1267 replies to this topic

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

I got a lot of requests for the DTL view. So here ya go.

Same looping motion happening with the clubhead. Looks like the wrists are making things happen, but I am not sure.

Edited by Ben Hogan Swing Project, 12 January 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[Showtime]

dude this is great, never let anyone tell you that it can't be done no matter what.  it can be done, just look what adam scott did copying tiger. good luck and never let em get you down

[svsvincenzo]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 12 January 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I got a lot of requests for the DTL view. So here ya go.

Same looping motion happening with the clubhead. Looks like the wrists are making things happen, but I am not sure.

I never noticed that "down-loop" in the waggle before. Nice eye BHSP.

[Staffer]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 12 January 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I got a lot of requests for the DTL view. So here ya go.

Same looping motion happening with the clubhead. Looks like the wrists are making things happen, but I am not sure.

Yes, Hogans spends 4 pages or so describing how to do the waggle, in 5 lessons. There is even a nice illustration.

[svsvincenzo]

Staffer, on 13 January 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 12 January 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I got a lot of requests for the DTL view. So here ya go.

Same looping motion happening with the clubhead. Looks like the wrists are making things happen, but I am not sure.

Yes, Hogans spends 4 pages or so describing how to do the waggle, in 5 lessons. There is even a nice illustration.

So what IYO can we get from BHSP's discovery and the 5L discussion?

[Staffer]

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

So what IYO can we get from BHSP's discovery and the 5L discussion?

There is no discovery, the waggle is described in 5 lessons. Even how it changes depending on what type of shot you want to play.

But, it is good to study both waggle and concentration drill, because they tell us something about intent, and not just result (like the fullswing). Of course, most of the intent is described in 5 lessons, but still...

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Ben Hogan DTL view - address vs entire swing - Shell Hole #3

I put together a comparison of Hogan's address vs the rest of his swing. Want to understand how different body parts compare to the address position, such as hand and head movement.

Edited by Ben Hogan Swing Project, 13 January 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[Pinsplitter59]

just in case it helps

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Pinsplitter59, on 13 January 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

just in case it helps
address_top_sing.jpg

Good stuff. Thanks Pins!

[svsvincenzo]

Staffer, on 13 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

So what IYO can we get from BHSP's discovery and the 5L discussion?

There is no discovery, the waggle is described in 5 lessons. Even how it changes depending on what type of shot you want to play.

But, it is good to study both waggle and concentration drill, because they tell us something about intent, and not just result (like the fullswing). Of course, most of the intent is described in 5 lessons, but still...

By discovery I'm referring to the down loop in the actual waggle of Hogan. That was not mentioned in 5L.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Staffer, on 13 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

So what IYO can we get from BHSP's discovery and the 5L discussion?

There is no discovery, the waggle is described in 5 lessons. Even how it changes depending on what type of shot you want to play.

But, it is good to study both waggle and concentration drill, because they tell us something about intent, and not just result (like the fullswing). Of course, most of the intent is described in 5 lessons, but still...

By discovery I'm referring to the down loop in the actual waggle of Hogan. That was not mentioned in 5L.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...not mentioned in the book???? Oh boy....I'm gettin a little discouraged. But I'm still lookin forward to readin it.

[svsvincenzo]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 13 January 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Staffer, on 13 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

So what IYO can we get from BHSP's discovery and the 5L discussion?

There is no discovery, the waggle is described in 5 lessons. Even how it changes depending on what type of shot you want to play.

But, it is good to study both waggle and concentration drill, because they tell us something about intent, and not just result (like the fullswing). Of course, most of the intent is described in 5 lessons, but still...

By discovery I'm referring to the down loop in the actual waggle of Hogan. That was not mentioned in 5L.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...not mentioned in the book???? Oh boy....I'm gettin a little discouraged. But I'm still lookin forward to readin it.

It's the downloop DURING the waggle that wasn't mentioned. He just said, the path the clubhead takes on the waggle is the path the clubhead takes on the actual backswing. Then on the forward waggle, Hogan just said you ADJUST yourself to get the clubface square on the line and at the ball.

Now you've read it...lol

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1326509656' post='4081243']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1326508410' post='4081121']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1326507818' post='4081069']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1326476805' post='4077961']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1326440547' post='4076155']
So what IYO can we get from BHSP's discovery and the 5L discussion?
[/quote]

There is no discovery, the waggle is described in 5 lessons. Even how it changes depending on what type of shot you want to play.

But, it is good to study both waggle and concentration drill, because they tell us something about intent, and not just result (like the fullswing). Of course, most of the intent is described in 5 lessons, but still...
[/quote]

By discovery I'm referring to the down loop in the actual waggle of Hogan. That was not mentioned in 5L.
[/quote]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...not mentioned in the book???? Oh boy....I'm gettin a little discouraged. But I'm still lookin forward to readin it.
[/quote]

It's the downloop DURING the waggle that wasn't mentioned. He just said, the path the clubhead takes on the waggle is the path the clubhead takes on the actual backswing. Then on the forward waggle, Hogan just said you ADJUST yourself to get the clubface square on the line and at the ball.

Now you've read it...lol
[/quote]

Ummm....read what?? I turned my eyes and brain off when I saw the words "he said"

Edited by Ben Hogan Swing Project, 13 January 2012 - 10:02 PM.

[svsvincenzo]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 13 January 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Ummm....read what?? I turned my eyes and brain off when I saw the words "he said"

Lol...next time I'll put the words "he said" in the end...lol. But go on and quick with the project...I may respectfully disagree with the method, but I'm all support...heck, nobody I think has done it before, so it may be the answer...lol

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

I checked out a bunch of Hogan vids from many different eras/years and all of them have the same type of looping waggle.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 13 January 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Ummm....read what?? I turned my eyes and brain off when I saw the words "he said"

Lol...next time I'll put the words "he said" in the end...lol. But go on and quick with the project...I may respectfully disagree with the method, but I'm all support...heck, nobody I think has done it before, so it may be the answer...lol

LOLOL! Thanks HG101.

[svsvincenzo]

So maybe he is really conscious about that downloop. Many are of the belief it's just a by-product. With that thing you noticed, it may well be argued that it's conscious. IMO, the waggle is his overall feel for the whole shot. If you read 5L, it is really a "rehearsal" of his actual BS. He used that word--"rehearsal". He said the only difference is that the shoulders turn in the actual backswing and thus the arc increases.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

So maybe he is really conscious about that downloop. Many are of the belief it's just a by-product. With that thing you noticed, it may well be argued that it's conscious. IMO, the waggle is his overall feel for the whole shot. If you read 5L, it is really a "rehearsal" of his actual BS. He used that word--"rehearsal". He said the only difference is that the shoulders turn in the actual backswing and thus the arc increases.

I can agree with the "rehearsal" statement you made. It makes sense on paper and in my mind theoretically. I'll let you know what happens when I try it. When I look at the video of the clubhead path during the waggle, I can imagine it blown up to wrap around his body as a full swing.

[svsvincenzo]

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 13 January 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

So maybe he is really conscious about that downloop. Many are of the belief it's just a by-product. With that thing you noticed, it may well be argued that it's conscious. IMO, the waggle is his overall feel for the whole shot. If you read 5L, it is really a "rehearsal" of his actual BS. He used that word--"rehearsal". He said the only difference is that the shoulders turn in the actual backswing and thus the arc increases.

I can agree with the "rehearsal" statement you made. It makes sense on paper and in my mind theoretically. I'll let you know what happens when I try it. When I look at the video of the clubhead path during the waggle, I can imagine it blown up to wrap around his body as a full swing.

Yeah, not easy to do in an actual full swing. Adding the shoulder turning itself is a whole different ball game...I'm closely monitoring this, so get on with it quick...lol..we're of same golf-age as well, still sucks in it...lol

[Pinsplitter59]

by Jove i think you're onto something here...000hhh.....
sequence is:
1st pink
2nd cyan
3rd green
4th red takeaway

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Pinsplitter59, on 13 January 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

by Jove i think you're onto something here...000hhh.....
sequence is:
1st pink
2nd cyan
3rd green
4th red takeaway
waggle_closeup.jpg

I can imagine that the blue could be the upswing, and when blue turns to green the transition.

[Staffer]

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

By discovery I'm referring to the down loop in the actual waggle of Hogan. That was not mentioned in 5L.

If you grip the club the way Hogan did and do the waggle the way he described in 5 lessons, then this is the path the clubhead will travel.

If you grip the club the way Hogan described in 5 lessons and do the waggle the way he described, then the clubhead will travel a slightly different path.

Go find a club and try it...

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

This video is from an 8mm tape of my first time ever setting foot on a golf course or holding a golf club. Sorry for the bad quality, but it's the best I can get it for now. It was a company outing that I only attended for the free food and prizes. I was into competitive softball in those days and figured that golf couldn't be that hard. One of the "expert golfers" you see in the vid (my coworkers) gave me a lesson on the first tee box; how to grip the club as well as how to align myself to the target. I'm the guy in the light blue shirt, beige cargo pants, white tennis shoes, and black Nike cap (borrowed the cap from one of the coworkers). I had fun out there but didn't get any further urge to play again until another company outing in 2007, where a guy bet me money that I couldn't hit the ball in the fairway, and that I could use any club I wanted to. I shrugged my shoulders and said "no prob, you're on!" Of course I picked the driver cause it was the biggest, baddest and most violent looking, and cause my ego wanted to hit it as far as possible.......I failed. Sliced every ball off the map. Then I was hooked!

Wow! I just noticed at 10:55, I hit some kind of draw or hook!! How the heck did I do that?? Been trying to hit a draw for the past 2 years now...with no success!

Edited by Ben Hogan Swing Project, 14 January 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[Pinsplitter59]

THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Pinsplitter59, on 14 January 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't help it. If you could have been there, you would have thought the same way about it. On that day, I thought the guys I was playing with were pros, cause they had their own clubs, bag, and shoes. One guy had his full name on his bag! They gave me my first golf lesson.........I had a rough start lol. I thought this was what took place on the golf course...just fun and games and laughing.

I didn't take it serious until I was invited to the other company outing in '07 with the "real" golfers. I was sooo amazed at the way they carried themselves. Reminded me of what I saw on tv. Serious, scratch golfers that could make the ball absolutely disappear. Watching them is what got me into it. They were trying to explain course management to me and how shot-shaping worked. I was captivated by the geometry, physics, and planning involved. Felt like I was playing a different version of chess.

[svsvincenzo]

Staffer, on 14 January 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

By discovery I'm referring to the down loop in the actual waggle of Hogan. That was not mentioned in 5L.

If you grip the club the way Hogan did and do the waggle the way he described in 5 lessons, then this is the path the clubhead will travel.

If you grip the club the way Hogan described in 5 lessons and do the waggle the way he described, then the clubhead will travel a slightly different path.

Go find a club and try it...

Of course. Everything changes when you change the grip. What's your point Staffer?

[Staffer]

hogangolf101, on 14 January 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Staffer, on 14 January 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

By discovery I'm referring to the down loop in the actual waggle of Hogan. That was not mentioned in 5L.

If you grip the club the way Hogan did and do the waggle the way he described in 5 lessons, then this is the path the clubhead will travel.

If you grip the club the way Hogan described in 5 lessons and do the waggle the way he described, then the clubhead will travel a slightly different path.

Go find a club and try it...

Of course. Everything changes when you change the grip. What's your point Staffer?

I just try to answer your question.

[svsvincenzo]

Staffer, on 15 January 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

hogangolf101, on 14 January 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Staffer, on 14 January 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

By discovery I'm referring to the down loop in the actual waggle of Hogan. That was not mentioned in 5L.

If you grip the club the way Hogan did and do the waggle the way he described in 5 lessons, then this is the path the clubhead will travel.

If you grip the club the way Hogan described in 5 lessons and do the waggle the way he described, then the clubhead will travel a slightly different path.

Go find a club and try it...

Of course. Everything changes when you change the grip. What's your point Staffer?

I just try to answer your question.

Not sure I got you...do you mean to say Hogan re-gripped on top/transition?

[svsvincenzo]

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

Ben Hogan Swing Project, on 13 January 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

hogangolf101, on 13 January 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

So maybe he is really conscious about that downloop. Many are of the belief it's just a by-product. With that thing you noticed, it may well be argued that it's conscious. IMO, the waggle is his overall feel for the whole shot. If you read 5L, it is really a "rehearsal" of his actual BS. He used that word--"rehearsal". He said the only difference is that the shoulders turn in the actual backswing and thus the arc increases.

I can agree with the "rehearsal" statement you made. It makes sense on paper and in my mind theoretically. I'll let you know what happens when I try it. When I look at the video of the clubhead path during the waggle, I can imagine it blown up to wrap around his body as a full swing.

Yeah, not easy to do in an actual full swing. Adding the shoulder turning itself is a whole different ball game...I'm closely monitoring this, so get on with it quick...lol..we're of same golf-age as well, still sucks in it...lol

I am specially intrigued with the "the left elbow comes out slightly" comment of Hogan in 5L...lol...you've read it again...I think next time you'll never read any post from again, if not yet before...lol

Anyway, IMO that's a key detail because that really makes your left arm get swung across the chest/shoulders. Without it, your left am gets attached too much on the side of your chest and makes your left hand and arm get too shallow. It also aids in really pronating the left arm/hand/forearm, and most especially in doing the layoff move.

In short, it helps you to pronate but at the same time gets your left arm sufficiently on plane, not too shallow.

[Staffer]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1326677965' post='4090673']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1326618610' post='4087113']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1326590294' post='4085753']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1326533251' post='4082511']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1326507818' post='4081069']
By discovery I'm referring to the down loop in the actual waggle of Hogan. That was not mentioned in 5L.
[/quote]

If you grip the club the way Hogan did and do the waggle the way he described in 5 lessons, then this is the path the clubhead will travel.

If you grip the club the way Hogan described in 5 lessons and do the waggle the way he described, then the clubhead will travel a slightly different path.

Go find a club and try it...
[/quote]

Of course. Everything changes when you change the grip. What's your point Staffer?
[/quote]

I just try to answer your question.
[/quote]

Not sure I got you...do you mean to say Hogan re-gripped on top/transition?
[/quote]

No, thats not what I meant. I just mean that if you grip it like Hogan did, and waggle like he did, the clubhead will travel this path. Its a pretty distinctive thing about his swing. Feels real odd the first time you do it. Thats all.