54 replies to this topic

[webber]

I have sold a few things of late and I amazed at the flakiness of some of the members here.  I have been burned more than a few times by guys who commit to buying something and then go dark, never pay, never respond, etc....here is an example of a post in my classifieds from a member who I had some dialogue with until he went dark......

"Look Name your price and I will PayPal you tonight for the Motore speeder 6.2 shaft. I've been looking for this shaft for a while now with the r11 graphics."

I am so sick of people flaking out on their committed purchases.  We should be able to leave negative feedback on the member feedback rating just like you can on eBay if someone doesn't pay.

[mister2cool]

I have always been a supporter for negative feedback for people who do not come through when a deal has been agreed upon, but it seems that I am the minority.

On the flip side, I can see it gets out of hand as well as people have different idea when a deal is agreed upon.

[CHARGERS]

Agreed, you should be able to leave negative feedback if a guy backs out of a deal after paypal address is shared, pretty simple.
Also, dont get upset as a buyer when something is sold before you decide to pull the trigger...old saying in car business, "you can't shop used cars"

[Togatown22]

Webber,
When you say "burned" do you mean they've cost you a sale as you've turned subsequent buyers away?  If so, there's an easy solution that I use: simply tell anyone who PM's you with questions right out of the gate as a disclaimer that the first to PayPal gets it.  I've actually put that right in my listings.

[brybry642]

Togatown22, on 22 February 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Webber,
When you say "burned" do you mean they've cost you a sale as you've turned subsequent buyers away?  If so, there's an easy solution that I use: simply tell anyone who PM's you with questions right out of the gate as a disclaimer that the first to PayPal gets it.  I've actually put that right in my listings.

Agreed.  People sometimes start to think clearly after they email you about, what would have been, an impulse buy.  Yes, it would have been nice for him to apologize and say that he had second thoughts, but what are you gonna do?

[Doc Mcstuffins]

Comes with the territory. This is the negative side of dealing through what amounts to be a classified section. You think this is bad? Try selling something on Craigslist. Half of the buyers give you the same speech..."I want it so bad, be there at noon Sunday morning", and guess what...you alter your plans, turn potential buyers away, and they are a no-show.

When you have no stake in the game (as in not paying a user fee) you have to take the good with the bad. Unfortunately as of late there seems to be more bad than good popping up.

[KaBoom21]

webber, on 22 February 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

"Look Name your price and I will PayPal you for the Motore speeder 6.2 shaft. I've been looking for this shaft for a while now with the r11 graphics."

I am so sick of people flaking out on their committed purchases.  We should be able to leave negative feedback on the member feedback rating just like you can on eBay if someone doesn't pay.

I wouldn't consider that a committed purchase.  He sounds eager with the "name your price" talk,  but as a seller I would at least wait for acceptance of the price.

[tpariff]

As mentioned earlier, just put a disclaimer that the first to pay gets the item.

As for eBay and negative feedback for buyers, you can no longer leave a buyer negative feedback.

[HeadonaStick]

CHARGERS, on 22 February 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

Agreed, you should be able to leave negative feedback if a guy backs out of a deal after paypal address is shared, pretty simple.
Also, dont get upset as a buyer when something is sold before you decide to pull the trigger...old saying in car business, "you can't shop used cars"

I had an issue as a potential buyer recently so maybe I am just sensitive to the buyer side right now, but if you are going to leave negative feedback for failure to pay then you are going to have to hold an item for a reasonable amount of time.  You can't have it both ways.  

If you feel an item isn't sold until payment is received, then the item isn't sold until payment is received.  In other words there is no transaction prior to payment being sent.  So no negative feedback is warranted.

[TheMackDaddy]

Has happened to me alot as well.

[CHARGERS]

HeadonaStick, on 22 February 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

CHARGERS, on 22 February 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

Agreed, you should be able to leave negative feedback if a guy backs out of a deal after paypal address is shared, pretty simple.
Also, dont get upset as a buyer when something is sold before you decide to pull the trigger...old saying in car business, "you can't shop used cars"

I had an issue as a potential buyer recently so maybe I am just sensitive to the buyer side right now, but if you are going to leave negative feedback for failure to pay then you are going to have to hold an item for a reasonable amount of time.  You can't have it both ways.  

If you feel an item isn't sold until payment is received, then the item isn't sold until payment is received.  In other words there is no transaction prior to payment being sent.  So no negative feedback is warranted.

How long should you hold an item???? If a buyer says "I'll take it, whats your paypal address" the deal should be over and done. But what happens all too often you get a meesage in the next few days that says "I changed my mind" or "something came up" and I'm not talking about a $500 set of irons either, most of this stuff is under a $100....little weak in my opinion.

[wolfpack]

Yeah some of the people on here think a little differently about how things should be sold.    You have to be very careful how you word things when dealing with folks here... a comment like "for 85 its yours"  might let people think they have 3 days to come up with 85 bucks.. lol.    I always run my sales by first to pay gets it.     Some of these turkeys can get pretty cranky... you'd think it was discount dress day at JC penny's they way they go after stuff sometimes.

[tytler32u]

If you post PayPal address in ad, what if multiple people send payment to that address in a very short period of time? You have to refund the money and pay dues? I wouldn't send money that way unless messages the seller right before transaction to confirm no one else had paid.


Also, when I say I will take it send PayPal, I pay right away. If someone says that and doesn't get back to you that day. I would move on.

[Big Ben]

I get a kick out of it when people post links to Ebay auctions and start quoting you the average sale prices. Hey if you want to make me an offer I'm all for it but don't tell me what my price should be based on garbage...BB

[HeadonaStick]

CHARGERS, on 22 February 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

HeadonaStick, on 22 February 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

CHARGERS, on 22 February 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

Agreed, you should be able to leave negative feedback if a guy backs out of a deal after paypal address is shared, pretty simple.
Also, dont get upset as a buyer when something is sold before you decide to pull the trigger...old saying in car business, "you can't shop used cars"

I had an issue as a potential buyer recently so maybe I am just sensitive to the buyer side right now, but if you are going to leave negative feedback for failure to pay then you are going to have to hold an item for a reasonable amount of time.  You can't have it both ways.  

If you feel an item isn't sold until payment is received, then the item isn't sold until payment is received.  In other words there is no transaction prior to payment being sent.  So no negative feedback is warranted.

How long should you hold an item???? If a buyer says "I'll take it, whats your paypal address" the deal should be over and done. But what happens all too often you get a meesage in the next few days that says "I changed my mind" or "something came up" and I'm not talking about a $500 set of irons either, most of this stuff is under a $100....little weak in my opinion.

I don't think you should hold it at all, but you can't say "the deal is over and done" and then sell someone else's items because someone paid more quickly.  You're trying to have it both ways.

If the deal is over and done when someone says "I'll take it" then it is over and done.  The items are no longer yours to sell to another buyer.

If the deal isn't actually over and done until you receive payment, then it isn't over and done and there wasn't actually a transaction.  The items remain yours to sell until you receive payment.  That's the price you pay to retain control over your stuff until you get payment.  Is it annoying?  Of course it is.  But the buyer is taking all the risk in these transactions so I think they should be afforded the benefit of the doubt.

[awil]

About half of my inbox is responding to wtb ads that buyer puts up and then they see you product and price ask for pictures and you never hear back all the while you hold the item

[rl4673]

I had an issue a week or so ago.  Had a buyer and I agree on a price and the deal was done, or so I thought.  The next PM said he was waiting for someone to paypal him for something he sold, and that he'd hoped to pay soon.  I waited a few hours and then finally had to sell to the next in line.  I explained to the original buyer why I did it, but I didn't particularly feel good about it.  Just had too many people say I'll take it and never hear from them again.

[Golfjunki71]

I hate that too, you send paypal address and they go off the grid. I always thought there should be a flake meter to label non payers.

[wolfpack]

CHARGERS, on 22 February 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

HeadonaStick, on 22 February 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

CHARGERS, on 22 February 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

Agreed, you should be able to leave negative feedback if a guy backs out of a deal after paypal address is shared, pretty simple.
Also, dont get upset as a buyer when something is sold before you decide to pull the trigger...old saying in car business, "you can't shop used cars"

I had an issue as a potential buyer recently so maybe I am just sensitive to the buyer side right now, but if you are going to leave negative feedback for failure to pay then you are going to have to hold an item for a reasonable amount of time.  You can't have it both ways.  

If you feel an item isn't sold until payment is received, then the item isn't sold until payment is received.  In other words there is no transaction prior to payment being sent.  So no negative feedback is warranted.

How long should you hold an item???? If a buyer says "I'll take it, whats your paypal address" the deal should be over and done. But what happens all too often you get a meesage in the next few days that says "I changed my mind" or "something came up" and I'm not talking about a $500 set of irons either, most of this stuff is under a $100....little weak in my opinion.

I agree with this, saying I'LL TAKE IT   should mean you have the money in your hand and we are making a transaction.    There should be none of this i'll paypal you later today, or tomorrow, or in a few days when my uncle's mother's brother's sister gets their car out of impound so i can get a ride across town and get the money from my baby mama.     It should be paypal'd within 15 miutes if someone asks for the paypal account.    

[HeadonaStick]

wolfpack, on 22 February 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

CHARGERS, on 22 February 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

HeadonaStick, on 22 February 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

CHARGERS, on 22 February 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

Agreed, you should be able to leave negative feedback if a guy backs out of a deal after paypal address is shared, pretty simple.
Also, dont get upset as a buyer when something is sold before you decide to pull the trigger...old saying in car business, "you can't shop used cars"

I had an issue as a potential buyer recently so maybe I am just sensitive to the buyer side right now, but if you are going to leave negative feedback for failure to pay then you are going to have to hold an item for a reasonable amount of time.  You can't have it both ways.  

If you feel an item isn't sold until payment is received, then the item isn't sold until payment is received.  In other words there is no transaction prior to payment being sent.  So no negative feedback is warranted.

How long should you hold an item???? If a buyer says "I'll take it, whats your paypal address" the deal should be over and done. But what happens all too often you get a meesage in the next few days that says "I changed my mind" or "something came up" and I'm not talking about a $500 set of irons either, most of this stuff is under a $100....little weak in my opinion.

I agree with this, saying I'LL TAKE IT   should mean you have the money in your hand and we are making a transaction.    There should be none of this i'll paypal you later today, or tomorrow, or in a few days when my uncle's mother's brother's sister gets their car out of impound so i can get a ride across town and get the money from my baby mama.     It should be paypal'd within 15 miutes if someone asks for the paypal account.

I agree with this.

So, if the money doesn't show up in 15 minutes what do you do?  Sell it to someone else or hang onto the item until the person gets around to paying for it?  

If your answer is "sell it" then there was never a transaction  made, nor was there a deal.  The deal is struck when payment hits your account. If you are waiting a few days for the PM that says "I changed my mind" then you must also have the expectation that you're holding the item for that person and you've removed your BST ad and aren't trying to make another deal.

As I said, it seems to me sellers want it both ways - people seem to want the benefit of being angry because you made a deal and want to hold the buyer to it, but the same people want to be free to keep shopping the item around because there isn't a deal until payment is received.  

I guess it doesn't bother me as much because I always offer to take back any item if the buyer isn't happy when it arrives.  I don't ask why, and if the buyer is having a case of buyer's remorse I'd rather they figured it out prior to me shipping it and having to go through the hassle of taking it back.

Edited by HeadonaStick, 22 February 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[wolfpack]

Sell it to someone else.. its fair to do so.   People get pretty ticked off but hey, your not running a layaway store.

[HeadonaStick]

wolfpack, on 22 February 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Sell it to someone else.. its fair to do so.   People get pretty ticked off but hey, your not running a layaway store.

I do as well,  never had anyone get angry (or at least tell me they were angry) but my answer would be two things:  1. If you weren't so damn slow you would have gotten your payment in sooner, and 2., You want to be able to pay or not pay without penalty so sellers need to protect themselves.  You can't have it both ways.  

[grantc]

HeadonaStick, on 22 February 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

As I said, it seems to me sellers want it both ways - people seem to want the benefit of being angry because you made a deal and want to hold the buyer to it, but the same people want to be free to keep shopping the item around because there isn't a deal until payment is received.  

Don't go and bring reason into the argument, we're all supposed to be angry!

Edited by grantc, 22 February 2012 - 10:26 PM.

[Togatown22]

tytler32u, on 22 February 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

If you post PayPal address in ad, what if multiple people send payment to that address in a very short period of time? You have to refund the money and pay dues? I wouldn't send money that way unless messages the seller right before transaction to confirm no one else had paid.


Also, when I say I will take it send PayPal, I pay right away. If someone says that and doesn't get back to you that day. I would move on.

Based on my selling policy (posted earlier in the thread), yes, I'd have to fully refund a buyer(s) who paid 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.  Also, the seller pays the Paypal "dues", not the buyer. As a buyer I'm not sure what you'd be worried about when dealing with a first-to-pay-it-gets-it seller.  To be honest, most people I've dealt with do just what you said; they ask me if an item is still available, if I then say yes, they Paypal and I mark the item as sold.  Takes an awful lot of guesswork out of the whole thing.

[HeadonaStick]

Togatown22, on 22 February 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

tytler32u, on 22 February 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

If you post PayPal address in ad, what if multiple people send payment to that address in a very short period of time? You have to refund the money and pay dues? I wouldn't send money that way unless messages the seller right before transaction to confirm no one else had paid.


Also, when I say I will take it send PayPal, I pay right away. If someone says that and doesn't get back to you that day. I would move on.

Based on my selling policy (posted earlier in the thread), yes, I'd have to fully refund a buyer(s) who paid 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.  Also, the seller pays the Paypal "dues", not the buyer. As a buyer I'm not sure what you'd be worried about when dealing with a first-to-pay-it-gets-it seller.  To be honest, most people I've dealt with do just what you said; they ask me if an item is still available, if I then say yes, they Paypal and I mark the item as sold.  Takes an awful lot of guesswork out of the whole thing.

There aren't any "dues" when you do a refund.  The full payment is returned to the payor.  I sell to the first time stamp and refund any others who paid.  It is a one click procedure and costs nothing for either party.

I'll be upfront here, I am something of a flaky buyer.  I am taking all the risks if I send cash and I won't do a transaction if I feel uncomfortable for any reason.  It is no different than going into a store and saying "I'll take it" and changing your mind at the register before you pay.  I can only think of one time when I actually asked for a PayPal address and changed my mind, and in that case I offered to send a little cash for the seller's trouble (which the seller refused) but I kick a lot of tires.  It probably annoys people although that is definitely not my purpose at all, but I give my buyers the same freedom to buy when they are comfortable.

[drpino]

Manage your expectations and don't consider an item sold until it is actually paid for.

Tire kicking, flaking, backing out, etc is all part of dealing with the BST.  

With hundreds of thousands of unique visitors to this site on a monthly basis, we are all bound to come across or deal with certain people who don't necessarily operate the way we do but they aren't explicitly in the wrong either.

The sooner one adjusts his or her expectations to more realistic levels, the sooner that member will be less frustrated, aggravated, upset or whatever when utilizing what this place has to offer in terms of the Classifieds.

The feedback system is meant for transactions, not the absence of them.

[CHARGERS]

drpino, on 22 February 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Manage your expectations and don't consider an item sold until it is actually paid for.

Tire kicking, flaking, backing out, etc is all part of dealing with the BST.  

With hundreds of thousands of unique visitors to this site on a monthly basis, we are all bound to come across or deal with certain people who don't necessarily operate the way we do but they aren't explicitly in the wrong either.

The sooner one adjusts his or her expectations to more realistic levels, the sooner that member will be less frustrated, aggravated, upset or whatever when utilizing what this place has to offer in terms of the Classifieds.

The feedback system is meant for transactions, not the absence of them.

very good overview, but even with that said, I think if a buyer request your paypal address and then bails on the purchase for whatever reason, that should be some form of neg feedback...thats my opinion. But, Im a rookie....

[Pudgelewis]

HeadonaStick, on 22 February 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Togatown22, on 22 February 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Based on my selling policy (posted earlier in the thread), yes, I'd have to fully refund a buyer(s) who paid 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.  Also, the seller pays the Paypal "dues", not the buyer. As a buyer I'm not sure what you'd be worried about when dealing with a first-to-pay-it-gets-it seller.  To be honest, most people I've dealt with do just what you said; they ask me if an item is still available, if I then say yes, they Paypal and I mark the item as sold.  Takes an awful lot of guesswork out of the whole thing.

There aren't any "dues" when you do a refund.  The full payment is returned to the payor. I sell to the first time stamp and refund any others who paid.  It is a one click procedure and costs nothing for either party.

I'll be upfront here, I am something of a flaky buyer.  I am taking all the risks if I send cash and I won't do a transaction if I feel uncomfortable for any reason.  It is no different than going into a store and saying "I'll take it" and changing your mind at the register before you pay.  I can only think of one time when I actually asked for a PayPal address and changed my mind, and in that case I offered to send a little cash for the seller's trouble (which the seller refused) but I kick a lot of tires.  It probably annoys people although that is definitely not my purpose at all, but I give my buyers the same freedom to buy when they are comfortable.

This isn't a problem-free remedy, though.  Unless my one instance with it was an exception.

I usually don't just send money to a PP address listed in the ad without at least asking if the item I want is still available.  The one time I saw a deal I couldn't pass up and did send the payment without PM'ing the seller was a pain in the rear.  I sent the payment and he lets me know it was already paid for.  That's fine, I almost expected it and the seller refunded the payment "immediately".  What I didn't expect was for the money to be deducted from my bank account the following day and then not be reversed for several more days.  I sent the payment on a Wednesday evening and the money wasn't credited back to my bank account until the next Tuesday.  I'm sure that doesn't bother some people on here, but being in college and a young married couple at the time, let's just say the $200 didn't exactly go unnoticed.

I do BELIEVE that paying with a PP balance already in your account will allow an instant refund as long as the seller hasn't removed the funds yet.  I'm sure PP has things like this in place so you can't just send money to a friend and have them remove the cash before it even clears the sender's account (I use a PP debit card, so it's possible for me to instantly remove funds from my account after being paid).  Like I said, mine could be an exception, but that's my experience with that.

I just typically put in my ad that I expect payment rather quickly and don't wait for payments for very long.  When I have something listed I check my messages quite often and usually get back to people very quickly.  If you can't get back to a buyer for a few hours, it's hard to expect them to be sitting there for hours waiting on your PP address to pay as soon as they hear back from you.  I don't ever mark anything as "pending" because that usually will deter some buyers who assume "Oh well, it's already gone."

Edited by Pudgelewis, 23 February 2012 - 12:36 AM.

[idriveahonda]

As both a buyer and a seller, I have seen it, as well as participated in it.

As a buyer, there is definitely a sense of "Man, what a deal!" going on quite frequently.  For example, I posted up my WTB thread and was inundated with lots of offers.  I have been speaking with a member regarding some R9 TP B's; he told me his price, I counter offered, and then he said he would think about it.  Me needing/wanting a COUPLE sets immediately, I bought two sets of irons that same night.  The next day he came back saying "Hey, thats fine, lets run with it" and was met with immediate hesitation from me, as I had already spent a BUNCH of money.  Luckily, I sold a couple car-related things, and was able to buy them.  Still a process that can go both ways.

As a seller, I do the "First paypal gets it" approach.  I say that in response to someone with questions regarding a "hot" item that I have for sale.  I just politely answer their questions, and mention that I have a bunch of interest on said item, and my policy is "First paypal gets it."  It is met with immediate payment from interested buyers, and turns away people who are hoping to get a good deal on an item not getting any interest.  

I feel out a lot of buyers.  I will toss a "feeler" offer on something I am very interested in, but at a price that I believe it is worth to me.  If they immediately respond "No" I know I cannot buy the item at a value to myself.  If they give the "Let me think about it" then it is gray area.  

There will always be both sides to the story.  There will always be buyer's AND seller's remorse.

[Buzzkill]

webber, on 22 February 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

I have sold a few things of late and I amazed at the flakiness of some of the members here.  I have been burned more than a few times by guys who commit to buying something and then go dark, never pay, never respond, etc....here is an example of a post in my classifieds from a member who I had some dialogue with until he went dark......

"Look Name your price and I will PayPal you tonight for the Motore speeder 6.2 shaft. I've been looking for this shaft for a while now with the r11 graphics."

I am so sick of people flaking out on their committed purchases.  We should be able to leave negative feedback on the member feedback rating just like you can on eBay if someone doesn't pay.

mister2cool, on 22 February 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

I have always been a supporter for negative feedback for people who do not come through when a deal has been agreed upon, but it seems that I am the minority.

On the flip side, I can see it gets out of hand as well as people have different idea when a deal is agreed upon.

I agree big time with you guys!