care if you use it.  The op was at a nice course with security, aka privately owned.  It's not ok.

What about a college student who can't afford to lay out cash for a membership but plays public courses 2-3 times a week?  He should have a membership?  Give me a break.

[Aithos]

glauser, on 25 March 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Aithos, on 23 March 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Not all memberships cost ten grand, I paid 600 and several country clubs in my area are 2k a year in dues with under 1000 for initiation.  Also, I stand by my statement that if you want to practice you need to pay for something. Range balls or round doesn't matter, those areas are for paying customers. If someone is serious enough to want to practice those things on days they don't play they should have a membership and a place to do it anyway.

Otherwise go to a public park and chip over picnic tables, the golf course is *not* a public park.  They are privately owned in many cases, if it *is* a public park and owned by the city then they don't have security and if you *ask* they probably don't care if you use it.  The op was at a nice course with security, aka privately owned.  It's not ok.

What about a college student who can't afford to lay out cash for a membership but plays public courses 2-3 times a week?  He should have a membership?  Give me a break.

If you can afford to play 2-3 times a week you can afford a membership, do the math on what courses cost to play that much.  And if you *can't* afford a bucket of balls or a round when you practice, tough luck.  I played less than 50 rounds in 7 years because I couldn't financially afford it, did I cry about not getting free golf?  No.  Give me a break.  People here don't get the money thing because it seems like most of you come from backgrounds where it wasn't a big deal, well I grew up poor and have had to fight and earn everything I have.  Just because you want to freeload and use a facility intended for paying customers doesn't mean it is right.  Even if there isn't a sign posted it is implied, if the OP *ASKS* and is told it's ok then I don't have a problem, if the OP doesn't ask then I'm not ok with it because he feels that they would tell him no.  Plain and simple, there isn't an argument for not asking if it's ok that you can defend.

[avrag]

Is there no such thing as a range fee in the US?
In continental Europe, almost all courses are "public" in the sense that they are usually private clubs, but everybody can play there, who is the member of any club, has an established handicap and pays the green fee. I guess this would be called "semi-private" in the US. Green fees include the use of the practice area before and after your round for the whole day.
In addition, everybody can use the practice facilities, provided he/she pays the so called "range fee", which is usually 15 to 25% of the green fee. You get a receipt which you put on your bag, and you can use the practice facilities all day long. Course marshalls will also check the range, the putting green and the short game practice area to make sure that the people who practice there, are either members or have paid their green fee or at least the range fee.
Nobody who is not a member or plays the course on that particular day, thus having paid the green fee, would ever use the practice facilities (including the putting green) without paying the "range fee".

[SurfDuffer]

Aithos, on 23 March 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

If someone is serious enough to want to practice those things on days they don't play they should have a membership and a place to do it anyway.

For the record, I'm an addict with memberships at two local courses.  Like I said earlier, I play this particular course a half dozen or so times a year.  I'm on the road constantly and sometimes you just want to take a break from work for between appointments.  Dressed for business.  Not damaging anything.  If I had been hassled do you know how many times a year I'd play the course????  Probably 0 if the person was a jerk about it.