76 replies to this topic

[HipCheck]

TM staff are wearing these Sunday at Doral, representing the 17 yards better players can gain with the RBZ 3-Wood over last year's Burner 3-Wood.  And yes, their names are on the back.

[awil]

Why do they do this??????

[stevelegend]

The 17 yards the RBZ allegedly gives you, as they claim in the adverts.

[Skaffa77]

awil, on 09 March 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Why do they do this??????

Because people will inevitabilty ask "why"...and try to research more about.   Call it "buzz" or "publicity"...it gathers attention.   Whether or not it results in future sales is a different question.

Edited by Skaffa77, 09 March 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[Slapjax7s]

This is all BS since they will have a new driver out in 6 months saying it goes 20 yards further...

[Skaffa77]

Slapjax7s, on 09 March 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

This is all BS since they will have a new driver out in 6 months saying it goes 20 yards further...

Yeah...but they are talking about the 3 wood in this one.

[tbowles411]

Slapjax7s, on 09 March 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

This is all BS since they will have a new driver out in 6 months saying it goes 20 yards further...

First, this is not advertising for the driver.  It's the fairway wood.  Second, while you're probably right, it will sell.  And they know it.  That's why they do it.

[harleydavis]

Justin Rose driving distance:
2008 - 286.4 yds
2009 - 288.1 yds
2010 - 287.8 yds
2011 - 290.6 yds
2012 - 290.9 yds

March of 2011 TMAG released a video stating he picked up 26 yards with a 3D tuning of the R11
Feb 2012 TMAG released a video stating he picked up 23 yards with a R11s tuning.

The stats do not support these claims.

That being said, I absolutely love my R11 and will continue to be a TMAG fan-boy. I just dont expect 20+ yards everytime I buy a new stick.

Edited by harleydavis, 09 March 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[bulldurham]

BARF

[ryan_k]

Didn't 17 balls go in the water on 18 yesterday? Now that's funny...

[TheMoneyShot]

Love it!  TM is a marketing genius.

[SHIVAN]

harleydavis, on 09 March 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

March of 2011 TMAG released a video stating he picked up 26 yards with a 3D tuning of the R11
Feb 2012 TMAG released a video stating he picked up 23 yards with and R11s tuning.

The stats do not support these claims.

Only when people are completely ignorant on what the claims are based...

Hand a pro a box stock R11, with a Blur 65 X in it.  Have him hit it 15 times.  Avg distance = X.

Adjust the R11 with an upgraded shaft, some more weight in the toe, open it 1*, and set the ASP to C to square it up and have them hit it 15 times.  Average distance = Y.

Y-X = 23yds.

What is so hard to understand???  They are selling an adjustable driver.  They are marketing its gains by using the adjustments to your benefit.  They are marketing it using their staff.  They've not ever said in an absolute statement that the R11s is 23 yards longer than any tour players custom fit and assembled and tested TOUR ISSUED driver.

They know almost everyone was playing a COTS driver, with a shaft that probably was NOT the exact right spec, a face angle that could be better, etc, etc.

Edited by SHIVAN, 09 March 2012 - 10:55 AM.

[Bogeyshai]

HipCheck, on 09 March 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

TM staff are wearing these Sunday at Doral, representing the 17 yards better players can gain with the RBZ 3-Wood over last year's Burner 3-Wood.  And yes, their names are on the back.

_K4S9006_MASTER-SHOT_17.jpg

We have a opportunity as WRX'ers, to verify this.  Go out and demo this 3 wood, we can prove if this is false or true.  If it does go 17 yards more, and without loss of control, well I'll consider buying it.  (I don't think I'm classified as a better player, so I would be more than happy with 10 yards more)
If it's bogus, shame on Taylormade.

Not totally sure what it means by "better players"???   Was this a reference to ball speed, or club head speed?

[scratchswinger]

Wagner needs to loose the stash. He looks like a human version of Mario.

Do you guys think all the other OEM's on tour see them doing this stuff and just talk trash behind their backs?

Edited by scratchswinger, 09 March 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[ryan_k]

TMAG can do whatever the hell they please, and I will support them as long as they pump out quality equipment. Put rainbows on my R11s, I'd still game it in a heartbeat.

[Skaffa77]

Bogeyshai, on 09 March 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

HipCheck, on 09 March 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

TM staff are wearing these Sunday at Doral, representing the 17 yards better players can gain with the RBZ 3-Wood over last year's Burner 3-Wood.  And yes, their names are on the back.

_K4S9006_MASTER-SHOT_17.jpg

We have a opportunity as WRX'ers, to verify this.  Go out and demo this 3 wood, we can prove if this is false or true.  If it does go 17 yards more, and without loss of control, well I'll consider buying it.  (I don't think I'm classified as a better player, so I would be more than happy with 10 yards more)
If it's bogus, shame on Taylormade.

Not totally sure what it means by "better players"???   Was this a reference to ball speed, or club head speed?

ABSOLUTELY!   I will tell you that I've hit the 3 wood and personally, it did appear to give me gains, but I couldn't measure it on the range I was hitting at.

I have some friends who are "better" players and they were shocked by how good the results were...

[Skaffa77]

scratchswinger, on 09 March 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Wagner needs to loose the stash. He looks like a human version of Mario.

Do you guys think all the other OEM's on tour see them doing this stuff and just talk trash behind their backs?

Agreed.   We need to get the Super Mario Brothers music rolling!

Other OEMs talking trash??   It wouldn't surprise me.   IMO, TM has a target on their back because they are big and also outspoken with their products/advertising.

[SHIVAN]

Bogeyshai, on 09 March 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Not totally sure what it means by "better players"???   Was this a reference to ball speed, or club head speed?

A player able to generate 150mph ball speed.  Assuming a "perfect" smash of 1.5, that would require a 100mph swing with a 3W.

[PMAC]

If other companies are talking behind TM's back it is because of jealousy. Nike/Cally/Adams/Ping/Titleist would love the sales that TM does.  But overall these companies are still chasing TM in what are looking to do, make $$$$$. Simply, TM sells more. And there advertising is the best.

[harleydavis]

SHIVAN, on 09 March 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

harleydavis, on 09 March 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

March of 2011 TMAG released a video stating he picked up 26 yards with a 3D tuning of the R11
Feb 2012 TMAG released a video stating he picked up 23 yards with and R11s tuning.

The stats do not support these claims.

Only when people are completely ignorant on what the claims are based...

Hand a pro a box stock R11, with a Blur 65 X in it.  Have him hit it 15 times.  Avg distance = X.

Adjust the R11 with an upgraded shaft, some more weight in the toe, open it 1*, and set the ASP to C to square it up and have them hit it 15 times.  Average distance = Y.

Y-X = 23yds.

What is so hard to understand???  They are selling an adjustable driver.  They are marketing its gains by using the adjustments to your benefit.  They are marketing it using their staff.  They've not ever said in an absolute statement that the R11s is 23 yards longer than any tour players custom fit and assembled and tested TOUR ISSUED driver.

They know almost everyone was playing a COTS driver, with a shaft that probably was NOT the exact right spec, a face angle that could be better, etc, etc.

Simmer down. I obviously understand the everything you are saying.

But if you look at this particular data (I have also included back to 2003 for this) his driving distances have remained within +/- 1.46 standard deviations of his average distance for the years in questions. Statistically this variation is an acceptable normal range for something as "random" as driving distance stats.

Conclusion*:
There have been no major technological advances in driver technology that have shown any major gains in driving distance since 2003.

*This conclusion is exclusively based on average driving distances for each year. No other factors were considered.

[Jamboy72]

Love it...hate it...we're all here talking about it and giving TM some of the exposure they're going after...seems to be working to me!  I don't have any numbers in front of me to offer, but I sure there are many OEM's who would gladly take TM's market share in the woods category!

[jabrch]

Bogeyshai, on 09 March 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

HipCheck, on 09 March 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

TM staff are wearing these Sunday at Doral, representing the 17 yards better players can gain with the RBZ 3-Wood over last year's Burner 3-Wood.  And yes, their names are on the back.

_K4S9006_MASTER-SHOT_17.jpg

We have a opportunity as WRX'ers, to verify this.  Go out and demo this 3 wood, we can prove if this is false or true.  If it does go 17 yards more, and without loss of control, well I'll consider buying it.  (I don't think I'm classified as a better player, so I would be more than happy with 10 yards more)
If it's bogus, shame on Taylormade.

Not totally sure what it means by "better players"???   Was this a reference to ball speed, or club head speed?

They have done this...they have shown it...  I did the challenge at their launch event - and it was 13 yards longer than my F11 Ti 3+ wood and 18 yards longer than my old TM Burner 3W.  More importantly, it was straighter, and I had fewer shots that I'd categorize as "misses".  for me - it was a no brainer to buy it.  That said - it isn't for everyone.  If you have a 3W that is already dialed in and optimized for you, you may not gain anything...you may lose...  But remember - TM is marketing to MILLIONS of golfers.  They are not marketing to the limited few who have spent tons of time and money dialing in their set, and getting premium shafts on their tour issue heads...

[Abomber22]

those shirts look gross!!... but great marketing!! every ho will want to get their hands on those shirts.  hahaha

[youngwaldo]

I love it.  Have a contest for one so I can be the only one and finally win something on here.  YEAH.

Wk

Edited by youngwaldo, 09 March 2012 - 11:42 AM.

[Skaffa77]

harleydavis, on 09 March 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

SHIVAN, on 09 March 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

harleydavis, on 09 March 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

March of 2011 TMAG released a video stating he picked up 26 yards with a 3D tuning of the R11
Feb 2012 TMAG released a video stating he picked up 23 yards with and R11s tuning.

The stats do not support these claims.

Only when people are completely ignorant on what the claims are based...

Hand a pro a box stock R11, with a Blur 65 X in it.  Have him hit it 15 times.  Avg distance = X.

Adjust the R11 with an upgraded shaft, some more weight in the toe, open it 1*, and set the ASP to C to square it up and have them hit it 15 times.  Average distance = Y.

Y-X = 23yds.

What is so hard to understand???  They are selling an adjustable driver.  They are marketing its gains by using the adjustments to your benefit.  They are marketing it using their staff.  They've not ever said in an absolute statement that the R11s is 23 yards longer than any tour players custom fit and assembled and tested TOUR ISSUED driver.

They know almost everyone was playing a COTS driver, with a shaft that probably was NOT the exact right spec, a face angle that could be better, etc, etc.

Simmer down. I obviously understand the everything you are saying.

But if you look at this particular data (I have also included back to 2003 for this) his driving distances have remained within +/- 1.46 standard deviations of his average distance for the years in questions. Statistically this variation is an acceptable normal range for something as "random" as driving distance stats.

Conclusion*:
There have been no major technological advances in driver technology that have shown any major gains in driving distance since 2003.

*This conclusion is exclusively based on average driving distances for each year. No other factors were considered.

I remember someone was using average driving distance stat to say that pros were actually hitting shorter year over year since the tour average was about the same or less.   If I recall, the average driving stat includes other clubs aside from the driver.   May not be the best overall stat to use in making a point about advances in driver technology.

Just saying...

Edited by Skaffa77, 09 March 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[SHIVAN]

harleydavis, on 09 March 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Simmer down. I obviously understand the everything you are saying.

But if you look at this particular data (I have also included back to 2003 for this) his driving distances have remained...

First, I am perfectly chill, thanks.

Second, if you do understand, you are being obtuse on purpose, as you are still talking his tour driving stats versus what the commercials are showing you***.

***Also known as "Completely different comparisons".




Further, tour driving stats include what variables for which you are not accounting??  DId he hit 3W on the "driving hole(s)" of record?  3i?  Hybrid?  How many times did he do that?  Are the stats from 2009, 2010, 2011 on the same holes in the same conditions, with the same hazards in play, same wind, same altitude, was he chasing a lead, protecting a lead, etc?

What you would need, to make the comparison you are making, is driver only shots stroked with full intent to hit the ball as far as possible, on the course in a tourney.  I know there are holes where I hit a "controlled" driver shot, which is something less than 100%.  If I do it, so do the pros.  Bubba, Woodland, DJ, Quiros, and some others can hit a driver 350yds at sea level, yet their tour driving stats are a little over 300yds every year.  That is what's known as "a clue".

On the range, what harm is there in letting it rip?  Certainly what harm is there in a promo to give a 100% swing with a neutral R11s, and then having it tuned to match your game ready R11s, and taking a 100% swing?  They are selling the distance that can be gained from a tuned fit of their product.  They are not selling you raw distance gain over all comers.  They are not selling you on average tour driving distances gains or losses on tour over a 20 event season, in varying conditions.

It's pretty simple.  And.....still chill.  Thanks.

[BlkNGld]

topekareal, on 09 March 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Love it...hate it...we're all here talking about it and giving TM some of the exposure they're going after...seems to be working to me!  I don't have any numbers in front of me to offer, but I sure there are many OEM's who would gladly take TM's market share in the woods category!

Exactly!  First question I has was 'why?'.  When I found out why, I was kinda 'oh, that's why'.

I'm not big on dressing your entire tour staff up like they're on one team - seems a little NASCAR to me, but it will get attention.  Sot on the 'made you look' factor, TM wins, same as Cally with the Vegas ads.

Here's the part about it that's interesting to me.  Even though I don't like TM putting their staff out there like golf is a team sport, maybe that's the way things are going to go.  You can see support for that here, when a player joins the staff of a particular manufacturer, their fanboys come out and declare it great and their haters pooh pooh it.

[falken19150]

Anyway to get the hats?  My son wants one.  (Trust me, I am against the "machine" and think the whole idea is ridiculous but want to get one for my son)

[carlt9817]

WORST.PIC.EVER!

[scratchswinger]

Those shirts remind me of the Tavistock Cup shirts