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Interlocking grip - Interesting thought and question


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#1 eagles1

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:02 AM

I use the interlocking grip as I have small hands.  I saw an interesting comment made by Michael Breed yesterday about this grip.  He states that it is ok to use the grip, but don't lock the base of your right pinkie with the base between the left index and middle finger. Allow some space.

I have always had the base of my right pinkie touching the base between the left index and middle finger.

My question is how far down on the right pinkie should it lay on the base between the left index and middle finger of the left hand?  Should it be to the tip of the pinkie?  the first (outer) crease of the pinkie?  Second crease?

Hope I explained the question clearly enough.

I am a huge fan of the "Slicefixer" method but with the way I normally grip the club (base to base) I could never get it right (feel comfortable)..  Perhaps when I get the answer to my question the Slicefixer grip will come easier.

Thanks

Edited by eagles1, 15 March 2012 - 01:47 PM.


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#2 russc

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:03 AM

View Posteagles1, on 14 March 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

I use the interlocking grip as I have small hands.  I saw an interesting comment made by Michael Breed yesterday about this grip.  He states that it is ok to use the grip, but don't lock the the base of your right pinkie with the base between the left index and middle finger. Allow some space.

I have always had the base of my right pinkie touching the base between the left index and middle finger.

My question is how far down on the right pinkie should it lay on the base on the left base between the left index and middle finger?  Should it be to the tip of the pinkie?  the first (outer) crease of the pinkie?  Second crease?

Hope I explained the question clearly enough.

I am a huge fan of the "Slicefixer" method but with the way I normally grip the club (base to base) I could never get it right (feel comfortable)..  Perhaps when I get the answer to my question the Slicefixer grip will come easier.

Thanks

The interlock grip puts the PRESSURE POINTS in the lock between the right pinkie and the  left forefinger,instead of in the last 3 fingers of the left hand and middle 2 fingers of the right hand as the overlap grip does.I am not familiar with Mr Breed's suggestion ,but he seems to be trying to address this pressure point problem.

#3 akim1220

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:09 AM

I think what Breed was trying to point out is that if you mate the two hands together a lot of times people end up holding the club with the palm of their hands and not the fingers.

#4 eagles1

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:16 AM

Thanks Russc.

I am a big fan of your postings and I think you deliver a wealth of useful information to this forum.  I thank you for that.

Based upon your response, it would seem that the less further down the right pinkie is down towards the base between the left index/middle finger, the LESS PRESSURE on the lock and more on the last three fingers of left hand, thus advocating tip of right pinkie on base vs. right pinkie base/base between left index and middle finger.?

Thanks

Edited by eagles1, 15 March 2012 - 01:47 PM.


#5 russc

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:21 AM

View Posteagles1, on 14 March 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Thanks Russc.

I am a big fan of your postings and I think you deliver a wealth of useful information to this forume.  I thank you for that.

Based upon your response, it would seem that the less further down the right pinkie is down towards the base between the left index/middle finger, the LESS PRESSURE on the lock and more on the last three fingers of left hand, thus advocating tip of right pinkie on base vs. right pinkie base/base between left index and middle finger.?

Thanks

I am curious  as what to SPECIFIC PROBLEMS  that you have with the Slicefixer overlap grip and why it feels  so foreign and uncomfortable to you


#6 eagles1

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:54 AM

I have very small hands and the Vardon just feels awful.  Don't want to change.

As for my current grip, (base right pinkie into base between left/middle finger), it makes the diagnall hold in the left hand impossible.  Try it.

  It seems to work better if I don't jam right pinkie all the way into slot between left index/middle finger (i.e. now either tip but no further than first crease (upper) of right pinkie is on base between left index/middle finger.)

I hope I am verbalizing this clearly.  It's not as confusing as it sounds.

Also, in your opinion, is it possible to utilize Slicefixer's grip if you interlock?

Edited by eagles1, 15 March 2012 - 01:48 PM.


#7 HawkeyeDan

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:58 AM

I would also like to throw in there that if you go base to base, you also run the risk of your right hand getting too strong relative to your left (for righty's).  This can lead to inconsistancies.

#8 Cwebb

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:15 AM

You should try a 10 finger grip.  It's much easier to get the pressure points right without feeling awkward.  Position the grip exactly how it's described in the general Slicefixer grip, but with all your fingers clamped on the grip.

#9 leftofseinfeld

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:57 AM

from what I can tell, Tiger, Rory, Donald, and Jack all rest the top hands pinky flush with the bottom hands middle & index fingers, as well as the club. no space. I missed the show but hope I catch a rerun to give it a try.
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#10 golfdu

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:05 AM

Hey russc, slightly related question in relation to slicefixer's grip, are you supposed to maintain pressure in the "trigger" finger throughout the downswing as you pivot through agressively, keeping the arms in synch and the face squaring up by itself? I had an epiphany with the trigger finger pressured with the agressive pivot at the range today and every shot went straight out like a bullet.


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#11 eagles1

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:22 AM

"Slightly" in that they are both related to golf. :secret:

View Postgolfdu, on 15 March 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

Hey russc, slightly related question in relation to slicefixer's grip, are you supposed to maintain pressure in the "trigger" finger throughout the downswing as you pivot through agressively, keeping the arms in synch and the face squaring up by itself? I had an epiphany with the trigger finger pressured with the agressive pivot at the range today and every shot went straight out like a bullet.


#12 eagles1

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:23 AM

Interesting.....but still difficult to determine how far pinkie goes down.

View Postleftofseinfeld, on 15 March 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

from what I can tell, Tiger, Rory, Donald, and Jack all rest the top hands pinky flush with the bottom hands middle & index fingers, as well as the club. no space. I missed the show but hope I catch a rerun to give it a try.
Posted ImagePosted Image


Edited by eagles1, 15 March 2012 - 01:50 PM.


#13 whoathere

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:56 AM

I assumed by "base" you meant that you didn't interlock so far as to have the webbing in between the fingers touching. If that's the case, then the rory and tiger examples do show a space. I could see how interlocking as far as possible (meaning you couldn't push the left and right hands more into each other) would promote gripping with the palm and not the fingers.

#14 TravAz

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:04 PM

View Postwhoathere, on 15 March 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

I assumed by "base" you meant that you didn't interlock so far as to have the webbing in between the fingers touching. If that's the case, then the rory and tiger examples do show a space. I could see how interlocking as far as possible (meaning you couldn't push the left and right hands more into each other) would promote gripping with the palm and not the fingers.

Yea, I caught the show, and this is what Breed was trying to say (IMO). Basically he was saying the tip of the right hand pinkie should touch the webbing between the 1st/2nd finger of the left hand, and the tip of the left hand index finger should just touch the webbing between the 4th/pinkie of the right hand in order to keep the grip in the fingers not in the palms.

#15 eagles1

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:29 PM

TravAZ

Yes - that is what I thought as well.  What I find odd is that in all my research on the web no one talks about how far right pinkie should go in (down) towards the webbing of the base.  Since the grip is so fundamental, one would think this issue would be addressed by instructors.

I am going to attempt method over weekend to see how it goes.

Still curious to hear from others who interlock what they do.

View PostTravAz, on 15 March 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

View Postwhoathere, on 15 March 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

I assumed by "base" you meant that you didn't interlock so far as to have the webbing in between the fingers touching. If that's the case, then the rory and tiger examples do show a space. I could see how interlocking as far as possible (meaning you couldn't push the left and right hands more into each other) would promote gripping with the palm and not the fingers.

Yea, I caught the show, and this is what Breed was trying to say (IMO). Basically he was saying the tip of the right hand pinkie should touch the webbing between the 1st/2nd finger of the left hand, and the tip of the left hand index finger should just touch the webbing between the 4th/pinkie of the right hand in order to keep the grip in the fingers not in the palms.

Edited by eagles1, 15 March 2012 - 01:51 PM.


#16 eagles1

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:41 PM

TravAZ

What further confirms that you may be correct is that if you mimic grip in that position without holding a club and then turn your hands palms up, you'll notice the creases on the fingers of both hands align perfectly, as they do with the overlap.

Hmmm...

Edited by eagles1, 15 March 2012 - 01:51 PM.


#17 dpb5031

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:40 PM

John, jamming the hands together in an interlocking grip (as you do), with the left index finger jammed together "base to base" with the right pinkie finger, results in you gripping the club much more in the palms than what Slicefixer advocates. Michael Breed's suggestion makes sense to help you get the club a little more into the fingers.

The grip is a critical element to the Slicefixer swing. You need to get your hands in the proper orientation on three different levels: 1. in relation to the handle (grip) of the club, 2. in relation to the clubface, and 3. in relation to each other. Slicefixer believes that the best way to accomplish this is by using the Vardon grip, and he is very specific about hand placement.

For better or for worse, I believe that we have generations of golfers out there who's grips have been influenced by Jack Nicklaus, #1 because he was Jack Nicklaus and people copied him, and #2 because he stated that he believed the interlocking grip was better for players with smaller hands. That may have been his belief, but that doesn't mean that it is necessarily true. I really don't believe that interlocking has any bio-mechanical advantage for those with smaller hands. If anything, I think a ten finger grip is the most secure for those with smaller (or more importantly...weaker) hands.

You can get undersized grips for your clubs that will offset your small hands relative to a player with "normal" sized hands, so that should not be an issue anyway. Also, I have seen countless junior players, including my daughter, have success (and no problem holding the club securely) using the Vardon grip.

I think you should not pass go, not collect $200, and simply make the wholesale switch to Slicefixer's variety of the Vardon grip ASAP. I know it is going to feel extremely uncomfortable to change, but that is to be expected, and, in fact, is probably a good thing. The more radical the departure from your regular grip the better, as you will be less likely to regress to the "old" grip, which we know really needs to change if you are going to succeed with the Slicefixer swing. Listen, if you are going to drink the Slicefixer coolaid, just start double-fisting and stop trying to water it down! :drinks:

Edited by dpb5031, 15 March 2012 - 03:46 PM.


#18 spires1020

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:25 PM

View PostTravAz, on 15 March 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Yea, I caught the show, and this is what Breed was trying to say (IMO). Basically he was saying the tip of the right hand pinkie should touch the webbing between the 1st/2nd finger of the left hand, and the tip of the left hand index finger should just touch the webbing between the 4th/pinkie of the right hand in order to keep the grip in the fingers not in the palms.
I have big hands but short fingers, and this is exactly what my grip has evolved into without any outside research on my part. I've of course read 5Ls and Hogan preaches the Vardon grip, but I've tried it many times and it just doesn't work for me. When I first started playing again a year and a half ago I began with the 10 finger grip, but switched back to the interlocking grip (what I played with in my youth) quickly due to inconsistencies with the 10 finger grip. I started with the webbing of the fingers touching but that, as stated above puts the club in the palms, not the fingers. Moving the hands further apart to allow a gap between the hands allows your fingers to properly grip the club. This kind of interlocking grip is really what I would consider a hybrid, because you are getting the benefits of the Vardon grip (last 3 LH fingers and middle 2 RH fingers firmly wrapped around the club) with the comfort of not having to try and overlap you fingers.
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#19 carrera

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:58 PM

I've heard the term "intermesh" to describe the variety of interlocking grip that Breed suggested.

#20 Iggypop

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:47 PM

Nick Bradley's book - The 7 laws of the golf swing - has the Intermesh option.
It's a good book in general.


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#21 spires1020

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:52 PM

Greg Norman's grip:

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#22 sigmapete1

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:25 PM

I have been a Vardon grip guy since my dad taught me at age 10.  I am also not a big guy at 5'6".  I have been learning the "slicefixer method" through this forum, Slice's videos and DFW's videos.  The one problem I always had was too much tension (gripping too hard) as I swung, especially with my right hand.  Result...casting with the right hand.  

After a longer practice, my right pinky and ring finger was always practically shaking from being stretched out on top of my left hand fingers.  I tried smaller grips but the issue was my pinky was just not long enough to comfortably overlap my left forefinger no matter how small the grip.  

I finally tried the interlock, although still adhering to the Slice grip tenets regarding relative hand position and thus not interlocking so that the finger webbing was NOT touching.  It has been like night and day.  I can now comfortably hold the club with minimal tension.  Of course distance improved, but the biggest change was in my short game where the tension was previously a killer.  

I agree that if you can do both easily, then the overlap is probably superior, but for some people, like me, the interlock can make a world of difference.  Of course I am always open to learning a better way.

#23 Cwebb

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:07 PM

View Postsigmapete1, on 16 March 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

I have been a Vardon grip guy since my dad taught me at age 10.  I am also not a big guy at 5'6".  I have been learning the "slicefixer method" through this forum, Slice's videos and DFW's videos.  The one problem I always had was too much tension (gripping too hard) as I swung, especially with my right hand.  Result...casting with the right hand.  

After a longer practice, my right pinky and ring finger was always practically shaking from being stretched out on top of my left hand fingers.  I tried smaller grips but the issue was my pinky was just not long enough to comfortably overlap my left forefinger no matter how small the grip.  

I finally tried the interlock, although still adhering to the Slice grip tenets regarding relative hand position and thus not interlocking so that the finger webbing was NOT touching.  It has been like night and day.  I can now comfortably hold the club with minimal tension.  Of course distance improved, but the biggest change was in my short game where the tension was previously a killer.  

I agree that if you can do both easily, then the overlap is probably superior, but for some people, like me, the interlock can make a world of difference.  Of course I am always open to learning a better way.

I'm finding more and more players that have experienced what you have and the best option many times is the 10 finger grip.  If you haven't tried it yet, I would highly recommend giving it a go with the Slicefixer placement in the fingers.

#24 jackstraw20

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:41 AM

View Postspires1020, on 15 March 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

View PostTravAz, on 15 March 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Yea, I caught the show, and this is what Breed was trying to say (IMO). Basically he was saying the tip of the right hand pinkie should touch the webbing between the 1st/2nd finger of the left hand, and the tip of the left hand index finger should just touch the webbing between the 4th/pinkie of the right hand in order to keep the grip in the fingers not in the palms.
I have big hands but short fingers, and this is exactly what my grip has evolved into without any outside research on my part. I've of course read 5Ls and Hogan preaches the Vardon grip, but I've tried it many times and it just doesn't work for me. When I first started playing again a year and a half ago I began with the 10 finger grip, but switched back to the interlocking grip (what I played with in my youth) quickly due to inconsistencies with the 10 finger grip. I started with the webbing of the fingers touching but that, as stated above puts the club in the palms, not the fingers. Moving the hands further apart to allow a gap between the hands allows your fingers to properly grip the club. This kind of interlocking grip is really what I would consider a hybrid, because you are getting the benefits of the Vardon grip (last 3 LH fingers and middle 2 RH fingers firmly wrapped around the club) with the comfort of not having to try and overlap you fingers.

This sounds just like mine.  My left index and right pinky interlock at the crease between the top and middle digits on each finger.  In other words, they are barely interlocked.  It allows me to have the same pressure points (last 3 LH and middle 2 RH) while feeling like I have complete control of the club without over-gripping.  Whenever I've tried the overlap I don't feel like I really control the club at the top - it's a little too "flippy" for my liking and I end up cupping my left wrist.  

To me it's almost identical to the Vardon overlap, except the left index is raised slightly off of the grip (instead of the right pinky in the overlap).  It makes sense to me because I feel my left index is more likely to take over than my right pinky, so I'd rather take that finger (slightly) off of the grip.

#25 sigmapete1

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:06 AM

View PostCwebb, on 17 March 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

View Postsigmapete1, on 16 March 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

I have been a Vardon grip guy since my dad taught me at age 10.  I am also not a big guy at 5'6".  I have been learning the "slicefixer method" through this forum, Slice's videos and DFW's videos.  The one problem I always had was too much tension (gripping too hard) as I swung, especially with my right hand.  Result...casting with the right hand.  

After a longer practice, my right pinky and ring finger was always practically shaking from being stretched out on top of my left hand fingers.  I tried smaller grips but the issue was my pinky was just not long enough to comfortably overlap my left forefinger no matter how small the grip.  

I finally tried the interlock, although still adhering to the Slice grip tenets regarding relative hand position and thus not interlocking so that the finger webbing was NOT touching.  It has been like night and day.  I can now comfortably hold the club with minimal tension.  Of course distance improved, but the biggest change was in my short game where the tension was previously a killer.  

I agree that if you can do both easily, then the overlap is probably superior, but for some people, like me, the interlock can make a world of difference.  Of course I am always open to learning a better way.

I'm finding more and more players that have experienced what you have and the best option many times is the 10 finger grip.  If you haven't tried it yet, I would highly recommend giving it a go with the Slicefixer placement in the fingers.

Thanks for the tip.  I tried the 10 finger and aside from discomfort (which I assume is just a byproduct of unfamiliarity), the 10-finger brought back my right hand tendency to get overactive.  I'm probably not giving it a fair chance but...

On the flip side, with the switch to interlock, after lots of impact bag work this winter.  My first round of the year was a personal best for that course and I was 1 to 2 clubs longer.  How much was the grip and how much was the mirror and impact bag work all winter?  I'll never know, but it will take a lot to convince me to give up the interlock now.


#26 eagles1

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:42 AM

I could be wrong, but it looked to me yesterday that Tiger definately had his pinkie jammed all the way down so the web was flush with the web on left hand between left index/middle finger.

#27 dpb5031

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:36 AM

Posted Image

#28 eagles1

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:32 PM

+1

View Postdpb5031, on 26 March 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

Posted Image


#29 Ranger Rick

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:48 PM

Wow, still looks pretty in the palm there. Is it just a strong right hand perhaps?

#30 atlanta golfer

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:04 PM

I also use the interlock because of small hands - the overlap just never felt right to me.  Anyway, I think the key when placing hands on the club is to first set the left hand (lead hand) in the proper position based on your preference / habit, then the right hand should be placed so that the grip runs across the appropriate portion of the middle two fingers - approx. near the bottom knuckles.  Then .... with respect to how tighly the right pinkie finger meshes into the left forfinger - it is what it is, based on where you have set your hands.  In general, for most of us, it will be somewhat loose and not tightly in there.  Because - as someone else pointed out above, if it were tightly meshed, this would mean that your right hand grip is really really strong - probably too strong.


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