50 replies to this topic

[tylerdurden]

I am not trying to copy Mr. Hogan, but I am trying to have his dynamics in my golf swing. By that I mean a swing that is controlled by my pivot where the clubface is square to a neutral path for a very long time. I've been researching and working on this forever, but I am finally posting this for everyone's enjoyment because last night I think I go very close. I know this isn't a finished process (it will never be), but I think I might be on the right track and I am very excited. What do you guys thing?

[markponi]

Are you in charlotte?

[tylerdurden]

Yes I am

markponi, on 10 February 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Are you in charlotte?

[Staffer]

Well, its a good swing, but I think you need to explain a bit more what you mean with Hogan dynamics in it?

Remember - Hogan specifically mentioned that he created a no-left swing *without* sacrificing distance....

[gators78]

tylerdurden, on 10 February 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Yes I am

markponi, on 10 February 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Are you in charlotte?

HA I've been there, I used to stop at that range before I had to hit the airport to head home each week.

[proguy]

Nice swing.  great foot work.   The only thing is you steepen the downswing.   half way down your grip points at the ball.  Hogan or some off the greatest ball strikers were flatter.   Flatten your irons and try slotting the club better.    great swing though. Keep up the hard work it is paying off for you.

[svsvincenzo]

tylerdurden, on 10 February 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

I am not trying to copy Mr. Hogan, but I am trying to have his dynamics in my golf swing. By that I mean a swing that is controlled by my pivot where the clubface is square to a neutral path for a very long time. I've been researching and working on this forever, but I am finally posting this for everyone's enjoyment because last night I think I go very close. I know this isn't a finished process (it will never be), but I think I might be on the right track and I am very excited. What do you guys thing?

Yes, close. Just add more left side extension, which should change also your right heel behavior in DS, and you'll be close.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Your swing is lookin good. I like watchin the ball disappear. Flatter! Flatter! Flatter! Try overexagerating the flatness coming down. Also, looks like you are doing the jritter takeaway drill.

[tylerdurden]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

What is left side extension?

Here is an update. I think it is getting even better. Not copying Hogan though but trying to just have a pivot driven swing. Hitting it really well on the course.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.c...bed/2yitA1a5VME" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

tylerdurden, on 14 March 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Thanks for the replies everyone.

What is left side extension?

Here is an update. I think it is getting even better. Not copying Hogan though but trying to just have a pivot driven swing. Hitting it really well on the course.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.c...bed/2yitA1a5VME" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ball flight and swing is looking good. What kind of scores do you shoot? From which tees? From what course?

Edited by Ben Hogan Swing Project, 14 March 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[tylerdurden]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 14 March 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

tylerdurden, on 14 March 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Thanks for the replies everyone.

What is left side extension?

Here is an update. I think it is getting even better. Not copying Hogan though but trying to just have a pivot driven swing. Hitting it really well on the course.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.c...bed/2yitA1a5VME" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ball flight and swing is looking good. What kind of scores do you shoot? From which tees? From what course?

Thank you. For the past few months I'd have weeks where I'd shoot around or under par and then work on the wrong thing and I couldn't break 80 which drove me crazy because the month before I couldn't shoot over 75. But lately I've been pretty consistent with working on a FEW KEYs to MY swing and my ball stirking has been dependable, and I've been able to give the putter and wedges more love (third putting, third shortgame, third full swing).

To answer your question, my home courses are Fort Mill GC and Springfield GC both in SC. I play back tees and forward tees (all the way back is how I like it, but I play a lot of matches that force me up). Latest round was at away course in Wilmington NC at Porters Neck CC, I shot 73 (+1) from members tees.

I'm working towards getting ready for tournaments, I want to play in all the NC state events and try to qualify for USGA stuff. Just need to keep on working on the right stuff and try to always improve the quality of my practice so my game can TRAVEL.

[tylerdurden]

Check this out, made lots of progress with my swing this weekend. I am not trying to change anything major at this point, just want to learn to use this action more consistently.

[svsvincenzo]

In transition, Hogan already had his body in reverse-K position from your perspective...he's not doing that squat move...he just passes thru it, but when he passes that squat position he's already reverse-K...

[fats]

hogangolf101, on 09 April 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

In transition, Hogan already had his body in reverse-K position from your perspective...he's not doing that squat move...he just passes thru it, but when he passes that squat position he's already reverse-K...

And...He must keep his upper chest (sternum) from rising at impact. Not using the towel under the left arm would make that easier to do. Simple: button of shirt stays down at impact. More speed and power. Speed should be at it's fastest just before impact and through to left knee high. You'll be more on balance that way also.

Then, don't be quite so eager to go left. The going left is actually caused by a small hip rotation and when the left knee retracts after impact that releases the right hip. Thus the illusion of going left.

[svsvincenzo]

fats, on 10 April 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

hogangolf101, on 09 April 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

In transition, Hogan already had his body in reverse-K position from your perspective...he's not doing that squat move...he just passes thru it, but when he passes that squat position he's already reverse-K...

And...He must keep his upper chest (sternum) from rising at impact. Not using the towel under the left arm would make that easier to do. Simple: button of shirt stays down at impact. More speed and power. Speed should be at it's fastest just before impact and through to left knee high. You'll be more on balance that way also.

Then, don't be quite so eager to go left. The going left is actually caused by a small hip rotation and when the left knee retracts after impact that releases the right hip. Thus the illusion of going left.

Yeah...you can't maintain the 2nd axis tilt (keep buttons down) if you go swing left...actually, that swing left, now that I'm "learned", is actually a compensation for exactly what you said...lack of or small hip rotation...others call it humping the goat, but humping the goat quite later so you won't fall down in your face...

[MizunoJoe]

fats, on 10 April 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

Thus the illusion of going left.

There are a lot of guys who don't believe this!  

[svsvincenzo]

MizunoJoe, on 10 April 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

fats, on 10 April 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

Thus the illusion of going left.

There are a lot of guys who don't believe this!  

Hogan's intent ain't to swing left after impact. His intent is to get that clubhead DTL as much as possible. But he didn't do this DTL intent with his hands, he did it with his body and L arm. It's just that he's rotating and the R hip is releasing as Fats said, hence the illusion. But that exact R hip movement and keeping the shirt buttons down makes the clubhead travel along the targetline longer and squarer as long as you don't chicken wing your L arm.

[tylerdurden]

I'm with Mizuno on this. I think the idea Hogan was trying to chase DTL, when he HATED a hook, is completely crazy (unless you don't believe in the d-plane) AND contradicts all the video I've ever watched of him.

But I appreciate the responses.

[svsvincenzo]

tylerdurden, on 11 April 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

I'm with Mizuno on this. I think the idea Hogan was trying to chase DTL, when he HATED a hook, is completely crazy (unless you don't believe in the d-plane) AND contradicts all the video I've ever watched of him.

But I appreciate the responses.

That needs to be clarified. What Fats is saying is there is no swing left INTENT. Everybody that plays golf will swing his hands leftwards always after impact since the body where arms are attached is on the side of the ball. However, Hogan's INTENT is to keep the clubhead as close as possible to the targetline but at the same time rotating hard.

His divots are very shallow AND long. If he swung left INTENTIONALLY, his arc-path will go inside too early and too much considering his rotational pivot. But he didn't make the clubhead travel more DTL with his hands as that will be so inconsistent. IMO, he did it exactly as Fats said, plus the L arm behavior. With that, even if you fire those hands hard, it won't matter in regards to consistency of strike since the clubhead is travelling shallower and longer and straighter anyway.

[tylerdurden]

Thanks for clarification. That makes more sense. I dig it.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Alright Tyler....here ya go. And guys, just a friendly disclaimer.......when I do a side-by-side of you vs Hogan, don't read too much into what you see on the screen. If you're shooting in the 70's and you take this analysis stuff too seriously and you start messing with your swing trying to make it look like something different, you may screw your scoring up.................unless of course your goal is to look a certain way....then screw the scoring. My analysis is for entertainment purposes only.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[tylerdurden]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 05 May 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Alright Tyler....here ya go. And guys, just a friendly disclaimer.......when I do a side-by-side of you vs Hogan, don't read too much into what you see on the screen. If you're shooting in the 70's and you take this analysis stuff too seriously and you start messing with your swing trying to make it look like something different, you may screw your scoring up.................unless of course your goal is to look a certain way....then screw the scoring. My analysis is for entertainment purposes only.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this. I definitely got some good ideas on things I need to work on after watching. I've also being working on a number of the differences already. My goal isn't to look a certain way, I just want to me more consistent. But as I try to improve technique to acheive consistency, I keep going back to Hogan for ideas on where I need to improve. Obviously I have some issues through impact I'm trying to iron out. The tough thing is the mistakes happen long before impact and the release. And as I make the changes I don't want to lose some of the things that I "naturally" do well already.

Thanks again Anthony.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

tylerdurden, on 08 May 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 05 May 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Alright Tyler....here ya go. And guys, just a friendly disclaimer.......when I do a side-by-side of you vs Hogan, don't read too much into what you see on the screen. If you're shooting in the 70's and you take this analysis stuff too seriously and you start messing with your swing trying to make it look like something different, you may screw your scoring up.................unless of course your goal is to look a certain way....then screw the scoring. My analysis is for entertainment purposes only.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this. I definitely got some good ideas on things I need to work on after watching. I've also being working on a number of the differences already. My goal isn't to look a certain way, I just want to me more consistent. But as I try to improve technique to acheive consistency, I keep going back to Hogan for ideas on where I need to improve. Obviously I have some issues through impact I'm trying to iron out. The tough thing is the mistakes happen long before impact and the release. And as I make the changes I don't want to lose some of the things that I "naturally" do well already.

Thanks again Anthony.

No prob Tyler. The major difference I see of you vs Hogan is your setup. Your shaft angle a lot flatter at address. You in the 36-38 degree range, while Hogan in the 44-45degree range. Not sure about your height, but this will make a difference in the angular perception of your shaft in the slot, and when at impact.

Funny thing is that if I put you at a 45degree shaft at addresss rather than the 36degree, you are right on plane from transition thru impact.

The other thing that always stands out to me when comparing modern golfers finish to a Hogan-style finish. Why do modern golfers finish with shoulders so much more turned and left elbow more behind the head and club in the TIger/Rory finish position?

I don't think Hogan's finish is an aestetic/cosmetic pose or anything, I think it's just a result of his particular swing dynamic.

But remember, don't destroy your scoring by focusing too much on video analysis.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Tyler,

What were you doing here? Looks like these are your first swings on your channel. These are when you were Hogan.

Your setup is different. What are the other differences compared to your current swing? Is there a difference in ball flight, trajectory, consistency, scoring?

[tylerdurden]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 09 May 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Tyler,

What were you doing here? Looks like these are your first swings on your channel. These are when you were Hogan.

Your setup is different. What are the other differences compared to your current swing? Is there a difference in ball flight, trajectory, consistency, scoring?

Good find man! I forgot about these swings!

So to answer your question, I've worked on a million things since then. Literally read hundreds of pages of material and have written thousands of pages of notes since then on the golf swing and my golf swing. I've been heavily influenced since then by Slicefixer (his PDF) and Kelvin Miyahira.

My setup there was better and I'm glad you pointed that out. But my overall pivot action wasn't nearly as good in my opinion. Specifically, my body wasn't rotating as fast there and I wasn't leading the club into impact as well as I am now (although back then I was closer to returning the club back to the same address plane; not sure if that even matters though). You can see this from the DTL view if you pause where I am at impact then compared to now (now meaning current swings I haven't uploaded yet). My right arm is more bent and my hips are more open. And I am longer now (real swing speed about 115-118, not golf WRX swing speed lol).

I also like my backswing more now. The club doesn't get as flat and laid off. In the takeaway it also doesn't get as stuck behind me.

All that said, keep in mind I am completely delusional. I put a ridiculous amount of time and energy into my game/swing, so I have to believe I am making progress. I know I've taken steps back at times too, but I always look for the positive, where I've got better and what I've learned, that way I don't get crazy/depressed from the idea that I've wasted my time .

So, back to your comment my my setup and getting the shaft to that 45* angle, I think that might be a big missing piece that I need to work into my swing. I'm going to work on it tonight at the range and I'll try to post that up. Hopefully I should get some of the good stuff from the old swing and the good stuff from the new swing.

Thanks again Ant!

[tylerdurden]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 09 May 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Tyler,

What were you doing here? Looks like these are your first swings on your channel. These are when you were Hogan.

Your setup is different. What are the other differences compared to your current swing? Is there a difference in ball flight, trajectory, consistency, scoring?

Just realized I didn't answer all your questions.

Ball flight has changed a lot. I used to hit a push draw. Then I was determined to change to a knuckle fade because I was having a power block creep into my bag occasionally. Now I am really trying to hit it strait and be able to work it both ways. But I think I want to have just a baby draw (if anything) after watching all the studs at Wells Fargo hit that ball flight (and its more natural for me and easier for me to setup for that flight).

The height of my trajectory has definitely came down a lot. For a while I was hitting it so high that I could only hit my sand wedge about 85 yards when my stock 5 iron was 195 (mizuno mp-67). Now I can flight my sandwedge again like I used to when I was in high school and hit it 110+ if I want, and all my other irons are longer and more controlled.

I've always been consistently inconsistent. I've been trying to improve that through better technique and mental approach in all areas. So my scores have gotten better, but it isn't just a swing thing. I've read a lot of Stan Utley and Dave Stockon, and am in the process of figuring out what works for me around the greens.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

tylerdurden, on 09 May 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 09 May 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Tyler,

What were you doing here? Looks like these are your first swings on your channel. These are when you were Hogan.

Your setup is different. What are the other differences compared to your current swing? Is there a difference in ball flight, trajectory, consistency, scoring?

Just realized I didn't answer all your questions.

Ball flight has changed a lot. I used to hit a push draw. Then I was determined to change to a knuckle fade because I was having a power block creep into my bag occasionally. Now I am really trying to hit it strait and be able to work it both ways. But I think I want to have just a baby draw (if anything) after watching all the studs at Wells Fargo hit that ball flight (and its more natural for me and easier for me to setup for that flight).

The height of my trajectory has definitely came down a lot. For a while I was hitting it so high that I could only hit my sand wedge about 85 yards when my stock 5 iron was 195 (mizuno mp-67). Now I can flight my sandwedge again like I used to when I was in high school and hit it 110+ if I want, and all my other irons are longer and more controlled.

I've always been consistently inconsistent. I've been trying to improve that through better technique and mental approach in all areas. So my scores have gotten better, but it isn't just a swing thing. I've read a lot of Stan Utley and Dave Stockon, and am in the process of figuring out what works for me around the greens.

Good stuff Tyler. I see only positive in what you're working towards. My viewpoints come from a person with a semi-trained Hogan eye. You are definitely on your way man!

[svsvincenzo]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 09 May 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

tylerdurden, on 09 May 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 09 May 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Tyler,

What were you doing here? Looks like these are your first swings on your channel. These are when you were Hogan.

Your setup is different. What are the other differences compared to your current swing? Is there a difference in ball flight, trajectory, consistency, scoring?

Just realized I didn't answer all your questions.

Ball flight has changed a lot. I used to hit a push draw. Then I was determined to change to a knuckle fade because I was having a power block creep into my bag occasionally. Now I am really trying to hit it strait and be able to work it both ways. But I think I want to have just a baby draw (if anything) after watching all the studs at Wells Fargo hit that ball flight (and its more natural for me and easier for me to setup for that flight).

The height of my trajectory has definitely came down a lot. For a while I was hitting it so high that I could only hit my sand wedge about 85 yards when my stock 5 iron was 195 (mizuno mp-67). Now I can flight my sandwedge again like I used to when I was in high school and hit it 110+ if I want, and all my other irons are longer and more controlled.

I've always been consistently inconsistent. I've been trying to improve that through better technique and mental approach in all areas. So my scores have gotten better, but it isn't just a swing thing. I've read a lot of Stan Utley and Dave Stockon, and am in the process of figuring out what works for me around the greens.

Good stuff Tyler. I see only positive in what you're working towards. My viewpoints come from a person with a semi-trained Hogan eye. You are definitely on your way man!

Who is that semi-trained Hogan eye?

[tylerdurden]

Well I tried to get my hands higher at address last night at the range and it felt absolutely aweful. I couldn't hit a shot and felt the urge to leave the rest of my bucket at the range along with my clubs.

I'm not going to make my posture more upright, atleast not yet. I think it's a more cosmetic thing but I don't think it's important to hit the ball well.

I know changes take a long time and I am fine with that, but some changes feel so terrible right away that I have to throw them out, and that's what I'm going to do here.

Instead I am focusing on my pivot/body rotation in the downswing. I want to try making sure my right side doesn't hang back so much. I want it to fire through the ball better like Hogan.

Here is a good article on hip movement if anyone is interested. It is part 1 of 3: http://www.aroundhaw...urn-part-1.html