162 replies to this topic

[Stacy S.]

frichissin, on 24 June 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

I have Golflogix on my IPhone 4 and it always seems to be 5 to 10 yards off . Nothing better then hitting a 7 iron when the Golflogix app tells me 150 to the center of the green and I come up short I played a few times with others who had a rangefinder and 5 to 10 yards 50% of the time.

Does Golflogix have a rangefinder? Not sure...I know Mobitee does.

[jalves17]

shutitdown, on 19 June 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Golfshot App is great. If you follow all of the recommendations to conserve battery life your battery will be fine. I always have it charged to 100% before I play. If you turn WiFi off, turn the brightness way down ( it's sunny out you can see it fine with it turned down)..after a 5 hour round I always have 60-70% of battery life left. I just used it 2 weeks ago all day 9-10 hours on the course for about 40 holes and had 20% left. I am a pedestrian 12 handicapper but two of my buddies who are both scratch golfers recently converted over from their lasers. It is always dead even or within 2 yards of the laser. I don't use the stats feature much as I am more interested in golfing,smoking cigars, drinking beers and listening to music while I play. The stats and scorecard features are very nice though. I use it on my iPhone 4.

Good points as I do the same thing with my iPhone 4 and always have enough battery for a couple of rounds. Unfortunately my battery life was not as good when I had the iPhone 3G and 3Gs. It wasted 80% of my battery every round, at least.

[Pexeter]

It pains me to read people bash Golfshot.  I've been using Golfshot for about 6 months loved it, but with all this "Not Approved" talk, I went out and bought a Skycaddie SGX.  After the $350 purchase with a membership, I took it out and had both going during multiple rounds.  

• The yardages at different courses in different states were ALWAYS within 1-2 yards, so the Skycaddie never had an accuracy advantage like the commercial states, after that it's a landslide towards Golfshot.
  
• Waiting for the Skycaddie to power up and find satellites before you can choose a course is a PITA.  This is 2012, it takes way too long, Golfshot works near instantly.
  
• Battery life and Sleep Function - Why in the world doesn't the Skycaddie have a sleep function?  Its battery life is terrible, I've had it last just over 1 round, a couple times into a 2nd round.  Thats ridiculous, if the unit had a sleep function like the iPhones lock button to turn it on when needed it would help it tremendously.  Golfshot wins here also.
  
• Yardage details...Hmm, the commercial makes the features of the Skycaddie look amazing, thats all well and good if your course happens to have the advance features which not a lot do where I live.  I've played at least 4 course that only give you F/M/B on the green, and yes I DL the courses, they just don't offer any other functions.  With Golfshot and the satellite imagery, I can go to any point on the screen for an instant reading at every course.
  
• Scorekeeping, well, it's also terrible on the Skycaddie.  You have to upload your scores every 10 rounds to make room??  Serious?  Golfshot stores ALL my rounds, uploads them automatically to Golfshot.com, posts to Facebook/Twitter, and does a great job of keeping track of my stats.
  
• The Skycaddie is slow, plain and simple.  Turning it to the right or changing views is like using dial up internet, a $300 device should not be that slow.

In the end, I cant return the Skycaddie because they won't refund the $50 membership, but I feel like an a** spending that kind of money when my $30 Golfshot app did a better job on all fronts.  Its frankly embarrassing in my group that I did.  I do want a stand alone GPS, but if Skycaddie is the best out now, GPS manufacturers better get themselves in gear.  I thought I wanted to be "official" and get a handicap since Im getting better maybe get in a few tournaments, but was it worth the Skycaddie purchase? Nope.

[TM_HOYER]

Pexeter, on 27 July 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

It pains me to read people bash Golfshot.  I've been using Golfshot for about 6 months loved it, but with all this "Not Approved" talk, I went out and bought a Skycaddie SGX.  After the $350 purchase with a membership, I took it out and had both going during multiple rounds.  

• The yardages at different courses in different states were ALWAYS within 1-2 yards, so the Skycaddie never had an accuracy advantage like the commercial states, after that it's a landslide towards Golfshot.
  
• Waiting for the Skycaddie to power up and find satellites before you can choose a course is a PITA.  This is 2012, it takes way too long, Golfshot works near instantly.
  
• Battery life and Sleep Function - Why in the world doesn't the Skycaddie have a sleep function?  Its battery life is terrible, I've had it last just over 1 round, a couple times into a 2nd round.  Thats ridiculous, if the unit had a sleep function like the iPhones lock button to turn it on when needed it would help it tremendously.  Golfshot wins here also.
  
• Yardage details...Hmm, the commercial makes the features of the Skycaddie look amazing, thats all well and good if your course happens to have the advance features which not a lot do where I live.  I've played at least 4 course that only give you F/M/B on the green, and yes I DL the courses, they just don't offer any other functions.  With Golfshot and the satellite imagery, I can go to any point on the screen for an instant reading at every course.
  
• Scorekeeping, well, it's also terrible on the Skycaddie.  You have to upload your scores every 10 rounds to make room??  Serious?  Golfshot stores ALL my rounds, uploads them automatically to Golfshot.com, posts to Facebook/Twitter, and does a great job of keeping track of my stats.
  
• The Skycaddie is slow, plain and simple.  Turning it to the right or changing views is like using dial up internet, a $300 device should not be that slow.

In the end, I cant return the Skycaddie because they won't refund the $50 membership, but I feel like an a** spending that kind of money when my $30 Golfshot app did a better job on all fronts.  Its frankly embarrassing in my group that I did.  I do want a stand alone GPS, but if Skycaddie is the best out now, GPS manufacturers better get themselves in gear.  I thought I wanted to be "official" and get a handicap since Im getting better maybe get in a few tournaments, but was it worth the Skycaddie purchase? Nope.

• Are you talking about just the front, center, back yardages? Skycaddie provides a lot of yardages to hazards, landmarks, and targets which others cannot provide or provide as accurate yardages without walking the course.
  
• The time to lock into satellites is no different than other GPS units. Since smartphones use assisted GPS and do not need to lock into satellites (that is done through cell towers), it will start up faster.
  
• With proper settings I can get more than two rounds from the SGX. If you have the backlight always on and the brightness of the backlight high, it will drain the battery faster. Using setting the backlight to auto and less than 60% brightness, a sleep function is not required. Because of the new functions on the SGXw that use more power, it does have a sleep function to turn off the display until you need to read it. The Skygolf web site has information on how to improve the length a battery lasts. Also charge your SGX using the wall charger. It is a lot faster. If you charge your SGX using a USB connection to your computer, you will not get a full charge as the inactivity timer will power the SGX off before you get a full charge.
  
• The SGX includes basic front/center/back yardages for all courses built into the unit. It sounds like you are selecting the basic course data instead of the advanced course data. You should at least get a list view of yardages to hazards, landmarks, and targets. Also you should have intelligreen that shows the green shape along with the front, back, and center based on where you are, not from the center of the fairway. Most courses have holevue by now but there are a few exceptions where holevue is not available.
  
• The SGX only can download the scores when you sync which requires a connection to the computer. It has no other way to send the scores. Golfshot can download that automatically because the smartphone has a data connection that does not require a computer. The SGXw does have wifi built in so you can sync your scores along with download courses from a wifi connection (no computer connection required except to remove a course).
  
• You are right about the speed to charge the screen if you tilt the Skycaddie. A lot of people have turned off that function as it does not provide much use to them. The technology behind the SGX is older (about three years old) than a current smartphone, so it will be slower.

Edited by TM_HOYER, 27 July 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[Mystic Elder]

These SGX units are dropping like flies if this thread link is anything to go by.

http://clubsg.skygol...81b94d7e1c3b2a9

[DrCRHop]

frichissin, on 24 June 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

I have Golflogix on my IPhone 4 and it always seems to be 5 to 10 yards off . Nothing better then hitting a 7 iron when the Golflogix app tells me 150 to the center of the green and I come up short I played a few times with others who had a rangefinder and 5 to 10 yards 50% of the time.

Just curious, but if you were at 150 (give or take 5 - 10 yards) could you not see the 150 yard marker?  Or were you off the fairway so that the marker wasn't appropriate to judge your shot?

[churnd]

I absolutely love Golfshot.  Bought it a year ago & never had anywhere it didn't work well.  There's one course that's way out in the sticks so the cell signal isn't that great & it takes Golfshot a bit longer to update, but that's understandable.  I get distances to all the landmarks on or around a green... front, center, back, bunkers, water.  All of those distances seem to be very accurate & have improved my club selection for a shot immensely.

I also use it off the tees on a lot of holes because it'll give me distances to doglegs, water, or bunkers in the fairways.  It'll give aerial views of the holes with targets at the different layup points

The score keeping portion of the app is so valuable to me too... I really enjoy seeing my stats develop over time & having a record of all my rounds.  I can easily go back to any round on any hole & see what I've done before.

My profile:  http://golfshot.com/members/0547022710

I like the fact it's also tied into two other apps I own:  Golfscape & TW My Swing.  I don't really use either that much, but when I do, I'm glad I have them.  Golfscape is really useful for those blind approach shots.

Edited by churnd, 27 July 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[Andy L]

Pexeter, on 27 July 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

It pains me to read people bash Golfshot.  I've been using Golfshot for about 6 months loved it, but with all this "Not Approved" talk, I went out and bought a Skycaddie SGX.  After the $350 purchase with a membership, I took it out and had both going during multiple rounds.  

• The yardages at different courses in different states were ALWAYS within 1-2 yards, so the Skycaddie never had an accuracy advantage like the commercial states, after that it's a landslide towards Golfshot.
  
• Waiting for the Skycaddie to power up and find satellites before you can choose a course is a PITA.  This is 2012, it takes way too long, Golfshot works near instantly.
  
• Battery life and Sleep Function - Why in the world doesn't the Skycaddie have a sleep function?  Its battery life is terrible, I've had it last just over 1 round, a couple times into a 2nd round.  Thats ridiculous, if the unit had a sleep function like the iPhones lock button to turn it on when needed it would help it tremendously.  Golfshot wins here also.
  
• Yardage details...Hmm, the commercial makes the features of the Skycaddie look amazing, thats all well and good if your course happens to have the advance features which not a lot do where I live.  I've played at least 4 course that only give you F/M/B on the green, and yes I DL the courses, they just don't offer any other functions.  With Golfshot and the satellite imagery, I can go to any point on the screen for an instant reading at every course.
  
• Scorekeeping, well, it's also terrible on the Skycaddie.  You have to upload your scores every 10 rounds to make room??  Serious?  Golfshot stores ALL my rounds, uploads them automatically to Golfshot.com, posts to Facebook/Twitter, and does a great job of keeping track of my stats.
  
• The Skycaddie is slow, plain and simple.  Turning it to the right or changing views is like using dial up internet, a $300 device should not be that slow.

In the end, I cant return the Skycaddie because they won't refund the $50 membership, but I feel like an a** spending that kind of money when my $30 Golfshot app did a better job on all fronts.  Its frankly embarrassing in my group that I did.  I do want a stand alone GPS, but if Skycaddie is the best out now, GPS manufacturers better get themselves in gear.  I thought I wanted to be "official" and get a handicap since Im getting better maybe get in a few tournaments, but was it worth the Skycaddie purchase? Nope.

The USGA needs to get with the times.  It's crazy they don't technically allow a smartphones to be used for DME because technically the compass (or other apps) make them non-conforming.  Practically speaking I see smartphones being used by many on the course-- including those keeping their handicap.  Sure a purest might say that it invalidates a persons handicap, but it also means the person saying it is probably a jerk.

Lets be realistic-- there are a bunch of easier ways to cheat and materially manipulate your handicap if you so desired, including some legitimate ways.  For example one legitimate way could be if you play 7 holes according to rules you're supposed to estimate what you would have gotten for the remaining 2 holes-- if a sandbagger wanted maybe they would estimate that they got their maximum ESC score to pad their handicap.

The root of the problem is however that the rules for weekend golfers are the same as PGA pros which doesn't make much sense.  So much could be done with modified amateur rules that would improve pace of play and aspects that adversely impact the enjoyment of the game for amateurs. Virtually every other sport has rules for pros and separate rules for amateurs, perhaps golf should also.

As for your experience with the SGX, why don't you ebay it along with membership?

[nitram]

jabrch, on 07 March 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

I have a Golflogix GPS8.  Easy to use - gets me all my info, and works on regular AA batteries - so I never have to worry about it dying - I just keep a pack of extra batteries in my trunk.  I have a laser range finder also.  The GPS is good, +/- 2 yards 99% of the time.

This

[zombiejpw]

His logic is correct and my house isn't a house.  It is a $300k mortgage to pay for a shelter to house my $2,000 golf GPS and golf clubs.

[Ajlepisto]

I don't understand how something designed for a specific, limited purpose would outlast arguably the most important invention in modern history. Especially when that invention includes the capability to provide the same detail, as well as substantially more information and capability for the foreseeable future. (Assuming we make it past 2012).

But I guess typewriters will outlast computers and these new fangled tablets. Are people seriously making the argument that versatility is a downfall? In 2012? I am almost speechless.

Edited by Ajlepisto, 05 September 2012 - 04:16 AM.

[draver]

I have just read: "Distance-Measuring Devices (Rule 14-3)" which seems to define the prohibition of smartphone use if they are equipped with a weather app that COULD give the wind speed and direction.   Am I correct in assuming that this is the only factor prohibitiing using an app like GolfShot for what they describe as a "Stipulated Round"?

If this is the case, it is quite easy to remove the weather apps from iPhones.  It does require a JailBreak, and the use of another app available in Cydia that will permit the editing of what iOS coded apps are present in your phone.  From that point forward, the phone should comply with 14-3.

BTW, this debate has been going on for the past 3 years or so, and there is always someone who refuses to believe an app can serve the same function as their precious SkyCaddie.  I gave my SkyCaddie to a golf buddy after a few months of using GolfShot, and haven't looked back.

It is still somewhat amusing that the "Assisted GPS" argument still comes up.  That was put to rest years ago on this forum.

[golfpros1]

I have gps, and I have laser, and for 99% of golfers I'd say buy the gps, or even better, buy both.  I've owned or used many of the devices on the market, so I'm non bias about this info.

I've found that I use the gps on the carts more then the laser that sits in my back.  Also, when I compare the yardage of the gps to my laser, it's within a yard.  And I'm not painting a picture to make a point, I really have found this to be the case.  Even cooler, the local Disney courses I play have cart gps systems that take into account the various pin positions they generally put the flags, so I even get yardage to the pin.

Todays GPS are pretty darn good, and pretty darn accurate.  The advantage of having a virtual yardage book to all the points on the hole to carry or layup from, is a huge strategic advantage.  Yardage to the pin is a very one dimensional way to look at the course, and really benefits the pros more then the amateurs.

Now for ranges, having the laser is great.  You fire a few times, and you know the distances to all the flags for better practice.  Other then that scenario, no practical advantage.

lasers
And for what it's worth, I've had Bushnell and Leupold, and I'll take the Bushnell every day of the week.  Much easier to use because of the pin seeking and confirmation technology it uses.  If you get a laser, I recommend the Bushnell.  yes, leupold is known for great optics, but the software is just not as handy without flag prisms.

gps
If you're getting an individual GPS, I think SkyCaddie has the strongest product on the market.  The subscription stinks, I didn't like that part about it either, but I felt the overall experience with the device was better then other options.

apps
If you have a newer iPhone with long lasting batteries or similar, the golflogix gps is a nice alternative when in a crunch.  I did not feel it was as good of an experience, convenient as the standalone device.  For one, the glare alone will annoy you and they are hard to read in the sun.  also, i'm pretty sure these aren't legal for handicaps and tournament play.

Edited by golfpros1, 05 September 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[TM_HOYER]

draver, on 05 September 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I have just read: "Distance-Measuring Devices (Rule 14-3)" which seems to define the prohibition of smartphone use if they are equipped with a weather app that COULD give the wind speed and direction.   Am I correct in assuming that this is the only factor prohibitiing using an app like GolfShot for what they describe as a "Stipulated Round"?

If this is the case, it is quite easy to remove the weather apps from iPhones.  It does require a JailBreak, and the use of another app available in Cydia that will permit the editing of what iOS coded apps are present in your phone.  From that point forward, the phone should comply with 14-3.

BTW, this debate has been going on for the past 3 years or so, and there is always someone who refuses to believe an app can serve the same function as their precious SkyCaddie.  I gave my SkyCaddie to a golf buddy after a few months of using GolfShot, and haven't looked back.

It is still somewhat amusing that the "Assisted GPS" argument still comes up.  That was put to rest years ago on this forum.

The issue is not apps. Some people keep on repeating this thinking it makes the USGA look stupid but shows they misunderstand the rule. Smartphones have hardware built into them and code in the OS that makes the smartphone non-conforming. Just one of the functions that makes a smartphone non-conforming is because they have hardware built into them that can determine angle the smartphone is tilted. Apps then can tap into this hardware to show the slope of a green. But even if you do not have the app that can tell the slope of the green, it is non-conforming. The rule states if the device has functions that are non-conforming, the device is non-conforming even if the function can be disabled. That is why the Leopold GX-4 / GX4i has been ruled non-conforming even though others you are playing with can see the slope function is disabled.

[Andy L]

Not all devices are non conforming, see below.

Also pragmatically speaking golf gps apps are becoming highly ubiquitous and accepted, regardless of usga or not. Obviously check with your local tournament host to see if they are permissible in your event.

http://www.usga.org/...owchartv1-3.pdf

Q. What about multi-functional devices, such as a mobile phone, with a distance-measuring application?

A. On the course, subject to any club or course regulations, a multi-functional device may be used to phone, text, access the Internet or e-mail –provided the purpose is not a breach of the Rules, e.g. you are not asking for advice or accessing an application which gauges, measures or reports conditions that might affect a player's play. Using the device for any prohibited function would result in disqualification. When an application that measures distance has been downloaded to the device, the application must be restricted to providing only distance information in order to conform to the Local Rule. If there are any other features or applications on the phone that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player's play, such as a temperature gauge, compass or anemometer, this would render the device non-conforming regardless of whether these features or applications are used or not. If such features or applications exist, use of the distance-measuring application would result in disqualification. The device could still be used for other permitted purposes as described above. If the device contains applications specifically intended to access the Internet to gather information regarding conditions that might affect a player's play such as the local wind speed or temperature, these applications must not be used, but the device may still be used for distance measurement or other permissible uses. If the device contains general purpose applications which access the Internet such as a browser, the applications may be used so long as they are not used to access information regarding conditions that might affect a player's play. The device may still be used for distance measurement. If the device has a weather application that is active on the home page of the device and that shows the temperature or other weather information when the device is accessed for any reason, the player is in breach of Rule 14-3 and would be disqualified. The flowchartprovided also covers the use of multi-functional devices and should be of assistance in determining whether a particular device is permissible or not.

Edit: fixed the broken link

Edited by Andy L, 05 September 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[golfpros1]

most apps now provide you the ability to track your club distances and provide you club suggestions, and for that reason, I believe most would be considered non conforming for handicap and tournament purposes, even if you dont use those parts of the software.  now do i think that will stop people from using them at their local course/club, not a chance, but even in those cases, when it comes time for the club championship, it will be a local ruling.

[draver]

TM_HOYER, on 05 September 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

draver, on 05 September 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I have just read: "Distance-Measuring Devices (Rule 14-3)" which seems to define the prohibition of smartphone use if they are equipped with a weather app that COULD give the wind speed and direction.   Am I correct in assuming that this is the only factor prohibitiing using an app like GolfShot for what they describe as a "Stipulated Round"?

If this is the case, it is quite easy to remove the weather apps from iPhones.  It does require a JailBreak, and the use of another app available in Cydia that will permit the editing of what iOS coded apps are present in your phone.  From that point forward, the phone should comply with 14-3.

BTW, this debate has been going on for the past 3 years or so, and there is always someone who refuses to believe an app can serve the same function as their precious SkyCaddie.  I gave my SkyCaddie to a golf buddy after a few months of using GolfShot, and haven't looked back.

It is still somewhat amusing that the "Assisted GPS" argument still comes up.  That was put to rest years ago on this forum.

The issue is not apps. Some people keep on repeating this thinking it makes the USGA look stupid but shows they misunderstand the rule. Smartphones have hardware built into them and code in the OS that makes the smartphone non-conforming. Just one of the functions that makes a smartphone non-conforming is because they have hardware built into them that can determine angle the smartphone is tilted. Apps then can tap into this hardware to show the slope of a green. But even if you do not have the app that can tell the slope of the green, it is non-conforming. The rule states if the device has functions that are non-conforming, the device is non-conforming even if the function can be disabled. That is why the Leopold GX-4 / GX4i has been ruled non-conforming even though others you are playing with can see the slope function is disabled.

I disagree with that argument.  You are comparing apples and oranges.  The Leupold (sp) you reference HAS the function available, the iPhone without an app DOES NOT, even if the hardware for the measurement is present.    You are confusing enabling/disabling with whether an app is present to use information the device may or may not measure or report.

I'd venture that even the coveted SkyCaddie has a temperature sensor in it to protect the circuits if it overheats.  You cannot use that function, therefore it is not in violation of being capable of reporting a weather condition.

My point refers to the fact that every version of iOS includes a weather app.   It cannot be deleted by the casual end user.  It can, however be removed from the iOS by someone who knows a little bit about the software.   If this is hacked out, an iPhone cannot report a weather condition unless you go online and download from a site like www.weather.com, or call someone to ask how hot it is outside.  You can do that with a dumb phone.

[mcharlton]

I had a Skycaddie SGXWifi for a short time ... Grabbed it for a fantastic deal. While I did like it, I compared it to my regular playing buddy's iPhone gps apps, and they were always within 3 yards ... Mostly within 1 yard.

I have since swapped my Skycaddie for a brand new Scotty GoLo putter, and will go the route of an iPhone app (ethier golfshot or golf logix, still undecided). I generally play the same 10 courses through out the year, and for my needs the iPhone app seems like it will be fine for me!

[TM_HOYER]

draver, on 05 September 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

I disagree with that argument.  You are comparing apples and oranges.  The Leupold (sp) you reference HAS the function available, the iPhone without an app DOES NOT, even if the hardware for the measurement is present. You are confusing enabling/disabling with whether an app is present to use information the device may or may not measure or report.

I'd venture that even the coveted SkyCaddie has a temperature sensor in it to protect the circuits if it overheats.  You cannot use that function, therefore it is not in violation of being capable of reporting a weather condition.

My point refers to the fact that every version of iOS includes a weather app.   It cannot be deleted by the casual end user.  It can, however be removed from the iOS by someone who knows a little bit about the software.   If this is hacked out, an iPhone cannot report a weather condition unless you go online and download from a site like www.weather.com, or call someone to ask how hot it is outside.  You can do that with a dumb phone.

It is not an argument, it is the rule. If the device has the ability to perform a non-conforming function, regardless of if it can be enabled or disabled, the device is non-conforming. It is that simple.

[draver]

TM_HOYER, on 05 September 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

draver, on 05 September 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

I disagree with that argument.  You are comparing apples and oranges.  The Leupold (sp) you reference HAS the function available, the iPhone without an app DOES NOT, even if the hardware for the measurement is present. You are confusing enabling/disabling with whether an app is present to use information the device may or may not measure or report.

I'd venture that even the coveted SkyCaddie has a temperature sensor in it to protect the circuits if it overheats.  You cannot use that function, therefore it is not in violation of being capable of reporting a weather condition.

My point refers to the fact that every version of iOS includes a weather app.   It cannot be deleted by the casual end user.  It can, however be removed from the iOS by someone who knows a little bit about the software.   If this is hacked out, an iPhone cannot report a weather condition unless you go online and download from a site like www.weather.com, or call someone to ask how hot it is outside.  You can do that with a dumb phone.

It is not an argument, it is the rule. If the device has the ability to perform a non-conforming function, regardless of if it can be enabled or disabled, the device is non-conforming. It is that simple.

You have contradicted yourself again.  Your claim does not seem to be supported by the rules, it seems to only be your opinion of the rules.  By your definition, with enough knowledge, a SkyCaddie COULD be modified to indicate the temp, therefore it is also non-conforming.

USGA Rules & Decisions

Appendix IV states:

"A multi-functional device, such as a smartphone or PDA, may be used as a distance measuring device provided it contains a distance measuring application that meets all of the above limitations (i.e., it must measure distance only). In addition, when the distance measuring application is being used, there must be no other features or applications INSTALLED on the device that, if used, would be in breach of the Rules, whether or not they are actually used."

So, like I said, you're wrong again, but I imagine you will keep beating this dead horse.

[golfpros1]

The United States Golf Association (USGA) and R&A Rules Ltd. (The R&A), which together set the global rules of golf, determined in 2006 that electronic distance measuring devices, including GPS and laser devices, are permitted for use under the Rules of Golf when a local rule is put into effect. Previously, they were not.
Since 2006, the golf GPS and rangefinder market has grown significantly, and the latest devices include advanced green views, scorekeeping features, and more. Golf GPS apps have also found their way on to the Apple iPhone, BlackBerry phones, and other mobile electronics.
The expansion of electronics use on the golf course caused the USGA and The R&A to issue in fall 2009 a “Joint Statement on Electronic Devices, Including Distance-measuring Devices.”

The statement was issued for two reasons:

• To reiterate that “the device must measure distance only; it must not measure other conditions such as wind speed or direction, the slope of the ground, or the temperature.”
  
• To clarify what may or may not be done with “multi-functional devices” such as the iPhone and BlackBerry in competition.

Smartphones and Other Multi-function Devices
In the case of multi-function and smartphone devices that can run golf gps apps, such as the iPhone and BlackBerry, the ruling is more complex, but it is clear. Some have interpreted the 2009 USGA/R&A Joint Statement to mean that multi-function devices that may include phone, Web-browser, and weather app capability, are not permitted for competition under any circumstances.

That is not the case, says Carter Rich, equipment standards manager for the USGA Test Center, based in Far Hills, New Jersey. For example, use of a conforming golf GPS app on an iPhone or BlackBerry is allowed when the local rule permitting use of such apps is in effect, with some qualifiers.

Edited by golfpros1, 05 September 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[TM_HOYER]

draver, on 05 September 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

TM_HOYER, on 05 September 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

draver, on 05 September 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

I disagree with that argument.  You are comparing apples and oranges.  The Leupold (sp) you reference HAS the function available, the iPhone without an app DOES NOT, even if the hardware for the measurement is present. You are confusing enabling/disabling with whether an app is present to use information the device may or may not measure or report.

I'd venture that even the coveted SkyCaddie has a temperature sensor in it to protect the circuits if it overheats.  You cannot use that function, therefore it is not in violation of being capable of reporting a weather condition.

My point refers to the fact that every version of iOS includes a weather app.   It cannot be deleted by the casual end user.  It can, however be removed from the iOS by someone who knows a little bit about the software.   If this is hacked out, an iPhone cannot report a weather condition unless you go online and download from a site like www.weather.com, or call someone to ask how hot it is outside.  You can do that with a dumb phone.

It is not an argument, it is the rule. If the device has the ability to perform a non-conforming function, regardless of if it can be enabled or disabled, the device is non-conforming. It is that simple.

You have contradicted yourself again.  Your claim does not seem to be supported by the rules, it seems to only be your opinion of the rules.  By your definition, with enough knowledge, a SkyCaddie COULD be modified to indicate the temp, therefore it is also non-conforming.

USGA Rules & Decisions

Appendix IV states:

"A multi-functional device, such as a smartphone or PDA, may be used as a distance measuring device provided it contains a distance measuring application that meets all of the above limitations (i.e., it must measure distance only). In addition, when the distance measuring application is being used, there must be no other features or applications INSTALLED on the device that, if used, would be in breach of the Rules, whether or not they are actually used."

So, like I said, you're wrong again, but I imagine you will keep beating this dead horse.

First, thank you for highlighting in red conformation of what I said and showing the smartphones are non-conforming. Skycaddies, Golf Buddy, uPros, and other dedicated golf GPS are closed systems which as sold meet the rules as defined by the USGA. The arguments you and others are making are like a little kid trying to get their parents to say something other than no. You will try to twist and turn far reaching examples to try and prove your point but the answer still remains smartphones are non-conforming. If you do not like the rule instead of whining on Golfwrx you need to contact the USGA and try to get the rules revised in 2016.

[Andy L]

Based on the flow chart smartphones could be compliant or non-compliant depending on how the questions are answered.  Seems fairly clear, that there are compliant smartphones.  Mine certainly is should I choose to use it.

http://www.usga.org/...owchartv1-3.pdf

The rules are fairly irrelevant for 99.99% of all golfers because they are going to use them, and tournament directors do allow them to be used based on events I've been involved in.

Edited by Andy L, 05 September 2012 - 06:12 PM.

[draver]

Quote

First, thank you for highlighting in red conformation of what I said and showing the smartphones are non-conforming. Skycaddies, Golf Buddy, uPros, and other dedicated golf GPS are closed systems which as sold meet the rules as defined by the USGA. The arguments you and others are making are like a little kid trying to get their parents to say something other than no. You will try to twist and turn far reaching examples to try and prove your point but the answer still remains smartphones are non-conforming. If you do not like the rule instead of whining on Golfwrx you need to contact the USGA and try to get the rules revised in 2016.

I'm glad we finally agree on this.  If I remove the weather, compass and other apps from my iPhone it is in compliance and may be used.  As an additional safeguard, I can remove the sim card from my phone which will prevent its ability to access the internet as described in the chart recently posted.  It will still function as a GPS since it isn't relying on  "Assisted GPS" like we already established, remember?


Thank you for clarifying that for all of us.

[TM_HOYER]

draver, on 05 September 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

Quote

First, thank you for highlighting in red conformation of what I said and showing the smartphones are non-conforming. Skycaddies, Golf Buddy, uPros, and other dedicated golf GPS are closed systems which as sold meet the rules as defined by the USGA. The arguments you and others are making are like a little kid trying to get their parents to say something other than no. You will try to twist and turn far reaching examples to try and prove your point but the answer still remains smartphones are non-conforming. If you do not like the rule instead of whining on Golfwrx you need to contact the USGA and try to get the rules revised in 2016.

I'm glad we finally agree on this.  If I remove the weather, compass and other apps from my iPhone it is in compliance and may be used.  As an additional safeguard, I can remove the sim card from my phone which will prevent its ability to access the internet as described in the chart recently posted.  It will still function as a GPS since it isn't relying on  "Assisted GPS" like we already established, remember?

Thank you for clarifying that for all of us.

And thank you for twisting what I wrote and be absolutely wrong. The statement you tried to show to prove your point, proves it is not just the apps, it is the embedded hardware and OS software that apps use that makes a smartphone non-conforming.

[m3nace]

Original uPro costs $50 and you can update the software.
Bushnell PinSeeker 1500 with slope costs $100.

$150 total and no monthly/annual fees.

Works for this old man.

[Bluefan75]

callawayjay, on 08 June 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Golfshot for the statistical advantage, and I use a Leupold GX-3 for distance.

So do you use the free version of the app then, or does the paid version contain a lot more from a stats perspective?  I have a laser, so I wouldn't necessarily use the GPS function, but a lot of other features look pretty good, but I don't know if they are available in the free version.

[Smood_n_EZ]

That question about IPad usage is interesting. I saw a guy using GOlfshot with his Ipad out on the course on day. Never occurred that he might also have it on his IPhone

[Bluefan75]

Please tell me there is more in the stats department in the paid golfshot app than in the free one.  No putting distances, I guess it calculates up and downs..but if the only thing missing is the gps portion, then this isn't so hot an app...

[Bluefan75]

I've looked at the free app for Golfshot, and the website for Golflogix.  Does neither one ask for at least 1st putt distances?