94 replies to this topic

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

I can sit there and watch my Bushnell Neo for 10 minutes and it will change "distance" by five yards or more without actually moving an inch. There's no way that readings of 138, 137, 139, 134, 136, 133 one right after another are all correct to within "0 to 2 maybe 3" yards.

And my old 1st-generation SkyCaddie was worse than that, it would occasionally just shift distances by 50 or 100 yards then eventually shift back.

As convenient as my Neo is when I'm just playing quickly, hitting to the middle of every green and not trying to throw wedge shots right up next to the hole it is not really suitable if you want to know for absolute certain how far you need to hit a wedge or short iron when the pin is near an edge or corner of the green.

After yesterday, when my GPS was dead certain it was 69-70 yards to the back of the ninth green and I airmailed it, I'm putting the laser back in the bag today. I waited a good two or three minutes and the GPS said it was either 69 or 70 to the back even though it looked more like 50-60 to me. Finally made a good 70-yard swing with a sand wedge and went over the green.

I paced it off...the flag was 55 yards and the back edge of the green was 58 yards. Just like it looked to my eyeball. Cost me a full stroke to chip the ball back past the hole from the rough.

Edited by Fourmyle of Ceres, 21 October 2012 - 06:14 AM.

[Andy L]

Fourmyle of Ceres, on 21 October 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

I can sit there and watch my Bushnell Neo for 10 minutes and it will change "distance" by five yards or more without actually moving an inch. There's no way that readings of 138, 137, 139, 134, 136, 133 one right after another are all correct to within "0 to 2 maybe 3" yards.

And my old 1st-generation SkyCaddie was worse than that, it would occasionally just shift distances by 50 or 100 yards then eventually shift back.

As convenient as my Neo is when I'm just playing quickly, hitting to the middle of every green and not trying to throw wedge shots right up next to the hole it is not really suitable if you want to know for absolute certain how far you need to hit a wedge or short iron when the pin is near an edge or corner of the green.

After yesterday, when my GPS was dead certain it was 69-70 yards to the back of the ninth green and I airmailed it, I'm putting the laser back in the bag today. I waited a good two or three minutes and the GPS said it was either 69 or 70 to the back even though it looked more like 50-60 to me. Finally made a good 70-yard swing with a sand wedge and went over the green.

I paced it off...the flag was 55 yards and the back edge of the green was 58 yards. Just like it looked to my eyeball. Cost me a full stroke to chip the ball back past the hole from the rough.

Maybe the neo isn't that good? I don't know. Also not sure why you need to wait for it?

100's of times I have walked up to yardage markers and glanced at my gps upon arrival and the two agreed within a couple yards. I can estimate pin distance on my gps typically within 3 yards of my partners laser measurement.

3 yards is good enough and frankly even 5 is good enough for 99% of golfers.

But if distance to pin is the most important measurement, I agree the laser is the best.  But it's also not infallible.  One day my laser friend stood on the tee box of a par 3 and proclaimed something that was like 30 yards off from the marker on the tee box and my GPS.  So he measured again and got a more reasonable number.  I've also tried using the laser to nail the front edge of a green or a bunker lip, only to see that number dance around by 5 yards or more.

Edited by Andy L, 21 October 2012 - 07:07 AM.

[sharkhark]

Andy L, on 20 October 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

sharkhark, on 17 October 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

So... I got to ask? (I am a golf buddy gps fan) how do you guys with laser measure stuff you can't see well... Or not at all.
Let's say a pond up ahead that is blind... Or maybe a bunker you can only see part of.
When I use my gps I have layup and carry yardages of all hazards.
I myself have played with people using laser that hit good shots only to head over a knoll and hang their heads seeing they went into a hazard. Often complaining out loud that they didn't know the hazard was there... Or if they even have played before they "guessed" at missing it.

I don't understand how laser users get around these limitations. My gps takes 1 minute to start up, gives me instantaneous info at a glance to flag, front, middle, back, hazards etc etc.
Mine is preloaded with every course virtually there is in the world. My battery lasts about 3 rounds and I don't pay annual fees.

Can someone comment on how u get around these blind shots?
If your answer is... Well u have to have played the course allot.... Well that doesn't work.

Both have their advantages with different types of measurement.  I use GPS and my partner has a laser.  We frequently share information because the laser is best for exact distance to the pin and the GPS is better for alerting you to something you might not be able to see, as well as front, center, back and a lot of other information at a glance.  In addition to pin distance, we use the laser to measure a specific object that you wouldn't get on a GPS-- like a specific tree on the outside of a dogleg shot that I'm using as a target and want to make sure I don't hit the ball through the fairway.  Sure I should be able to figure this out on the GPS, but the laser is usually easier for when it comes to a physical target.

As far as estimating pin distance on the GPS vs exact measurement with the laser, I can almost always estimate pin distance via the GPS to less than 2-3 yards difference of the laser, provided the course either uses colored flags or pin indicator for front, center, back pin.

very good points. I admit a specific yardage for a pin being more exact with laser would be great. But my experience has been almost no courses back in ontario where icame from nor out east in nova Scotia have reflectors. After using friends lasers and not bring sure if I caught the flag or a pile of mud behind the green.... I decided my shaky hands were better suited to gps.

But very good points by you on pros cons.

Edited by sharkhark, 22 October 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[sharkhark]

Fourmyle of Ceres, on 21 October 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

I can sit there and watch my Bushnell Neo for 10 minutes and it will change "distance" by five yards or more without actually moving an inch. There's no way that readings of 138, 137, 139, 134, 136, 133 one right after another are all correct to within "0 to 2 maybe 3" yards.

And my old 1st-generation SkyCaddie was worse than that, it would occasionally just shift distances by 50 or 100 yards then eventually shift back.

As convenient as my Neo is when I'm just playing quickly, hitting to the middle of every green and not trying to throw wedge shots right up next to the hole it is not really suitable if you want to know for absolute certain how far you need to hit a wedge or short iron when the pin is near an edge or corner of the green.

After yesterday, when my GPS was dead certain it was 69-70 yards to the back of the ninth green and I airmailed it, I'm putting the laser back in the bag today. I waited a good two or three minutes and the GPS said it was either 69 or 70 to the back even though it looked more like 50-60 to me. Finally made a good 70-yard swing with a sand wedge and went over the green.

I paced it off...the flag was 55 yards and the back edge of the green was 58 yards. Just like it looked to my eyeball. Cost me a full stroke to chip the ball back past the hole from the rough.

I still own a neo although it's sitting in my desk drawer replaced by an excellent golf buddy world.... The neo never did what u describe. Maybe if u walked fast to a spot and stopped it took a second to settle on a yardage... But what you describe? No way.
Faulty unit or I don't know what?
Re your bad skycaddie.... Well that's skycaddie for you.
I am very happy.

[Jens0n]

Sky caddie sg5 (labrador version - the dog gave it a chew buit it still works fine) and a newly purchsed bushnell Z6.

I still keep the SG5 hanging from the bag but from 150 and in I'll work with the Z6 every time. For me having a qualified exact yardage in my head to hit to just feels better than working from GPS reading.

Playing on unfamiliar courses I still like the SG5 presentation of hazards from the tee.

Will keep SG5 till subscription expires and then suspect it'll be history.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

The Neo will settle in about 20 seconds onto a yardage that usually agrees with sprinkler head, etc. Then during the time it takes me pull a club, hit a shot, replace the club and look at the Neo again before I start walking it will often have moved by several yards. A couple times I've seen it move again, usually back to something like the original (correct) yardage. Or sometimes not.

So on Saturday when it was telling me 70 yards on a shot I thought was more like 55-60 I just stood there a while waiting to see if it would change. Nope, just alternated between 69 and 70 for as long as I cared to wait so I pulled the club and hit.

I have two "modes" of playing golf. If I'm by myself and the course is wide open in front of me I hardly even stop walking. I pull a club before arriving at the ball, take one quick waggle as I set my feet and then swing away. At my home course it takes about 2:20 to play a very relaxing round. No pulling the flag before putting, heck no reading putts other than a quick look at the line while settling over the ball. And I do have the Neo running but basically just give it a quick glance from time to time. In that mode the Neo makes center-of-green yardages easy and just sits there clipped to my Speed Cart giving me all the (approximate or not) info I need.

OTOH, when I played with people or have groups ahead of me I'm going to be out there 3-1/2 hours anyway. So I actually grind it out and do my best to shoot a good score on every hole. Those rounds I am switching back to the laser. Because I don't play to the center of the green but rather try to hit a certain spot, maybe center of the green on long shots but definitely right at the flag inside 130-140 yards. That's not really what I bought the Neo for and IMO no GPS is as good as a to-the-flag laser as long as you have time and patience to actually shoot the approach yardages.

[Wayneo]

Fourmyle of Ceres, on 21 October 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

I can sit there and watch my Bushnell Neo for 10 minutes and it will change "distance" by five yards or more without actually moving an inch. There's no way that readings of 138, 137, 139, 134, 136, 133 one right after another are all correct to within "0 to 2 maybe 3" yards.

Fourmyle, there are a few options you can set on your unit.

Page 20 of your manual.
WAAS - ON.

STABILIZER: Allows you to select the GPS position refresh mode. With the Stabilizer set to “ON”, the neo+ will not refresh the GPS distance readings when the unit is not in motion (when you are not walking). This can be useful if you experience fluctuating distance readings when you remain stationary. The default setting is “ON”.

Fourmyle of Ceres, on 21 October 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

I paced it off...the flag was 55 yards and the back edge of the green was 58 yards. Just like it looked to my eyeball.

Next time, walk to the back of the green, and look at the Neo. If it's not pretty close to 1-3 yards, stand where you'd consider the back, and remap the point. It takes less than 10 seconds in total to do that. I used to remap points all the time while others in my group were putting, or on my way to look at a putt from a different angle.

[DaveLeeNC]

Andy L, on 21 October 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

theslflash689, on 21 October 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

My rangefinder has become as easy to use as my GPS. I just feel that + or - 5 yards on a gps is just too much variation. That's half a club!!!

+/- 5 yards is no way consistent with my gps experience. 0 to 2 maybe 3 yards within course markers is normal.

See http://www.golfwrx.c...acy-experiment/

Based on my experiments (note that I have done this on two separate occasions) the best possible accuracy of my Neo is 4-5 yards. And this would be with PERFECT mappings (yeah, right). I'm not saying that 4-5 yards isn't acceptable, but you always wonder about mappings (I know a couple that are 20+ yards off), readings are worse under tree canopies, etc.

dave

[TNReb]

I had a SkyCaddie, and I switched to Leupold rangefinder.  I like my rangefinder a lot, but I'm thinking of going back to the GPS.  The thing I liked most about the GPS was the ability to mark my yardages off and check them.  I could tell that I hit that 5 wood exactly 220 instead of guesstimating.  

I'm actually tossing around the idea of buying another SkyCaddie (I got rid of my old one).  In reality, I probably don't need it.  I play the same course 90% of the time and there isn't much I don't already know about it.

Edited by TNReb, 29 October 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Mmozza]

Got rid of my Sky Caddie and bought a Bushnell V2 laser. It's much better, I want to know the flag not the front or back. Plus I was fed up with charging and downloading courses

[golfjuice]

once you get the hang of it, nothing compares to laser. I find GPS to be spotty in general. Gotta stick with old faithful. Well, I use a hybrid but rarely use gps.

[stage1350]

I can't even think of the last time I charged my GPS.  I live on the laser.

[the.landshark]

^^^ +1 ...about a year and a half into my three year (pre-paid) SkyCaddie "contract", I took a trip to Bandon Dunes. For a variety of reasons, GPS is useless there, not the least of which is 20,000 square foot greens on Old MacDonald (front, middle, back becomes pointless)... so I purchased a laser rangefinder for the trip. Loved it.

When I returned, I carried both for a little while, always keeping the GPS attached to the bag for quick reference. I noticed that I'd utilize the SkyCaddie information less and less as time went on. Soon after, I stopped carrying GPS all together.

I got an e-mail reminder from SkyGolf a few weeks ago, asking me to renew... however that's simply not gonna happen. Not because the Sky Caddie is a bad product (perhaps it's even best in class), but because a laser rangefinder is just that much better (at least for my game, YMMV).

I can think of 2 times (total) in the last year or so, where a GPS could've helped me on a blind shot while playing an unfamiliar course, over a laser rangefinder. 2 times. Playing a lot of golf, all over North America.

100% confidence in the laser 100% of the time.

Edited by the.landshark, 02 November 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[bosoxfan]

I have a Bushnell with Pin Seeker but not slope, and I love it.  I rarely have problems shooting whatever I need to shoot and it is very accurate, about the only time it is difficult is if it is extemely windy, I mean like blow you over windy, and then I just lean on the cart to steady and shoot away.  I wouldn't want anything different, love the range finder.
KH

[Rick]

So I originally had a laser. Old Nikon that worked great. It was destroyed when it bounced out of a cart down in myrtle. Went to. GPS and found I just didn't like several things; software downloads, battery life, visibility (glasses not on), variable distance as not exactly sure of pin location.  Back to a laser I went. Got a leupold for several reasons. Light, great optics, quick, choice of crosshairs.

But I have to ask, how do you guys with GPS check out the player in the other fairway   or maybe a deer, or eagle.

[Hateto3Putt]

Rick, on 03 November 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

But I have to ask, how do you guys with GPS check out the player in the other fairway   or maybe a deer, or eagle.

Or cart girl?

True story: We were playing in Las Vegas when across the canyon we sight a group of people. I zoom in with my Bushnell and lo and behold, they're filming an "adult movie" in the desert!

[Rick]

Hateto3Putt, on 03 November 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

Rick, on 03 November 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

But I have to ask, how do you guys with GPS check out the player in the other fairway   or maybe a deer, or eagle.

Or cart girl?

True story: We were playing in Las Vegas when across the canyon we sight a group of people. I zoom in with my Bushnell and lo and behold, they're filming an "adult movie" in the desert!

Well yea, guess I should have put in "player"

[northgolf]

I've been using a uPro for about 4 years.  I like it, but I was finding it difficult to correctly guestimate the pin depth on some greens.  Today, my wife gave me the callaway Razr laser and I used it on the course.  I like it, but I found myself missing the front back distances.  When the pin was in the middle, I was fine, but when front and back I want to know how much room I have between the pin and the edge.  I'll probably find myself using the GPS a couple times a round and the laser predominantly.  I have to say, the laser is a bit quicker to use.

[txeconomist]

I prefer gps over laser.  Id rather know that im 150 middle and 162 back edge....(and toggle to where I believe the pin to be say 158) than know the pin is 159. To me the 159 number is not that relevant as I have no intention of hitting the ball that far as I am just trying to hit it about 155 and give myself a look at birdie and take bogie out of play. For things like severe two tiered greens and tough pins I really like knowing middle and front or back...I find the accuracy to be fine and great for courses I've never played.

The gps is a pain in the A to keep charged and download courses though. I've  thought about getting a laser just for practice.  Both have their merits.

[matchavez]

It's funny that most say one-over-another here. My experience is with a Bushnell and Golfshot/iOS. Frankly, I don't know how you guys eschew one for the other.

I use Golfshot to keep score and track stats. When I play new courses, I want to see the overhead first. Crinkly, wood-edged signs with blue-painted lakes isn't adequate. I get my fairway distance using Golfshot -- I don't want that dogleg to eat my ball at 255, so I know my "layup" or whatever so I'm not hitting blind.

My second (and third) shot are laser-ific. On second shot, or first on a par-3, I want the precise distance. When I am trying to hit anything from 20-200, I don't want to guess. That's a laser distance for me, no question.

Golfshot is $30, and worth twice that. I could play a round without a laser if I had to. Of course, there is the ridiculousness that Golfshot isn't approved, but whatever.

Without my phone, I will be fine. I just have to pick up a better course map at the pro shop.

Of course, it's all academic if you're waiting on me, which you aren't. Both tools are very useful during a round. Both have their place depending on the situation. Both *should* speed play, and I don't use a pencil/paper card any longer. If you're thinking about GPS, and you should, don't go any further than your phone. If you need to "stay legal" for tournament play, you aren't reading this, and you already are stone-cold set on a laser.

It's Ginger or Mary Anne on a deserted island. The correct answer is "both".

[DrInhale]

I got rid of my laser rangefinder because it didn't give me enough information.  The exact distance to the pin is nice but I rarely hit exact distances to anything even with my wedges.  It was more important to knowing the distances to front, middle, and back for safe landing areas and carry distances.  Once I am on the green its is about the flat stick.  Plus, I like knowing the distances to the hazards and lay ups.  Only the tour pros, i.e. Johnny Miller, will need exact distances.

For people who use Golfshot, great program but got tired of it draining my cell phone battery to 5%.  Plus, it takes 20 secs to arrive at distance and it is not always correct so I stopped using it.  However, it has a great electronic score card to track my stats.

Edited by DrInhale, 16 December 2012 - 09:29 PM.

[Crossle77]

Recently played in a tournament that allowed measuring devices (non slope) and occasionally found the markers in the fairway and distances on my sgx differing by as much a 10 yards to center of green. Using the event supplied pin placement sheet introduced self inflicted math errors into the distance calculating process. Playing partners with laser rangefinders had no such problems, fast results and no math.

On the hunt for a laser rangefinder and leaning towards the leupold gx3i.

[cmossotti]

1st post here great forum and great information.

Ive used a skycaddie 3.5 goin on 3 years. I cant stand the bad battery life, yearly subscription, and having to download courses. Ive been in many situations where I would meet up with someone to golf spur of the moment type of thing on a random course and not have the course on the skycaddie. So im looking for a new gps or maybe a laser. Ive read most ,if not all of this thread and it seems hands down most of you like the laser. My question for you guys is how do you deal with doglegs where say your view is blocked from the green by trees  or whatever else? Im also hesitant by the fact I play my golf in upstate NY where most of the courses are hilly with multiple blind tee shots and or elevated greens. Im used to the skycaddie giving me front middle back which I find extremly useful for the reasons other have said. One example I can think of where a laser would almost be useless to me is hitting into an elevated green with say 120 left and the pin is up front only a few paces off the front very tough to get close especially with  fast , hard greens ( typical conditions where I play). With a gps I could get middle yardage and maybe saw take a few yds off that and that would be a safe landing area, also you could look and the back yardage and have a number in your head you cannot exceed,obviously impossible to do with a laser. So I guess my question is do you guys with lasers just not really run into these types of things  or do these situations just not bother you?  BTW Im leaning towards a garmin G5 at this point. but would really like to hear your thoughts. Thanks

[DaveLeeNC]

Regarding lasers and blind dogleg questions, I mostly rely on my laser and cannot think of any case where I want to hit over or around a dogleg, but can't get a laser yardage. I can imagine that, but it doesn't happen in my world (which is typically 12 courses in our area). I can think of a couple of cases where I might have to walk 10 or 20 yards out of my way to get a sightline (certainly no worse than hunting up a sprinkler head).

On elevated green and front pins, typically in our area pins are 'color coded' (front/middle/back). So you shoot the pin and make your mental adjustments per the pin color. Particularly to elevated greens it is pretty easy to scan 'up the green' to where you suddenly pick up the background (sudden/big jump in yardage) if you care about that.

I also own a GPS (Neo) and find it handy for 200+ yard ranges on courses that don't have reflectors. And I do have maybe 4 or 5 blind layup points that I put in myself and they are handy on occasion. I wouldn't blink twice over losing my GPS but would really miss my laser.

dave

Edited by DaveLeeNC, 19 December 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[cmossotti]

thanks for the reply you make some good points. Im also used to color coded pins where I play so I understand what your saying. We have some decent courses up here in Syracuse NY , but have never noticed any reflectors on any of the courses I play and I like to play a ton of different ones. Do you think not having reflectors on pins is a big deal?

[DaveLeeNC]

cmossotti, on 19 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

thanks for the reply you make some good points. Im also used to color coded pins where I play so I understand what your saying. We have some decent courses up here in Syracuse NY , but have never noticed any reflectors on any of the courses I play and I like to play a ton of different ones. Do you think not having reflectors on pins is a big deal?

If you have one of the better laser devices, not having reflectors is not a big deal. My device is a 6 year old Nikon and yardage to pins without reflectors from 180+ yards is somewhat difficult.

dave

ps. 'Reflectors' are not obvious. They are just little 2 inch long caps that aren't much bigger round than the flagstick.

[Hateto3Putt]

DaveLeeNC, on 19 December 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

ps. 'Reflectors' are not obvious. They are just little 2 inch long caps that aren't much bigger round than the flagstick.

yup.



The other style is built into the pin itself.

[dporto]

I didn't participate the poll because it's so general as to be useless (as are most polls). I use a Bushnell V2 but do miss my GPS sometimes...just sayin'

[Pepperturbo]

I like the convenience and benefits of both Bushnell Pro 1600 laser and SG5.

[Pepperturbo]

cmossotti, on 19 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

thanks for the reply you make some good points. Im also used to color coded pins where I play so I understand what your saying. We have some decent courses up here in Syracuse NY , but have never noticed any reflectors on any of the courses I play and I like to play a ton of different ones. Do you think not having reflectors on pins is a big deal?

Only to people that have to contend with shaky hands.  Otherwise, holding the laser still enough to take readings off stable objects is not an issue.