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New and Improved Shaft Chart


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#751 Howard Jones

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 01:14 PM

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

That depend on your swing. A shaft can add or reduce loft at impact, nothing else, and loft is loft, so if you think that a shaft who reduce loft by 1 or 2 is any different than adusting static loft 1 or 2, somesne filled your head with BS about shafts.

Your distance/Gapping will change no matter way we go, we cant overrule that, since what we are talking is still loft.

Some players get hung up in things like bounce, same same, if we tweak the head 1 or use a shaft that reduce loft by 1, we loose 1 of bounce, and we cant prevent that either so "Liking" loft specs is not very smart if you want a different ball flight, since thats a loft issue

I guess I need to be more specific. I don't want to change loft only because I don't hit the ball very high as it is, so I was assuming that decreasing the loft would make it worse. I am just looking for a shaft this will reduce the spin rate in my ball, not my loft.  So I was thinking that by going stiffer that it would achieve this goal. I pick the golf ball, not a digger at all. I hit pitching wedges all the time and never disturb the turf. So what about a shaft with as stiffer tip and active mid section like the Project X LZ?

Cant be done, we cant split launch and spin using a different shaft, we need a different head to do that.

Vertical center of gravity on your next heads should be closer to the ground then those heads you got.

That will add launch and take off some spin with the same static loft.

Its impossible using a shaft since all the shaft is doing is bending more or less, and by that add or reduce loft at impact

Edited by Howard Jones, 19 April 2018 - 01:16 PM.


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#752 mesegrn

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:10 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

That depend on your swing. A shaft can add or reduce loft at impact, nothing else, and loft is loft, so if you think that a shaft who reduce loft by 1 or 2 is any different than adusting static loft 1 or 2, somesne filled your head with BS about shafts.

Your distance/Gapping will change no matter way we go, we cant overrule that, since what we are talking is still loft.

Some players get hung up in things like bounce, same same, if we tweak the head 1 or use a shaft that reduce loft by 1, we loose 1 of bounce, and we cant prevent that either so "Liking" loft specs is not very smart if you want a different ball flight, since thats a loft issue

I guess I need to be more specific. I don't want to change loft only because I don't hit the ball very high as it is, so I was assuming that decreasing the loft would make it worse. I am just looking for a shaft this will reduce the spin rate in my ball, not my loft.  So I was thinking that by going stiffer that it would achieve this goal. I pick the golf ball, not a digger at all. I hit pitching wedges all the time and never disturb the turf. So what about a shaft with as stiffer tip and active mid section like the Project X LZ?

Cant be done, we cant split launch and spin using a different shaft, we need a different head to do that.

Vertical center of gravity on your next heads should be closer to the ground then those heads you got.

That will add launch and take off some spin with the same static loft.

Its impossible using a shaft since all the shaft is doing is bending more or less, and by that add or reduce loft at impact

Thanks for your time and information!

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#753 mesegrn

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:11 PM

View PostStuart G., on 19 April 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

The only thing the shaft can directly do to the ball flight is affect the dynamic loft based on the amount of forward shaft bend at impact.  That means spin and launch go up/down together.

Do you know what the numbers are that you are getting now that you think is a low launch but high spin?

Stuart,
I haven't been on a monitor in years. I have no idea. Thanks for inquiring.

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#754 Stuart G.

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:09 AM

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

Stuart,
I haven't been on a monitor in years. I have no idea. Thanks for inquiring.

Don't take this the wrong way - I really am just trying to get more information - but then what is making you think you have a spin problem that needs to be fixed?   Are you ballooning the ball?  Is the ball spinning back too much on approach shots?   is there some issue with the distances?

Edited by Stuart G., 20 April 2018 - 04:09 AM.


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#755 Dcoop86

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 03:49 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostDcoop86, on 18 April 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Iíve seen you mention this (or something very similar) before and Iíve always been curious about distance. At my swing speed I launch the ball VERY high and generate a lot of spin. One major swing fault being a steel AoA causing high spin loft. My question is at about 100mph for a pitching wedge, 110mph for a 6iron and 130mph for a driver....

If I just strengthen loft, Iíll end up hitting my wedge 180 and the gaps would get awfully strange Iíd think? At what point would say height and spin are just factors of speed and swing dynamics and that the flight Iím getting is what it is? Iíd love to flatten my flight (especially in to the wind) with just a normal swing but to some degree it just wonít happen correct?

Iím playing PX 7.0 in the irons and an 8* tour issued head set to ďlowerĒ (meaning it should be playing lower?) and Iím still a high ball hitter. Iíve been told both, I need to lower my flight and that my flight is great for my speed and to think of it as an advantage.

Iím curious what you think about my situation? At what point would you say ďdeal with your flightĒ rather than continuing to strengthen lofts? Thanks in adavance!!

Go see a good clubfitter, you are at a higher CS than the heads we play is made for, so we have to look at the small parameters too. Example, PX has a higher tip to butt deflection ratio vs DG, but even if these numbers seems small on the paper, real life is different so maybe i was "Lucky", but those PX players ive seen with a extreme high apex got way lower using DG. (In your case try DG X7)

Interesting! I keep going back and forth between the loft vs iron shaft. For one, itís very difficult to find fitters that carry the X7 or PX 7.0 let alone both so I went on a limb for the 7.0 moving from the C Taper 130x.

I may try to strengthen the lofts 2* strong from standard (I play p730s ant standard lofts) and see what happens since thatís an easy tweak. But Iíll certainly take this advice and keep looking for a fitter that carries the X7.

Thanks again for the advice!


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#756 mesegrn

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:34 PM

View PostStuart G., on 20 April 2018 - 04:09 AM, said:

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

Stuart,
I haven't been on a monitor in years. I have no idea. Thanks for inquiring.

Don't take this the wrong way - I really am just trying to get more information - but then what is making you think you have a spin problem that needs to be fixed?   Are you ballooning the ball?  Is the ball spinning back too much on approach shots?   is there some issue with the distances?

Some issues with distance. I've lost quite a bit in the past few years since switching to project x 5.5. I can hit a 5 iron into some green and it not release but just a few feet at times (I'm a lower ball hitter). I play a Bridgestone Tour B330. I use to hit a 7 iron 165, now it is 150ish. I've basically lost 15 yards on all my irons, but not my driver or woods.

Edited by mesegrn, 20 April 2018 - 08:35 PM.


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#757 Stuart G.

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 04:47 AM

What shafts did you play before switching to the PX 5.5's? There certainly could be something going on due to the change but lots of possibilities and not really enough info to really pin it down.   Would really need to see a complete set of the before and after numbers to really figure things out.  At least I would - Howard might be able to do more with less.

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#758 mesegrn

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 07:57 AM

Thanks Stuart. I’m gonna try some s400 and see what happens. Who knows?!?!

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#759 Howard Jones

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:15 AM

No matter what you do, it all starts by finding the right shaft weight, and more might be your need, so get a roll of lead tape and add weight about the middle of the shaft to see if that improves anything. It will help you to narrow down shaft options

Edited by Howard Jones, 21 April 2018 - 08:16 AM.


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#760 BirdieBirdieX

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 03:24 PM

Where do some of the new shafts fall on the chart? Specifically, I'm curious of the Project X LZ 5.5 and DG 120 X100

Driver: Taylor Made 2017 M1 440 9.5* (AD-DI 7x)
3 Wood: Titleist 915Fd 15* (Diamana Japan B-Series 70x)
Hybrid: Titleist 816 H2 19* (Tensei White 90s)
Irons: Titleist 716 AP2 4-PW (Modus3 120 Stiff)
Wedges: Titleist Vokey WW SM6 Raw 52F-56M-60K Low Bounce (PX LZ 5.5)
Putter: Scotty Cameron Select Newport Custom Shop

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#761 deep18

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 12:48 PM

I’m curious where the Modus3 120X would be. Thoughts?
Cobra ZL 8.5
Exotics CB2 15
Mizuno MP18 FliHi
Titleist 716 CB/MB
Vokey SM4 50 - SM7 55/60
Odyssey #5

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#762 CROCN

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:15 AM

View PostDcoop86, on 20 April 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostDcoop86, on 18 April 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Iíve seen you mention this (or something very similar) before and Iíve always been curious about distance. At my swing speed I launch the ball VERY high and generate a lot of spin. One major swing fault being a steel AoA causing high spin loft. My question is at about 100mph for a pitching wedge, 110mph for a 6iron and 130mph for a driver....

If I just strengthen loft, Iíll end up hitting my wedge 180 and the gaps would get awfully strange Iíd think? At what point would say height and spin are just factors of speed and swing dynamics and that the flight Iím getting is what it is? Iíd love to flatten my flight (especially in to the wind) with just a normal swing but to some degree it just wonít happen correct?

Iím playing PX 7.0 in the irons and an 8* tour issued head set to ďlowerĒ (meaning it should be playing lower?) and Iím still a high ball hitter. Iíve been told both, I need to lower my flight and that my flight is great for my speed and to think of it as an advantage.

Iím curious what you think about my situation? At what point would you say ďdeal with your flightĒ rather than continuing to strengthen lofts? Thanks in adavance!!

Go see a good clubfitter, you are at a higher CS than the heads we play is made for, so we have to look at the small parameters too. Example, PX has a higher tip to butt deflection ratio vs DG, but even if these numbers seems small on the paper, real life is different so maybe i was "Lucky", but those PX players ive seen with a extreme high apex got way lower using DG. (In your case try DG X7)

Interesting! I keep going back and forth between the loft vs iron shaft. For one, itís very difficult to find fitters that carry the X7 or PX 7.0 let alone both so I went on a limb for the 7.0 moving from the C Taper 130x.

I may try to strengthen the lofts 2* strong from standard (I play p730s ant standard lofts) and see what happens since thatís an easy tweak. But Iíll certainly take this advice and keep looking for a fitter that carries the X7.

Thanks again for the advice!

I am in the same boat as you with the high swing speed.  I hit the ball super high and have trouble in high wind days.  The only shaft that has helped me was the PX 7.0, but I also hard stepped them to make them even stiffer.  I also would like to try the X7, but nobody carries them.  You just have to buy a set and try them out.  I live near Houston so I use Impact Precision Golf in Spring.  They are the official club fitter for the WLD so give them a call and ask for Trevor.

Edited by CROCN, 19 May 2018 - 08:22 AM.


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