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Squish n turn


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#511 Breeves85

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:02 AM

View Postblind as a bat, on 28 July 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

I had my second go tonight and acually have a video of my infantile transition from my old swing to this method. I am not sure how to post video, but the video has helped me immensely. I am still hitting at what I consider my 50% speed, but my distance with my 7 iron has gone from 140 to 170. I still have much work to do. I am happy to report that my back hurts way less than with the old method that I was using. Anyone here care to explain to me how to upload my video?

Don't do the quick post at the bottom of the discussion page. Go to the full post menu. You can either copy and paste a link to the post itself or attach a file. To attach a file below the post box there is a buttom called "attach file", hit that button and you can go through all your saved files and add one to the post.


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#512 blind as a bat

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:20 PM

Thanks, Breeves85! I have tried twice. Both times I get the error that I am not allowed to upload this type of file. It is a 4MB .wmf file....

#513 Breeves85

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:09 PM

blindbat, have you tried uploading it on youtube and pasting the link to a post? You may also have to convert it as well to a different format.

#514 blind as a bat

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:08 PM

Perhaps this will work. Here it is for what it is worth....


#515 word

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:32 PM

this thread has taken a really strange turn


#516 CourtJester

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:58 PM

OK, I finally put all the info in this thread into action with some 56 degree work in the yard.

Normally my 56 degree goes super high but not a very far distance.

The major difference I can tell already from my old action is that my 56 still has plenty of altitude but is going much, much further.  Every swing has that 'click' off the club face, almost as if it was hit a bit thin but then I look and it's soaring over the tree line and rocketing foward.  The 90 degree strong left hand felt very weird at first, as did the inward heel and playing the 56 so close to my front foot (my normal action has the 56 center or slightly back of center), but after a couple of swings I was getting some unreal ball flights with such easy swings.

I will have to go through the full range of clubs at the range to really be able to tell a difference, but from what I have seen (and felt) so far, I'm really going to like this action.

I would like to thank Squish and all the other contributors to this thread, there is some really solid info present here!

Edited by CourtJester, 29 July 2012 - 06:15 PM.


#517 CourtJester

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:12 AM

For your consideration:

Posted Image

I found this and edited from a previous poster describing this as a "hip hike".  They are, in fact, one in the same.

Edited by CourtJester, 30 July 2012 - 04:13 AM.


#518 Squish

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:56 AM

View Postword, on 29 July 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

this thread has taken a really strange turn

Kinda getting creepy......

Yes, but "can't buy a swing" means buying forgiveness, more loft or devices.
Maybe save a few strokes that way but that doesn't solve the cause or issue.
You can however buy a Pro's (which I am not), time, guidance and philosophy.
I just write what I discovered and what I feel worked for me.
It is not Austin's method or anyone's.
Just explaining my results using others concepts.

Edited by Squish, 30 July 2012 - 05:20 AM.


#519 Squish

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 05:31 AM

View PostCourtJester, on 29 July 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

OK, I finally put all the info in this thread into action with some 56 degree work in the yard.

Normally my 56 degree goes super high but not a very far distance.

The major difference I can tell already from my old action is that my 56 still has plenty of altitude but is going much, much further.  Every swing has that 'click' off the club face, almost as if it was hit a bit thin but then I look and it's soaring over the tree line and rocketing foward.  The 90 degree strong left hand felt very weird at first, as did the inward heel and playing the 56 so close to my front foot (my normal action has the 56 center or slightly back of center), but after a couple of swings I was getting some unreal ball flights with such easy swings.

I will have to go through the full range of clubs at the range to really be able to tell a difference, but from what I have seen (and felt) so far, I'm really going to like this action.

I would like to thank Squish and all the other contributors to this thread, there is some really solid info present here!

I like it. That click you hear is the sweet spot contact resonating through the shaft. It is singing.
You are doing something right, without seeing a video and guessing would be unfair to analyze.
But I had the same experience, hearing, feeling that sound.

That hip hike is done simultaneous with drawing back the knee of the left leg, bringing the leg into extension.
The right will flex and the weight of the upper will be over the ball of the right foot.
Get the feeling of keeping the head still back there while swinging the hands and arms under it.
Go at the ball, and let the right shoulder bring you up out of it.

#520 eventdriven

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:16 AM

Squish, long time listener, first time caller.  First time posting at all in fact. :) I have been soaking up most of your posts and threads here and on Kelvin's site as well, and would like to say first that I am grateful for your generosity and dedication to golf.  I think its great, and I hope this thread heads back towards the path of just improving people's golf and away from all the rest of the nonsense.

So to the matter at hand, I wonder if you could take a look at a few of my swings and let me know where you think I can improve (and what if anything I am doing right).  I feel the squish in my left QL on the takeaway, and feel like at times I can get my left shoulder over my right heel.  When I do that I feel like I can get planted there.  

I feel like I am struggling with initiating the downswing with the right QL crunch though, and as a result still struggling with some lateral hip movement and a  weak post on my left leg.  

Some background and my own observations:
My general ball flight is a push/slice, hence what I feel like is a very strong grip to try to keep that under control.  
I tend to hit a bit fat rather than thin.  
Down the line views show some pretty significant hip extension toward the ball at impact that I have never been able to rectify.
In looking at the videos myself, it also seems like I see a distinct hip stall and recoil around impact.  I sort of feel that in my arms as well near impact, and see it on video, it just doesn't look or feel smooth through impact to extension.  Out of a 100 balls at the range I manage to get just a handful where I really do feel an un-arrested turn all the way through the ball and I really do just effortlessly crush those.  That feeling is so sweet, but very few and far between unfortunately... Here are 3 swings that had good results at least.



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#521 Squish

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:31 AM

View Postblind as a bat, on 29 July 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Perhaps this will work. Here it is for what it is worth....


Blind,
So much good there to view.
I like the inclination and the swing of the spine, and you are keeping the kneecaps back.
Very balanced.
Of course you get it, as you have an injured spine and need to baby it by letting it swing.
You are hitting an iron and keeping more weight on the ball of the left foot on the uptake that is great.
Stance is too wide and it makes it look like a reverse pivot, but it is not.
I would shorten the stance to 12 to 15 inches.

Attached File  Blind top.png   95.24K   2 downloads
The start down
Here is where you should draw the left knee into full extension while flexing the right.
It will apply the free ride into impact immediately from the top.

Attached File  Blind dive.png   65.44K   3 downloads
Here you are diving from the top and C7 is advancing just a little.
The left leg should be completly straight right here.
That would raise the left shoulder and allow the right hip to swing into the ball.
Because you keep the knees back so well have no fear of humping.
Your swing of the center of gravity is well directed.

All I would work on for now is getting that left knee to extension from the top as you compress the right side.
The entire hands arms assembly will swing to impact under the head as a unit.
Nice action.

Edited by Squish, 30 July 2012 - 12:50 PM.


#522 Underpar33

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:44 AM

Hi squish. I Don't know if you read kelvins latest article or not regarding the left side dropping in apt in transition, but I got some feedback that I was dropping the left side into apt too early in the backswing. I went out on the range yesterday and had such an unproductive session working on this. It felt great getting into an opening left leg and apt earlier and swinging thru the ball staying more centered/even feeling like I stayed on my right side(freeing the left hip to clear)

When I've tried to delay the left side apt/drop I have ended up sliding again can't stay back to the target long enough. Any thoughts on this move with the spine?  Do I need to change the way my spine works in the backswing to allow this move to occur in transition instead of mid backswing?

#523 Squish

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:25 AM

View PostUnderpar33, on 30 July 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Hi squish. I Don't know if you read kelvins latest article or not regarding the left side dropping in apt in transition, but I got some feedback that I was dropping the left side into apt too early in the backswing. I went out on the range yesterday and had such an unproductive session working on this. It felt great getting into an opening left leg and apt earlier and swinging thru the ball staying more centered/even feeling like I stayed on my right side(freeing the left hip to clear)

When I've tried to delay the left side apt/drop I have ended up sliding again can't stay back to the target long enough. Any thoughts on this move with the spine?  Do I need to change the way my spine works in the backswing to allow this move to occur in transition instead of mid backswing?

This is more like the action of James Braid winner of five opens circa 1905.
Long before the days of carbon-fibre and titanium clubs, Braid held the world record for the longest drive. That distance was measured in 1905, at Walton Heath in England, as 395 yards. And he made it look easy, using what looks like an awesomely awkward club of hickory and  with ‘gutty’ balls. Over a hundred years later, very few golfers of the modern era, equipped with their state-of-the-art drivers and aerodynamic balls have ever beaten that distance of Braid’s.
It is far removed from a hip turn driven swing. The power generated in this type of swing comes from the hands and arms.
The direction and trajectory comes from the pivot, COG and hip swing.

A hip slide bump rotational swing requires a stronger grip when one slides.
But this swing requires a neutral grip.

There are three moves that must be blended in this type of swing.

The first of the three is a lateral swing of the spine along the heel line.
The ankles and knees keep it swinging on a straight from and to the target. I mean swinging the tailbone and hip directly from and to the target.
Not clearing the left hip. It is held back on that line by drawing the knees in keeping them over the feet.

The second, is the swing of the detached hip around the posted legs.
Because the leg is brought to extension the hip rests atop the femur bone ball and socket joint due to the lateral swing.
The detached hip swings toward the ball but rotates, as it must, as it is going around the posted opposite hip resting on the femur.
That hip swing turns or indexes the abducted shoulders that are wound at the top.
to impact.

The third is the shoulder turn hands arm assembly as a unit.

So it is a way different concept.
The thing I could not get used to in the traditionally accepted swing is that when I press I would push or hook.
The other is when I really wanted to bang one, I would get quick with the hips over turning.

All that disappeared when I found the pendulum action of the spine and a steady head position, Nothing hurt.
I just keep the head over the right foot and swing the arms and hands under it.
The body reacts in balance as it knows the COG and balance.
So you learn by feel, balance and timing vs, positional golfswing.

With this type, the positioning is done and over with at setup, because one is swinging and indexing vs turning.

Edited by Squish, 30 July 2012 - 08:04 AM.


#524 Squish

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:26 AM

View Posteventdriven, on 30 July 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

Squish, long time listener, first time caller.  First time posting at all in fact. :) I have been soaking up most of your posts and threads here and on Kelvin's site as well, and would like to say first that I am grateful for your generosity and dedication to golf.  I think its great, and I hope this thread heads back towards the path of just improving people's golf and away from all the rest of the nonsense.

So to the matter at hand, I wonder if you could take a look at a few of my swings and let me know where you think I can improve (and what if anything I am doing right).  I feel the squish in my left QL on the takeaway, and feel like at times I can get my left shoulder over my right heel.  When I do that I feel like I can get planted there.  

I feel like I am struggling with initiating the downswing with the right QL crunch though, and as a result still struggling with some lateral hip movement and a  weak post on my left leg.  

Some background and my own observations:
My general ball flight is a push/slice, hence what I feel like is a very strong grip to try to keep that under control.  
I tend to hit a bit fat rather than thin.  
Down the line views show some pretty significant hip extension toward the ball at impact that I have never been able to rectify.
In looking at the videos myself, it also seems like I see a distinct hip stall and recoil around impact.  I sort of feel that in my arms as well near impact, and see it on video, it just doesn't look or feel smooth through impact to extension.  Out of a 100 balls at the range I manage to get just a handful where I really do feel an un-arrested turn all the way through the ball and I really do just effortlessly crush those.  That feeling is so sweet, but very few and far between unfortunately... Here are 3 swings that had good results at least.



I will look at this at home on the mac, so far I see spongy leg work.
Can you post a DTL?
Never Mind I found one on the you tube site.

Read the post to underpar33.
There isn't much to this as in micro moves.
That stuff happens in a good swing.

At address lock the kneecaps back, bend over to the ball, and only flex the knees a tiny 1/2 inch.
Alternately draw them knees back from there, don't poke them out to the flight line during the swing.
They will come out on their own as the COG laterally swings. Feel tall in the legs, supporting the upper body throughout.
That way you can stay bent over turning the upper assembly into impact from inside out with the squish.
The left hip will swing straight to the target as you strike the ball.
The swing of the right hip to the ball will drop the shoulder plane inside out as you do this.
Same on the backswing. Everything, all three moves, must be done simultaneous.
A different feel.

Edited by Squish, 30 July 2012 - 08:43 AM.


#525 Squish

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 09:20 AM

A note about the lateral front hip swing to the target.

At impact the left hip will feel like it is closing, keeping you inside out.
But the right hip will be turning on and around the extended (but not locked back) left leg femur head.
The head will be back over the right toe line.
There will be a hip snap, a secondary right hip thrust into where the ball was after the ball is gone.


#526 cjaguirre74

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:13 AM

View PostSquish, on 27 July 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Well number 1,2,3, can be sloved with a reverse K position.
Kicking in the right knee at address with the heel slightly off the ground.
That would automatically position the hands and left arm ahead.hips will open a bit against squre shoulders. That would be good.
The strong left for an Iron because you play it back is good. The driver, want neutral left, because it is played forward.
Strong left when it's played back.

Stance is fine, 12-15 inches, you have a super level  shoulder turn.

Now here is the thing. It is the COG, it is centered but not dynamicaly distributed properly.
Leg work can solve it. At take away you take it back around and against planted right.
The right leg remains in flexion as the arms roll up to the top, while you complete the shoulder turn.
From the top, 7C moves targetward as you post left.
You hit with a turn of the hips as you swing down to the ball. But you are not swinging the hip into impact, you are swinging it from impact where there is no travel left to swing.
Because of this foreward slide and turning hips, the strong left hand is necessary to compensate as the swing arc has advanced.
The face otherwise would be open.
You swing the hip foreward from the centered COG line through impact kinda forcing you to stand up out of it early.
You are makin love to that ball instead of hitting the heck out of it.

Number 5 is the answer.
At take away keep the knees over the shoe laces like you do, that is a great relaxed posture, you can see it in your setup.
This is key. Instead of locking the rear leg in flexion and jutting the left knee over the toeline.
Draw the rear leg into extension, almost locking the kneecap back, letting the right hip to swing lateral along the heel line.
The flexed left will swing  to the right on a line over the ball of the foot line.
Let the shoulder turn the hip to the top, very little turn till the shoulders stop. A one piece take away,by drawing the rear leg into extension, will take the club back with the indexing torso 70*.
Roll up the arms from there.
You should be able to stay at the top, remove the left hand while holding the club up with the right then place the fingers of the left hand on the outside of the right knee.
That says you maintained a proper forward inclination to the top.

Now from there you are going to get all theway to impact with one simultanious move.
From the top, compress the right side by raising the hip as you allow the rump to swing on a straight line to the left heel.
It is important to draw the left knee cap back allowing the left to go into full extension.
You will have allowed the entire upper assembly to swing arriving at impact position extending through.
Should be able to touch the fingers of the right hand to the outside of the left knee.

So it's the crazy legs more than anything causing the power leak.
Try to keep the knees traveling above the shoelaces not only at seup but supporting the swing.

This is major, you will crush it using those arms and hands from the top straight to the inside of the ball on the diagonal.
Extend the knees you will have a wider clear swing path.

Then you will have to weaken the grip.

I am shure you know all this as your analyzation  is correct.
Just saying what I would do. Don't flex into the ball, extend the leg and swing through.

Hey Squish, I just wanted to thank you for your reply, I didnt have the time to really go through it this weekend. I'm going to start working on it this week, thanks again for your time.

#527 eventdriven

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

Quote


I will look at this at home on the mac, so far I see spongy leg work.
Can you post a DTL?
Never Mind I found one on the you tube site.

Read the post to underpar33.
There isn't much to this as in micro moves.
That stuff happens in a good swing.

At address lock the kneecaps back, bend over to the ball, and only flex the knees a tiny 1/2 inch.
Alternately draw them knees back from there, don't poke them out to the flight line during the swing.
They will come out on their own as the COG laterally swings. Feel tall in the legs, supporting the upper body throughout.
That way you can stay bent over turning the upper assembly into impact from inside out with the squish.
The left hip will swing straight to the target as you strike the ball.
The swing of the right hip to the ball will drop the shoulder plane inside out as you do this.
Same on the backswing. Everything, all three moves, must be done simultaneous.
A different feel.

Thanks Squish.  I will take these thoughts to the simulator tonight at the gym and see what I can really understand :)  Thanks again!

Underpar33, what is apt?  Something related to the pelvic tilt mentioned in kelvin's article?

#528 Underpar33

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:43 AM

View Posteventdriven, on 30 July 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Quote


I will look at this at home on the mac, so far I see spongy leg work.
Can you post a DTL?
Never Mind I found one on the you tube site.

Read the post to underpar33.
There isn't much to this as in micro moves.
That stuff happens in a good swing.

At address lock the kneecaps back, bend over to the ball, and only flex the knees a tiny 1/2 inch.
Alternately draw them knees back from there, don't poke them out to the flight line during the swing.
They will come out on their own as the COG laterally swings. Feel tall in the legs, supporting the upper body throughout.
That way you can stay bent over turning the upper assembly into impact from inside out with the squish.
The left hip will swing straight to the target as you strike the ball.
The swing of the right hip to the ball will drop the shoulder plane inside out as you do this.
Same on the backswing. Everything, all three moves, must be done simultaneous.
A different feel.

Thanks Squish.  I will take these thoughts to the simulator tonight at the gym and see what I can really understand :)  Thanks again!

Underpar33, what is apt?  Something related to the pelvic tilt mentioned in kelvin's article?

Anterior Pelvic Tilt.

#529 blind as a bat

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:28 PM

Thanks, Squish. I was definitely too wide in my stance. I have to work on ball position too. I had the opportunity to play a round today and it took me about 6 holes to adjust my club choices. I am hitting about 1 1/2 clubs further now than I was before and with an easier swing. My GIR are up too. Sure is freeing to play a round and not have to lie on a heating pad afterwards!

#530 CourtJester

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 09:31 PM

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!


I finally put all of the information in this thread into a range session and 18 holes of Par 3.

Absolutely INCREDIBLE is how I would described this new action compared to my old action.


At the start of the session, I was hitting everything thin and could not figure out why.  Eventually it dawned on me that my backswing was not going back far enough, basically I was not letting my shoulder, arm and wrist take it completely to the top, which was causing my hips to severely outrace my upper body on the downswing.  I had to shorten my backswing in my previous swing action to be able to maintain any sort of decent contact.

Once I started letting my backswing finish at the top I started CRUSHING absolutely everything with an incredible draw on it, whereas my previous shot shape was a fade.

Pure shot after pure shot, the ball clicking off the clubface and taking off like a spaceship.  I could not believe it, I thought "Surely this must be a fluke there is no way it this easy to hit pure shots".
So I decided to play 18 holes of Par 3 with my Dad.

Basically, it was even better on actual golf holes.  I was hitting every club 1 or 1 1/2 clubs longer than I was just a couple of hours earlier.  Where I would normally hit a 9i, it would be a smooth PW.  Where I used to hit a PW, it would be a soft GW.

The most incredible feeling that I came out with was the fact that I finally was able to have a smooth tempo swing with every club but then also be able to reach back for a little more heat and still be able to hit the sweetspot of the club.


I know I have plenty of work to do, as I have not yet worked on fading the ball or hitting knockdowns with this action but the base from which I can start is UNREAL.  Also, I still had the random pull or push, or slightly thin shot.  The base from which I have to work though gives me the confidence I can fine tune the action to something close to machine like.


Again, I would like to thank Squish and every other person who was contributed to this thread.  If one takes the time to read and truly understand the information presented here, it is simply a Golfing gold mine, filled with some real world, usable knowledge.  I'm sure I will have plenty of questions from here out as this has re-invigorated my desire to improve my game.



As one last note, the "squish" move is so simple that you can literally practice it while lying in bed.

Edited by CourtJester, 30 July 2012 - 09:43 PM.


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#531 Squish

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:41 AM

View Postblind as a bat, on 30 July 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Thanks, Squish. I was definitely too wide in my stance. I have to work on ball position too. I had the opportunity to play a round today and it took me about 6 holes to adjust my club choices. I am hitting about 1 1/2 clubs further now than I was before and with an easier swing. My GIR are up too. Sure is freeing to play a round and not have to lie on a heating pad afterwards!

Now you are swinging.
The cardinal rule in this or any other swing is this:
In the downswing, never let your center of balance get ahead of your center of gravity.

#532 Squish

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 06:16 AM

View PostCourtJester, on 30 July 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!


I finally put all of the information in this thread into a range session and 18 holes of Par 3.

Absolutely INCREDIBLE is how I would described this new action compared to my old action.


At the start of the session, I was hitting everything thin and could not figure out why.  Eventually it dawned on me that my backswing was not going back far enough, basically I was not letting my shoulder, arm and wrist take it completely to the top, which was causing my hips to severely outrace my upper body on the downswing.  I had to shorten my backswing in my previous swing action to be able to maintain any sort of decent contact.

Once I started letting my backswing finish at the top I started CRUSHING absolutely everything with an incredible draw on it, whereas my previous shot shape was a fade.

Pure shot after pure shot, the ball clicking off the clubface and taking off like a spaceship.  I could not believe it, I thought "Surely this must be a fluke there is no way it this easy to hit pure shots".
So I decided to play 18 holes of Par 3 with my Dad.

Basically, it was even better on actual golf holes.  I was hitting every club 1 or 1 1/2 clubs longer than I was just a couple of hours earlier.  Where I would normally hit a 9i, it would be a smooth PW.  Where I used to hit a PW, it would be a soft GW.

The most incredible feeling that I came out with was the fact that I finally was able to have a smooth tempo swing with every club but then also be able to reach back for a little more heat and still be able to hit the sweetspot of the club.


I know I have plenty of work to do, as I have not yet worked on fading the ball or hitting knockdowns with this action but the base from which I can start is UNREAL.  Also, I still had the random pull or push, or slightly thin shot.  The base from which I have to work though gives me the confidence I can fine tune the action to something close to machine like.


Again, I would like to thank Squish and every other person who was contributed to this thread.  If one takes the time to read and truly understand the information presented here, it is simply a Golfing gold mine, filled with some real world, usable knowledge.  I'm sure I will have plenty of questions from here out as this has re-invigorated my desire to improve my game.



As one last note, the "squish" move is so simple that you can literally practice it while lying in bed.

"I was not letting my shoulder, arm and wrist take it completely to the top,"

If you let the right hand pressure dominate the take away, the left shoulder will be left behind.
It is good practice to take it away using the left hand to the top, and not put the right hand into the shot till impact.
You discovered this.

"hitting knockdowns"

Keep more weight  of the upper over the ball of the left foot at take away to hit the ball lower.
This will steepen the approach and d-loft the club face at impact.
To hit it higher, more weight of the upper on the ball of the right foot.
It is easier and more assuring to work it dynamically vs static ball placement, as one will tend to reach back or ahead.

#533 LindenH

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 01:26 PM

Got myself a little confused at the range today.... thinking about the 6" then 12" of tailbone travel on the bs and ds respectively.

Anybody got a graphic or visual of the swinging tailbone from takeaway to the top?

...... Or even a clock-based direction of travel :)

#534 Squish

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 02:45 PM

Linden,

It is a beeline from heel to heel.

To isolate that action, place both cheeks of you rump against a wall, incline 30* forward.
Draw the right knee back, to extend the right leg. The pelvis will swing right and feel it is a bit outside the right heel.
The left knee will flex at the same time, you will be posted on the right femur head, settled on the right heel.
Both cheeks will be on the wall.
Now draw the left kneecap back and flex the right. Now you are posted on the left femur head.

You have swung the spine 6 inches to the right from address to post.
When you draw the left knee back you pass address and traveled 12 inches to post left.
Both cheeks remained on the wall.

Now let's add the turn to it, as these actions are done simultanious.
Begin the wall drill again but this time Compress the left side using the QL crunch.
The left cheek will come off the wall, and if you press down on the glute, it and the femur will swing toward the ball.
This action will drop the left shoulder on the plane under the chin to the top of the swing with a shoulder turn.

The big idea is not to retract the glutes. They will retro on their own as result of the shoulder turn.
The posts are posts, the left hip does the turning around the right.
The right turns around the left.

You don't swing and tilt the jamb to close the door.
You want those posts stationary allowing the hips to swing.
But, you can torque those posts.
I torque the left tibia and fibula inward (clockwise) as I swing the tailbone
on the beeline to post left. I hit into a firm left leg.
That keeps C7 stationary.

Edited by Squish, 31 July 2012 - 03:09 PM.


#535 Breeves85

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 02:48 PM

View PostLindenH, on 31 July 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Got myself a little confused at the range today.... thinking about the 6" then 12" of tailbone travel on the bs and ds respectively.

Anybody got a graphic or visual of the swinging tailbone from takeaway to the top?

...... Or even a clock-based direction of travel :)

The 6" and 12 " analogy is where the right hip swings from 4 o'clock to 10 o'clock. That is one of many analogies to perform the action. The Squish of the QL does the swing if you allow it. My little image is to post the left hip directly above the left ankle. If I do that then the right hip swings OUT to the ball, but if my left hip turns behind the ankle then the right hip spins out away from the ball. If you post properly, the trailing hip cannot spin, it has to swing out becaust your left side won't let it do anything else.  The only other thing to remember is it is a crunch or compression of the QL. You have to bring tho lowest rib and hip together by hiking the hip and lowering the rib at the same time in unison. If you do one more than the other, you will hit fat if the rib lowers without raising the hip andhit it thin if you raisethe hip without lowering the 12th rib.


#536 LindenH

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 03:53 PM

View PostSquish, on 31 July 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:



It is a beeline from heel to heel.

To isolate that action, place both cheeks of you rump against a wall, incline 30* forward.
Draw the right knee back, to extend the right leg. The pelvis will swing right and feel it is a bit outside the right heel.
The left knee will flex at the same time, you will be posted on the right femur head, settled on the right heel.
Both cheeks will be on the wall.
Now draw the left kneecap back and flex the right. Now you are posted on the left femur head.

You have swung the spine 6 inches to the right from address to post.
When you draw the left knee back you pass address and traveled 12 inches to post left.
Both cheeks remained on the wall.


This is sort of like scratching an itch across the width of your rump against a wall..... kind of rocking the knees, whilst keeping C7 steady?

View PostSquish, on 31 July 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Now let's add the turn to it, as these actions are done simultanious.
Begin the wall drill again but this time Compress the left side using the QL crunch.
The left cheek will come off the wall, and if you press down on the glute, it and the femur will swing toward the ball.
This action will drop the left shoulder on the plane under the chin to the top of the swing with a shoulder turn.

The big idea is not to retract the glutes. They will retro on their own as result of the shoulder turn.
The posts are posts, the left hip does the turning around the right.
The right turns around the left.

You don't swing and tilt the jamb to close the door.
You want those posts stationary allowing the hips to swing.
But, you can torque those posts.
I torque the left tibia and fibula inward (clockwise) as I swing the tailbone
on the beeline to post left. I hit into a firm left leg.
That keeps C7 stationary.

Got it.... I'll work on it.

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond ... really appreciate it.

#537 LindenH

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 04:10 PM

View PostBreeves85, on 31 July 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

View PostLindenH, on 31 July 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Got myself a little confused at the range today.... thinking about the 6" then 12" of tailbone travel on the bs and ds respectively.

Anybody got a graphic or visual of the swinging tailbone from takeaway to the top?

...... Or even a clock-based direction of travel :)

The 6" and 12 " analogy is where the right hip swings from 4 o'clock to 10 o'clock. That is one of many analogies to perform the action. The Squish of the QL does the swing if you allow it. My little image is to post the left hip directly above the left ankle. If I do that then the right hip swings OUT to the ball, but if my left hip turns behind the ankle then the right hip spins out away from the ball. If you post properly, the trailing hip cannot spin, it has to swing out becaust your left side won't let it do anything else.  The only other thing to remember is it is a crunch or compression of the QL. You have to bring tho lowest rib and hip together by hiking the hip and lowering the rib at the same time in unison. If you do one more than the other, you will hit fat if the rib lowers without raising the hip andhit it thin if you raisethe hip without lowering the 12th rib.

So, standing on a clock face, (assuming square to target hips) through the takeaway to the top, my right hip moves from 3 to 4o'clock because I'm posting on my right because of the tailbone swing and torso turn.  Then from transition, the hips travel on the line towards 10o'clock.... obviously they only travel towards 10 for a short distance because the pivot takes over and moves the whole hip package around the left post.



#538 Squish

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:06 PM

Very short distance,
because as the club hits the ball the right hip swing directs the blow supporting the shoulder plane.

Keep this in mind from the top,
Torque the left tibia and fibula inward (clockwise) as you swing the tailbone on the beeline to post left.
Hit into a firm left leg. You will feel as the shoulders are on one track and the tailbone on the other.
That will keep C7still.
You will finish perfectly balanced.

I like the simplified Austin 4-10 o'clock thing, because it happens.

But i want the feel, the weight transference, and the center of gravity controlling the swing.
That gets more to the core of it.

#539 Breeves85

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 10:24 PM

Squish is right. The tibia stabalizes the entire left leg from hip to ankle so that the right hip can swing. Squish, I am trying to find someone to shoot my progress . I have improved alot since I asked about the throw. The pivot has improved since I started using the full QL crunch. Ballstriking is crazy good. I haven't heard that whoosh sound that you hear on tv from the pros. Thank you for your knowledge and willingness to share Sir.

#540 Squish

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:13 AM

Because the tibia and fibula are double bone sets they can propel the body.
It is helical, they can twist to throw and direct the center of gravity and provide locomotion using the shear force against the ground.
Torquing keeps them stable, in place, vs bracing or holding the legs against the swing of the COG.
Just bracing or holding or leaning them into position, they tend to rock or sway allowing the top of the spine to move.
If you brace or simply stand, one could knock you over.
If you are torqued into the ground, even the slightest, the muscles are in state of alert tension.
Can't knock you over, the muscles will react.
So it is not a locking high tensity torquing, but more of a balanced, guiding, reactive state of mobile awareness.

Torquing the leg inward gives you something to swing the COG into, and to hit against.

The other two sets are the radius and ulna of the forearm.
They twist and propel or throw the club in a helical manner vs holding their position.
They keep the arms in position via torque, when released they produce the snap.


But hitting into the inward torqued extending left knee, with the COG tailbone swinging to the left heel to post, allows that snap to release.
There is a brief period of relaxation as this occurs through impact. As the raised left hip retros to finish.

Care should be taken to not lock back the left knee.
The left leg must extend vertically, but retain the slight bit of flexion as it rotates.

Edited by Squish, 01 August 2012 - 09:06 AM.


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