1213 replies to this topic

[megaprimatus]

A negative lead angle on driver? Mmm... Is that why certain players set up their hands behind ball at address with driver? (Thanks for the discussion and recent image. Very descriptive.)

Attached Files

•  negative.jpg   31.42K   19 downloads

Edited by megaprimatus, 18 April 2012 - 07:33 AM.

[Squish]

Yes, drivers and hybrids are designed and manufactured  to sweep or hit on the upswing.
This is why a weak left hand is necessary for a driver and a stronger left hand incrementally down to the wedge.
One can then keep the release point radian  the same at the hands position to square the face.
A weak left with the wedge played back (palmar flexed) vs. 90* strong, indexed left hand, will d-loft and push the shot less you change mid release.
It becomes a guessing game. However if one needs more altitude, one can play the wedge and ball forward
using a weak left, as this will add loft. So the farther back one plays it, the stronger the left.
The closer to the front heel the weaker the left.

At Address

 Untitled1.png   30.74K   37 downloads

The right hand never changes, it must remain parallel to the target line.
Pressure at the base of the right fore finger.

Everyone talks of the Loft and Lie but never the Lead angle.
It is a crucial part to obtaining optimal trajectory and consistency.

If the Lead angle is not factored in one is lofting or d-lofting.

I added ball positions.
The entire set of irons PW thru 1iron fit within that 6 inches 1/2 inch increments.
So I let the club in hand dictate my ball position.

But... If one chooses to hit everything from a static ball position one will have to adjust their stance open, closed etc.
For each club Keeping the left and right hand grip constant.

Edited by Squish, 18 April 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[marte]

Thanks for this.  Working on swing indoors at home (haven't been able to get to course yet this year) with foam ball, full pw swing...over the last 2 months...hitting everything off the heel...tried tons of things to correct problem...nothing worked...driving me crazy...until this...Did move ball back a touch in stance (from another thread), strengthened left hand a little and  did the LEFT HEEL MOVE as illustrated.  Never would have thought of trying this myself.  Felt VERY comfortable in set up...and swing after swing was centre of clubface...haven't seen that for a LONG time.   Be a few days yet before hit real balls but am optomistic.  This left heel thing...it would apply to all clubs i'm guessing?

Thanks.  

megaprimatus, on 16 April 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

"So at address I square the toes, then turn the front heel inward. This puts me on my right side behind the ball. With the front foot flared out, the heels are closed. The more you flair the front foot the more closed the stance."

Turn the front heel inward. (Turning the front toe outward would be a different action.)

Mmm... The heels do become closed...

Cool.

Edited by marte, 18 April 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[TheBoomer]

Some good stuff in here.

[Squish]

marte, on 18 April 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Thanks for this.  Working on swing indoors at home (haven't been able to get to course yet this year) with foam ball, full pw swing...over the last 2 months...hitting everything off the heel...tried tons of things to correct problem...nothing worked...driving me crazy...until this...Did move ball back a touch in stance (from another thread), strengthened left hand a little and  did the LEFT HEEL MOVE as illustrated.  Never would have thought of trying this myself.  Felt VERY comfortable in set up...and swing after swing was centre of clubface...haven't seen that for a LONG time.   Be a few days yet before hit real balls but am optomistic.  This left heel thing...it would apply to all clubs i'm guessing?

Hope it works for you, but yes All clubs 12 to 15 inches heel to heel so the spine can naturally swing by itself.

By closing the heels you now have an inside approach.

If one just splays the front foot it sets up a square to inside path. Then they fight geometry and try to drop inside and block or hump.
Closing the heel line sets one up for an inside square approach, because when we start the return to the ball from the top, it begins at the right heel.
Twisting the rear foot to raise it to the inside ball of the foot causing the right hip to swing.
If the weight tends left at address by splaying the left with an open toe line, one tends to come in steep and square as the hips tend to lateral left.
Now one cannot close the face as they will hook.
By closing the heel line and squaring the toes the right hip swings on the diagonal as you squish and turn from the top.
Now one is approaching from low inside to square Now one must square the face.

Staying back, letting the arms extend as you turn it over through impact (using only the right shoulder) ulna deviate both wrists, keep the sole mirroring the ground
you will draw the wedge.

This is important, when one plays ping pong the only move to hit straight is no move. The face of the paddle must travel square to the line.
Any swipe to the right or left will cause the ball to spin.

Edited by Squish, 18 April 2012 - 04:41 PM.

[Squish]

Sorry for the edits but I am in and out of the room.

Edited by Squish, 18 April 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[marte]

Thanks SQUISH  You said..." when we start the return to the ball from the top, it begins at the right heel.
Twisting the rear foot to raise it to the inside ball of the foot causing the right hip to swing."

Not clear on this...the twisting of the rear (right) foot should be in counter clockwise direction?

You also said..."By closing the heel line and squaring the toes the right hip swings on the diagonal as you squish and turn from the top."  I'm sorry, until today I hadn't heard of your methods.  So am not sure what you mean by "squish and turn from the top".  When you say "squish" are you talking about the back (right) heel squishing (pressuring) into the ground as it starts it's twisting motion?

Yea, sorry if I'm not understanding...I've not spent much time exploring the technical aspects of the golf swing.

Thanks.

[Squish]

marte, on 18 April 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

Thanks SQUISH  You said..." when we start the return to the ball from the top, it begins at the right heel.
Twisting the rear foot to raise it to the inside ball of the foot causing the right hip to swing."

Not clear on this...the twisting of the rear (right) foot should be in counter clockwise direction?

You also said..."By closing the heel line and squaring the toes the right hip swings on the diagonal as you squish and turn from the top."  I'm sorry, until today I hadn't heard of your methods.  So am not sure what you mean by "squish and turn from the top".  When you say "squish" are you talking about the back (right) heel squishing (pressuring) into the ground as it starts it's twisting motion?

Yea, sorry if I'm not understanding...I've not spent much time exploring the technical aspects of the golf swing.

Thanks.

Squish is compressing the quadratus lumborum.
If you simultaneously raise the heel and drop the shoulder letting the right hip turn from the top you do it.
If you torque the foot against the turf clockwise the right hip will turn on an inside out path clearing an inside out path for the hands.

If you turn the right foot CCW, one forces a high outside path.
Trick is to stay balanced front to back by drawing the knee caps back shoulders hanging over the toes.
Thats staggital balance.

But it sounds like from your results you are doing it, so don't complicate it.
I am just relating what is happening, it's more important to let it happen from the closed heel stance.

[Ricco]

I understand, I have 10 acres and 500 balls. The heel movement felt strange at first but I'm now flushing it. 7 iron only at this point , slight draw. More on the grip hand placement as the clubs change please. Haven't taken it to the course yet.

[marte]

Regardless of how one swings the club...this closed heel stance should help just about any swing...no?  In my case, I feel my left (front) knee and hip turn much nicer, more freely, both back and through the ball allowing me to stay in much better balance throughout the swing.  Can't wait to try this with real balls.  After about 50 PW swings with my foam  I'm still getting centre or just heel of centre contact on clubface.  Course I can't tell anything about ball flight or how straight my foam is going but it sure feels good.

RICCO...how would you describe your "heel movement" in uh layman's terms ?

[megaprimatus]

The term "squish" refers to "compressing the quadratus lumborum..." Sounds like we need a visual.

Ladies & gentlemen, now presenting the quadratus lumborum.



(Hey, is compressing a muscle the same thing as contracting a muscle?)

Edited by megaprimatus, 18 April 2012 - 08:17 PM.

[Ricco]

I felt really strange doing this and I'm playing good golf right now. I'm 58 and play to a 5. Best in my life. I took over 20 years off from the game and returned about 6 years ago with a vengeance . I am never satisfied and am willing to change my swing if something makes sense. This does to me. Anyway the heel movement was difficult at first. I thought I was pretty flexible but when I tried this the first time my left foot felt paralyzed. Thought I was going to have to reach down and move it. Easy to flair out the left foot, I play that way but to move the heel in was foreign but I did it and I'm thinking about taking this to the course. What I'm really excited about is the driver. I play a 9* and always deloft it at address and play the ball off the inside of my left heel, never occurred to me to use the manufactured loft and let it lay flat. It looks open this way but moved up a bit it will be square. Going fishing for 5 days so will have to wait till I get back. Love this forum and the people on it

[Squish]

marte, on 18 April 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Regardless of how one swings the club...this closed heel stance should help just about any swing...no?  In my case, I feel my left (front) knee and hip turn much nicer, more freely, both back and through the ball allowing me to stay in much better balance throughout the swing.  Can't wait to try this with real balls.  After about 50 PW swings with my foam  I'm still getting centre or just heel of centre contact on clubface.  Course I can't tell anything about ball flight or how straight my foam is going but it sure feels good.

RICCO...how would you describe your "heel movement" in uh layman's terms ?

That's the sweet spot.

In layman's terms it is called walking.
Just raise the right heel and the tailbone, the center of gravity,  will swing left. (Lateral flexion of the spine).
The right heel will lead (eversion) or come out, as the right knees sags due to the hip turn and swing of the spine.
And by the time the weight of the upper body gets left, that ball is gone.

The clockwise twist of the right foot and swing of the spine is purely a positional move. It supplies leverage and direction to the stroke.
The power, comes from a turn of the shoulders back, inside, and a UN-arrested, unblocked return thru.
The release will happen if the timing / position of the body is correct.
That is why it is important keep the knees drawn in for balance, it keeps the glutes behind and maintains the tush line.
The ankles knees and hips keep the wheel of the shoulders turning true on their inclined plane from and to the ball.

Dealing with arcs and circles, so turn back and turn through.
The "swing" happens, due to the detachment of the opposite heel.
So no effort in swinging the center of gravity at the ball. The effort should be in staying balanced.
And that is exactly what you are feeling at this point.

A balanced wheel or top spins true and fast.
Unbalanced, it wobbles and looks like it's turning faster getting wider but in fact it is slowing
as it struggles to find center.

Edited by Squish, 19 April 2012 - 07:03 AM.

[Squish]

megaprimatus, on 18 April 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

(Hey, is compressing a muscle the same thing as contracting a muscle?)

Yes, drawing the twelfth rib and the lilac crest together.
That action detaches the heel and drops the shoulder as a result of the lateral flexion of the spine.

So as you compress the right side the left QL expands.
This is why it is not necessary to  independently drop the arms in the downswing.
Instead, just throw the club out at the ball from inside as you turn.

The weight is transferring from heel to heel through impact.
With closed heels it's an inside out approach.
That's what is making the difference here, IF one stays balanced behind the ball.
Not trying to hit with the body.

Edited by Squish, 19 April 2012 - 07:22 AM.

[megaprimatus]

Superb explanations, Squish. I really enjoyed your most recent graphic. Thanks.

So, regarding the left hand, the weak grip looks strong, and the strong grip looks stronger. What does one use for an index? The right palm seems easy to locate, but the left is trickier. The left palm collapses around the shaft which is confusing.

(Strong on left. Weak on right.)

 strongandweak.jpg   8.89K   11 downloads

Edited by megaprimatus, 19 April 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[Squish]

megaprimatus, on 19 April 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

Superb explanations, Squish. I really enjoyed your most recent graphic. Thanks.

So, regarding the left hand, the weak grip looks strong, and the strong grip looks stronger. What does one use for an index? The right palm seems easy to locate, but the left is trickier. The left palm collapses around the shaft which is confusing.

(Strong on left. Weak on right.)

strongandweak.jpg

Just don't reach back with the left arm to sole the club.
Simply keep the left hand, heel, left ear inline then index the left thumb to the right.

Like you may want a higher trajectory, so only set the 9 iron, or wedge back 2-3 inches vs. 5 1/2 or 6 inches.
Now you only have to index a few degrees.
Instead of the left thumb indexed at 90* it would be 45* which one would use for an optimal 7 iron trajectory.
What I realize is that the farther back th clubhead and ball, the the sooner the face must square on the arc.
For practice play a wedge off the right foot d-lofting for a knock down.
The hands are now way ahead, but the hands release is at the same point.
You really get a feel for what's going on as you have to turn it over from the right rotor cuff to get it to square.
But you can't over do it because you are inside out. You just hit a low wide draw.
Hogan's supinating left release drawing with his weak left begins to make sense as you do this.

Edited by Squish, 19 April 2012 - 09:58 AM.

[marte]

Squish, on 19 April 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

marte, on 18 April 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Regardless of how one swings the club...this closed heel stance should help just about any swing...no?  In my case, I feel my left (front) knee and hip turn much nicer, more freely, both back and through the ball allowing me to stay in much better balance throughout the swing.  Can't wait to try this with real balls.  After about 50 PW swings with my foam  I'm still getting centre or just heel of centre contact on clubface.  Course I can't tell anything about ball flight or how straight my foam is going but it sure feels good.

RICCO...how would you describe your "heel movement" in uh layman's terms ?

That's the sweet spot.

In layman's terms it is called walking.
Just raise the right heel and the tailbone, the center of gravity,  will swing left. (Lateral flexion of the spine).
The right heel will lead (eversion) or come out, as the right knees sags due to the hip turn and swing of the spine.
And by the time the weight of the upper body gets left, that ball is gone.

The clockwise twist of the right foot and swing of the spine is purely a positional move. It supplies leverage and direction to the stroke.
The power, comes from a turn of the shoulders back, inside, and a UN-arrested, unblocked return thru.
The release will happen if the timing / position of the body is correct.
That is why it is important keep the knees drawn in for balance, it keeps the glutes behind and maintains the tush line.
The ankles knees and hips keep the wheel of the shoulders turning true on their inclined plane from and to the ball.

Dealing with arcs and circles, so turn back and turn through.
The "swing" happens, due to the detachment of the opposite heel.
So no effort in swinging the center of gravity at the ball. The effort should be in staying balanced.
And that is exactly what you are feeling at this point.

A balanced wheel or top spins true and fast.
Unbalanced, it wobbles and looks like it's turning faster getting wider but in fact it is slowing
as it struggles to find center.

Thanks SQUISH...this raising the right heel off the ground to start the forward swing is a whole new concept to me which I find strange and radical...like totally re-doing my swing...BUT so far, it still feels REALLY good provided, as you say, the knees are drawn in.  I have never felt so balanced, > and < before and free to "swing" a little faster.   I hope you will check in on this thread every now and then as I'm sure myself and others will have a few more questions.  Thanks.

[keiko]

I have posted several times what a joke albeit a sad joke, Brian Manzella is. He has been lining his pockets with suckers money for years and years and they keep coming back. The guy is a hacker at best but manages to con unknowing players.
Apparently Jeff Martin and many others agree, Jeffy forum have a special section dedicated to warning folks and exposing Manzella.

vision541, on 04 February 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

I was following squish n' turn about a year ago and never hit the ball with better compression.....has anyone read any of his posts recently?I would love to start a new forum regarding his philosophy.

Vision54

[idiotbox]

i've been working with this concept and finding positive results. the comments about compression are spot on and i haven't had that feeling in a long time. it gives you the feeling that you can unleash hell through the golf ball.

[megaprimatus]

Squish mentioned the need for precision. Okay.

After dinner, I studied his lead angle image and set up another arrangement of clubs. This time I laid down two pieces of dental floss exactly 6 inches apart. I started with a wedge. I placed the leading edge of the club right at the rear piece of dental floss. Once the wedge was nestled to my liking, I placed a 7 iron exactly 1 1/2" from the wedge (w-9, 9-8, 8-7 = 3 increments. 3 x 1/2" = 1 1/2"). Next, I located the 3 iron exactly 2" from the 7. Finally, the driver. I guessed 1 1/2" past the plumb line.

What say ye, Squish? Closer?

Attached Files

•  Lead_Dental Floss_Labeled.jpg   167.76K   66 downloads

Edited by megaprimatus, 19 April 2012 - 11:25 PM.

[megaprimatus]

idiotbox, on 19 April 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

...it gives you the feeling that you can unleash hell through the golf ball.

Idbox, I like this description. Now, I can't wait until Sunday morning to unleash some hell of my own.
(Or try to, anyway.)

Edited by megaprimatus, 19 April 2012 - 11:31 PM.

[Squish]

megaprimatus, on 19 April 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Squish mentioned the need for precision. Okay.

After dinner, I studied his lead angle image and set up another arrangement of clubs. This time I laid down two pieces of dental floss exactly 6 inches apart. I started with a wedge. I placed the leading edge of the club right at the rear piece of dental floss. Once the wedge was nestled to my liking, I placed a 7 iron exactly 1 1/2" from the wedge (w-9, 9-8, 8-7 = 3 increments. 3 x 1/2" = 1 1/2"). Next, I located the 3 iron exactly 2" from the 7. Finally, the driver. I guessed 1 1/2" past the plumb line.

What say ye, Squish? Closer?

 with balls.png   134.4K   19 downloads  


That's it.  The soles are flat on the transverse plane. All faces square to the flight line on the arc, at their proper impact positions.
Now one has a constant. The hands, arm, left heel position.
They can release at the same location they were set at address for optimal trajectory.
With all clubs set flat, from an above view, they form a spiral pattern.
Now, without conscious thought, or eye to hand, one can leave it to the mind to do the math, as the release point doesn't change.

Edited by Squish, 20 April 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[word]

Squish- Is the "squish" a fast, sudden move from the top, or more of a gradual, accelerating squish peaking at impact? Should I be squishing hard and fast from the top, or more smoothly? I tried this yesterday and some shots were OK, but most of them went right. Maybe I was getting ahead with my lower body. Thanks for your time in this thread.

[idiotbox]

megaprimatus, on 19 April 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

idiotbox, on 19 April 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

...it gives you the feeling that you can unleash hell through the golf ball.

Idbox, I like this description. Now, I can't wait until Sunday morning to unleash some hell of my own.
(Or try to, anyway.)

i believe hogan said something about a feeling of putting tension on a rubber band and then letting it go. this method gives you that feeling. you feel the storage of potential energy begging to become kinetic. all you have to do is "let it go".

it also gives you the feeling of being a human trebuchet.

[Squish]

word, on 20 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Squish- Is the "squish" a fast, sudden move from the top, or more of a gradual, accelerating squish peaking at impact? Should I be squishing hard and fast from the top, or more smoothly? I tried this yesterday and some shots were OK, but most of them went right. Maybe I was getting ahead with my lower body. Thanks for your time in this thread.

First ensure you have an easy right hand grip with the pressure at the base of the right forefinger against the handle.
Palm and clubface square to the flight line. Keep the thumb out of it, just lay it on there.

Squish is a compression of the right side between the hip and rib. It will equally drop the rear shoulder and raise the right heel.
With the closed heel stance at the top it sets one an inside out approach.
The smoother I do it the farther it goes. If you torque the rear tibia and fibula spikes against the turf you can't do it quick.
This torque of the foot is positioning/ turning the entire mass of the body.
It's like closing a door applying finger pressure close to the hinges vs. the knob.
So it is smooth but accelerates gradually to a slam.

From the top of the transition, torque the rear foot clockwise and keep the weight back as you draw the front kneecap back.
This will clear the front hip and automatically drop the upper inside. Keep the right hip high, as you turn, while keeping
the head over that rear foot till you strike the ball, turning it over through impact from the right rotor cuff.
If the swing of the COG gets to the left foot too soon, all power is lost.
You should feel the COG hop onto the left post / leg After the ball is struck.
If you do it correctly the rear foot will toe drag as you get to a high finish.

Edited by Squish, 20 April 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[Squish]

idiotbox, on 19 April 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

i've been working with this concept and finding positive results. the comments about compression are spot on and i haven't had that feeling in a long time. it gives you the feeling that you can unleash hell through the golf ball.

Yes Sir,

Cause it is not a push force, or a pull force. Can't get there by dragging it through.
With the closed heels you are behind it, instead of on top of it.

So now you can throw that club head through the ball and extend through as you turn, ulna deviating both wrists..

Edited by Squish, 20 April 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[megaprimatus]

"Yes Sir,

Cause it is not a push force, or a pull force. Can't get there by dragging it through.
With the closed heels you are behind it, instead of on top of it.

So now you can throw that club head through the ball and extend through as you turn."

"...you have to turn it over from the right rotor cuff to get it to square..."



Yesterday at the range - with closed heels - I played around with forcing the internal rotation of the right side humerus bone from the top, as I threw the clubhead through the ball.

Not sure what any of this will do on the course, but I felt sorry for the guy's ego standing next to me at the range. I've never hit balls so hard.

[marte]

megaprimatus, on 20 April 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

"Yes Sir,

Cause it is not a push force, or a pull force. Can't get there by dragging it through.
With the closed heels you are behind it, instead of on top of it.

So now you can throw that club head through the ball and extend through as you turn."

"...you have to turn it over from the right rotor cuff to get it to square..."



Yesterday at the range - with closed heels - I played around with forcing the internal rotation of the right side humerus bone from the top, as I threw the clubhead through the ball.

Not sure what any of this will do on the course, but I felt sorry for the guy's ego standing next to me at the range. I've never hit balls so hard.

"Humerus bone".....as I read through this thread "google" has become a VERY important part of my life.

Megaprimatus...basically what you are doing is turning, rotating, twisting the area between your shoulder and elbow (maybe your bicep)  in a counterclockwise (in towards your chest) direction on the <swing???  Have you tried the raising of the back foot?  How did you start your <swing?  I'm now getting a little confused by all this.

Edited by marte, 20 April 2012 - 10:40 AM.

[Squish]

marte, on 20 April 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

megaprimatus, on 20 April 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

"Yes Sir,

Cause it is not a push force, or a pull force. Can't get there by dragging it through.
With the closed heels you are behind it, instead of on top of it.

So now you can throw that club head through the ball and extend through as you turn."

"...you have to turn it over from the right rotor cuff to get it to square..."



Yesterday at the range - with closed heels - I played around with forcing the internal rotation of the right side humerus bone from the top, as I threw the clubhead through the ball.

Not sure what any of this will do on the course, but I felt sorry for the guy's ego standing next to me at the range. I've never hit balls so hard.

"Humerus bone".....as I read through this thread "google" has become a VERY important part of my life.

Megaprimatus...basically what you are doing is turning, rotating, twisting the area between your shoulder and elbow (maybe your bicep)  in a counterclockwise (back in towards your chest) direction???

Rotate the entire right arm from the rotor cuff. It's called medial rotation. Lateral rotation is turning it away.
If you just turn it over with the right forearm you snap hook.
The right shoulder is under the chin as you do this because you retro the left glute, maintaining the tush line.
The right QL is super crrunched through impact.

Edited by Squish, 20 April 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[Squish]

keiko, on 19 April 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

I have posted several times what a joke albeit a sad joke, Brian Manzella is. He has been lining his pockets with suckers money for years and years and they keep coming back. The guy is a hacker at best but manages to con unknowing players.
Apparently Jeff Martin and many others agree, Jeffy forum have a special section dedicated to warning folks and exposing Manzella.

vision541, on 04 February 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

I was following squish n' turn about a year ago and never hit the ball with better compression.....has anyone read any of his posts recently?I would love to start a new forum regarding his philosophy.

Vision54

Well no one ever has had it down, if they say the do, and play well..... maybe I'll believe.
Some can teach, but they can't learn you.
All I know is how I do it, from others.
I learned that you can't buy a swing from anyone.