162 replies to this topic

[Swisstrader98]

Oh, forgot to mention...some of these apple apps are now free! Also love the fact that I can track all kinds of stats to see where I need most help and have an automated scorecard that I can view anytime I want to review a round on Golshots website. Unsure if the hand held GPS device makers have that capability.

[TM_HOYER]

Swisstrader98, on 23 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Oh, forgot to mention...some of these apple apps are now free! Also love the fact that I can track all kinds of stats to see where I need most help and have an automated scorecard that I can view anytime I want to review a round on Golshots website. Unsure if the hand held GPS device makers have that capability.

All of which has been available to users of Skycaddie, SGMobile, and SGClub for over two years.

[Swisstrader98]

TM_HOYER, on 23 April 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

Swisstrader98, on 23 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Oh, forgot to mention...some of these apple apps are now free! Also love the fact that I can track all kinds of stats to see where I need most help and have an automated scorecard that I can view anytime I want to review a round on Golshots website. Unsure if the hand held GPS device makers have that capability.

All of which has been available to users of Skycaddie, SGMobile, and SGClub for over two years.

Oh, skycaddie and SGMobile are free?? Please send one to me. Also would like to get free yearly subscription package.

[jaggy]

Swisstrader98, on 23 April 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Oh, skycaddie and SGMobile are free?? Please send one to me. Also would like to get free yearly subscription package.

In this case, in my opinion, you get what you pay for.

[Swisstrader98]

jaggy, on 23 April 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Swisstrader98, on 23 April 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Oh, skycaddie and SGMobile are free?? Please send one to me. Also would like to get free yearly subscription package.

In this case, in my opinion, you get what you pay for.

Kinda hard for me to personally cost justify the purchase of one of these handheld GPS devices at $200 or more plus yearly fees vs an app that does basically the same thing at 1/10th the price. Just not sure I get what the value add here is...basically there is none which is why one of the manufacturers of these devices just announced they're getting out of the hardware business and focusing on software...way of the future,

I get a kick out of ppl who carry around multiple devices to do different things when it's all available on your iPhone!

Edited by Swisstrader98, 23 April 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[Andy L]

Swisstrader98, on 23 April 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

jaggy, on 23 April 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Swisstrader98, on 23 April 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Oh, skycaddie and SGMobile are free?? Please send one to me. Also would like to get free yearly subscription package.

In this case, in my opinion, you get what you pay for.

Kinda hard for me to personally cost justify the purchase of one of these handheld GPS devices at $200 or more plus yearly fees vs an app that does basically the same thing at 1/10th the price. Just not sure I get what the value add here is...basically there is none which is why one of the manufacturers of these devices just announced they're getting out of the hardware business and focusing on software...way of the future,

I get a kick out of ppl who carry around multiple devices to do different things when it's all available on your iPhone!

Dude, get a hold of yourself.  Accept the fact that people like different things.  I don't get the value in the whole skycaddie membership thing either but some people do.  Some of the biggest GPS makers have no annual fee.  Then of course even if you ignore the whole rules thing which is illogical to me also, you can't debate that a dedicated device offers advantages that a MFD does not. For example most golf GPS screens are far better suited for outdoor use in bright light than a smartphone screen.  Killing your phone battery because you need your screen blazing for 4 hours is a non issue on a dedicated GPS.  Also I don't want to interact and push buttons on my GPS while I play--- a dedicated golf GPS is better suited for that.  Also I don't want my GPS screen interrupted by a text or phone call--- that won't happen on a dedicated device.  

I'm not really keen on having my phone out banging around on the course where there is more opportunity to drop and damage it.  If I do have it out, it usually stays on my belt so I can listen to music. I think trying to listen to Pandora, run the GPS and burn the display as much as needed would be a battery killer and it would not make it through a round.

Will I use a smartphone GPS app?  If I forgot my GPS or it died then I would until I found an alternative that I wanted to invest in.  There are pros/cons to both.

[Swisstrader98]

Andy L, on 23 April 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Dude, get a hold of yourself.  Accept the fact that people like different things.  I don't get the value in the whole skycaddie membership thing either but some people do.  Some of the biggest GPS makers have no annual fee.  Then of course even if you ignore the whole rules thing which is illogical to me also, you can't debate that a dedicated device offers advantages that a MFD does not. For example most golf GPS screens are far better suited for outdoor use in bright light than a smartphone screen.  Killing your phone battery because you need your screen blazing for 4 hours is a non issue on a dedicated GPS.  Also I don't want to interact and push buttons on my GPS while I play--- a dedicated golf GPS is better suited for that.  Also I don't want my GPS screen interrupted by a text or phone call--- that won't happen on a dedicated device.  I'm not really keen on having my phone out banging around on the course where there is more opportunity to drop and damage it.  If I do have it out, it usually stays on my belt so I can listen to music. I think trying to listen to Pandora, run the GPS and burn the display as much as needed would be a battery killer and it would not make it through a round.

You lost me when you said "I keep my phone on my belt". Do you also have a pocket protector for your BIC ballpoint pens? NERD ALERT!!

[dcmidnight]

I would like to try the SGX but I'm currently more than happy with the upro. As far as the "oh my god I cant possible pay a yearly fee" argument goes I'm not going to agree or disagree. But  I do love that guys who spend $40 on a dozen balls, $80 on greens fees and $400 on a driver complain about a $30 a year fee for a really good gps device. Regardless of what you think of the cost I dont think anyone would argue that Skygolf makes a top notch device. If people choose to pay it and like it - I'm not going to argue.

Edited by dcmidnight, 23 April 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Andy L]

Swisstrader98, on 23 April 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Andy L, on 23 April 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Dude, get a hold of yourself.  Accept the fact that people like different things.  I don't get the value in the whole skycaddie membership thing either but some people do.  Some of the biggest GPS makers have no annual fee.  Then of course even if you ignore the whole rules thing which is illogical to me also, you can't debate that a dedicated device offers advantages that a MFD does not. For example most golf GPS screens are far better suited for outdoor use in bright light than a smartphone screen.  Killing your phone battery because you need your screen blazing for 4 hours is a non issue on a dedicated GPS.  Also I don't want to interact and push buttons on my GPS while I play--- a dedicated golf GPS is better suited for that.  Also I don't want my GPS screen interrupted by a text or phone call--- that won't happen on a dedicated device.  I'm not really keen on having my phone out banging around on the course where there is more opportunity to drop and damage it.  If I do have it out, it usually stays on my belt so I can listen to music. I think trying to listen to Pandora, run the GPS and burn the display as much as needed would be a battery killer and it would not make it through a round.

You lost me when you said "I keep my phone on my belt". Do you also have a pocket protector for your BIC ballpoint pens? NERD ALERT!!

Now you're just being an idiot troll.  We're done.

Edited by Andy L, 23 April 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[slc14]

I love my Golfshot app. I've found it to be very accurate and user friendly

[dlopez]

IvanDrago, on 27 March 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Does anyone know an app that does all the stat tracking and scorecard features that golf logix does but doesnt have gps?

Titleist has one and SkyGolf!!!

[LeeD]

I am new to these forums but I thought I would add my own experiences. I have a laser and the Golfshot GPS app on my iPhone 4S. I tried Golflogix years ago and switched. I have also used Skycaddies of friends that I was playing with and I have found the Golfshot app is just as accurate as the Skycaddie. I am in Naples, FL and 2 years ago we rebuilt the course I work at and lasered every sprinkler head. I stood over a sprinkler marked at 171 to the middle and the Golfshot app read 172. That was with my iPhone 3GS and have since checked the app multiple times with my own laser and it is never more than a yard or 2 off. I don't know if what part of the country you are in makes a difference but I am more than satisfied with the accuracy of the app and I am a tournament golfer (+1) handicap. If the USGA doesn't change the rule for 2013 then I will look at buying a dedicated device but until then my schedule doesn't take me anywhere that not being able to use my iPhone will affect me.

[Swisstrader98]

+1 to all that...same experience for me. Wildly accurate for something thats so easy to use

LeeD, on 29 April 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

I am new to these forums but I thought I would add my own experiences. I have a laser and the Golfshot GPS app on my iPhone 4S. I tried Golflogix years ago and switched. I have also used Skycaddies of friends that I was playing with and I have found the Golfshot app is just as accurate as the Skycaddie. I am in Naples, FL and 2 years ago we rebuilt the course I work at and lasered every sprinkler head. I stood over a sprinkler marked at 171 to the middle and the Golfshot app read 172. That was with my iPhone 3GS and have since checked the app multiple times with my own laser and it is never more than a yard or 2 off. I don't know if what part of the country you are in makes a difference but I am more than satisfied with the accuracy of the app and I am a tournament golfer (+1) handicap. If the USGA doesn't change the rule for 2013 then I will look at buying a dedicated device but until then my schedule doesn't take me anywhere that not being able to use my iPhone will affect me.

[TM_HOYER]

I know the golf app people ask why do people use dedicated GPS when golf GPS apps are so cheap. It could be because how expensive that golf GPS app really is. Before you can buy the golf GPS app you have to buy a phone ($200 to $300 iPhone 4S) and commit to a two year voice / data plan ($60 to $100 per month on average). So over two years you are committing to paying out $1640 to $2700. For a lot of people that is a lot of money. Also you need to live in an area where a data signal is available and the course you like to play has a data signal. I play a number of courses each year that you cannot get a data or voice signal.

You can get Skycaddies for between $150 and $400. The membership is $30 or $50 per year. So over two years you pay out between $210 and $500. And as long as your course has access to the sky, you can get a GPS signal. So you will not be left not knowing your yardages because the course is in the middle of nowhere.

Yes I know the smartphone can be used for other things, but your total out of pocket for that golf GPS app is a lot higher than the dedicated GPS.

[SnowPlow]

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I know the golf app people ask why do people use dedicated GPS when golf GPS apps are so cheap. It could be because how expensive that golf GPS app really is. Before you can buy the golf GPS app you have to buy a phone ($200 to $300 iPhone 4S) and commit to a two year voice / data plan ($60 to $100 per month on average). So over two years you are committing to paying out $1640 to $2700. For a lot of people that is a lot of money. Also you need to live in an area where a data signal is available and the course you like to play has a data signal. I play a number of courses each year that you cannot get a data or voice signal.

You can get Skycaddies for between $150 and $400. The membership is $30 or $50 per year. So over two years you pay out between $210 and $500. And as long as your course has access to the sky, you can get a GPS signal. So you will not be left not knowing your yardages because the course is in the middle of nowhere.

Yes I know the smartphone can be used for other things, but your total out of pocket for that golf GPS app is a lot higher than the dedicated GPS.

Your logic here is flawed, I don't know anyone who went out and bought a smartphone and a data plan because they wanted to use a Golf app, the Golf app is secondary to their need for a smart phone. The vast majority have the smart phone anyway, it's a sunk cost. Why do they need to go out and buy another device for between $150 and $400 plus $30 to $50 a year above their commitment to their phone? That's the whole point for most...I have a phone with a GPS and there are plenty of apps..why spend so much extra? Using this same reverse logic , your expense argument suggests that people who have Skycaddies won't have smart phones.

[TM_HOYER]

SnowPlow, on 30 April 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I know the golf app people ask why do people use dedicated GPS when golf GPS apps are so cheap. It could be because how expensive that golf GPS app really is. Before you can buy the golf GPS app you have to buy a phone ($200 to $300 iPhone 4S) and commit to a two year voice / data plan ($60 to $100 per month on average). So over two years you are committing to paying out $1640 to $2700. For a lot of people that is a lot of money. Also you need to live in an area where a data signal is available and the course you like to play has a data signal. I play a number of courses each year that you cannot get a data or voice signal.

You can get Skycaddies for between $150 and $400. The membership is $30 or $50 per year. So over two years you pay out between $210 and $500. And as long as your course has access to the sky, you can get a GPS signal. So you will not be left not knowing your yardages because the course is in the middle of nowhere.

Yes I know the smartphone can be used for other things, but your total out of pocket for that golf GPS app is a lot higher than the dedicated GPS.

Your logic here is flawed, I don't know anyone who went out and bought a smartphone and a data plan because they wanted to use a Golf app, the Golf app is secondary to their need for a smart phone. The vast majority have the smart phone anyway, it's a sunk cost. Why do they need to go out and buy another device for between $150 and $400 plus $30 to $50 a year above their commitment to their phone? That's the whole point for most...I have a phone with a GPS and there are plenty of apps..why spend so much extra? Using this same reverse logic , your expense argument suggests that people who have Skycaddies won't have smart phones.

I wrote my original post because your logic is flawed. You have to consider ALL COSTS when you compare the two. You cannot compare app cost to hardware / membership costs because that is an incomplete and unfair comparison. The cost to own and use a smartphone is high and out of reach for many people or people just do not have the need for a smartphone. A free phone with a pay as you use plan is all they need.

For me, I have a dedicated golf GPS because I want distances that I know are correct, that I know it will work at all courses that are available to me for my GPS, will give me more information than can be derived from a satellite photo, and is conforming for my scores that I submit to the USGA / GHIN. With Skycaddie I get that, with a golf GPS app, I get none of that.

[Andy L]

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

SnowPlow, on 30 April 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I know the golf app people ask why do people use dedicated GPS when golf GPS apps are so cheap. It could be because how expensive that golf GPS app really is. Before you can buy the golf GPS app you have to buy a phone ($200 to $300 iPhone 4S) and commit to a two year voice / data plan ($60 to $100 per month on average). So over two years you are committing to paying out $1640 to $2700. For a lot of people that is a lot of money. Also you need to live in an area where a data signal is available and the course you like to play has a data signal. I play a number of courses each year that you cannot get a data or voice signal.

You can get Skycaddies for between $150 and $400. The membership is $30 or $50 per year. So over two years you pay out between $210 and $500. And as long as your course has access to the sky, you can get a GPS signal. So you will not be left not knowing your yardages because the course is in the middle of nowhere.

Yes I know the smartphone can be used for other things, but your total out of pocket for that golf GPS app is a lot higher than the dedicated GPS.

Your logic here is flawed, I don't know anyone who went out and bought a smartphone and a data plan because they wanted to use a Golf app, the Golf app is secondary to their need for a smart phone. The vast majority have the smart phone anyway, it's a sunk cost. Why do they need to go out and buy another device for between $150 and $400 plus $30 to $50 a year above their commitment to their phone? That's the whole point for most...I have a phone with a GPS and there are plenty of apps..why spend so much extra? Using this same reverse logic , your expense argument suggests that people who have Skycaddies won't have smart phones.

I wrote my original post because your logic is flawed. You have to consider ALL COSTS when you compare the two. You cannot compare app cost to hardware / membership costs because that is an incomplete and unfair comparison. The cost to own and use a smartphone is high and out of reach for many people or people just do not have the need for a smartphone. A free phone with a pay as you use plan is all they need.

For me, I have a dedicated golf GPS because I want distances that I know are correct, that I know it will work at all courses that are available to me for my GPS, will give me more information than can be derived from a satellite photo, and is conforming for my scores that I submit to the USGA / GHIN. With Skycaddie I get that, with a golf GPS app, I get none of that.

You wouldn't buy a smartphone just to have a golf GPS, but if you already have a smartphone and don't want to buy a golf GPS, then an App might be for you-- so long as you accept the limitations.  The other poster was right in calling it a sunk cost and the smartphone costs are irrelevant in the cost comparison.

You were correct about the smartphone limitation when data availability is limited.  You could easily be in a area where 3G/4G network availability is limited, and if you can't fully load maps ahead of time then the phone app might be useless.  Another concern about the data network would also be if you are playing out of country where data roaming charges would be costly.   On the other hand if you can load maps ahead of time then the GPS works just fine without a data network.

Smartphone apps are okay, but my Garmin in the car is still way better.  My golf guru is still way better than any phone app on the course.  I also wouldn't use my phone GPS when I'm piloting a plane (even VFR) because the in panel Garmin Nav or hand held Garmin nav is far superior.

Bottom line is that phones can do many things decently well and may be good enough for many, but can't beat the tangible advantages of a dedicated device other than costs.

Edited by Andy L, 30 April 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[SnowPlow]

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

SnowPlow, on 30 April 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I know the golf app people ask why do people use dedicated GPS when golf GPS apps are so cheap. It could be because how expensive that golf GPS app really is. Before you can buy the golf GPS app you have to buy a phone ($200 to $300 iPhone 4S) and commit to a two year voice / data plan ($60 to $100 per month on average). So over two years you are committing to paying out $1640 to $2700. For a lot of people that is a lot of money. Also you need to live in an area where a data signal is available and the course you like to play has a data signal. I play a number of courses each year that you cannot get a data or voice signal.

You can get Skycaddies for between $150 and $400. The membership is $30 or $50 per year. So over two years you pay out between $210 and $500. And as long as your course has access to the sky, you can get a GPS signal. So you will not be left not knowing your yardages because the course is in the middle of nowhere.

Yes I know the smartphone can be used for other things, but your total out of pocket for that golf GPS app is a lot higher than the dedicated GPS.

Your logic here is flawed, I don't know anyone who went out and bought a smartphone and a data plan because they wanted to use a Golf app, the Golf app is secondary to their need for a smart phone. The vast majority have the smart phone anyway, it's a sunk cost. Why do they need to go out and buy another device for between $150 and $400 plus $30 to $50 a year above their commitment to their phone? That's the whole point for most...I have a phone with a GPS and there are plenty of apps..why spend so much extra? Using this same reverse logic , your expense argument suggests that people who have Skycaddies won't have smart phones.

I wrote my original post because your logic is flawed. You have to consider ALL COSTS when you compare the two. You cannot compare app cost to hardware / membership costs because that is an incomplete and unfair comparison. The cost to own and use a smartphone is high and out of reach for many people or people just do not have the need for a smartphone. A free phone with a pay as you use plan is all they need.

For me, I have a dedicated golf GPS because I want distances that I know are correct, that I know it will work at all courses that are available to me for my GPS, will give me more information than can be derived from a satellite photo, and is conforming for my scores that I submit to the USGA / GHIN. With Skycaddie I get that, with a golf GPS app, I get none of that.

You can talk all you wish about the merits and advantages of one over the other. However, to slap the cost of having a smart phone and a contract as part of the app is bogus. The vast majority who have smart phones did not buy them to play golf. They already have them to  do other more important things such as work etc. That's like me saying the cost of me going to drive down to a local golf course to play is not just gas money...I should be including my car payment as part of the cost of getting there..despite the fact I need my car to do many other more important things. You do not have to consider ALL costs...since people are already using them for their primary function and Golf GPS is not one of them. I don't know anyone who decides NOT to buy a smartphone because they don't play golf....

[Swisstrader98]

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I know the golf app people ask why do people use dedicated GPS when golf GPS apps are so cheap. It could be because how expensive that golf GPS app really is. Before you can buy the golf GPS app you have to buy a phone ($200 to $300 iPhone 4S) and commit to a two year voice / data plan ($60 to $100 per month on average). So over two years you are committing to paying out $1640 to $2700. For a lot of people that is a lot of money. Also you need to live in an area where a data signal is available and the course you like to play has a data signal. I play a number of courses each year that you cannot get a data or voice signal.

You can get Skycaddies for between $150 and $400. The membership is $30 or $50 per year. So over two years you pay out between $210 and $500. And as long as your course has access to the sky, you can get a GPS signal. So you will not be left not knowing your yardages because the course is in the middle of nowhere.

Yes I know the smartphone can be used for other things, but your total out of pocket for that golf GPS app is a lot higher than the dedicated GPS.

Seriously?? Probably the dopiest post I've read all year. The guy who said "flawed logic" was being waaay to kind. The "true" cost of a GPS app is about $20..and NO yearly fees, while the "true" cost of a dedicated handheld GPS is about $300 PLUS a yearly fee of $40-50!! How can ANYONE justify paying more than 10X for a device that does about the same thing?? Would you be willing to pay for a driver that costs $3500 vs a TM $350 club if it gave you a couple more yards??  Of course not.

On the issue of cell coverage, I have used the golshot app on a bunch of courses and have yet to find one where there's no coverage. On the flip side, when I owned a GPS device, if it was a cloudy day or rain, forget about using the device. Sometimes took half an hour to "find" my course and figure out where I am. How is that better??

Cmon son...get with the new generation of smartphones and please don't tell me youre still using a Motorola Startec:)

[TM_HOYER]

SnowPlow, on 30 April 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

You can talk all you wish about the merits and advantages of one over the other. However, to slap the cost of having a smart phone and a contract as part of the app is bogus. The vast majority who have smart phones did not buy them to play golf. They already have them to  do other more important things such as work etc. That's like me saying the cost of me going to drive down to a local golf course to play is not just gas money...I should be including my car payment as part of the cost of getting there..despite the fact I need my car to do many other more important things. You do not have to consider ALL costs...since people are already using them for their primary function and Golf GPS is not one of them. I don't know anyone who decides NOT to buy a smartphone because they don't play golf....

And you can talk all you want about how cheap golf GPS apps are but the truth is you have to commit to spending a minimum of  $1620 over two years just to use it. So the cost of the smartphone and the cost of your plan has to be included in calculating the cost. Which makes the cost of the app very expensive. I will  look closer when you can show me you can get a smartphone, data plan, and app for less than $500 over two years. Or you can show me a smartphone golf GPS app that can be used on a course without a smartphone and a data plan. Then we can do a fair comparison with a dedicated golf GPS device.

[TM_HOYER]

Swisstrader98, on 30 April 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I know the golf app people ask why do people use dedicated GPS when golf GPS apps are so cheap. It could be because how expensive that golf GPS app really is. Before you can buy the golf GPS app you have to buy a phone ($200 to $300 iPhone 4S) and commit to a two year voice / data plan ($60 to $100 per month on average). So over two years you are committing to paying out $1640 to $2700. For a lot of people that is a lot of money. Also you need to live in an area where a data signal is available and the course you like to play has a data signal. I play a number of courses each year that you cannot get a data or voice signal.

You can get Skycaddies for between $150 and $400. The membership is $30 or $50 per year. So over two years you pay out between $210 and $500. And as long as your course has access to the sky, you can get a GPS signal. So you will not be left not knowing your yardages because the course is in the middle of nowhere.

Yes I know the smartphone can be used for other things, but your total out of pocket for that golf GPS app is a lot higher than the dedicated GPS.

Seriously?? Probably the dopiest post I've read all year. The guy who said "flawed logic" was being waaay to kind. The "true" cost of a GPS app is about $20..and NO yearly fees, while the "true" cost of a dedicated handheld GPS is about $300 PLUS a yearly fee of $40-50!! How can ANYONE justify paying more than 10X for a device that does about the same thing?? Would you be willing to pay for a driver that costs $3500 vs a TM $350 club if it gave you a couple more yards??  Of course not.

On the issue of cell coverage, I have used the golshot app on a bunch of courses and have yet to find one where there's no coverage. On the flip side, when I owned a GPS device, if it was a cloudy day or rain, forget about using the device. Sometimes took half an hour to "find" my course and figure out where I am. How is that better??

Cmon son...get with the new generation of smartphones and please don't tell me youre still using a Motorola Startec:)

I already told you that your insults about my keeping up with technology are full of c**p. And your smiley face does not change it. An insult is an insult. To put it your way how can someone justify paying a minimum of $1620 over two years for a smartphone golf GPS when they can get a dedicated golf GPS that is better for $210 over two years. See I can use the same figures to make the smartphone look bad. You need to get with it and get a device that is designed to the job, do the job right, and conforms to USGA rules, a dedicated golf GPS.

And to the question on if someone would pay $3500 for a driver that could go a couple yards further than a $350 driver, you are clearly a noob because if you been around on Golfwrx, you know the answer is YES!

[Andy L]

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

SnowPlow, on 30 April 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

You can talk all you wish about the merits and advantages of one over the other. However, to slap the cost of having a smart phone and a contract as part of the app is bogus. The vast majority who have smart phones did not buy them to play golf. They already have them to  do other more important things such as work etc. That's like me saying the cost of me going to drive down to a local golf course to play is not just gas money...I should be including my car payment as part of the cost of getting there..despite the fact I need my car to do many other more important things. You do not have to consider ALL costs...since people are already using them for their primary function and Golf GPS is not one of them. I don't know anyone who decides NOT to buy a smartphone because they don't play golf....

And you can talk all you want about how cheap golf GPS apps are but the truth is you have to commit to spending a minimum of  $1620 over two years just to use it. So the cost of the smartphone and the cost of your plan has to be included in calculating the cost. Which makes the cost of the app very expensive. I will  look closer when you can show me you can get a smartphone, data plan, and app for less than $500 over two years. Or you can show me a smartphone golf GPS app that can be used on a course without a smartphone and a data plan. Then we can do a fair comparison with a dedicated golf GPS device.

I'm sorry but that is just not correct logic.  As the previous poster said, using your logic then you better include the cost of your car because you drive it to the golf course.  

Even if you wanted to include the cost of the phone and it's service plan for golf use you would have to amortize it correctly to golf use.  So you could say that perhaps 1% or 10% of your phone costs should be allocated to golf.  So even at 10% it would only be $162 over two years (assuming your baseline number of $1620).  To say the $1620 is all for golf is just flat out illogical.

[SnowPlow]

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

SnowPlow, on 30 April 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

You can talk all you wish about the merits and advantages of one over the other. However, to slap the cost of having a smart phone and a contract as part of the app is bogus. The vast majority who have smart phones did not buy them to play golf. They already have them to  do other more important things such as work etc. That's like me saying the cost of me going to drive down to a local golf course to play is not just gas money...I should be including my car payment as part of the cost of getting there..despite the fact I need my car to do many other more important things. You do not have to consider ALL costs...since people are already using them for their primary function and Golf GPS is not one of them. I don't know anyone who decides NOT to buy a smartphone because they don't play golf....

And you can talk all you want about how cheap golf GPS apps are but the truth is you have to commit to spending a minimum of  $1620 over two years just to use it. So the cost of the smartphone and the cost of your plan has to be included in calculating the cost. Which makes the cost of the app very expensive. I will  look closer when you can show me you can get a smartphone, data plan, and app for less than $500 over two years. Or you can show me a smartphone golf GPS app that can be used on a course without a smartphone and a data plan. Then we can do a fair comparison with a dedicated golf GPS device.

I don't know anyone in business that includes a sunk cost in cost analysis like you do, they would not last long in their career. It defies logical. You've already been called out on it by several other posters...enuff said.

[TM_HOYER]

SnowPlow, on 30 April 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

SnowPlow, on 30 April 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

You can talk all you wish about the merits and advantages of one over the other. However, to slap the cost of having a smart phone and a contract as part of the app is bogus. The vast majority who have smart phones did not buy them to play golf. They already have them to  do other more important things such as work etc. That's like me saying the cost of me going to drive down to a local golf course to play is not just gas money...I should be including my car payment as part of the cost of getting there..despite the fact I need my car to do many other more important things. You do not have to consider ALL costs...since people are already using them for their primary function and Golf GPS is not one of them. I don't know anyone who decides NOT to buy a smartphone because they don't play golf....

And you can talk all you want about how cheap golf GPS apps are but the truth is you have to commit to spending a minimum of  $1620 over two years just to use it. So the cost of the smartphone and the cost of your plan has to be included in calculating the cost. Which makes the cost of the app very expensive. I will  look closer when you can show me you can get a smartphone, data plan, and app for less than $500 over two years. Or you can show me a smartphone golf GPS app that can be used on a course without a smartphone and a data plan. Then we can do a fair comparison with a dedicated golf GPS device.

I don't know anyone in business that includes a sunk cost in cost analysis like you do, they would not last long in their career. It defies logical. You've already been called out on it by several other posters...enuff said.

I can say the same about you if in business you ignored the buy in cost before you could install the software. Although computers (which a smartphone is) can be used for multiple things, you would be fired if you forgot to tell your boss the amount it would cost before you could use the software you wanted.

[TM_HOYER]

Andy L, on 30 April 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

I'm sorry but that is just not correct logic.  As the previous poster said, using your logic then you better include the cost of your car because you drive it to the golf course.  

Even if you wanted to include the cost of the phone and it's service plan for golf use you would have to amortize it correctly to golf use.  So you could say that perhaps 1% or 10% of your phone costs should be allocated to golf.  So even at 10% it would only be $162 over two years (assuming your baseline number of $1620).  To say the $1620 is all for golf is just flat out illogical.

When a poster pulls out things like the car example or the driver example, that is just someone trying to blow smoke in your face to confuse the issue. Let's just stick to the costs. It is a minimum cost of $1620 to get you to the point you can get the app.

[Andy L]

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

I can say the same about you if in business you ignored the buy in cost before you could install the software. Although computers (which a smartphone is) can be used for multiple things, you would be fired if you forgot to tell your boss the amount it would cost before you could use the software you wanted.

Continuing along your line of logic, then you'd better include your computer costs and/or wifi network and monthly internet costs for operating your GPS, because you need them to download new courses and update your GPS.

Seriously I'm not trying to pick on you.  I agree a dedicated device is better.  But your cost model just doesn't hold water.

Edited by Andy L, 30 April 2012 - 07:31 PM.

[SnowPlow]

Andy L, on 30 April 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

I can say the same about you if in business you ignored the buy in cost before you could install the software. Although computers (which a smartphone is) can be used for multiple things, you would be fired if you forgot to tell your boss the amount it would cost before you could use the software you wanted.

Continuing along your line of logic, then you'd better include your computer costs and/or wifi network and monthly internet costs for operating your GPS, because you need them to download new courses and update your GPS.

Seriously I'm not trying to pick on you.  I agree a dedicated device is better.  But your cost model just doesn't hold water.

Those sunk costs of course don't apply to dedicated GPS users...just app users.

[Swisstrader98]

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Andy L, on 30 April 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

I'm sorry but that is just not correct logic.  As the previous poster said, using your logic then you better include the cost of your car because you drive it to the golf course.  

Even if you wanted to include the cost of the phone and it's service plan for golf use you would have to amortize it correctly to golf use.  So you could say that perhaps 1% or 10% of your phone costs should be allocated to golf.  So even at 10% it would only be $162 over two years (assuming your baseline number of $1620).  To say the $1620 is all for golf is just flat out illogical.

When a poster pulls out things like the car example or the driver example, that is just someone trying to blow smoke in your face to confuse the issue. Let's just stick to the costs. It is a minimum cost of $1620 to get you to the point you can get the app.

Dude: after about 10 ppl have told you your logic is flawed or just plain dopey, perhaps its tme to quietly walk away.

[TM_HOYER]

Swisstrader98, on 30 April 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

TM_HOYER, on 30 April 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Andy L, on 30 April 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

I'm sorry but that is just not correct logic.  As the previous poster said, using your logic then you better include the cost of your car because you drive it to the golf course.  

Even if you wanted to include the cost of the phone and it's service plan for golf use you would have to amortize it correctly to golf use.  So you could say that perhaps 1% or 10% of your phone costs should be allocated to golf.  So even at 10% it would only be $162 over two years (assuming your baseline number of $1620).  To say the $1620 is all for golf is just flat out illogical.

When a poster pulls out things like the car example or the driver example, that is just someone trying to blow smoke in your face to confuse the issue. Let's just stick to the costs. It is a minimum cost of $1620 to get you to the point you can get the app.

Dude: after about 10 ppl have told you your logic is flawed or just plain dopey, perhaps its tme to quietly walk away.

Sorry, you are in no position to tell me to walk away. All it means is about ten people are ignoring the facts.

[Swisstrader98]

TM: yes, the rest of the world is crazy and you are the only normal one. Carry on.

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