1276 replies to this topic

[Ping_Ho]

finished the book...i want hank to hire me so i can write about his personal life and make money.

golfing stuff was great but he wrote tigers personal life to make money..

it doesnt matter if its related to golf..

he does not have any rights to make money off someones personal life.

i dont care if thats tiger woods or some random club pro.

Edited by Ping_Ho, 04 April 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[dmbgolfer]

Ping_Ho, on 04 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

finished the book...i want hank to hire me so i can write about his personal life and make money off that. golfing stuff was great but he wrote tigers personal life to make money..

it doesnt matter if it related golfing.. he does not have any rights to make money off someones personal life. i dont care if thats tiger woods or some random club pro.

Hank, who coached Tiger Woods, has a right to make money off his own personal life.  That was his life- he coached and interacted with Tiger Woods.  He wrote about it.

[tigers9iron]

What i learned from the book is that Haney is clueless as a golf intructor at the highest level and that he is a fragile insecure person. Without going into a long essay on this topic, quite simply Haney's advice for tigers driver issues was to get the club layed off at the top and come over the top to hit a low, short, slice that would end up in the right rough but avoid the big miss. WOW, thats shocking advice when working with the most talented golfer of all time. Long story short Sean Foley has gotten rid of all of Haneys absurdly flawed swing techniques in tiger and now tiger is #1 in Total Driving and hits straight bullets down the middle of the fairway with confidence under pressure. Additionally it was appaulingly disturbing to see how desperate Hank Haney was to find friendship and affection from his employer, tiger. Haney was devestated that his employer wouldnt open up on a personal level and that he kept it business like. this book did nothing but paint Haney as a clueless golf instructor with failed theories as Haney repeatedly tried to lay blame eslewhere often saying that there was very little difference between what Butch and he tought tiger and it painted Haney as a flawed, insecure, grown man desperate for attention and affection from tiger woods. i could go on forever with more references on these points but no need, its clear as day in the book

[Ping_Ho]

dmbgolfer, on 04 April 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Ping_Ho, on 04 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

finished the book...i want hank to hire me so i can write about his personal life and make money off that. golfing stuff was great but he wrote tigers personal life to make money..

it doesnt matter if it related golfing.. he does not have any rights to make money off someones personal life. i dont care if thats tiger woods or some random club pro.

Hank, who coached Tiger Woods, has a right to make money off his own personal life.  That was his life- he coached and interacted with Tiger Woods.  He wrote about it.

i respectfully disagree

I understand it was hank's memory as well.

But he was hired as a coach.. If i were hired to do some job. i would just focus on the task and not worry about anything else. I would not take a note on someone's personal life and try to make money when they decided to go different direction.

That's just me though

[bscinstnct]

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

What i learned from the book is that Haney is clueless as a golf intructor at the highest level and that he is a fragile insecure person. Without going into a long essay on this topic, quite simply Haney's advice for tigers driver issues was to get the club layed off at the top and come over the top to hit a low, short, slice that would end up in the right rough but avoid the big miss. WOW, thats shocking advice when working with the most talented golfer of all time. Long story short Sean Foley has gotten rid of all of Haneys absurdly flawed swing techniques in tiger and now tiger is #1 in Total Driving and hits straight bullets down the middle of the fairway with confidence under pressure. Additionally it was appaulingly disturbing to see how desperate Hank Haney was to find friendship and affection from his employer, tiger. Haney was devestated that his employer wouldnt open up on a personal level and that he kept it business like. this book did nothing but paint Haney as a clueless golf instructor with failed theories as Haney repeatedly tried to lay blame eslewhere often saying that there was very little difference between what Butch and he tought tiger and it painted Haney as a flawed, insecure, grown man desperate for attention and affection from tiger woods. i could go on forever with more references on these points but no need, its clear as day in the book

Bingo!

Tiger figured out that Hank is a golf instructor

with Driver Yips

and that his great advice like

palm grip

was probably not worth a subway slug (remember those) much less Tiger's own time which if you calculate it on a 50 hour week is worth about

$23,000/hour

No wonder Tiger did not give Hank a popsicle...

[sigmapete1]

zerofade, on 30 March 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Interesting I find myself on the side of Carton .. I mean yes its NYC and yes its sports talk radio .. it ain't the oprah winfrey show or dr phil .. theres enough bad sentiment and negative reaction that something like this was bound to happen imo.  in a related piece .. saw little blurbs from the likes of randy smith, dale lynch, randy smith, etc .. and they basically said what haney did is a big no no .. so to me this Carton guy .. while being a bit of a typical new yorker asked and said what i would want to know or say to haney .. especially probing about putting in personal family details .. icy stares from the wife, no tv during family dinner time .. i mean wtf?  what does that have to do with tiger's golf swing/game .. its a bs copout answer to say it speaks to his mental state..  hey .. haney hit the jackpot, almost as good as hitting the megamillions .. good for you hank .. good for you

I'm with you.  I think it was about time someone confronted Haney with the sentiment that many have expressed.  I listened to the whole thing and if someone evaded direct questions by me the way Haney did, I would call him a coward too.  

Haney likely got a load of cash to write this book.  Having to answer those kind of questions is the price he pays and should be expected.  Too often interviewers err on the side of niceties and won't call someone out for dancing around the questions.  The interview started off civil until Haney gave BS responses to direct questions.  

Bottom line is that Haney profited off of Tiger's personal issues and has put himself on the level of TMZ and other garbage.  I don't really have a dog in this fight as I was always more of a Mickelson fan than Tiger but Haney just comes across as a low life weasel to me.

[sigmapete1]

dmbgolfer, on 04 April 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Ping_Ho, on 04 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

finished the book...i want hank to hire me so i can write about his personal life and make money off that. golfing stuff was great but he wrote tigers personal life to make money..

it doesnt matter if it related golfing.. he does not have any rights to make money off someones personal life. i dont care if thats tiger woods or some random club pro.

Hank, who coached Tiger Woods, has a right to make money off his own personal life.  That was his life- he coached and interacted with Tiger Woods.  He wrote about it.

It doesn't really work that way.  The question is really whether there is an implied confidentiality in a coach relationship (the so called locker room code).  No one is saying Haney broke any laws but if you agree with that code, then what he did was wrong in the eyes of sports people.  

I am a lawyer, and my conversations with clients are my memories too.  Does that mean I can write a book about my personal life and include all the details I learn about clients?  Absolutely not.  In that case there is an express confidentiality, the "attorney-client" privilege.  So assuming there is an expectation of privacy (which is admittedly up for debate) this whole line by Haney of "they are my memories too" is complete garbage.  

Keep in mind, Haney got paid a LOT of money by Tiger who essentially made him the public figure (at least in golf) that he is now.  In my opinion, Haney betrayed what was probably once a friendship just to chase a few dollars down.  

Everything he did was totally legal, but would you want that guy as your friend?

[dmbgolfer]

sigmapete1, on 04 April 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

dmbgolfer, on 04 April 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Ping_Ho, on 04 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

finished the book...i want hank to hire me so i can write about his personal life and make money off that. golfing stuff was great but he wrote tigers personal life to make money..

it doesnt matter if it related golfing.. he does not have any rights to make money off someones personal life. i dont care if thats tiger woods or some random club pro.

Hank, who coached Tiger Woods, has a right to make money off his own personal life.  That was his life- he coached and interacted with Tiger Woods.  He wrote about it.

It doesn't really work that way.  The question is really whether there is an implied confidentiality in a coach relationship (the so called locker room code).  No one is saying Haney broke any laws but if you agree with that code, then what he did was wrong in the eyes of sports people.  

I am a lawyer, and my conversations with clients are my memories too.  Does that mean I can write a book about my personal life and include all the details I learn about clients?  Absolutely not.  In that case there is an express confidentiality, the "attorney-client" privilege.  So assuming there is an expectation of privacy (which is admittedly up for debate) this whole line by Haney of "they are my memories too" is complete garbage.  

Keep in mind, Haney got paid a LOT of money by Tiger who essentially made him the public figure (at least in golf) that he is now.  In my opinion, Haney betrayed what was probably once a friendship just to chase a few dollars down.  

Everything he did was totally legal, but would you want that guy as your friend?

I am a lawyer too, which is why I know attorney-client confidentiality, yes.  Golf teacher-student confidentiality, no.

You might be referring to something more generally known as good manners, i.e., the writing of this book might exceed the bounds of good manners.  That may be so, but if you read the book, or if you've read just about anything about Tiger Woods, you see that he too, is severely lacking in good manners, common courtesy, basic human decency.  For crying out loud, he's the richest athlete in the world and a notoriously bad tipper to waiters.  

He did not pay Hank well.  Was Hank able to make money off the association?  Sure, because that's how Tiger operates- I don't have to pay people well or even treat them well because just being in my presence is reward enough.

Would I want Haney to be my friend?  No, probably not, but I'd want Tiger to be my friend even less.  (Riding on his jet, or even the souped up golf cart and playing a round with him at Isleworth or the new place would be cool, but a real friendship?  No thanks.

Tiger reaped what he had sown.

[tigers9iron]

the only thing tiger reaped was hysterical laughter if he actually read this book.  the way Haney basically explained how poor an instructor he was (ie-palm grip, layed off low slice as go to shot) and how insecure, emotionally damaged and childlike as a person  he was must have been comic relief to Tiger.  Tiger is long past this amateur hack tool and now #1 in total driving under someone who actually understands the golf swing.  the constant contradictions were also hilarious (ie-he couldnt handle the silent treatment yet understood it was part of his champion rare breed dynamic).  He shouldve named the book "In over my Head" as Haney was no match to even be in the same room as tiger (ie-afraid to ask for popsicle)

[hogans71]

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

What i learned from the book is that Haney is clueless as a golf intructor at the highest level and that he is a fragile insecure person. Without going into a long essay on this topic, quite simply Haney's advice for tigers driver issues was to get the club layed off at the top and come over the top to hit a low, short, slice that would end up in the right rough but avoid the big miss. WOW, thats shocking advice when working with the most talented golfer of all time. Long story short Sean Foley has gotten rid of all of Haneys absurdly flawed swing techniques in tiger and now tiger is #1 in Total Driving and hits straight bullets down the middle of the fairway with confidence under pressure. Additionally it was appaulingly disturbing to see how desperate Hank Haney was to find friendship and affection from his employer, tiger. Haney was devestated that his employer wouldnt open up on a personal level and that he kept it business like. this book did nothing but paint Haney as a clueless golf instructor with failed theories as Haney repeatedly tried to lay blame eslewhere often saying that there was very little difference between what Butch and he tought tiger and it painted Haney as a flawed, insecure, grown man desperate for attention and affection from tiger woods. i could go on forever with more references on these points but no need, its clear as day in the book

So if I'm to understand this correctly, the same teacher who helped TW win more majors than any other, the same teacher TW sought out, not vice versa is the same teacher you call clueless?

The proclaimed "most talented golfer of all time" (by you) did not have the ability nor hindsight to decipher on his own, after all those successful years, just how bad a teacher HH was?

Yet you, all on your own, figured it out?

Kudos. Job...done...

[deasy55]

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

the only thing tiger reaped was hysterical laughter if he actually read this book.  the way Haney basically explained how poor an instructor he was (ie-palm grip, layed off low slice as go to shot) and how insecure, emotionally damaged and childlike as a person  he was must have been comic relief to Tiger.  Tiger is long past this amateur hack tool and now #1 in total driving under someone who actually understands the golf swing.  the constant contradictions were also hilarious (ie-he couldnt handle the silent treatment yet understood it was part of his champion rare breed dynamic).  He shouldve named the book "In over my Head" as Haney was no match to even be in the same room as tiger (ie-afraid to ask for popsicle)

Whats even more funny is Tiger keeping this so called "amateur hack tool" (as you call him) that doesn't understand a golf swing (as you say) for 7 years (which would have been for longer had Haney not quit). Feel free to throw the toys out of the pram and cry over the book, but don't disregard Haney's coaching ability.

Unless you consider Tiger stupid enough to hire a useless coach that doesn't understand a golf swing. But you'd never think that, would you?

[tigers9iron]

Haney was passed off on to tiger via Omeara.  Tiger never wouldve hunted down Haney out of the blue, it was a deep trusting respect he had for Omeara that led to the relationship.  Again, everyone on the planet knows tiger wouldve  won prolifically with anyone as a coach no matter what the swing model, he is that good.  Its simply the structure, stimulation and challenge he needs and desires in the rebuilds.  Haneys swing theories have been widely criticized across the board and tiger basically proved how bad the swing model was through his pathetic driving under Haney while proving how good he was being able to win so prolifically with that model.  The fact that tiger has so quickly, now that healthy, gone to #1 in Total Driving shreds the Haney swing model and layed off slice to right rough go to shot as a joke.  The Big Miss was actually what Tiger couldve achieved during those years had he been with a real instructor who understood the golf swing as it applies to tiger.  Tiger stuck with him and won at an astounding rate due to his absurd talent and ability to decipher thru most of Haneys flawed theories and pick and choose what he wanted to implement, though this also hurt the feelings of the affection craving, childlike, grown man Haney.

Edited by tigers9iron, 04 April 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[Splitter]

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Haney was passed off on to tiger via Omeara.  Tiger never wouldve hunted down Haney out of the blue, it was a deep trusting respect he had for Omeara that led to the relationship.  Again, everyone on the planet knows tiger wouldve  won prolifically with anyone as a coach no matter what the swing model, he is that good.  Its simply the structure, stimulation and challenge he needs and desires in the rebuilds.  Haneys swing theories have been widely criticized across the board and tiger basically proved how bad the swing model was through his pathetic driving under Haney while proving how good he was being able to win so prolifically with that model.  The fact that tiger has so quickly, now that healthy, gone to #1 in Total Driving shreds the Haney swing model and layed off slice to right rough go to shot as a joke.  The Big Miss was actually what Tiger couldve achieved during those years had he been with a real instructor who understood the golf swing as it applies to tiger.  Tiger stuck with him and won at an astounding rate due to his absurd talent and ability to decipher thru most of Haneys flawed theories and pick and choose what he wanted to implement, though this also hurt the feelings of the affection craving, childlike, grown man Haney.

So..  Omearas 34 wins and two Majors are just a result of him being "that good" and he could have done the same or even better without Haney?  Think of how good he could have been without Haney.

And I guess Haney out-foxed the folks who hand out teacher of the year awards as well?

And of course he was able to build his schools up pre-tiger because the word spread around that he sucked as a coach, but would be a really good friend?

Keep it up 9iron.  You're making my day easier with the humor.

[Drijver]

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Haney was passed off on to tiger via Omeara.  Tiger never wouldve hunted down Haney out of the blue, it was a deep trusting respect he had for Omeara that led to the relationship.  

And just for O'meara he kept it going for 7 years, certainly nothing to do with his wins during that period. Seriously your post is pathetic as you're arguments consist of weak interpretations hardly backed by facts.

Please refrain from posting on a subject if your only contributions are mere insinuations and insults.

Edited by Drijver, 04 April 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[hogans71]

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Haney was passed off on to tiger via Omeara.  Tiger never wouldve hunted down Haney out of the blue, it was a deep trusting respect he had for Omeara that led to the relationship.  Again, everyone on the planet knows tiger wouldve  won prolifically with anyone as a coach no matter what the swing model, he is that good.  Its simply the structure, stimulation and challenge he needs and desires in the rebuilds.  Haneys swing theories have been widely criticized across the board and tiger basically proved how bad the swing model was through his pathetic driving under Haney while proving how good he was being able to win so prolifically with that model.  The fact that tiger has so quickly, now that healthy, gone to #1 in Total Driving shreds the Haney swing model and layed off slice to right rough go to shot as a joke.  The Big Miss was actually what Tiger couldve achieved during those years had he been with a real instructor who understood the golf swing as it applies to tiger.  Tiger stuck with him and won at an astounding rate due to his absurd talent and ability to decipher thru most of Haneys flawed theories and pick and choose what he wanted to implement, though this also hurt the feelings of the affection craving, childlike, grown man Haney.

You have taken adoration to a whole new level... Impressive!

[csb000]

hogans71, on 04 April 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Haney was passed off on to tiger via Omeara.  Tiger never wouldve hunted down Haney out of the blue, it was a deep trusting respect he had for Omeara that led to the relationship.  Again, everyone on the planet knows tiger wouldve  won prolifically with anyone as a coach no matter what the swing model, he is that good.  Its simply the structure, stimulation and challenge he needs and desires in the rebuilds.  Haneys swing theories have been widely criticized across the board and tiger basically proved how bad the swing model was through his pathetic driving under Haney while proving how good he was being able to win so prolifically with that model.  The fact that tiger has so quickly, now that healthy, gone to #1 in Total Driving shreds the Haney swing model and layed off slice to right rough go to shot as a joke.  The Big Miss was actually what Tiger couldve achieved during those years had he been with a real instructor who understood the golf swing as it applies to tiger.  Tiger stuck with him and won at an astounding rate due to his absurd talent and ability to decipher thru most of Haneys flawed theories and pick and choose what he wanted to implement, though this also hurt the feelings of the affection craving, childlike, grown man Haney.

You have taken adoration to a whole new level... Impressive!

9iron is over the top, but after reading The BIg Miss I'm not at all convinced of Hank's swing theories. I'm more feeling that the net benefit of having a coach who could help him manage his game, a world class short game (during the relevant period) and intimidation factor were more to do with Tigers winning ways than swinging on parallel plane lines.

Hank's success with Tiger may not be directly related to improved swing mechanics. In fact a player can overcome flawed mechanics if he can manage his game effectively. I don't think it is hard to believe that in some ways Hank really held Tiger back.

[avpro]

I think the book would have been better had Hank not put personal crap in it. Heck most of the personal stuff was speculation and not facts. Karma may be kinda mean to Hank Haney and his gold digging wife. They are both scum

[bscinstnct]

deasy55, on 04 April 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

the only thing tiger reaped was hysterical laughter if he actually read this book.  the way Haney basically explained how poor an instructor he was (ie-palm grip, layed off low slice as go to shot) and how insecure, emotionally damaged and childlike as a person  he was must have been comic relief to Tiger.  Tiger is long past this amateur hack tool and now #1 in total driving under someone who actually understands the golf swing.  the constant contradictions were also hilarious (ie-he couldnt handle the silent treatment yet understood it was part of his champion rare breed dynamic).  He shouldve named the book "In over my Head" as Haney was no match to even be in the same room as tiger (ie-afraid to ask for popsicle)

Whats even more funny is Tiger keeping this so called "amateur hack tool" (as you call him) that doesn't understand a golf swing (as you say) for 7 years (which would have been for longer had Haney not quit). Feel free to throw the toys out of the pram and cry over the book, but don't disregard Haney's coaching ability.

Unless you consider Tiger stupid enough to hire a useless coach that doesn't understand a golf swing. But you'd never think that, would you?

Do I believe that Tiger kept Hank around as a glorified

Towel boy?

Yes

Do I believe that hank helped tiger win anything more than he would have without him?

No

Do I believe that hank is now exposed as useless except for hiding under rocks and taking notes on a cients personal life?

Yes

[Redman]

hogans71, on 04 April 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

What i learned from the book is that Haney is clueless as a golf intructor at the highest level and that he is a fragile insecure person. Without going into a long essay on this topic, quite simply Haney's advice for tigers driver issues was to get the club layed off at the top and come over the top to hit a low, short, slice that would end up in the right rough but avoid the big miss. WOW, thats shocking advice when working with the most talented golfer of all time. Long story short Sean Foley has gotten rid of all of Haneys absurdly flawed swing techniques in tiger and now tiger is #1 in Total Driving and hits straight bullets down the middle of the fairway with confidence under pressure. Additionally it was appaulingly disturbing to see how desperate Hank Haney was to find friendship and affection from his employer, tiger. Haney was devestated that his employer wouldnt open up on a personal level and that he kept it business like. this book did nothing but paint Haney as a clueless golf instructor with failed theories as Haney repeatedly tried to lay blame eslewhere often saying that there was very little difference between what Butch and he tought tiger and it painted Haney as a flawed, insecure, grown man desperate for attention and affection from tiger woods. i could go on forever with more references on these points but no need, its clear as day in the book

So if I'm to understand this correctly, the same teacher who helped TW win more majors than any other, the same teacher TW sought out, not vice versa is the same teacher you call clueless?

The proclaimed "most talented golfer of all time" (by you) did not have the ability nor hindsight to decipher on his own, after all those successful years, just how bad a teacher HH was?

Yet you, all on your own, figured it out?

Kudos. Job...done...

Well, one thing you don't understand clearly is that he did not coach Tiger to the most majors.  He won 8 with Butch and 6 with Hiney.

[Redman]

sshadow2, on 03 April 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Funny. What I read was a man who was confident about his teachings (was already having success with it) and had what essentially was a bad student. You really didn't read all the parts Haney said Tiger didn't listen to him off the tee out of fear? All the parts where he stated that when Tiger did listen, he got good results? Or in the beginning where he talks about a quick fix and then a plan to permanently fix the driver? A plan Tiger didnt demonstrate in competition most of the _ey said all those things a million times in the book.

Speaking of perspectives, can you imagine what Steve Williams's book will say? Can imagine if Tiger ever wrote a book countering Haney's and William's. Now that would be scandal.

No wonder Tiger was afraid with the driver when he was told to grip it in the palm, lay it off at the top and hit weak slices that took away his biggest advantage over most players at the time - distance. Does that advice truly sound like a good plan to anyone. What would you think if your coach/teacher told u to grip it in the palm and lay it off at about 10:00 at the top?
Tiger doesn't look too fearful off the tee now that he's got a proper grip and fundamentally sound swing does he?
And what else to you expect Hiney to say...that it was his fault?  Of course he's going to take the credit when Tiger was good and lay the blame when he was bad. Especially when he so badly wants to be Butch Harmon.  That part is comical yet very sad. Hank seems to me like he has as many problems as Tiger. Wanting/needing acceptance as a great teacher, gossiping like a junior high girl, and crying because Tiger wouldn't be his best friend. He needs some self esteem maybe.

[hogans71]

Redman, on 04 April 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

hogans71, on 04 April 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

What i learned from the book is that Haney is clueless as a golf intructor at the highest level and that he is a fragile insecure person. Without going into a long essay on this topic, quite simply Haney's advice for tigers driver issues was to get the club layed off at the top and come over the top to hit a low, short, slice that would end up in the right rough but avoid the big miss. WOW, thats shocking advice when working with the most talented golfer of all time. Long story short Sean Foley has gotten rid of all of Haneys absurdly flawed swing techniques in tiger and now tiger is #1 in Total Driving and hits straight bullets down the middle of the fairway with confidence under pressure. Additionally it was appaulingly disturbing to see how desperate Hank Haney was to find friendship and affection from his employer, tiger. Haney was devestated that his employer wouldnt open up on a personal level and that he kept it business like. this book did nothing but paint Haney as a clueless golf instructor with failed theories as Haney repeatedly tried to lay blame eslewhere often saying that there was very little difference between what Butch and he tought tiger and it painted Haney as a flawed, insecure, grown man desperate for attention and affection from tiger woods. i could go on forever with more references on these points but no need, its clear as day in the book

So if I'm to understand this correctly, the same teacher who helped TW win more majors than any other, the same teacher TW sought out, not vice versa is the same teacher you call clueless?

The proclaimed "most talented golfer of all time" (by you) did not have the ability nor hindsight to decipher on his own, after all those successful years, just how bad a teacher HH was?

Yet you, all on your own, figured it out?

Kudos. Job...done...

Well, one thing you don't understand clearly is that he did not coach Tiger to the most majors.  He won 8 with Butch and 6 with Hiney.

CLEARLY, I dont understand- only six...

I'll brush up on my TW bible next time so as to not suffer the same fate...

[Redman]

hogans71, on 04 April 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Redman, on 04 April 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

hogans71, on 04 April 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

So if I'm to understand this correctly, the same teacher who helped TW win more majors than any other, the same teacher TW sought out, not vice versa is the same teacher you call clueless?

The proclaimed "most talented golfer of all time" (by you) did not have the ability nor hindsight to decipher on his own, after all those successful years, just how bad a teacher HH was?

Yet you, all on your own, figured it out?

Kudos. Job...done...

Well, one thing you don't understand clearly is that he did not coach Tiger to the most majors.  He won 8 with Butch and 6 with Hiney.

CLEARLY, I dont understand- only six...

I'll brush up on my TW bible next time so as to not suffer the same fate...

Well that might help. The point was that you were giving false claim to Haney winning more majors with Tiger than Butch did and simply isn't true. He so badly wants be thought of as better or at least as good as Butch, but he's not.

[hogans71]

Redman, on 04 April 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

hogans71, on 04 April 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Redman, on 04 April 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Well, one thing you don't understand clearly is that he did not coach Tiger to the most majors.  He won 8 with Butch and 6 with Hiney.

CLEARLY, I dont understand- only six...

I'll brush up on my TW bible next time so as to not suffer the same fate...

Well that might help. The point was that you were giving false claim to Haney winning more majors with Tiger than Butch did and simply isn't true. He so badly wants be thought of as better or at least as good as Butch, but he's not.

Perhaps you can lend one of your numerous copies to me- I promise not to dog ear any of the pages....

Actually, that wasn't the point at all. Take your time and reread it- see if you glean anything besides such a simple observation...

[Redman]

hogans71, on 04 April 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Redman, on 04 April 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

hogans71, on 04 April 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

CLEARLY, I dont understand- only six...

I'll brush up on my TW bible next time so as to not suffer the same fate...

Well that might help. The point was that you were giving false claim to Haney winning more majors with Tiger than Butch did and simply isn't true. He so badly wants be thought of as better or at least as good as Butch, but he's not.

Perhaps you can lend one of your numerous copies to me- I promise not to dog ear any of the pages....

Actually, that wasn't the point at all. Take your time and reread it- see if you glean anything besides such a simple observation...

Sure, I'll send you a copy. Hell, you can even have it as a keepsake.  I did get your other points and they are justifiable. Its just when you start off an argument with something that is incorrect it debilitates what comes after.

[puttingmatt]

tigers9iron, on 04 April 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Haney was passed off on to tiger via Omeara.  Tiger never wouldve hunted down Haney out of the blue, it was a deep trusting respect he had for Omeara that led to the relationship.  Again, everyone on the planet knows tiger wouldve  won prolifically with anyone as a coach no matter what the swing model, he is that good.  Its simply the structure, stimulation and challenge he needs and desires in the rebuilds.  Haneys swing theories have been widely criticized across the board and tiger basically proved how bad the swing model was through his pathetic driving under Haney while proving how good he was being able to win so prolifically with that model.  The fact that tiger has so quickly, now that healthy, gone to #1 in Total Driving shreds the Haney swing model and layed off slice to right rough go to shot as a joke.  The Big Miss was actually what Tiger couldve achieved during those years had he been with a real instructor who understood the golf swing as it applies to tiger.  Tiger stuck with him and won at an astounding rate due to his absurd talent and ability to decipher thru most of Haneys flawed theories and pick and choose what he wanted to implement, though this also hurt the feelings of the affection craving, childlike, grown man Haney.

Do you really believe the crap your shoveling here ???

[sigmapete1]

dmbgolfer, on 04 April 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

I am a lawyer too, which is why I know attorney-client confidentiality, yes.  Golf teacher-student confidentiality, no.

You might be referring to something more generally known as good manners, i.e., the writing of this book might exceed the bounds of good manners.  That may be so, but if you read the book, or if you've read just about anything about Tiger Woods, you see that he too, is severely lacking in good manners, common courtesy, basic human decency.  For crying out loud, he's the richest athlete in the world and a notoriously bad tipper to waiters.  

He did not pay Hank well.  Was Hank able to make money off the association?  Sure, because that's how Tiger operates- I don't have to pay people well or even treat them well because just being in my presence is reward enough.

Would I want Haney to be my friend?  No, probably not, but I'd want Tiger to be my friend even less.  (Riding on his jet, or even the souped up golf cart and playing a round with him at Isleworth or the new place would be cool, but a real friendship?  No thanks.

Tiger reaped what he had sown.

I agree its not the same as attorney-client privilege.  I'm just saying that IF you agree there is some expectation of privacy then Haney's "they are my memories too" is a meaningless argument.  It's essentially a cop out to the real question of whether he believed there was some expectation of confidentiality.  So no its not illegal, just a d*uche move.

[Ty_Webb]

Is there anything about this book that would make it not good to read on Kindle? The price difference is fairly small (which incidentally irritates the &%$! out of me), so if there are pictures or anything like that that would make it a good idea to buy in hardback (besides being able to pass it on), could someone let me know?

[C-Law]

Anyone else think this book wasnt really about the money but about how insanely insecure and all he is saying is "Hey look i helped him, he won because of me just look at these numbers!"

[hogans71]

Redman, on 04 April 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

hogans71, on 04 April 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Redman, on 04 April 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Well that might help. The point was that you were giving false claim to Haney winning more majors with Tiger than Butch did and simply isn't true. He so badly wants be thought of as better or at least as good as Butch, but he's not.

Perhaps you can lend one of your numerous copies to me- I promise not to dog ear any of the pages....

Actually, that wasn't the point at all. Take your time and reread it- see if you glean anything besides such a simple observation...

Sure, I'll send you a copy. Hell, you can even have it as a keepsake.  I did get your other points and they are justifiable. Its just when you start off an argument with something that is incorrect it debilitates what comes after.

I would never dream of keeping such an important personal momento....

I appreciate the correction. Although six is not eight, it's quite an accomplishment nonetheless. I suppose HH is not that much a hack as tigers9 iron would have you believe...

[geesecougar2]

Ty_Webb, on 05 April 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Is there anything about this book that would make it not good to read on Kindle? The price difference is fairly small (which incidentally irritates the &%$! out of me), so if there are pictures or anything like that that would make it a good idea to buy in hardback (besides being able to pass it on), could someone let me know?

No, it will read quite well on Kindle. No pictures, and it really could have been printed on a paperback half the size.