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Smoking on the PGA


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#181 spencer096

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:51 PM

Quote

Why does the PGA Tour see fit to require that the players wear trousers instead of shorts?

because they're willing to make a concession to the host club they'd like to have a tournament on?

Quote

In my opinion, banning smoking during tournament rounds is not about "protecting the children," it is about protecting the image of the PGA Tour. To have people smoking during actual athletic competition is unbecoming a professional sport. If they allow smoking they might as well allow the drinking of alcohol and going shirtless or pantless on hot days.


if the PGA cared about their image there wouldnt be ads for erectile dysfunction around every corner.

it's ok to admit the PGA cares about stupid, silly, antiquated, arbitrary customs and traditions that only appeal to a sheltered percentage of the golfing population.  well, that and the PGA doesn't really have any legitimate power over the game to begin with, but that's an entirely different argument.

Edited by spencer096, 07 February 2012 - 12:51 PM.


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#182 moegolfer11

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:53 PM

I do not smoke cigarettes. I do however smoke the occasional Cigar, my father is okay with that. Me and him even smoke together when we play golf sometimes. This does not mean that I do it like Spence Levine was doing. Yes it is okay to enjoy it. Maybe some do more than others. I do not however Drink alcohol, and refrain from drugs unlike some of my friends. You cannot put such a large demographic into such a small group of "bad people." Yall do realize that Tobacco is/was America's Number 1 Cash Crop; America was founded on Tobacco. People need to be less sensitive. Let people live their own lives. If they want to Smoke a cigarette while they play in a tournament, let em. That doesn't make him a bad person. Don't be too quick to judge. For all we know Spencer is a great guy. This thread should be locked up soon.
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#183 spencer096

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:55 PM

View PostBellyhungry, on 07 February 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

People get all up in arms when smoking is shown on TV but hardly any uproar when violence is shown on TV every hour. Plus it seems like binge drinking is celebrated.

they can show the opening scene from saving private ryan unedited, but can't show a woman's breasts or the middle finger or say the S-word.  

blows my mind.

#184 mandudebro

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:58 PM

View Postscratchswinger, on 07 February 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I have one simple question for the people defending this "non rule' of allowing PGA players to smoke during tournaments.

Would you feel the same way if Rickie Fowler rather than SL was smoking during PGA Tour tournaments and if it was broadcast on National TV? Would that still be acceptable?

Yep. I'm still the parent. If RF did smoke, the Tour and Puma wouldn't be force feeding his 'image' to the public anyway, so not an issue.

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#185 pappaf2

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:02 PM

View Postscratchswinger, on 07 February 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I have one simple question for the people defending this "non rule' of allowing PGA players to smoke during tournaments.

Would you feel the same way if Rickie Fowler rather than SL was smoking during PGA Tour tournaments and if it was broadcast on National TV? Would that still be acceptable?
I would feel the same way if it was rickie smoking. In fact I find that "mustache" he is sporting more offensive than someone smoking.

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#186 spencer096

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:04 PM

View Postmandudebro, on 07 February 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

View Postscratchswinger, on 07 February 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I have one simple question for the people defending this "non rule' of allowing PGA players to smoke during tournaments.

Would you feel the same way if Rickie Fowler rather than SL was smoking during PGA Tour tournaments and if it was broadcast on National TV? Would that still be acceptable?

Yep. I'm still the parent. If RF did smoke, the Tour and Puma wouldn't be force feeding his 'image' to the public anyway, so not an issue.

MYOB

oh that's rich.  john daly sound familiar?  he hasn't been a relevant golfer in, oh say, half a decade...still has TV shows, still gets press anytime he has a half-decent round and he has more vices than a hardware store.

then again, im not sure how much safer motorcycle riding is than cigarette smoking...guess we should ban that too while we're at it.  don't want our kids taking dirt bikes off huge jumps now, do we?

#187 Hawkeye77

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:04 PM

View Postspencer096, on 07 February 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

View PostBellyhungry, on 07 February 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

People get all up in arms when smoking is shown on TV but hardly any uproar when violence is shown on TV every hour. Plus it seems like binge drinking is celebrated.

they can show the opening scene from saving private ryan unedited, but can't show a woman's breasts or the middle finger or say the S-word.  

blows my mind.

Whoa, the only person on here without cable!

In reference to ramblings further up, you really believe the PGA Tour has no legitimate power over golf?

#188 nbg352

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:05 PM

View PostPotatohead, on 07 February 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

I'm kinda fat, and I bite my nails.... But I don't smoke.

Should I be on TV?


Nope, not until you start smoking. I think it's a rule
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#189 Pepperturbo

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:09 PM

Some one brought up a very significant point - smoking cigarettes, especially on TV, during a sporting event sends a bad "health" message.  Then IMO, people that are fat send a bad "health" message too.  Total up all the people that are fat; something says the insurance industry would say that problem is bigger then cigarette smoking.  Oops, America is the biggest offender world wide.  How about we ban fat people from tournaments because they are seen on TV along the ropes.  Now we have to figure out who's going to be the fat police and decide what constitutes fat.  Don't forget way too many golfers, including some tour players are fat.
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#190 spencer096

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:09 PM

View PostHAWKEYE77, on 07 February 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

View Postspencer096, on 07 February 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

View PostBellyhungry, on 07 February 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

People get all up in arms when smoking is shown on TV but hardly any uproar when violence is shown on TV every hour. Plus it seems like binge drinking is celebrated.

they can show the opening scene from saving private ryan unedited, but can't show a woman's breasts or the middle finger or say the S-word.  

blows my mind.

Whoa, the only person on here without cable!

In reference to ramblings further up, you really believe the PGA Tour has no legitimate power over golf?

obviously they have some..but i think it's pretty clear they're more worried about acquiescing to sponsors than improving their own product.  they don't have much say in regards to equipment and the USGA and R&A wield much more influence.

and yea, they can say the s-word and middle finger...at certain times, on certain channels with warnings everywhere about the content.  frank zappa asked a great question during a debate on censorship on crossfire...do you really think you're protecting anyone by taking away seven words?


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#191 avidshotmaker

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:11 PM

View Postspencer096, on 07 February 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

im less offended by levin smoking and more offended that someone finds a dude on tv, most likely thousands of miles away, smoking a cigarette is offensive.  there are bigger problems to worry about that some dude being shown smoking a freaking cigarette on tv, it has nothing to do with golf and it's a total first world problem.  why do you care?  seriously...why?  because you have to say something to your kid that takes 15 seconds?  because some dude on tv is not living his life to your exacting specifications?  holy crap.

bill hicks says it best...

Quote

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your [redacted] mouth."

im sorry if im coming across as offensive or callous, especially so if someone you cared about was affected by a smoking-related disease (for example...my father, who hasn't quit despite decades of my family's efforts), but do you really care what spencer levin does with his own life?  if you don't like smoking, why not write a letter to levin encouraging him to quit instead of bashing him and treating him like he's a worse person simply for a vice?  sure, it's unhealthy, but so is fast food and air pollution and too much exposure to the sun...if someone wants to enjoy tobacco, they know the harm it causes by now.  same with red meat and alcohol and recreational drugs, etc etc etc.

and it's HORRIBLE for levin to be shown smoking a cigarette but it's fine for prescription drug companies to air commercials for their products WHERE DEATH IS ONE OF THE SIDE EFFECTS LISTED during the very same telecast?!?!?!  and that's for a freaking anti-depression drug, not even something that's fighting a life-threatening disease.  hypocritical...that's infinitely more offensive than someone burning one down.

im not a smoker, and unless someone's blowing smoke in my face, i really don't care if they do.  you have the ability to change the channel, to not watch, to start an anti-tobacco movement...whatever...you also have the ability to control what offends you.  neither you or anyone you know is getting cancer from watching spencer levin smoke a cigarette during a golf tournament...let people live their lives however they want and reserve your judgement for things that actually matter.

i appreciate this post. its nice to hear objective views once in a while. I am not sure if you are responding to my OP or kind of addressing the overall discussion that has been going on here. I agree its not the worse thing in the world to smoke a cigarette while golfing. And yes I myself live thousands of miles away from

Phoenix. Am I offended by Spencer smoking, not at all. I don't blame him. He has the right to smoke. But what I disagree is that people's fundamental flaw in their arguments is that these players are out playing for recreation. This is their job, they play for a paycheck. When they sign contracts with sponsors their job is to represent their company and their product. These players dont have a right to smoke while on the job, they are allowed to by the PGA. Yes most companies give employees smoking breaks but if a surgeon has a surgery that is 8 hours can he just tell everyone he will be right back he needs to go out for drag.

And I actually agree with you about advertisers, the sad fact of the matter is it comes down to money, to an extent. I mean you dont see the Marlborough Open or Philip Morris Classic. Thereís a reason for that,

it gives a bad message. I feel the reason they dont care about the smoking on the course is because they don't see it hurting them monetarily wise. When/If it does then Iím sure you will see a different reaction.

And to the people who say kids aren't influenced by seeing players smoke. When Tiger became a pro golfer

and saw him bring the training aspect of the game, how many kids did he influence then. Look at all these young kids joining the tour now, they are bombing the hell out the ball winning tournaments and they all work out and take care of themselves because that is what Tiger did. Now put a cigarette in Tiger's hand and if he could still achieve the accomplishments he has while being a smoker I can guarantee you you would see alot more of these young players smoking.

Now Spencer Levin is not nearly as influential as Tiger, but donít tell me smoking on tour does not have an influence on these young kids who someday want to be a pro golfer.

#192 Vindog

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:16 PM

View Postavidshotmaker, on 07 February 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

View PostHogan, on 07 February 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

View Postkevcarter, on 07 February 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

I'm amazed how many feel the need to control other people's lives...

Sometimes it only takes a few words to say a great deal more than many others who use far more, bravo sir.
smoking kills

So does 90% of everything else done on TV.

I really wish they would stop showing the NASCAR driver slipstreaming behind the other drivers.  My teen might think this is a great way to get around.  The high speed chases on TV are really giving the wrong impression of safe driving, as well.

Those competitive eating competitions are not a great thing to show while America is among the fattest nations....
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#193 nbg352

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:16 PM

View Postscratchswinger, on 07 February 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I have one simple question for the people defending this "non rule' of allowing PGA players to smoke during tournaments.

Would you feel the same way if Rickie Fowler rather than SL was smoking during PGA Tour tournaments and if it was broadcast on National TV? Would that still be acceptable?

Yes. What does it matter, who?
As a past very heavy smoker, I'm uncomfortable watching others smoke. Anywhere. It reminds me that I looked pretty dumb for more than 40 years.
Until the practice of smoking is outlawed by legislation, it is legal. While I feel badly for the future health of those I see smoking, it is their right to do so.
If I don't like something that I see on TV, I change the channel. That way,I don't feel the need to express my personal outrage at having been forced to watch, on a golf forum.
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#194 mandudebro

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:17 PM

View Postspencer096, on 07 February 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

View Postmandudebro, on 07 February 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

View Postscratchswinger, on 07 February 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I have one simple question for the people defending this "non rule' of allowing PGA players to smoke during tournaments.

Would you feel the same way if Rickie Fowler rather than SL was smoking during PGA Tour tournaments and if it was broadcast on National TV? Would that still be acceptable?

Yep. I'm still the parent. If RF did smoke, the Tour and Puma wouldn't be force feeding his 'image' to the public anyway, so not an issue.

MYOB

oh that's rich.  john daly sound familiar?  he hasn't been a relevant golfer in, oh say, half a decade...still has TV shows, still gets press anytime he has a half-decent round and he has more vices than a hardware store.

then again, im not sure how much safer motorcycle riding is than cigarette smoking...guess we should ban that too while we're at it.  don't want our kids taking dirt bikes off huge jumps now, do we?

Based on your tongue in cheek motorcycle analogy, i think we're on the same side of the issue.

With regard to Daly, he and Fowler are clearly famous for different reasons and appeal to diferent demographics. So my point is not only 'rich', but also well reasoned.
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#195 bscinstnct

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:18 PM

He should add a dry vodka martini to his gear.


#196 Splitter

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:20 PM

View Postscratchswinger, on 07 February 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I have one simple question for the people defending this "non rule' of allowing PGA players to smoke during tournaments.

Would you feel the same way if Rickie Fowler rather than SL was smoking during PGA Tour tournaments and if it was broadcast on National TV? Would that still be acceptable?

I'm going to cop out a little on this one, because I don't have to make the choice, but the answer seems easy;

If Rickie Fowler smoked on TV, he would not be Rickie Fowler.  He would be some hotshot kid without a giant PUMA endorsement who didn't get any airtime because he did average but wasn't winning.  

And Puma would never put their money into a kid who smoked on TV because they would feel it gave their brand a negative image.  And they would be right.  I think Spencer looks like a tool walking down the fairway with a smoke, I just don't want it banned.  Rickie would have the right to smoke and sponsors would have the right not to give him FAT $$$.  

He would be Spencer Levine.

:)

#197 spencer096

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:21 PM

View Postmandudebro, on 07 February 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

View Postspencer096, on 07 February 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

View Postmandudebro, on 07 February 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

View Postscratchswinger, on 07 February 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I have one simple question for the people defending this "non rule' of allowing PGA players to smoke during tournaments.

Would you feel the same way if Rickie Fowler rather than SL was smoking during PGA Tour tournaments and if it was broadcast on National TV? Would that still be acceptable?

Yep. I'm still the parent. If RF did smoke, the Tour and Puma wouldn't be force feeding his 'image' to the public anyway, so not an issue.

MYOB

oh that's rich.  john daly sound familiar?  he hasn't been a relevant golfer in, oh say, half a decade...still has TV shows, still gets press anytime he has a half-decent round and he has more vices than a hardware store.

then again, im not sure how much safer motorcycle riding is than cigarette smoking...guess we should ban that too while we're at it.  don't want our kids taking dirt bikes off huge jumps now, do we?

Based on your tongue in cheek motorcycle analogy, i think we're on the same side of the issue.

With regard to Daly, he and Fowler are clearly famous for different reasons and appeal to diferent demographics. So my point is not only 'rich', but also well reasoned.

that's not the point tho...the point is that they're both heavily marketed, not WHY they're heavily marketed.  and even then, id say that both players are heavily marketed more for their activities OFF the course than on it...though, that'd be kind of unfair to daly since he's actually accomplished something as a pro golfer.

#198 tElihu

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:26 PM

Smoking on tv - Up to the producers of the show being aired
Smoking during a PGA Tour event - Up to the PGA Tour Policy board
Smoking in everyday life - Up to the individual (so long as he/she doesn't impinge on the rights of others)

Whether or not Spencer Levin is allowed to smoke during a Tour event is up to the rules of the organization holding the event (i.e. The PGA Tour), since he agrees to abide by their rules when he signed up. It has nothing to do with personal freedoms under the Constitution.

#199 mandudebro

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:27 PM

Read Splitter's response- he gets the point.
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#200 Thrillhouse

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:28 PM

View PostDevilGolfer, on 07 February 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 06 February 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

View Postscratchswinger, on 06 February 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, how many nonsmokers think smoking should be allowed?

It's just a matter of time before it gets banned. It's disgusting, sends a horrible message and a performance enhancer (calming effect/stress reliever). Nothing good comes from allowing it.

I do, I think that people should be allowed to do what they want within the confines of the law. Smoking is legal, therefore I think that Spencer should be allowed to make his own choices.
Drinking beer and alcohol is okay at golf tournaments. So I'm assuming that you're okay with them drinking during a round? Have a Long Island Iced Tea while waiting for Ben Crane to putt out?

like i said, as long as its within the confines of the law people should be allowed to do what they want.

maybe you should post a point of your own rather than attacking mine.


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#201 WilCox

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:31 PM

View PostSplitter, on 07 February 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

View Postscratchswinger, on 07 February 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

I have one simple question for the people defending this "non rule' of allowing PGA players to smoke during tournaments. Would you feel the same way if Rickie Fowler rather than SL was smoking during PGA Tour tournaments and if it was broadcast on National TV? Would that still be acceptable?
I'm going to cop out a little on this one, because I don't have to make the choice, but the answer seems easy;If Rickie Fowler smoked on TV, he would not be Rickie Fowler.  He would be some hotshot kid without a giant PUMA endorsement who didn't get any airtime because he did average but wasn't winning.  And Puma would never put their money into a kid who smoked on TV because they would feel it gave their brand a negative image.  And they would be right.  I think Spencer looks like a tool walking down the fairway with a smoke, I just don't want it banned.  Rickie would have the right to smoke and sponsors would have the right not to give him FAT $$$.  He would be Spencer Levine.:)


His name is Levin.  You sound like a tool when you can't spell the name of the person you're criticizing for not living up to your personal standards.

Edited by WilCox, 07 February 2012 - 01:32 PM.

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#202 Timothy Q

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:34 PM

I'll be the first to admit that if Fowler was smoking out there MANY kids might take up smoking because of it... and I don't care. Those same kids may very well have taken the habit up after seeing a movie star do it... or the cool kid at school. I'm tired of having to police EVERYTHING to "protect the children". Kids exist in the real world where real humans smoke in front of them... and say bad words... and boobies happen. If you think you have shielded them from all of that you're delusional. For every time they have seen a golfer smoke on the course there are hundreds of times where their peers try to get them to do something worse. If that is news to you, your kid is probably already smoking and drinking and you don't even know it.

Personally, I was witness to EVERYTHING OFTEN as a kid... poor parenting was the culprit and yet, I have never smoked or had a drink. Why? I just never wanted to even though Axl Rose was a god to me as a kid. Go figure.

#203 spencer096

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:42 PM

View PostTimothy Q, on 07 February 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I'll be the first to admit that if Fowler was smoking out there MANY kids might take up smoking because of it... and I don't care. Those same kids may very well have taken the habit up after seeing a movie star do it... or the cool kid at school. I'm tired of having to police EVERYTHING to "protect the children". Kids exist in the real world where real humans smoke in front of them... and say bad words... and boobies happen. If you think you have shielded them from all of that you're delusional. For every time they have seen a golfer smoke on the course there are hundreds of times where their peers try to get them to do something worse. If that is news to you, your kid is probably already smoking and drinking and you don't even know it.

Personally, I was witness to EVERYTHING OFTEN as a kid... poor parenting was the culprit and yet, I have never smoked or had a drink. Why? I just never wanted to even though Axl Rose was a god to me as a kid. Go figure.

well said..."and boobies happen" def got a lol.

humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years.  our species has survived plagues, wars, weather related disasters, animals, in space, underwater, etc...i think we'll be alright.  

hate to use another bill hicks quote (no i don't) but...

Quote

"This for all you non-smokers out there, you and you only, because I know for a fact that you don't know this. Ready? Non-smokers die every day."


#204 Pepperturbo

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:42 PM

View Postavidshotmaker, on 07 February 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:


i appreciate this post. its nice to hear objective views once in a while. I am not sure if you are responding to my OP or kind of addressing the overall discussion that has been going on here. I agree its not the worse thing in the world to smoke a cigarette while golfing. And yes I myself live thousands of miles away from

Phoenix. Am I offended by Spencer smoking, not at all. I don't blame him. He has the right to smoke. But what I disagree is that people's fundamental flaw in their arguments is that these players are out playing for recreation. This is their job, they play for a paycheck. When they sign contracts with sponsors their job is to represent their company and their product. These players dont have a right to smoke while on the job, they are allowed to by the PGA. Yes most companies give employees smoking breaks but if a surgeon has a surgery that is 8 hours can he just tell everyone he will be right back he needs to go out for drag.

And I actually agree with you about advertisers, the sad fact of the matter is it comes down to money, to an extent. I mean you dont see the Marlborough Open or Philip Morris Classic. There's a reason for that,

it gives a bad message. I feel the reason they dont care about the smoking on the course is because they don't see it hurting them monetarily wise. When/If it does then I'm sure you will see a different reaction.

And to the people who say kids aren't influenced by seeing players smoke. When Tiger became a pro golfer

and saw him bring the training aspect of the game, how many kids did he influence then. Look at all these young kids joining the tour now, they are bombing the hell out the ball winning tournaments and they all work out and take care of themselves because that is what Tiger did. Now put a cigarette in Tiger's hand and if he could still achieve the accomplishments he has while being a smoker I can guarantee you you would see alot more of these young players smoking.

Now Spencer Levin is not nearly as influential as Tiger, but don't tell me smoking on tour does not have an influence on these young kids who someday want to be a pro golfer.

I suspect you've never owned a company or had to contend with HR laws and rules, or been the best role model you could be, and still watch your son go off the deep end.  Most businesses owners do not decide employees can't smoke.  Insurance policy holders and building owners decide, typically in conjunction with city laws.  And, your surgeon comparison is ludicrous.  Doctors (I know one that smokes) with hospital rights accepts the hospitals NO smoking environment, just like you and I accept NOT using our cell phones in those hospitals, except in designated areas.  

A golfer walking down a fairway "outside", as an independent contractor, makes his own decision.  He does NOT work for the PGA.  And, its one thing using Tiger as an example, it's another using an unknown golfer that isn't remotely equal in role-model influence.  One thing we don't see is adolescents clamoring in support of Woody or a slew of other tour golfers.  

Here's a good question - Ricky Fowler and his family are Christians.  No where are his values or moral beliefs publicized.  Using your line of thinking, how many adolescents might look to Christianity if they knew????  
What I'll conceded is adolescents that don't have "two" pro-active parents guiding them, might see smoking as cool.
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#205 Solutions Etcetera

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:43 PM

View PostTimothy Q, on 07 February 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I'll be the first to admit that if Fowler was smoking out there MANY kids might take up smoking because of it... and I don't care. Those same kids may very well have taken the habit up after seeing a movie star do it... or the cool kid at school. I'm tired of having to police EVERYTHING to "protect the children". Kids exist in the real world where real humans smoke in front of them... and say bad words... and boobies happen. If you think you have shielded them from all of that you're delusional. For every time they have seen a golfer smoke on the course there are hundreds of times where their peers try to get them to do something worse. If that is news to you, your kid is probably already smoking and drinking and you don't even know it.

Personally, I was witness to EVERYTHING OFTEN as a kid... poor parenting was the culprit and yet, I have never smoked or had a drink. Why? I just never wanted to even though Axl Rose was a god to me as a kid. Go figure.

+1


#206 Splitter

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:45 PM

View PostWilCox, on 07 February 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:



His name is Levin.  You sound like a tool when you can't spell the name of the person you're criticizing for not living up to your personal standards.

Ya, that hooked on phonics course I have always gets me with the "e" at the end. :(

If you take the time to look back through my posts you would see I defend his right to smoke on TV.  I just think that doing so makes him look bad.  Really bad.  Apparently bad enough for some people to want him not to even have a chance to smoke on the course at all.

But, I'm sure Levin would think my swing makes me look like a tool so we're probably even without you helping.

BTW...  If smoking on TV and adding an "e" on the end of someones name are the same things to you, may I humbly suggest a bottle of perspectiv?

#207 Ballhound

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:47 PM

Have you ever seen professional league darts from the UK.  Thats about the only other sport allowing smoking (along with drinking alcohol) I can think of while play is televised.  Its in Europe mind you, with a whole other cultural history.  Smoking just cheapens the PGA tour.  My 16 year old daughter mentioned Spencer lighting up and seemed a little shocked as she views golf as a gentlemens game which polices itself without the problems of other professional sports. In the last 10 years or so most States have banned smoking from public places such as sports stadiums, restaurants and even bars, not to mention the work place.  Like a few have mentioned, its only a matter of time that smoking is banned from the PGA tour.

#208 Potatohead

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:48 PM

View Postspencer096, on 07 February 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

View PostBellyhungry, on 07 February 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

People get all up in arms when smoking is shown on TV but hardly any uproar when violence is shown on TV every hour. Plus it seems like binge drinking is celebrated.

they can show the opening scene from saving private ryan unedited, but can't show a woman's breasts or the middle finger or say the S-word.  

blows my mind.

So many things make no sense. You cannot hire someone to have sex with you, but if you have a permit and a video camera, it's ok.

:crazy:

#209 DevilGolfer

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:49 PM

View PostThrillhouse, on 07 February 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

View PostDevilGolfer, on 07 February 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

View PostThrillhouse, on 06 February 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

View Postscratchswinger, on 06 February 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, how many nonsmokers think smoking should be allowed?

It's just a matter of time before it gets banned. It's disgusting, sends a horrible message and a performance enhancer (calming effect/stress reliever). Nothing good comes from allowing it.

I do, I think that people should be allowed to do what they want within the confines of the law. Smoking is legal, therefore I think that Spencer should be allowed to make his own choices.
Drinking beer and alcohol is okay at golf tournaments. So I'm assuming that you're okay with them drinking during a round? Have a Long Island Iced Tea while waiting for Ben Crane to putt out?

like i said, as long as its within the confines of the law people should be allowed to do what they want.

maybe you should post a point of your own rather than attacking mine.
I was asking a simple question that you are dodging with a vague answer. Since it's within the law, you're 100% fine with players drinking beer and having cocktails through out the round.

#210 spencer096

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:49 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 07 February 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

View Postavidshotmaker, on 07 February 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

i appreciate this post. its nice to hear objective views once in a while. I am not sure if you are responding to my OP or kind of addressing the overall discussion that has been going on here. I agree its not the worse thing in the world to smoke a cigarette while golfing. And yes I myself live thousands of miles away from

Phoenix. Am I offended by Spencer smoking, not at all. I don't blame him. He has the right to smoke. But what I disagree is that people's fundamental flaw in their arguments is that these players are out playing for recreation. This is their job, they play for a paycheck. When they sign contracts with sponsors their job is to represent their company and their product. These players dont have a right to smoke while on the job, they are allowed to by the PGA. Yes most companies give employees smoking breaks but if a surgeon has a surgery that is 8 hours can he just tell everyone he will be right back he needs to go out for drag.

And I actually agree with you about advertisers, the sad fact of the matter is it comes down to money, to an extent. I mean you dont see the Marlborough Open or Philip Morris Classic. There's a reason for that,

it gives a bad message. I feel the reason they dont care about the smoking on the course is because they don't see it hurting them monetarily wise. When/If it does then I'm sure you will see a different reaction.

And to the people who say kids aren't influenced by seeing players smoke. When Tiger became a pro golfer

and saw him bring the training aspect of the game, how many kids did he influence then. Look at all these young kids joining the tour now, they are bombing the hell out the ball winning tournaments and they all work out and take care of themselves because that is what Tiger did. Now put a cigarette in Tiger's hand and if he could still achieve the accomplishments he has while being a smoker I can guarantee you you would see alot more of these young players smoking.

Now Spencer Levin is not nearly as influential as Tiger, but don't tell me smoking on tour does not have an influence on these young kids who someday want to be a pro golfer.

I suspect you've never owned a company or had to contend with HR laws and rules, or been the best role model you could be, and still watch your son go off the deep end.  Most businesses owners do not decide employees can't smoke.  Insurance policy holders and building owners decide, typically in conjunction with city laws.  And, your surgeon comparison is ludicrous.  Doctors (I know one that smokes) with hospital rights accepts the hospitals NO smoking environment, just like you and I accept NOT using our cell phones in those hospitals, except in designated areas.  

A golfer walking down a fairway "outside", as an independent contractor, makes his own decision.  He does NOT work for the PGA.  And, its one thing using Tiger as an example, it's another using an unknown golfer that isn't remotely equal in role-model influence.  One thing we don't see is adolescents clamoring in support of Woody or a slew of other tour golfers.  

Here's a good question - Ricky Fowler and his family are Christians.  No where are his values or moral beliefs publicized.  Using your line of thinking, how many adolescents might look to Christianity if they knew????  
What I'll conceded is adolescents that don't have "two" pro-active parents guiding them, might see smoking as cool.


reminds me great frank zappa quote for some reason...

Quote

Take the Kama Sutra. How many people died from the Kama Sutra, as opposed to the Bible? Who wins?


there are those of us that believe religion is every bit as dangerous as any drug or vice or profanity...though that's probably an argument that doesn't need to be delved into here.


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