90 replies to this topic

[Falcon36]

Hello everyone. I had a few questions regarding persimmon woods. Does anyone have one in their bag? What I mean is does anyone play a titanium driver with like a persimmon 7 wood or someting? Secondly, how big did persimmon woods get? Like I know that the max for modern drivers is 460cc, but what was biggest head persimmon driver? I am asking these because I never had the chance to play these and was thinking about picking up a few clubs to see what they were like because the looks of these clubs are simply beautiful. More art than golf in my opinion.

Thanks!

[Nessism]

More art than golf?

Ping made some pretty large laminated woods.  Really nice clubs too I might add.  My guess is they were in the 200cc range, or maybe a little smaller.

[freddiec]

I've never seen a persimmon wood (driver) larger than about 190 to 200cc. They are pretty tiny compared to today's Jumbo bahemiths. I'd suggest picking one up and practicing with one. You'll hit it about 85 percent the distance of your Ti driver most likely, but playing one with a wound ball or a soft ball produces a great feel and sound, you might get hooked.

Edited by freddiec, 26 October 2011 - 09:58 PM.

[Blade Junkie]

Great fun to practice with, and you really don't lose much, if any, distance if you hit them well. Plus practising with a smaller club head makes hitting the large head even easier.

I went out today with two drivers in the bag - one persimmon and one modern. If it's a tight hole, or into the wind, I go with the persimmon as it gives a lower trajectory for me, and is also easier to control.

I've also carried a Joe Powell Smoker for most of the last two months, which is great for distance off the fairway or off the tee if you don't want to hit the driver and don't need a long carry.


Go for it - they are cheap as chips on eBay and they really are beautiful to look at!

I've bought 7 persimmon woods for about two thirds of the price of a new R11 so far, and all of them have been mint/as new condition.

Paul Gibson Hand Made #1 Driver
Joe Powell PT1W Smoker
Louisville California Classic Driver
Louisville Smart Driver (about 250cc)
Louisville Thumper Max 3-Wood
Louisville Special Edition 4-Wood
Louisville Walter Hagen 5-Wood

[golfbum9]

To this day, still play an "old" 7wd lam. Not a persimmon of course, but still as solid and playable as any and I know it well. admittitedly though, I don't often change clubs- permanently that is...

I consider it a hybrid before hybrids because it has this solid brass soleplate weighing over 300 grams. Plus, I can still knock it down when needed. It's firmly in the bag, and nothing feels and sounds like a wood does

Edited by golfbum9, 30 October 2011 - 10:55 AM.

[persimmonpal]

Louisville Golf makes some awesome persimmon woods, and I have a Smart driver in my bag. (Although I didnt play too much this year. That driver is 250 CC. I believe their largest is 285 CC, which is here:Louisville Golf Thumper
Maybe a bit smaller, but like FreddieC said, the feel and sound are addictive, and the gear effect will help you keep the ball in the fairway, (even if you are a few yards back).

Edited by persimmonpal, 06 November 2011 - 10:09 AM.

[xgolfx]

 persimmonpal, on 06 November 2011 - 10:08 AM, said:

Louisville Golf makes some awesome persimmon woods, and I have a Smart driver in my bag. (Although I didnt play too much this year. That driver is 250 CC. I believe their largest is 285 CC, which is here:Louisville Golf Thumper
Maybe a bit smaller, but like FreddieC said, the feel and sound are addictive, and the gear effect will help you keep the ball in the fairway, (even if you are a few yards back).

misses with todays clubs go pretty far. persimmon hit off center did not . the 85 percent would be for a tour player amateurs  give up too much with driver misses
charley penna

[freddiec]

Charlie, I agree with what you just said. Thats a very good point. I know some amateurs who can poke it out there 240 with todays technology and would have trouble getting it bask 175 with a persimmon. You gotta swing a persimmon, not just wave at like a lot of golfers today.

[golfbum9]

With the driver yes I would agree. However, with fairways woods, there really isn't much difference between them distance wise- the difference is in lower the CoG and spin rates.
I can hit my 15° lam just as far as my current 3w- when you include the roll. just not as high anymore. Unless off of the tee, where they fly nearly the same length on a good swing.

So the newer FW's are more forgiving, yes technically- but not by a whole hell of a lot in my opinion. We still have to put a good pass on the ball to get a good result... that doesn't change.

Edited by golfbum9, 07 November 2011 - 01:26 PM.

[dpark]

Been chiming in on other threads about this. Just played my first two rounds with persimmon in the back (along with a bunch of older stuff).

fairway woods and irons made on minor differences to me, primarily with distance and a little bit with trajectory. My 3 and 4 woods travel about 20 yards less and a little bit lower in height, but very controllable and predictable once you know how far they go.

Same with the irons, and most of it is because of the greater loft. My "classic" PW is 50* which could be as much as 6* more than some folk's PW and it only goes about 110-115 yards. But again, the issue is only distance. I just clubed up one or two the whole round and it was fine.

The driver and (lack of) wedges were the biggest impacts to my game. I could hit a drive anywhere from 180 to 250, and most were in the 220-230 range. Similar issue with short game. I am used to having 4 wedges in the bag and going down to 2 (without custom grinds) forced me to manufacture a bunch of shots that I don't regularly try.

But overall, it was a blast and I am going to play them this weekend at Bandon Dunes

[TraumaKing]

 Falcon36, on 25 October 2011 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hello everyone. I had a few questions regarding persimmon woods. Does anyone have one in their bag? What I mean is does anyone play a titanium driver with like a persimmon 7 wood or someting? Secondly, how big did persimmon woods get? Like I know that the max for modern drivers is 460cc, but what was biggest head persimmon driver? I am asking these because I never had the chance to play these and was thinking about picking up a few clubs to see what they were like because the looks of these clubs are simply beautiful. More art than golf in my opinion.

Thanks!

Believe me they are far more than just art. The accuracy of the Persimmon is far superior to any "metal wood" out there today. The feel and mystique of connecting with a ball on the "screws" can only be explained by the action of doing it yourself. I usually play once a week with vintage clubs ? It is for the fun and there is just something about using a set of Irons/ persimmon wood , putter and a ball from the 1960's that is gratifying. And some of those times bring unexpected low rounds as in better than i have played with the newer high tech clubs.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a persimmon driver and fairway wood and go have a good time..............you will be pleasantly surprised!

[gshlaven62]

 TraumaKing, on 15 November 2011 - 01:27 PM, said:

 Falcon36, on 25 October 2011 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hello everyone. I had a few questions regarding persimmon woods. Does anyone have one in their bag? What I mean is does anyone play a titanium driver with like a persimmon 7 wood or someting? Secondly, how big did persimmon woods get? Like I know that the max for modern drivers is 460cc, but what was biggest head persimmon driver? I am asking these because I never had the chance to play these and was thinking about picking up a few clubs to see what they were like because the looks of these clubs are simply beautiful. More art than golf in my opinion.

Thanks!

Believe me they are far more than just art. The accuracy of the Persimmon is far superior to any "metal wood" out there today. The feel and mystique of connecting with a ball on the "screws" can only be explained by the action of doing it yourself. I usually play once a week with vintage clubs ? It is for the fun and there is just something about using a set of Irons/ persimmon wood , putter and a ball from the 1960's that is gratifying. And some of those times bring unexpected low rounds as in better than i have played with the newer high tech clubs.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a persimmon driver and fairway wood and go have a good time..............you will be pleasantly surprised!

Agree- I've been warned about persimmon and today's golf ball though, that you need to use the softest golf ball you can find.  Maybe someone here can confirm that this is significant to any persimmon you'd put in play today....

[xgolfx]

 gshlaven62, on 22 November 2011 - 09:53 PM, said:

 TraumaKing, on 15 November 2011 - 01:27 PM, said:

 Falcon36, on 25 October 2011 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hello everyone. I had a few questions regarding persimmon woods. Does anyone have one in their bag? What I mean is does anyone play a titanium driver with like a persimmon 7 wood or someting? Secondly, how big did persimmon woods get? Like I know that the max for modern drivers is 460cc, but what was biggest head persimmon driver? I am asking these because I never had the chance to play these and was thinking about picking up a few clubs to see what they were like because the looks of these clubs are simply beautiful. More art than golf in my opinion.

Thanks!

Believe me they are far more than just art. The accuracy of the Persimmon is far superior to any "metal wood" out there today. The feel and mystique of connecting with a ball on the "screws" can only be explained by the action of doing it yourself. I usually play once a week with vintage clubs ? It is for the fun and there is just something about using a set of Irons/ persimmon wood , putter and a ball from the 1960's that is gratifying. And some of those times bring unexpected low rounds as in better than i have played with the newer high tech clubs.
Do yourself a favor and pick up a persimmon driver and fairway wood and go have a good time..............you will be pleasantly surprised!

In my opinion u cannot use  the balls of today with persimmon to reproduce the results of the workability of the balata wound ball
Which was used by hogan, jack, Snead, nelson, etc. The dimple pattern is not designed to allow the technique they employed to  produce their results

CHARLEY PENNA

Agree- I've been warned about persimmon and today's golf ball though, that you need to use the softest golf ball you can find.  Maybe someone here can confirm that this is significant to any persimmon you'd put in play today....

[Medic]

What is amazing to me is the bargains to be had on these works of art. Easily less than $20 will net you a nice driver in amazing condition. (I found a seller on eBay who completely refinishes them and his drivers are $9.95 plus shipping. And the photos are incredible - absolutely beauiful work.

I have my eyes on one now in my watch list and am set to snipe it. I am actually looking forward to getting my hands on one again!

Thanks for your post. It was inspirational!

[Shallowface]

 Medic, on 26 November 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

What is amazing to me is the bargains to be had on these works of art. Easily less than $20 will net you a nice driver in amazing condition. (I found a seller on eBay who completely refinishes them and his drivers are $9.95 plus shipping. And the photos are incredible - absolutely beauiful work.

I have my eyes on one now in my watch list and am set to snipe it. I am actually looking forward to getting my hands on one again!

Thanks for your post. It was inspirational!

Would you mind sharing his Ebay ID? Thanks!

[Medic]

 Shallowface, on 26 November 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

 Medic, on 26 November 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

What is amazing to me is the bargains to be had on these works of art. Easily less than $20 will net you a nice driver in amazing condition. (I found a seller on eBay who completely refinishes them and his drivers are $9.95 plus shipping. And the photos are incredible - absolutely beauiful work.

I have my eyes on one now in my watch list and am set to snipe it. I am actually looking forward to getting my hands on one again!

Thanks for your post. It was inspirational!

Would you mind sharing his Ebay ID? Thanks!

Stevesgolfshop55 is his eBay ID. And he is a real class act. His work looks pretty decent in the photos too BTW. Just don't go looking at the Wilson he has on there.

[Shallowface]

 Medic, on 26 November 2011 - 08:22 PM, said:

 Shallowface, on 26 November 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

 Medic, on 26 November 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

What is amazing to me is the bargains to be had on these works of art. Easily less than $20 will net you a nice driver in amazing condition. (I found a seller on eBay who completely refinishes them and his drivers are $9.95 plus shipping. And the photos are incredible - absolutely beauiful work.

I have my eyes on one now in my watch list and am set to snipe it. I am actually looking forward to getting my hands on one again!

Thanks for your post. It was inspirational!

Would you mind sharing his Ebay ID? Thanks!

Stevesgolfshop55 is his eBay ID. And he is a real class act. His work looks pretty decent in the photos too BTW. Just don't go looking at the Wilson he has on there.

Don't worry, I won't take it from you. I've seen his listings in the past. Good to know he's a good guy to deal with. Thanks for getting back to me!

[certifiedbodyman]

 Nessism, on 26 October 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

More art than golf?

Ping made some pretty large laminated woods.  Really nice clubs too I might add.  My guess is they were in the 200cc range, or maybe a little smaller.

my best buddy still plays the laminated Ping Driver, 3, 5 and 7 woods that he's been playing for nearly 20 years...loves them...they ARE a bit bigger than the traditional persimmons but again, nowhere near as large as the metal woods we play now...he won't give them up though...which is good because I usually outdrive him 30-40 yards most of the time and hit the 3, 5 and 7 woods a good 15-20 yards longer too...I play the Taylor Made R7 quad, the Callaway Steelhead 3, 5  and 7 woods...overall I'm longer with the same club off the tee or into the green than he is...unfortunately, he's more patient with his game than I am with mine so we have about a 50/50 win/loss average with each other...lol...

[Shallowface]

 certifiedbodyman, on 28 December 2011 - 06:46 AM, said:

 Nessism, on 26 October 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

More art than golf?

Ping made some pretty large laminated woods.  Really nice clubs too I might add.  My guess is they were in the 200cc range, or maybe a little smaller.

my best buddy still plays the laminated Ping Driver, 3, 5 and 7 woods that he's been playing for nearly 20 years...loves them...they ARE a bit bigger than the traditional persimmons but again, nowhere near as large as the metal woods we play now...he won't give them up though...which is good because I usually outdrive him 30-40 yards most of the time and hit the 3, 5 and 7 woods a good 15-20 yards longer too...I play the Taylor Made R7 quad, the Callaway Steelhead 3, 5  and 7 woods...overall I'm longer with the same club off the tee or into the green than he is...unfortunately, he's more patient with his game than I am with mine so we have about a 50/50 win/loss average with each other...lol...

Ever hit his Ping driver?

Just curious as to how much of your distance advantage is you and how much is your clubs.

I'd suspect most of that distance advantage is you, and that you'd hit that Ping driver a long way as well.

It may not go quite as far as your TM, but the TM is probably a good two inches longer in shaft length than the Ping.

Edited by Shallowface, 29 December 2011 - 12:07 PM.

[boatrightgolf7]

I can't see the point if you really wanted to be a classic get a dynamic gold steel wood shaft make it 44 inches and an 1996 circa Titleist titanium wood and go after it. It's not like persimmon is any better it's just a smaller head that wont go as far even on center hits.  Forged Blades on the other hand are a classic club that will often outperform some cast cavity back in distance and control. Wood have no purpose other than maybe as a training club.

[Johnny Hack]

As far as scoring with "Classic" clubs goes, look at my post in "Tales from the Rough" here on the classics board as I am documanting my scores with my "Classics".
Persimmon Woods can affect the distance off the tee, but for a lower handicap player who is a solid ball striker, it is minimal. As far as balls go, I agree with Charley that the "Modern" golf ball is not as workable as the old Balata's were but they are serviceable, I am gaming th Wilson Staff Duo when I play my classics and they perform well for me.

As others have said here, put yourself together a set of "Classics" and go play some rounds, you might be pleasantly surprised!!!

[xgolfx]

 Johnny Hack, on 07 December 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

As far as scoring with "Classic" clubs goes, look at my post in "Tales from the Rough" here on the classics board as I am documanting my scores with my "Classics".
Persimmon Woods can affect the distance off the tee, but for a lower handicap player who is a solid ball striker, it is minimal. As far as balls go, I agree with Charley that the "Modern" golf ball is not as workable as the old Balata's were but they are serviceable, I am gaming th Wilson Staff Duo when I play my classics and they perform well for me.

As others have said here, put yourself together a set of "Classics" and go play some rounds, you might be pleasantly surprised!!!

[xgolfx]

In my opinion, any hacker can hit the ball longer today than in the persimmon era. However, that does not make him a better golfer.the rules for making irons have not really changed. Groove depth is a myth. Today's length is caused by

1 added length of the club
2 offset and perimeter weighting
3 jacked up lofts
4 today's ball
Today's player CANNOT strike as many pure shots,or play truly fine shots ,IE, soft draws with a two iron, or a high cut ( especially with a ping type offset.

CHARLEY PENNA

[stage1350]

My persimmon experiment a few months back was about a 5%-10% loss of distance on a comparable modern wood with graphite.  Persimmons were shafted with Dynamic Gold SL shafts.

[rtv]

 Medic, on 26 November 2011 - 08:22 PM, said:

Stevesgolfshop55 is his eBay ID. And he is a real class act. His work looks pretty decent in the photos too BTW. Just don't go looking at the Wilson he has on there.

It's great that they're putting out excellent clubs at such good prices, but as a hobbyist who's refinished a couple of sets it bugs me just a little that they don't bother redoing engravings/stampings and scoring lines and redoing paint fills also. Not that it affects performance in any way, and it would probably multiply the amount of work required. Just my little pet peeve, disregard

[kevcarter]

 stage1350, on 09 December 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

My persimmon experiment a few months back was about a 5%-10% loss of distance on a comparable modern wood with graphite.  Persimmons were shafted with Dynamic Gold SL shafts.

Interesting Stage!

It would be fun to see the results using persimmon along with the old balata. Any idea what the loss would be then? Maybe closer to 20%?

KC

[freddiec]

On real solid shots Persimmon with a Titleist Professional (wound ball) vs New Tech with a Pro V type ball there is about a 15 to 20 percent difference. I've seen the results 1st hand a few times.

[stage1350]

 kevcarter, on 11 December 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Interesting Stage!

It would be fun to see the results using persimmon along with the old balata. Any idea what the loss would be then? Maybe closer to 20%?

KC

 freddiec, on 11 December 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

On real solid shots Persimmon with a Titleist Professional (wound ball) vs New Tech with a Pro V type ball there is about a 15 to 20 percent difference. I've seen the results 1st hand a few times.

My shots were with Srixon Z-Star XV.  I'm sure going back to wound balata would cost a lot more yards.  The ball is definitely a huge advantage.  But it also tells me that you can play wood without a major distance sacrifice.  I'd also chalk up some yards to the fact that my persimmon driver is an inch shorter than my Superdeep.

On a "fun" round where you are just playing with friends, I don't see a problem with the Persimmons.  But if it's a money game or someone wants to "make it interesting," I'll bring out more modern equipment.  I think rounds with persimmon force you to be a better ballstriker as missing the sweetspot will cost you yards.  But they also save your butt with gear effect.  20 yards short but in the fairway is better than 20 yards deeper in the woods every day of the week.

[NRJyzr]

 kevcarter, on 11 December 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

 stage1350, on 09 December 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

My persimmon experiment a few months back was about a 5%-10% loss of distance on a comparable modern wood with graphite.  Persimmons were shafted with Dynamic Gold SL shafts.

Interesting Stage!

It would be fun to see the results using persimmon along with the old balata. Any idea what the loss would be then? Maybe closer to 20%?

KC

Kevin!

I didn't think it was that much distance loss.  I'll have to try it again next year.

BTW, Becky told me to say Hi from her if I got a chance.  

[Jon Robert]

I really like them. If you can hit a long iron then you can hit these. I find that they have an automatic gear effect where metal woods don't  There may be a bit of a loss of distance but I DON'T CARE.  The distance differencecan be 20-30% but I really like the accuracy and shapability.

They can have magical ball flight qualities.  It is very similar to the boring but straight cavity back irons compared to blades that have draws and fades inherant in the design.  And quite often an off target shot bends back to the target no thanks to me.

The PGA Tour has par 5's between 500 and 670 yards or so. That means it is going to take 3 shots to get to the green Granted on a 500 yarder it could be got to in 2.  Lets say a drive of 260 that leaves 240 to the green. A vintage 2 or 3 real wood could make it if looking for a birdie.

(I use a modern Driver and then the real woods.)


You can buy them very cheap at Goodwill so get some and give them a try. If you like them then look for some in better shape.  I find that real persimmon can have dried out and be brittle. I have shattered several. The laminated ones have the same shape and are very much the same thing.  They really are quite a joy to use,

Edited by Jon Robert, 13 December 2012 - 10:16 PM.