129 replies to this topic

[nochct1]

SteveDave, on 31 December 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

I dont think anyone is over rated per say...  they are at that stage due to talent.. however..... with that said.. Keegan Bradley may fade but hope he does well

Since he has had a lot of success as each stage of his career, why do you think he will fade?

[PGArox]

Keegan Bradley will not fade.  He may not win another major in 2012, but he will have a solid year.

Keegan's an excellent golfer.  His work ethic and dedication to his vocation is grounded in a great family tradition.  And he's a decent man.

[MrParr1Noid]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink...    .How many ways are there to try and to persuade those who do not understand.  Some just don't get it, and however qualified or knowledgeable that the persuader may be, "some" will not ever get it.

PGA  Pro Tour player, top shelf,  eons ahead of the rest, and his accomplishments are pursued by many, and realized by few.

p.s.  Have a Happy New Year 2012 from GolfWRX.

[Br1an02;]

Surpised no one said Sean O' Hair. All the commentators say how much talent he has but when was the last time he has ever been close to winning?

[Sing Golfer]

Anthony Kim. 1 win and 6 top tens from his last 40 starts. People rave about his talent.

I think its a bit tough on Jason Day - ok, he didn't win in 2011, but he was top 10 in 10 out of 21 events and 2nd in 2 majors.

Stricker had 5 in 19 events, Fowler 4 in 24 events.

Its all subjected given we are talking about expectations - our own and everyone elses.

[Mayor2013]

TrufflePig, on 30 December 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:

Rickie Fowler:  Can't see him living up to the hype.  His swing just seems like it has little margin for any timing error.  
Dustin Johnson:  I don't get the impression that's he's got the mental toughness to succeed.

Agree with Rickie

[Birdman of Alcatraz]

Tiger Woods, by about half the people on this site.

[cdnglf]

Tiger Woods... still not bigger than Gandhi.

[pga43]

Br1an02;, on 01 January 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Surpised no one said Sean O' Hair. All the commentators say how much talent he has but when was the last time he has ever been close to winning?

Must not watch a lot of golf.  Last win 2011 Canadian Open

Greg

[HCEG1]

cdnglf, on 01 January 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

Tiger Woods... still not bigger than Gandhi.

But with remarkably similar legs, lol

Edited by HCEG1, 01 January 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[pjccjp]

It is actually somewhat of a flawed question.  There is no denying that there are many more good players on the PGA tour than there are available tournaments to win.  Far more.  That's why I have to shake my head every time an announcer says some new pro will no doubt win many times in the future.  Well you know what - he probably won't, but that doesn't make him a mediocre pro or overrated in my mind.  There are just too many good players on tour and not enough tournaments for them all to get whatever someone believes is "their expected share" so to speak.  That is why the few that consistently win 2-3+ times a year or more really do stand out.

[Jake65]

Interesting how this thread has blown up... overrated is a statement that begs questions and answers in pretty much all facets of life, especially the sporting world.  It's all subjective anyway.  I think Pebble Beach is overrated yet its renowned as one of the best courses in the USA (and world) year in and year out.  Just an opinion, nothing more.  What about Tim Tebow or Vince Young? **I know nothing about football, just examples.  If something doesn't live up to your expectations yet its frequently hyped and people continually tell you how great they are, you have the right call it as you see it.  And in no way does a discussion about overrated discount their accomplishments as a professional athlete.  They still work hard, are tremendously skilled, and are admired by thousands if not millions.

[hogans71]

pga43, on 01 January 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Br1an02;, on 01 January 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Surpised no one said Sean O' Hair. All the commentators say how much talent he has but when was the last time he has ever been close to winning?

Must not watch a lot of golf.  Last win 2011 Canadian Open

Greg

Freaking HILARIOUS...

And so typical of the "what have you done for me lately" world we reside in...

[jak_bot]

Overrated is probably a bit harsh, but Fred Couples definitely underachieved.

[HCEG1]

jak_bot, on 01 January 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Overrated is probably a bit harsh, but Fred Couples definitely underachieved.

as did DL III

[jaskanski]

Jeff Overton. Overrated personified.
Quite a few players may be easy targets as "one-hit-wonders", as well as the distinction between under-acheivement and success, but alas Jeff has neither to his name. He certainly likes to drin....I mean think otherwise.

[dlygrisse]

smith5606, on 31 December 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

It is laughable to describe a PGA or European tour player as "overrated". The most unbiased rating agency in the world of sports is the scorecard. It doesn't care who you are, how many tournaments you have won or failed to win. You get one point for every swing of the club except when you do something illegal, then you may get more than one. There is no handicap system at play in any professional tournament. Then is no seating committee, no sportswriters' poll to award invitations, the public doesn't get a vote, and the players don't even get a vote. The lowest number wins every time. Rating don't add shots or take them away. The best win a few, lose a lot. The worst lose a lot, win maybe never. But underrated - by whom?

The honest to God truth is every golfer with a tour card is a great golfer who has proven through one of the most egalitarian vetting systems that the sports world has ever known that they belong. Overrated? Overrated how. Does an opinion count for anything in the world of professional golf? Not for nothing . . . not where every week any golfer can (and has) won when not expected to, lost when not expected to, won for the first time, won for the last time, the best will hit a dead shank, and the worst will knock one stiff.

These conversations are the product of too much pomposity on the part of the idle fan who has nothing better to do when the cold winds are blowing. I'll wager a tidy sum that if you poll the tour players themselves, they would say that the most "overrated" golfers are us, the "rank" amateur. We think we know the game enough to pass judgement on what they do for a living because we shot a 75 once on a 110 slope course. We can carry the same clubs in the same bag. We can hit a ball they also hit, wear the same clothes, and even play the same courses they play. But get into the arena with these women and men. Do what they do every day. Realize that all that separates each of them from unemployment is the thinnest of margins in all of professional sports. Carry that burden plus do it with a microphone stuck in their faces when its over. Play the course from where they play it, play it 4 times a week 40+ weeks a year. Maybe then we'll come to agree that "These guys are goooooood!" Because, in truth, they really, really are.

Overrated . . . over discussed , , , over blown . . . under needed in this forum and any other where liquor is not served. JMO

Smith I have always respected your opinion and I appreciate the fact you always take the high road on all topics.  However I am seeing this thread differently than you.  I agree that everyone on any pro tour is a great golfer, and much much better than I am.  However if you are rating golfers on the publicity they receive vs. their actual accomplishments some are over rated and some are under rated.  If we stay within this context then IMO players such as Fowler are overrated, players such as Larry Nelson were probably underrated during their career.  

In the context of comparing golfers on tour to the average guy on the street.....the worst ranked player on the Nationwide tour is probably underrated by a lot, I mean a lot, I don't think the average golfer can appreciate how good they really are if they have never seen them in action up close and in person.  

The thing that always worries me about threads such as this is that they will get out of context and turn into player bashing threads....seriously I wish I had 1/10th of the talent Rickie Fowler has....so I agree with you that maybe threads of this nature should not be started in the first place.  

Have a happy new year.

[DevilGolfer]

smith5606, on 31 December 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

It is laughable to describe a PGA or European tour player as "overrated". The most unbiased rating agency in the world of sports is the scorecard. It doesn't care who you are, how many tournaments you have won or failed to win. You get one point for every swing of the club except when you do something illegal, then you may get more than one. There is no handicap system at play in any professional tournament. Then is no seating committee, no sportswriters' poll to award invitations, the public doesn't get a vote, and the players don't even get a vote. The lowest number wins every time. Rating don't add shots or take them away. The best win a few, lose a lot. The worst lose a lot, win maybe never. But underrated - by whom?

The honest to God truth is every golfer with a tour card is a great golfer who has proven through one of the most egalitarian vetting systems that the sports world has ever known that they belong. Overrated? Overrated how. Does an opinion count for anything in the world of professional golf? Not for nothing . . . not where every week any golfer can (and has) won when not expected to, lost when not expected to, won for the first time, won for the last time, the best will hit a dead shank, and the worst will knock one stiff.

These conversations are the product of too much pomposity on the part of the idle fan who has nothing better to do when the cold winds are blowing. I'll wager a tidy sum that if you poll the tour players themselves, they would say that the most "overrated" golfers are us, the "rank" amateur. We think we know the game enough to pass judgement on what they do for a living because we shot a 75 once on a 110 slope course. We can carry the same clubs in the same bag. We can hit a ball they also hit, wear the same clothes, and even play the same courses they play. But get into the arena with these women and men. Do what they do every day. Realize that all that separates each of them from unemployment is the thinnest of margins in all of professional sports. Carry that burden plus do it with a microphone stuck in their faces when its over. Play the course from where they play it, play it 4 times a week 40+ weeks a year. Maybe then we'll come to agree that "These guys are goooooood!" Because, in truth, they really, really are.

Overrated . . . over discussed , , , over blown . . . under needed in this forum and any other where liquor is not served. JMO

Title says PGA Tour.

[bdowden11]

Bill Haas

[thekru]

Wow! I'm surprised how some people have reacted so sensitively to this topic.  I posted it this past week and have not posted since because I was so shocked how some acted almost offended by it.  Yup, there is not a tour pro in the world I could beat but when I hear Johnny Miller and other analysts going on and on about someone, I couldn't help but ask the question.  When a player has won just one PGA Tour event and they are saying how so and so is going to win multiple majors I just laugh.  Nobody knows, they are just giving an opinion like I was in this post.  Jason Day and Dustin Johnson are both in the top 10 in the world rankings, I guess that just shows how flawed the system is.  It is a 'hype ranking' or 'what have you done for me lately' ranking, that is it.  Jason Day finishes runner up in the Masters, where he was definitely in the hunt, and runner up at the US Open where he never really was in the mix, doesn't win one tournament this year and he is number 8?  Come on.  Someone posted that Davis Love III is overrated and I have to agree.  The guy has won 20 times on tour and won a major, but has he lived up to his 'potential' or 'talent level'?  I think not.  That may not be his fault, it is probably more the fault of the press.  It's all just someone's opinion and that is it.  

And smith5606, it is really cold hear in NH and I don't have much else to do except entertain myself on golfwrx.  This freakin' site is great!!!.  And I doubt that if you ask a tour pro who is overrated they will not answer the rank amateur.  That's ridiculous.

Edited by thekru, 01 January 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[Br1an02;]

pga43, on 01 January 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Br1an02;, on 01 January 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Surpised no one said Sean O' Hair. All the commentators say how much talent he has but when was the last time he has ever been close to winning?

Must not watch a lot of golf.  Last win 2011 Canadian Open

Greg

Lol whoops. It's been a busy year for me...

[tp280]

Every time I watch Hunter Mahan on TV he hits average shots and makes more putts than most of the field, gets it done!

[HCEG1]

thekru, on 01 January 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Wow! I'm surprised how some people have reacted so sensitively to this topic.  I posted it this past week and have not posted since because I was so shocked how some acted almost offended by it.  Yup, there is not a tour pro in the world I could beat but when I hear Johnny Miller and other analysts going on and on about someone, I couldn't help but ask the question.  When a player has won just one PGA Tour event and they are saying how so and so is going to win multiple majors I just laugh.  Nobody knows, they are just giving an opinion like I was in this post.  Jason Day and Dustin Johnson are both in the top 10 in the world rankings, I guess that just shows how flawed the system is.  It is a 'hype ranking' or 'what have you done for me lately' ranking, that is it.  Jason Day finishes runner up in the Masters, where he was definitely in the hunt, and runner up at the US Open where he never really was in the mix, doesn't win one tournament this year and he is number 8?  Come on.  Someone posted that Davis Love III is overrated and I have to agree.  The guy has won 20 times on tour and won a major, but has he lived up to his 'potential' or 'talent level'?  I think not.  That may not be his fault, it is probably more the fault of the press.  It's all just someone's opinion and that is it.  

And smith5606, it is really cold hear in NH and I don't have much else to do except entertain myself on golfwrx.  This freakin' site is great!!!.  And I doubt that if you ask a tour pro who is overrated they will not answer the rank amateur.  That's ridiculous.

Add ten top 10 finishes and twelve top 25 finishes to those two 2nd place finishes in Majors, along with a scoring average of 69.86 (9th) and I don't think too many would see his world ranking as being too far out of place

Mr undisputed World # 1 Donald didn't exactly  have a great year in the majors, coming 45th in the US Open and missing the cut in the Open at Royal St Georges

The OWGR is nowhere near perfect, but, to date, I've not seen or heard of a better viable alternative

Edited by HCEG1, 02 January 2012 - 03:52 AM.

[GatorNate11]

Jake65, on 30 December 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

Rickie Fowler (no contest imho) hasn't won anything and I can't seem to remember him contentending in any major... CHIII has been way below expectations thus far.  Go back a bit further and consider DLIII or Justin Leonard (both are major champs, but the bar was presumed to be much higher given their talent).  Remember Ty Tryon?  

Prior to this year I would have said Rory McIlroy... whoops.  Same with Matt Kutchar until recently.  Whoops again.

He did win the Korea Open. It isn't a tour event, but you did say "anything." And as far as contending in a major, did you watch the 2011 British Open? He wasn't exactly chopped liver in an event where several very, very good players never got it going.

[typhoonoid]

Jake65, on 30 December 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

Rickie Fowler (no contest imho) hasn't won anything and I can't seem to remember him contentending in any major... CHIII has been way below expectations thus far.  Go back a bit further and consider DLIII or Justin Leonard (both are major champs, but the bar was presumed to be much higher given their talent).  Remember Ty Tryon?  

Prior to this year I would have said Rory McIlroy... whoops.  Same with Matt Kutchar until recently.  Whoops again.

fowler was totally in contention at the open championship. I think he may have a breakout year this coming year, but I am worried about the change in clubs.

Edited by typhoonoid, 02 January 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[DevilGolfer]

thekru, on 01 January 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Wow! I'm surprised how some people have reacted so sensitively to this topic.  I posted it this past week and have not posted since because I was so shocked how some acted almost offended by it.  Yup, there is not a tour pro in the world I could beat but when I hear Johnny Miller and other analysts going on and on about someone, I couldn't help but ask the question.  When a player has won just one PGA Tour event and they are saying how so and so is going to win multiple majors I just laugh.  Nobody knows, they are just giving an opinion like I was in this post.  Jason Day and Dustin Johnson are both in the top 10 in the world rankings, I guess that just shows how flawed the system is.  It is a 'hype ranking' or 'what have you done for me lately' ranking, that is it.  Jason Day finishes runner up in the Masters, where he was definitely in the hunt, and runner up at the US Open where he never really was in the mix, doesn't win one tournament this year and he is number 8?  Come on.  Someone posted that Davis Love III is overrated and I have to agree.  The guy has won 20 times on tour and won a major, but has he lived up to his 'potential' or 'talent level'?  I think not.  That may not be his fault, it is probably more the fault of the press.  It's all just someone's opinion and that is it.  

And smith5606, it is really cold hear in NH and I don't have much else to do except entertain myself on golfwrx.  This freakin' site is great!!!.  And I doubt that if you ask a tour pro who is overrated they will not answer the rank amateur.  That's ridiculous.

It seems as if anytime a player who's not done much on tour makes any type of a good shot Miller says, "I really think _______ could be the next big thing on tour. I really think so." It never fails.

[Jake65]

GatorNate11, on 02 January 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

Jake65, on 30 December 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

Rickie Fowler (no contest imho) hasn't won anything and I can't seem to remember him contentending in any major... CHIII has been way below expectations thus far.  Go back a bit further and consider DLIII or Justin Leonard (both are major champs, but the bar was presumed to be much higher given their talent).  Remember Ty Tryon?  

Prior to this year I would have said Rory McIlroy... whoops.  Same with Matt Kutchar until recently.  Whoops again.

He did win the Korea Open. It isn't a tour event, but you did say "anything." And as far as contending in a major, did you watch the 2011 British Open? He wasn't exactly chopped liver in an event where several very, very good players never got it going.

That's right, I forgot about the Korea Open.  Maybe that will propel him towards victory on the PGA Tour soon, who knows?  But, the British Open?  He did finish in the top 5 or so, but so did Chad Campbell and we dont see him plastered all over the media do we?  Fowler finished five shots back and really never had a chance to do much more than grab a top five finish, in my opinon.

[mac94]

There is Villegas and then there is everyone else.

[gators78]

I'm absolutely amazed, and baffled, at the names that are being thrown around.

Keegan Bradley? The dude played on the PGA Tour for the first time in 2011 in Hawaii. Pretty freaking good year I'd say.

Bill Haas? Guy was in 3 playoffs this year, oh and the one he won was worth $11M and change.


Not really sure what people are reading or watching, but expectations aren't being set that everyone should win the grand slam or it's a failure.

[Vindog]

gators78, on 02 January 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

I'm absolutely amazed, and baffled, at the names that are being thrown around.

Keegan Bradley? The dude played on the PGA Tour for the first time in 2011 in Hawaii. Pretty freaking good year I'd say.

Bill Haas? Guy was in 3 playoffs this year, oh and the one he won was worth $11M and change.


Not really sure what people are reading or watching, but expectations aren't being set that everyone should win the grand slam or it's a failure.

The last sentence says it all for me.  All this talk really says more about the unrealistic expectations people immediately put on a young golfer than it says about said golfer's quality of play put into context.  That's what my first post alluded to.  

The fact that Keegan won two, with a Major, tells me that he is underrated, if anything.

Edited by Vindog, 03 January 2012 - 10:19 AM.