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Hip Rotation


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#1 Onyx Z

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:39 AM

I've been practicing beginning my downswing with my hips without a ball in front of me and for the most part its beginning to feel very natural. Yet when I go to the range/course, I tend to go back my old habits of all arms and closed hips at impact; then my hips open as the club is out in front of me post impact. I video my swing every range session so I know the progress I've been making. But I cannot seem to get this initial hip rotation down. And when I do try to rotate my hips before/during the downswing I typically top the ball or hit the ground behind it. The rare times I do rotate correctly and make solid contact, the ball seems to rocket off the club face so beautifully and travel down the range just as it's supposed to. Im wanting to get this down so I can consistently hit it perfect every time.

Any drills to ingrain this into muscle memory? This is really the only thing I can't seem to get down when actually hitting a ball.


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#2 tommykrebs

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:11 AM

The hips stop the rotation because they are waiting to let your arms get thru. Otherwise you would get stuck with your right elbow behind your right hip. You are now using your arms to hit the ball (release) and not the rotation of the core. Please read Jim Hardy's book about 1- and 2-plane swings.

http://www.amazon.co...25152861&sr=8-7


cheers, Tommy

Edited by tommykrebs, 29 December 2011 - 05:54 AM.


#3 MadGolfer76

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:40 AM

In addition to turning the hips the right way, you also have to swing in a connected fashion. If you are letting your arms/hands get away from you at all (over-swinging), the hip turn alone will not give you the results you want.
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#4 Woodridge

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:49 AM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 29 December 2011 - 05:40 AM, said:

In addition to turning the hips the right way, you also have to swing in a connected fashion. If you are letting your arms/hands get away from you at all (over-swinging), the hip turn alone will not give you the results you want.

Totally agree Mad. This is something I'm fighting as I change my swing to a rotational one. Depending how long the OP has used that action, he may have to be very patient to make that change, it won't happen overnight. 40 years worth of arms swinging here...sigh.
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#5 dogsbe

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:23 AM

For me, I must start my swing with rotating my right hip instead the naturally tendency of starting with my arms.  

In my set up routine, I take three small practices to rotate the hips and instead of the starting the swing with my hands.  Its dead obvious with the hips because the club rotates back away from the ball, while if I did by my hands, the club is pulled along the target line.   That is all that it takes - job done!


#6 russc

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:11 AM

View PostOnyx Z, on 29 December 2011 - 12:39 AM, said:

I've been practicing beginning my downswing with my hips without a ball in front of me and for the most part its beginning to feel very natural. Yet when I go to the range/course, I tend to go back my old habits of all arms and closed hips at impact; then my hips open as the club is out in front of me post impact. I video my swing every range session so I know the progress I've been making. But I cannot seem to get this initial hip rotation down. And when I do try to rotate my hips before/during the downswing I typically top the ball or hit the ground behind it. The rare times I do rotate correctly and make solid contact, the ball seems to rocket off the club face so beautifully and travel down the range just as it's supposed to. Im wanting to get this down so I can consistently hit it perfect every time.

Any drills to ingrain this into muscle memory? This is really the only thing I can't seem to get down when actually hitting a ball.

2 drills
a. Martin Chuck's "golf pro impact drill".Notice his emphasis on the right elbow hip connection.,8-2 and 9-3  only.Feel your pivot completely dominating the downswing. Youtube
b.Punisher drill.search for punisher or punisher drill on golfwrx.Select "is this an anti flip drill,pictures included".Pad the extended rod.1/2 swings at 1/2 speed.Start the club back straight for the first 18 inches.Start with long chips and slowly progress..Unless you want sore ribs ,you will learn to open your hips at impact and you will do it quickly,within 5 minutes.

Edited by russc, 29 December 2011 - 08:12 AM.


#7 sonofagunn

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:36 AM

One thing I ran into (we're all different, so may not apply to you) with starting a hip turn is I was too upright and too close to the ball. If you start rotating your body when you are too upright, you throw the club out and over the top, then have to use an early release. This can lead to topping the ball or hitting it fat.

If you have the proper bend & distance to the ball, the rotation will naturally bring the club down towards the ball like this:



#8 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:12 AM

Some great responses so far.

My view is the hips move laterally to begin the down swing to initiate the wight shift and prevent you from snatching the club with your arms and hands...and smooths out the transition and lets the club fall on a good path...

Then everything turns together.
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#9 juliette91

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 06:46 PM

Monte,

Ok I know that's right but what drills can you do to get your body to start the downswing that way.  I am like many of these posters, know what to do but my bad shots invariably derive from my lower body not turning enough or fast enough, hands flipping over the club a bit prematurely and I pull or pull hook it.

Tks!

#10 tyorke1

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:42 PM

This is exactley what every instructor I have ever had tell me. It's most likey a flexibilty issue, I can't even get  into rory's position without a ball. Keep in mind you can play good golf without it. I am goping to start an agressive hip strecthing routine in the spring , sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for this can lead to some inconsistancy if your not flexible enough to have a good rotation.


View PostWoodridge, on 29 December 2011 - 05:49 AM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 29 December 2011 - 05:40 AM, said:

In addition to turning the hips the right way, you also have to swing in a connected fashion. If you are letting your arms/hands get away from you at all (over-swinging), the hip turn alone will not give you the results you want.

Totally agree Mad. This is something I'm fighting as I change my swing to a rotational one. Depending how long the OP has used that action, he may have to be very patient to make that change, it won't happen overnight. 40 years worth of arms swinging here...sigh.


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#11 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 05:37 AM

View Postjuliette91, on 29 December 2011 - 06:46 PM, said:

Monte,

Ok I know that's right but what drills can you do to get your body to start the downswing that way.  I am like many of these posters, know what to do but my bad shots invariably derive from my lower body not turning enough or fast enough, hands flipping over the club a bit prematurely and I pull or pull hook it.

Tks!

Two things.  Make sure you are tilted at address with the left hip slightly forward creating the tilt.

That will allow you to turn your shoulders around your spine, instead of too vertically.  That will help your hips open up more in sync with your shoulder turn.

Most people will get an over the top sensation, but if you are tilted properly behind the ball, it is not OTT.

If you start with the left hip bumped slightly toward the target at address, it will make it easier for your body to digest starting the down swing with a slight lateral move which creates the weight shift and tilt at impact.

If your shoulders turn around your spine, the hips will rotate better.

Long winded way of saying...tilt at address, start downswing with lateral hip bump, rotate shoulders at 90* to spine (Not too vertical)


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#12 russc

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 06:58 AM

As I mentioned previously,try really pressuring your left heel in transition or  try to squash a bug under your left heel in transition or try to break a pane of glass,placed  2 inches vertically behind your left glute in transition.

#13 K-Brown

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 07:07 AM

nice video monte. this is exactly what my coach and i have been working on. I have a problem of my head actually getting ahead of the golf ball on the way down which forces me to make big compensations to strike the ball. Now we are working making sure my head stays behind the ball on iron shots, and my left shoulder stays behind the ball with the driver.

#14 jfzhorseman

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 07:35 AM

Monte,
Works well with driver but hard to get compression with the short irons, cant get steep enough for compression. Any thoughts?

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 30 December 2011 - 05:37 AM, said:

View Postjuliette91, on 29 December 2011 - 06:46 PM, said:

Monte,

Ok I know that's right but what drills can you do to get your body to start the downswing that way.  I am like many of these posters, know what to do but my bad shots invariably derive from my lower body not turning enough or fast enough, hands flipping over the club a bit prematurely and I pull or pull hook it.

Tks!

Two things.  Make sure you are tilted at address with the left hip slightly forward creating the tilt.

That will allow you to turn your shoulders around your spine, instead of too vertically.  That will help your hips open up more in sync with your shoulder turn.

Most people will get an over the top sensation, but if you are tilted properly behind the ball, it is not OTT.

If you start with the left hip bumped slightly toward the target at address, it will make it easier for your body to digest starting the down swing with a slight lateral move which creates the weight shift and tilt at impact.

If your shoulders turn around your spine, the hips will rotate better.

Long winded way of saying...tilt at address, start downswing with lateral hip bump, rotate shoulders at 90* to spine (Not too vertical)




#15 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 11:53 AM

View Postjfzhorseman, on 30 December 2011 - 07:35 AM, said:

Monte,
Works well with driver but hard to get compression with the short irons, cant get steep enough for compression. Any thoughts?

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 30 December 2011 - 05:37 AM, said:

View Postjuliette91, on 29 December 2011 - 06:46 PM, said:

Monte,

Ok I know that's right but what drills can you do to get your body to start the downswing that way.  I am like many of these posters, know what to do but my bad shots invariably derive from my lower body not turning enough or fast enough, hands flipping over the club a bit prematurely and I pull or pull hook it.

Tks!

Two things.  Make sure you are tilted at address with the left hip slightly forward creating the tilt.

That will allow you to turn your shoulders around your spine, instead of too vertically.  That will help your hips open up more in sync with your shoulder turn.

Most people will get an over the top sensation, but if you are tilted properly behind the ball, it is not OTT.

If you start with the left hip bumped slightly toward the target at address, it will make it easier for your body to digest starting the down swing with a slight lateral move which creates the weight shift and tilt at impact.

If your shoulders turn around your spine, the hips will rotate better.

Long winded way of saying...tilt at address, start downswing with lateral hip bump, rotate shoulders at 90* to spine (Not too vertical)



Not true.  If you are not "getting compression" your shoulder turn probably too vertical or you are not tilted enough.

Also, you will be more tilted with driver than with 5 iron and more tilted with 5 iron than with wedge.

You MUST have your spine tilted behind the ball at impact or your arms will have no room and/or your hips will stall.

Those things allow your hands to stay ahead of the club head at impact and "get compression."

The shifting of the weight with the lower body and keeping the upper body in place is what causes the tilt.

Spine straight up and down at impact or in front of the ball will most likely cause a cast and as we all know...

Go to youtube and find every face on video of any player in the history of golf.  Their spine is tilted away from the target with every club.

The amount of tilt will be dictated by length of club and ball position.

Here is Hogan achieving "compression."  Look at all the tilt.
Posted Image

Edited by MonteScheinblum, 30 December 2011 - 11:55 AM.

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#16 jumanji

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 11:06 PM

I have / had the same exact problem.  The way I worked / am working on solving it uses the following drill.  I place an impact board 4" behind the ball and a penny 4" in front of the ball.  I then hit about 5000 practice shots where you try to not hit impact board and hit the penny after the ball, to simulate taking a divet. The 3 things that I need to feel for this to happen is 1. Start the down swing with a lateral left hip bump/weight shift forward, 2. Feel connected with my swing/right elbow and my right hip rotating through, and 3. feeling like I'm pulling the club down and towards the target with my left hand.  This drill has *greatly* improved my ball striking.   I still work on this when I practice indoors, bringing the impact board closer and closer to the ball if I can hit 5-10 balls without hitting the board.   I would start with a sand wedge with little chipping motions to learn the actual motion/feel, then move to a pitching wedge, then a 6 or 7 iron.   I then move to full shots with each of the 3 clubs.  If you can do it consistently with  a full 6 iron, you've got it!  I gained a full 2 club lengths by doing this drill 2-3 times a week with 100 balls each session over a winter practicing indoors.  FYI, I'm not a teaching pro, this just worked for me.

#17 carrera

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 04:53 PM

To the OP, oftentimes players who have inactive hips on the downswing also have inactive hips on the backswing.  If you make a good/complete turn of your hips on the backswing (along with your shoulders), it makes it more natural to unwind/turn them the opposite way on the downswing.  Check your backswing rotation first to see if you have that problem.




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