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New and Improved Shaft Chart


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#751 Howard Jones

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 01:14 PM

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

That depend on your swing. A shaft can add or reduce loft at impact, nothing else, and loft is loft, so if you think that a shaft who reduce loft by 1 or 2 is any different than adusting static loft 1 or 2, somesne filled your head with BS about shafts.

Your distance/Gapping will change no matter way we go, we cant overrule that, since what we are talking is still loft.

Some players get hung up in things like bounce, same same, if we tweak the head 1 or use a shaft that reduce loft by 1, we loose 1 of bounce, and we cant prevent that either so "Liking" loft specs is not very smart if you want a different ball flight, since thats a loft issue

I guess I need to be more specific. I don't want to change loft only because I don't hit the ball very high as it is, so I was assuming that decreasing the loft would make it worse. I am just looking for a shaft this will reduce the spin rate in my ball, not my loft.  So I was thinking that by going stiffer that it would achieve this goal. I pick the golf ball, not a digger at all. I hit pitching wedges all the time and never disturb the turf. So what about a shaft with as stiffer tip and active mid section like the Project X LZ?

Cant be done, we cant split launch and spin using a different shaft, we need a different head to do that.

Vertical center of gravity on your next heads should be closer to the ground then those heads you got.

That will add launch and take off some spin with the same static loft.

Its impossible using a shaft since all the shaft is doing is bending more or less, and by that add or reduce loft at impact

Edited by Howard Jones, 19 April 2018 - 01:16 PM.


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#752 mesegrn

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:10 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

That depend on your swing. A shaft can add or reduce loft at impact, nothing else, and loft is loft, so if you think that a shaft who reduce loft by 1 or 2 is any different than adusting static loft 1 or 2, somesne filled your head with BS about shafts.

Your distance/Gapping will change no matter way we go, we cant overrule that, since what we are talking is still loft.

Some players get hung up in things like bounce, same same, if we tweak the head 1 or use a shaft that reduce loft by 1, we loose 1 of bounce, and we cant prevent that either so "Liking" loft specs is not very smart if you want a different ball flight, since thats a loft issue

I guess I need to be more specific. I don't want to change loft only because I don't hit the ball very high as it is, so I was assuming that decreasing the loft would make it worse. I am just looking for a shaft this will reduce the spin rate in my ball, not my loft.  So I was thinking that by going stiffer that it would achieve this goal. I pick the golf ball, not a digger at all. I hit pitching wedges all the time and never disturb the turf. So what about a shaft with as stiffer tip and active mid section like the Project X LZ?

Cant be done, we cant split launch and spin using a different shaft, we need a different head to do that.

Vertical center of gravity on your next heads should be closer to the ground then those heads you got.

That will add launch and take off some spin with the same static loft.

Its impossible using a shaft since all the shaft is doing is bending more or less, and by that add or reduce loft at impact

Thanks for your time and information!

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#753 mesegrn

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 04:11 PM

View PostStuart G., on 19 April 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

The only thing the shaft can directly do to the ball flight is affect the dynamic loft based on the amount of forward shaft bend at impact.  That means spin and launch go up/down together.

Do you know what the numbers are that you are getting now that you think is a low launch but high spin?

Stuart,
I haven't been on a monitor in years. I have no idea. Thanks for inquiring.

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#754 Stuart G.

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:09 AM

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

Stuart,
I haven't been on a monitor in years. I have no idea. Thanks for inquiring.

Don't take this the wrong way - I really am just trying to get more information - but then what is making you think you have a spin problem that needs to be fixed?   Are you ballooning the ball?  Is the ball spinning back too much on approach shots?   is there some issue with the distances?

Edited by Stuart G., 20 April 2018 - 04:09 AM.


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#755 Dcoop86

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 03:49 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostDcoop86, on 18 April 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Iíve seen you mention this (or something very similar) before and Iíve always been curious about distance. At my swing speed I launch the ball VERY high and generate a lot of spin. One major swing fault being a steel AoA causing high spin loft. My question is at about 100mph for a pitching wedge, 110mph for a 6iron and 130mph for a driver....

If I just strengthen loft, Iíll end up hitting my wedge 180 and the gaps would get awfully strange Iíd think? At what point would say height and spin are just factors of speed and swing dynamics and that the flight Iím getting is what it is? Iíd love to flatten my flight (especially in to the wind) with just a normal swing but to some degree it just wonít happen correct?

Iím playing PX 7.0 in the irons and an 8* tour issued head set to ďlowerĒ (meaning it should be playing lower?) and Iím still a high ball hitter. Iíve been told both, I need to lower my flight and that my flight is great for my speed and to think of it as an advantage.

Iím curious what you think about my situation? At what point would you say ďdeal with your flightĒ rather than continuing to strengthen lofts? Thanks in adavance!!

Go see a good clubfitter, you are at a higher CS than the heads we play is made for, so we have to look at the small parameters too. Example, PX has a higher tip to butt deflection ratio vs DG, but even if these numbers seems small on the paper, real life is different so maybe i was "Lucky", but those PX players ive seen with a extreme high apex got way lower using DG. (In your case try DG X7)

Interesting! I keep going back and forth between the loft vs iron shaft. For one, itís very difficult to find fitters that carry the X7 or PX 7.0 let alone both so I went on a limb for the 7.0 moving from the C Taper 130x.

I may try to strengthen the lofts 2* strong from standard (I play p730s ant standard lofts) and see what happens since thatís an easy tweak. But Iíll certainly take this advice and keep looking for a fitter that carries the X7.

Thanks again for the advice!


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#756 mesegrn

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:34 PM

View PostStuart G., on 20 April 2018 - 04:09 AM, said:

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

Stuart,
I haven't been on a monitor in years. I have no idea. Thanks for inquiring.

Don't take this the wrong way - I really am just trying to get more information - but then what is making you think you have a spin problem that needs to be fixed?   Are you ballooning the ball?  Is the ball spinning back too much on approach shots?   is there some issue with the distances?

Some issues with distance. I've lost quite a bit in the past few years since switching to project x 5.5. I can hit a 5 iron into some green and it not release but just a few feet at times (I'm a lower ball hitter). I play a Bridgestone Tour B330. I use to hit a 7 iron 165, now it is 150ish. I've basically lost 15 yards on all my irons, but not my driver or woods.

Edited by mesegrn, 20 April 2018 - 08:35 PM.


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#757 Stuart G.

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 04:47 AM

What shafts did you play before switching to the PX 5.5's? There certainly could be something going on due to the change but lots of possibilities and not really enough info to really pin it down.   Would really need to see a complete set of the before and after numbers to really figure things out.  At least I would - Howard might be able to do more with less.

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#758 mesegrn

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 07:57 AM

Thanks Stuart. I’m gonna try some s400 and see what happens. Who knows?!?!

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#759 Howard Jones

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:15 AM

No matter what you do, it all starts by finding the right shaft weight, and more might be your need, so get a roll of lead tape and add weight about the middle of the shaft to see if that improves anything. It will help you to narrow down shaft options

Edited by Howard Jones, 21 April 2018 - 08:16 AM.


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#760 BirdieBirdieX

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 03:24 PM

Where do some of the new shafts fall on the chart? Specifically, I'm curious of the Project X LZ 5.5 and DG 120 X100

Driver: Titleist 917 D3 9.5* (Diamana Whiteboard 70X)
3 Wood: Titleist 915Fd 15* (Diamana Japan B-Series 70x)
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Irons: Titleist 716 AP2 4-PW (Modus3 120 Stiff)
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#761 deep18

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 12:48 PM

I’m curious where the Modus3 120X would be. Thoughts?

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#762 CROCN

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:15 AM

 Dcoop86, on 20 April 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

 Howard Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

 Dcoop86, on 18 April 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

 Howard Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Iíve seen you mention this (or something very similar) before and Iíve always been curious about distance. At my swing speed I launch the ball VERY high and generate a lot of spin. One major swing fault being a steel AoA causing high spin loft. My question is at about 100mph for a pitching wedge, 110mph for a 6iron and 130mph for a driver....

If I just strengthen loft, Iíll end up hitting my wedge 180 and the gaps would get awfully strange Iíd think? At what point would say height and spin are just factors of speed and swing dynamics and that the flight Iím getting is what it is? Iíd love to flatten my flight (especially in to the wind) with just a normal swing but to some degree it just wonít happen correct?

Iím playing PX 7.0 in the irons and an 8* tour issued head set to ďlowerĒ (meaning it should be playing lower?) and Iím still a high ball hitter. Iíve been told both, I need to lower my flight and that my flight is great for my speed and to think of it as an advantage.

Iím curious what you think about my situation? At what point would you say ďdeal with your flightĒ rather than continuing to strengthen lofts? Thanks in adavance!!

Go see a good clubfitter, you are at a higher CS than the heads we play is made for, so we have to look at the small parameters too. Example, PX has a higher tip to butt deflection ratio vs DG, but even if these numbers seems small on the paper, real life is different so maybe i was "Lucky", but those PX players ive seen with a extreme high apex got way lower using DG. (In your case try DG X7)

Interesting! I keep going back and forth between the loft vs iron shaft. For one, itís very difficult to find fitters that carry the X7 or PX 7.0 let alone both so I went on a limb for the 7.0 moving from the C Taper 130x.

I may try to strengthen the lofts 2* strong from standard (I play p730s ant standard lofts) and see what happens since thatís an easy tweak. But Iíll certainly take this advice and keep looking for a fitter that carries the X7.

Thanks again for the advice!

I am in the same boat as you with the high swing speed.  I hit the ball super high and have trouble in high wind days.  The only shaft that has helped me was the PX 7.0, but I also hard stepped them to make them even stiffer.  I also would like to try the X7, but nobody carries them.  You just have to buy a set and try them out.  I live near Houston so I use Impact Precision Golf in Spring.  They are the official club fitter for the WLD so give them a call and ask for Trevor.

Edited by CROCN, 19 May 2018 - 08:22 AM.


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#763 DNice26

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 07:25 PM

Hey guys, help!  Question- it would appear that the PX 6.5 soft stepped is only 1/10 a flex stronger than the 6.0.  I like feel of the 6.0, but want something just a smidge heavier.  Will the 6.5 ssx1 and the 6.0 essentially play nearly identical but with just a slightly heavier feel?  

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#764 jmiller2

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 11:51 AM

 deep18, on 16 May 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

I’m curious where the Modus3 120X would be. Thoughts?

I'm sure it has been covered in this topic already on another page.

The chart you see is only a number for the butt stiffness, it has nothing to do with mid and tip section stiffness.
~ The Nippon Modus3 120 in general would have a low butt CPM compared to the over all flex of the shaft (Soft Butt, Stiff High Mid, Soft Low Mid, Very Stiff Tip)
~ The Nippon Modus3 130 in general would have a high butt CPM compared to the over all flex of the shaft (Stiff Butt, Stiff High Mid, Medium Low Mid, Soft Tip)
>> The EI Profile is a much better indicator of over all stiffness and bend profile then a single butt CPM number.

The Nippon 105/125 shafts follow a more "traditional" bend profile something that is closer to an original Dynamic Gold (s300, s400, x100).
Callaway XR16 Pro (10.5*) w/ Yonex Rexis Kaiza-D 72
Callaway Rogue 3w (15*) w/ Project X EvenFlow Blue 75
Callaway Rogue 5w (19*) w/ Project X EvenFlow Blue 75
Callaway Rogue 4h (21*) w/ MCA Kuro Kage Black Hyb 80
Callaway X-Forged (4-5, 1* weak) w/ Dynamic Gold TI s400
Callaway X-Forged (6-9, 2* weak) w/ Dynamic Gold TI s400
Callaway MD4 (Raw) 48-10 w/ Dynamic Gold TI s400
Cleveland RTX 3.0 (Raw) 54-14 w/ Dynamic Gold TI s400
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#765 Stuart G.

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 12:31 PM

 jmiller2, on 05 June 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

>> The EI Profile is a much better indicator of over all stiffness and bend profile then a single butt CPM number.

Yes.   The single frequency is a very poor indicator of the actual stiffness profile.

Edited by Stuart G., 05 June 2018 - 12:33 PM.


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#766 awtryau89

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 01:30 PM

Ok folks, looking for help on flex for Project X LZ. The 6.0 regular PX fits me well for flex but because of tempo I have been told I need as heavy a shaft as possible. I think I'll step up to a 6.5 and need to know if I should SS once or twice.

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#767 Howard Jones

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 12:47 AM

 awtryau89, on 16 June 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

Ok folks, looking for help on flex for Project X LZ. The 6.0 regular PX fits me well for flex but because of tempo I have been told I need as heavy a shaft as possible. I think I'll step up to a 6.5 and need to know if I should SS once or twice.

Its only 5 grams uncut wgt. from 6.0 to 6.5 and when we soft step we loose the wgt of 0.5" pr. step so at SS2 you are almost back where you started from, now in a higher launch profile.

Add head wgt if you need help to slow down tempo, you wil not be able to make a difference that matters using soft stepped 6.5

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#768 Craig Allison

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 03:59 AM

I moved from X100 to PX 6.5 shafts in Mizuno irons (MP63 to JPX Tour 900) and they fly much higher. This has become a problem since I moved to a links course on the coast with much more wind. The PX6.5 reads that it's a little stiffer than the X100 so I guess it has a lower kick point or different bend profile giving me the extra height.

Back to the X100's I go unless anyone can suggest something else that I should try instead?
Titleist 917 D3 9.5 w Diamana Blue 60x
Titleist 917 F2 15 w Rogue Max 75S
Mizuno MP-H5 w PX 6.5
Mizuno JPX 900 Tour w PX 6.5
Mizuno T5 Wedges w x100 DG
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#769 DNice26

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 04:52 AM

 Craig Allison, on 20 June 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

I moved from X100 to PX 6.5 shafts in Mizuno irons (MP63 to JPX Tour 900) and they fly much higher. This has become a problem since I moved to a links course on the coast with much more wind. The PX6.5 reads that it's a little stiffer than the X100 so I guess it has a lower kick point or different bend profile giving me the extra height.

Back to the X100's I go unless anyone can suggest something else that I should try instead?
Ctaper?  Should fly lower than PX and add in a little bit softer strike through the ball.
Ping G400 Max 9, Aldila Black 7X
TaylorMade M3 3HL, Tensai Blue 7X
Callaway Apex 20, KK 8X
TayorMade P790 4 & 5 Iron, 770 6-PW, KBS C-Taper S
TaylorMade MG 50, 54 & 58 TT S400 (Spider Man theme)
Ping Tyne, 35"

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#770 scott_Donald

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 06:50 AM

 Craig Allison, on 20 June 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

I moved from X100 to PX 6.5 shafts in Mizuno irons (MP63 to JPX Tour 900) and they fly much higher. This has become a problem since I moved to a links course on the coast with much more wind. The PX6.5 reads that it's a little stiffer than the X100 so I guess it has a lower kick point or different bend profile giving me the extra height.

Back to the X100's I go unless anyone can suggest something else that I should try instead?

I am C Taper with previously hitting X100.

I love them but prefer the feel of X100. Project X I was not a fan of.

My next set of irons will be C Taper.

I play Scottish Links golf daily ish.

Taylormade M3 8.5* Tensei Orange 70TX
Taylormade M2 Tour 14* Speeder TS 8.2X
Taylormade P790 UDI C taper X
Mizuno Mp 25 4-6  C taper X
Mizuno Mp 5 7-9 C taper X

Vokey SM7 RAW 46*F C taper X
Vokey SM7 RAW 50*F C taper X
Vokey SM7 RAW 54*M S400

Vokey SM7 RAW 60*M S400
Nike Method Origin B2/01


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#771 Bar_Stroll

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:51 AM

High swing speed, high spin, high launch player. Wind used to kill me. I got new clubs but went from Project X 6.0 to C-Taper 130X, world of difference. I've never hit the ball this low and penetrating. I honestly didn't think it was possible for me. I can still step on it and hit it high but my average launch has came way down.
Taylormade M4 - Aldila Rogue Elite Green 995 X
Cobra King Utility 2/3 KBS Protoype 95 X
Callaway Rogue Hybrid 19* Hzrdus Black 85 X
Callaway Rogue Pro 4-AW KBS C-Taper 130X
Cleveland RTX-3 Raw 55* and 60*
Taylormade Spider Tour Platinum

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#772 Dcoop86

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 10:53 PM

 CROCN, on 19 May 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

 Dcoop86, on 20 April 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

 Howard Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

 Dcoop86, on 18 April 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

 Howard Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Iíve seen you mention this (or something very similar) before and Iíve always been curious about distance. At my swing speed I launch the ball VERY high and generate a lot of spin. One major swing fault being a steel AoA causing high spin loft. My question is at about 100mph for a pitching wedge, 110mph for a 6iron and 130mph for a driver....

If I just strengthen loft, Iíll end up hitting my wedge 180 and the gaps would get awfully strange Iíd think? At what point would say height and spin are just factors of speed and swing dynamics and that the flight Iím getting is what it is? Iíd love to flatten my flight (especially in to the wind) with just a normal swing but to some degree it just wonít happen correct?

Iím playing PX 7.0 in the irons and an 8* tour issued head set to ďlowerĒ (meaning it should be playing lower?) and Iím still a high ball hitter. Iíve been told both, I need to lower my flight and that my flight is great for my speed and to think of it as an advantage.

Iím curious what you think about my situation? At what point would you say ďdeal with your flightĒ rather than continuing to strengthen lofts? Thanks in adavance!!

Go see a good clubfitter, you are at a higher CS than the heads we play is made for, so we have to look at the small parameters too. Example, PX has a higher tip to butt deflection ratio vs DG, but even if these numbers seems small on the paper, real life is different so maybe i was "Lucky", but those PX players ive seen with a extreme high apex got way lower using DG. (In your case try DG X7)

Interesting! I keep going back and forth between the loft vs iron shaft. For one, itís very difficult to find fitters that carry the X7 or PX 7.0 let alone both so I went on a limb for the 7.0 moving from the C Taper 130x.

I may try to strengthen the lofts 2* strong from standard (I play p730s ant standard lofts) and see what happens since thatís an easy tweak. But Iíll certainly take this advice and keep looking for a fitter that carries the X7.

Thanks again for the advice!

I am in the same boat as you with the high swing speed.  I hit the ball super high and have trouble in high wind days.  The only shaft that has helped me was the PX 7.0, but I also hard stepped them to make them even stiffer.  I also would like to try the X7, but nobody carries them.  You just have to buy a set and try them out.  I live near Houston so I use Impact Precision Golf in Spring.  They are the official club fitter for the WLD so give them a call and ask for Trevor.

I ended up with the PX 7.0 as well, I didn't hard step, but I strengthened the lofts 2* and love the flight and feel. The interesting thing about getting fit is most fitters just donít know what to do. They look at me and just say ďthis is the stiffest I haveĒ with no real recommendations which is why Iíve ended up here asking for advice. Part of me wishes I hard stepped them, Iíd still like to try the X7, but honestly very happy coming from the C Taper.

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#773 ahdong

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 01:44 PM

+1 for the chart!

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