53 replies to this topic

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

This is a cool video of Sergio and his swing arc. It would be cool to see the same done with Hogans FO and DTL swing!

This really gives you a 2d idea of what the hand path is vs clubhead path.

[TeeAce]

Thats great way to also understand my thoughts about lag and 2D-illusiion, as well as how much the head is moving away from target line



I hope this works

[TeeAce]

To compare quite nice view of Sergio also here

[groveler]

LOL Thats much different than us mere mortals.

[Staffer]

TeeAce, on 01 November 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

To compare quite nice view of Sergio also here

Well, thats a nice move, but real hard to learn, and real hard to time correctly. Works for Sergio, but for average Joe?

[TeeAce]

Staffer, on 02 November 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

TeeAce, on 01 November 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

To compare quite nice view of Sergio also here

Well, thats a nice move, but real hard to learn, and real hard to time correctly. Works for Sergio, but for average Joe?

Works perfectly, if they learn to do drop it. More they learn to drop, better they shoot.

[natep]

TeeAce, on 02 November 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

Staffer, on 02 November 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

TeeAce, on 01 November 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

To compare quite nice view of Sergio also here

Well, thats a nice move, but real hard to learn, and real hard to time correctly. Works for Sergio, but for average Joe?

Works perfectly, if they learn to do drop it. More they learn to drop, better they shoot.

+1

[Staffer]

TeeAce, on 02 November 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

Staffer, on 02 November 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

TeeAce, on 01 November 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

To compare quite nice view of Sergio also here

Well, thats a nice move, but real hard to learn, and real hard to time correctly. Works for Sergio, but for average Joe?

Works perfectly, if they learn to do drop it. More they learn to drop, better they shoot.

I beg to differ. That kind of conscious manipulation of the hands and arms takes to much talent to master.

The road to inconsistency.

[TeeAce]

Staffer, on 02 November 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

I beg to differ. That kind of conscious manipulation of the hands and arms takes to much talent to master.

The road to inconsistency.

Have been teaching that drop even for beginners almost 20 years now, and better they get it, better they shoot.

It's just easiest way to shoot well.

[ej002]

Do you really think there is a lot of timing involved?   I don't think there is any more timing involved in that move than a conscious lateral bump. I would say there is even less.  It just becomes sore of the transition.   LIke Lee Trevino in the other thread, or Furyk.  Super consistent guys with a lot going on there.

I tried to make this point somewhere else too, but I dont see this move as a forced conscious timing move - but I think it is more an athletic feel thing.  Watch closely, its not a drop then a turn.  It all just happens. It looks like they are getting into the position instinctually.  Kind of like baseball, you dont drop your hands then rotate, you just somehow get them in the right place. I can't verify that, b/c I don't do it (nor have I really tried).  Just seems to me that the dynamic guys have it - guys with athletic swings.

Tee - what do you do to get young guys to do this?

Edited by ej002, 02 November 2011 - 02:13 PM.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

A good shot of Sergio DTL and FO.

DTL view shows how much club is laid flat at it comes down from the top.

[TeeAce]

ej002, on 02 November 2011 - 02:16 PM, said:

Do you really think there is a lot of timing involved?   I don't think there is any more timing involved in that move than a conscious lateral bump. I would say there is even less.  It just becomes sore of the transition.   LIke Lee Trevino in the other thread, or Furyk.  Super consistent guys with a lot going on there.

I tried to make this point somewhere else too, but I dont see this move as a forced conscious timing move - but I think it is more an athletic feel thing.  Watch closely, its not a drop then a turn.  It all just happens. It looks like they are getting into the position instinctually.  Kind of like baseball, you dont drop your hands then rotate, you just somehow get them in the right place. I can't verify that, b/c I don't do it (nor have I really tried).  Just seems to me that the dynamic guys have it - guys with athletic swings.

Tee - what do you do to get young guys to do this?

Hit as hard as they can

I have used different things, but I get great idea from Martinez just few days ago. Think the ball is on the grass just behind Your back and try to hit it as hard as possible. And I was crazy enough to try it. Never before get that much of power to my shots.

One thing I have been using for years, even before I knew anything about Martin, was that bring Your back elbow toward the ball to open the triangle. Quite often I just show it and they do it.

[tembolo1284]

Why do so few people lag like this?  I can only think of hogan, garcia, and webb simpson.  Maybe 1-2 other guys.  What's up with that?

[Falcon36]

tembolo1284, on 03 November 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

Why do so few people lag like this?  I can only think of hogan, garcia, and webb simpson.  Maybe 1-2 other guys.  What's up with that?

Lucas Glover also has a ton of lag in his swing as well. Float loading?

[tembolo1284]

Falcon36, on 03 November 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

tembolo1284, on 03 November 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

Why do so few people lag like this?  I can only think of hogan, garcia, and webb simpson.  Maybe 1-2 other guys.  What's up with that?

Lucas Glover also has a ton of lag in his swing as well. Float loading?

that's right.  glover is the other dude i can name off the top.

[cj78]

Any videos on this, don't understand what your talking about? Cheers.

TeeAce, on 02 November 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

ej002, on 02 November 2011 - 02:16 PM, said:

Do you really think there is a lot of timing involved?   I don't think there is any more timing involved in that move than a conscious lateral bump. I would say there is even less.  It just becomes sore of the transition.   LIke Lee Trevino in the other thread, or Furyk.  Super consistent guys with a lot going on there.

I tried to make this point somewhere else too, but I dont see this move as a forced conscious timing move - but I think it is more an athletic feel thing.  Watch closely, its not a drop then a turn.  It all just happens. It looks like they are getting into the position instinctually.  Kind of like baseball, you dont drop your hands then rotate, you just somehow get them in the right place. I can't verify that, b/c I don't do it (nor have I really tried).  Just seems to me that the dynamic guys have it - guys with athletic swings.

Tee - what do you do to get young guys to do this?

Hit as hard as they can

I have used different things, but I get great idea from Martinez just few days ago. Think the ball is on the grass just behind Your back and try to hit it as hard as possible. And I was crazy enough to try it. Never before get that much of power to my shots.

One thing I have been using for years, even before I knew anything about Martin, was that bring Your back elbow toward the ball to open the triangle. Quite often I just show it and they do it.

[ej002]

I dont think there are videos of this one that are public.  I think you can go look at Martinez19696 youtube channel and watch some of his stuff you might be able to piece it together.

[ej002]

TeeAce, on 02 November 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

Hit as hard as they can

I have used different things, but I get great idea from Martinez just few days ago. Think the ball is on the grass just behind Your back and try to hit it as hard as possible. And I was crazy enough to try it. Never before get that much of power to my shots.

One thing I have been using for years, even before I knew anything about Martin, was that bring Your back elbow toward the ball to open the triangle. Quite often I just show it and they do it.

Doesnt that swing though produce an early closing of the triangle?

[tembolo1284]

I thought going to pitch elbow opens it up.

[ej002]

Martin doesn't hit pitch.  Most of his students don't either.  I am wonder what Tee is doing differently if anything.

http://www.youtube.c.../11/-VQGOUGRJjw

Edited by ej002, 04 November 2011 - 09:28 AM.

[tembolo1284]

You know what gets my attention....Sergio lags better than any of them but he isn't pitchy at all.  Why is that?

Kinda tells me I think that he is a arms and hands swinger and slings it out to the right?

What you guys think?

Glover is another dude...major arms and hands slinger.  Icky.

[TeeAce]

tembolo1284, on 07 November 2011 - 11:57 AM, said:

You know what gets my attention....Sergio lags better than any of them but he isn't pitchy at all.  Why is that?

Kinda tells me I think that he is a arms and hands swinger and slings it out to the right?

What you guys think?

Glover is another dude...major arms and hands slinger.  Icky.

I would say 50/50. His transition is great for rotation swing, but he stops the rotation before impact and slings it right and ch comes to the left because arms get fully extended. He's just lucky to be a bit late with that slinging so the face is not closed at impact. His footwork lacks and he has to fire with arms and upper body, but...

he's in so good position before slinging, that he can really throw it out with all he got and able to twist the club so that he rather scoops it than cross.

Far away from Hogan at impact, but closest I've ever seen from transition if we watch the triangle and club drop. I asked his father one day how much there is Hogan in Sergios swing and he said first, not much. Then started laughing and said... Mon Amigo... good eyes   But he said also that it hasn't been their intention to swing like Hogan, but it came quite similar by itself for that part. But I think Sergio has never been really interested about technique. Like many others over there. They have learned to play the game and hit it hard.

[AM19]

In Sergio's swing, why do some many people talk about the use of hands? Surely if it had to be that well timed he wouldn't be a professional, and such a great ball striker? Also, ffrom watching the above video, it looks like he squares the club by rotating hard through impact, rather than really rotating his hands?? Am I way off on this?
On a side note, TeeAce, when did you meet Sergio's dad? So many questions I'd like to ask him about this swing, since he's coached Sergio in full swing at least, all his life I believe?

[TeeAce]

AM19, on 07 November 2011 - 01:27 PM, said:

On a side note, TeeAce, when did you meet Sergio's dad? So many questions I'd like to ask him about this swing, since he's coached Sergio in full swing at least, all his life I believe?

Last time about two weeks ago. He seemed to be very happy and relaxed  

Next time I think will be at the middle /end of february.

[AM19]

He would be, wasnt that when Sergio was tearing it up at Castello??

[TeeAce]

AM19, on 07 November 2011 - 05:34 PM, said:

He would be, wasnt that when Sergio was tearing it up at Castello??

Yep  

[tembolo1284]

Would be good to see more swings and how he handles the hip high to hip high area of the swing.

Safe to say he's a CF dude right?

[tgreenwood11]

There are two types of lag.  For a two planer, it's a narrowing of the swing radius via increasing the side wrist hinge and for a one planer it's increasing the angle between the back of the right hand and the wrist. (slap action). This causes a bowing of the left hand as well.

[Ezgolfer]

Oh....
This moves puts the juice in golfswing.The ball trajectory and sound and velocity would be different.
Hard to master.On the downswing and for some in transition it is a race between right elbow and right hip with attempts at staying behind the ball. If you get it right you dont have to worry about hitting the ball,it will happen at right time on the sweet spot.

Speedchain has posted quiros transition on you tube.That is what explains this move the best.

[tgreenwood11]

Staying behind the ball is in th top 3 worst golf tips ever.