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New and Improved Shaft Chart


794 replies to this topic

#721 Dcoop86

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 11:21 PM

View PostEHolm, on 23 December 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

I tried both and went w the X7, on a track man it was slightly lower launch and apex. Spin was a touch lower but it was mainly feel that decided for me

Meaning the X7 felt better to you? Do mind describing the difference? And where did you have an opportunity to test them out?? I can't find anywhere that carries both for demo.


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#722 flog2

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 07:50 AM

sorry to ask but whats FCM and is the OP post the up to date one?

What do people see in this chart? not a critique just looking to understand more about shafts.

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#723 Stuart G.

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 08:09 AM

View PostPerseveringGolf, on 24 December 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

sorry to ask but whats FCM and is the OP post the up to date one?

FCM stands for (originally) Brunswick (later Royal Precision) Frequency Coefficient Matching scale.   Think of it as a numerical alternative to the more traditional flex labels such as ladies, senior, regular, stiff, x-stiff  (sometimes referred to as LARSX).

View PostPerseveringGolf, on 24 December 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

What do people see in this chart? not a critique just looking to understand more about shafts.

As many know, there is no standard for flex so people (mistakenly)  try to use this rating as a more uniform way to measure and compare 'flex' across different companies and different shaft models (which is the point of the table).   However, it's actually very poor way to do that since it's based on butt frequency - which is a very incomplete representation of the flex.   As with any other butt frequency matching - it's ONLY really useful in the context of matching shafts of the exact same model in a set.

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#724 franklin15

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:29 AM

would a club that is built 1/2" longer be the same as soft stepping?

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#725 Stuart G.

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:18 AM

View Postfranklin15, on 12 January 2018 - 01:29 AM, said:

would a club that is built 1/2" longer be the same as soft stepping?

No.  not even remotely the same.   Might even be closer to hard stepping IF you reduced the head weight to swing weight the same as it was at the shorter length.


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#726 EHolm

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 06:14 PM

Still no info on where the $-taper fit in?
PXG 0811X 7.5 Veylix Rome 888 X
PXG 0341X 3W 13.5 Veylix Rome 888 X
TaylorMade P790 2i UDI Veylix Rome 988 X
TaylorMade P770 4-7 KBS $-taper black 130 X
TaylorMade P750 8-PW KBS $-taper black 130 X
Titleist SM7 Jet black 50-12F KBS Tour custom white X
Titleist SM7 Jet black 56-10M KBS Tour custom white S
Titleist SM7 Jet black 62-06L KBS Tour custom white S
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#727 mdgates21

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:39 PM

Does anyone know where the AMT X100 would fall in this chart? Same as X100? The reason I ask is, I recently got those shafts and they feel more like the X100 SS1X. Just curious if anyone has ever checked them.

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#728 j-daniel

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 05:51 PM

View Postmdgates21, on 22 January 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Does anyone know where the AMT X100 would fall in this chart? Same as X100? The reason I ask is, I recently got those shafts and they feel more like the X100 SS1X. Just curious if anyone has ever checked them.

My understanding as I've been looking at getting some AMT X100 is that the 37" 9iron/wedge shaft is the same as normal dynamic gold in every which way. The differences come from there so in my understanding with every shaft being 3 grams lighter from there they are slightly softer iron to iron. So in some way through the set the are progressively softer as well as lighter compared to normal Dynamic Gold.

Which I hope will help me with some consistency in my longer irons.

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#729 Stuart G.

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 04:54 AM

According to TT, the bend profile is supposed to be consistent across all the weights.  They are not 'flighted' and supposedly they don't get softer as weight decreases into the longer irons.  Some might see a slight increase in launch in the longer shafts but that's because of small increases in swing speed from the lighter shafts, not because of a softening of the profile.

Edited by Stuart G., 23 January 2018 - 04:55 AM.


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#730 twjames

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:45 PM

View Postsmoky25, on 18 July 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

Howard Jones asked me to help him post his new and improved shaft chart. Enjoy. Click the chart to enlarge.

Great Chart!


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#731 twjames

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 04:32 PM

terrific chart!
great reference point!

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#732 ecfritts

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:54 PM

Great chart...I was wondering if the C taper stiff and C taper lite stiff are the same as far as the chart goes?  Obviously there is a weight difference, just wondering if they (lites) cycled less / softer.

Thanks.
913 D3
M4 - 15*
910H - 21*
Nike VPC - KBS $ Taper
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#733 PatsNation

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:33 AM

Need to get the DG 120s on there. Great chart

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#734 PaulCGaffney

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 08:14 PM

awesome resource. Thanks!
TM 2017 M1 8.5° - Aldila NV Protopype
Callaway XR16 4 Wood
Titleist T-MB 3 Iron
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Mizuno MP-63 5-PW
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#735 twjames

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:13 AM

this is great! lots of good info.


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#736 mizuno player

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 04:31 PM

Anything like this showing the Modus 3 tour shafts?

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#737 EHolm

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 04:32 PM

$-taper needed on here
PXG 0811X 7.5 Veylix Rome 888 X
PXG 0341X 3W 13.5 Veylix Rome 888 X
TaylorMade P790 2i UDI Veylix Rome 988 X
TaylorMade P770 4-7 KBS $-taper black 130 X
TaylorMade P750 8-PW KBS $-taper black 130 X
Titleist SM7 Jet black 50-12F KBS Tour custom white X
Titleist SM7 Jet black 56-10M KBS Tour custom white S
Titleist SM7 Jet black 62-06L KBS Tour custom white S
Odyssey Lucky 777 SB

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#738 rebby

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 04:42 PM

View PostEHolm, on 06 March 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

$-taper needed on here

+1
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#739 jasonp87

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 04:55 PM

Id love to see this updated and all Nippon Shafts included
Driver------TM M3 (8.5) Aldila NV 2KXV Orange 6X 45"
3W---------TM M3 (16) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 43.25"
5W---------TM M3 (19) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 42.25"
3i-----------TM TP UDI (20.5) Dynamic Gold X100
Irons-------Mizuno MP4 (4-PW) Modus 3 125X
Wedges---TM Milled Grind Modus 3 125X (48) & TM Hi-Toe (54)(60) Modus 3 125 Wedge
Putter------TM Spider Tour Black (DJ) 34" SS Pistol GTR

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#740 Howard Jones

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:25 AM

View Postjasonp87, on 06 March 2018 - 04:55 PM, said:

Id love to see this updated and all Nippon Shafts included

It want happen,unless someone-else does it, it want be me, and its been explained why, so anyone who feels the call to do it, just jump on it.


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#741 twjames

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:13 AM

Great Chart!
Thank you for your effort.

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#742 Violet07

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:33 AM

Awesome resource. Does anyone have information on where the Oban steel shafts fall on this chart?

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#743 mesegrn

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:26 PM

Howard,
I am currently playing project x 5.5 in my irons and my 5 iron is 38.5 inches in length. I like the swing weight (currently D4) but feel as though I'm spinning the ball too much and losing distance. I am thinking of going to a S400 or maybe stiffer with X100ss. Do you think this will help and what can I expect in terms of spin rate / ball flight? How can I keep the swing weight down as well?

Edited by mesegrn, 18 April 2018 - 06:27 PM.


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#744 Howard Jones

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

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#745 Dcoop86

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 10:56 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Ive seen you mention this (or something very similar) before and Ive always been curious about distance. At my swing speed I launch the ball VERY high and generate a lot of spin. One major swing fault being a steel AoA causing high spin loft. My question is at about 100mph for a pitching wedge, 110mph for a 6iron and 130mph for a driver....

If I just strengthen loft, Ill end up hitting my wedge 180 and the gaps would get awfully strange Id think? At what point would say height and spin are just factors of speed and swing dynamics and that the flight Im getting is what it is? Id love to flatten my flight (especially in to the wind) with just a normal swing but to some degree it just wont happen correct?

Im playing PX 7.0 in the irons and an 8* tour issued head set to lower (meaning it should be playing lower?) and Im still a high ball hitter. Ive been told both, I need to lower my flight and that my flight is great for my speed and to think of it as an advantage.

Im curious what you think about my situation? At what point would you say deal with your flight rather than continuing to strengthen lofts? Thanks in adavance!!


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#746 mesegrn

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:15 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

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#747 Howard Jones

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 09:26 AM

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

That depend on your swing. A shaft can add or reduce loft at impact, nothing else, and loft is loft, so if you think that a shaft who reduce loft by 1 or 2 is any different than adusting static loft 1 or 2, somesne filled your head with BS about shafts.

Your distance/Gapping will change no matter way we go, we cant overrule that, since what we are talking is still loft.

Some players get hung up in things like bounce, same same, if we tweak the head 1 or use a shaft that reduce loft by 1, we loose 1 of bounce, and we cant prevent that either so "Liking" loft specs is not very smart if you want a different ball flight, since thats a loft issue

Edited by Howard Jones, 19 April 2018 - 09:30 AM.


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#748 Howard Jones

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 09:41 AM

View PostDcoop86, on 18 April 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Ive seen you mention this (or something very similar) before and Ive always been curious about distance. At my swing speed I launch the ball VERY high and generate a lot of spin. One major swing fault being a steel AoA causing high spin loft. My question is at about 100mph for a pitching wedge, 110mph for a 6iron and 130mph for a driver....

If I just strengthen loft, Ill end up hitting my wedge 180 and the gaps would get awfully strange Id think? At what point would say height and spin are just factors of speed and swing dynamics and that the flight Im getting is what it is? Id love to flatten my flight (especially in to the wind) with just a normal swing but to some degree it just wont happen correct?

Im playing PX 7.0 in the irons and an 8* tour issued head set to lower (meaning it should be playing lower?) and Im still a high ball hitter. Ive been told both, I need to lower my flight and that my flight is great for my speed and to think of it as an advantage.

Im curious what you think about my situation? At what point would you say deal with your flight rather than continuing to strengthen lofts? Thanks in adavance!!

Go see a good clubfitter, you are at a higher CS than the heads we play is made for, so we have to look at the small parameters too. Example, PX has a higher tip to butt deflection ratio vs DG, but even if these numbers seems small on the paper, real life is different so maybe i was "Lucky", but those PX players ive seen with a extreme high apex got way lower using DG. (In your case try DG X7)

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#749 mesegrn

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:56 AM

View PostHoward Jones, on 19 April 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

View Postmesegrn, on 19 April 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

View PostHoward Jones, on 18 April 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Simply tweak lofts stronger.
To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

That depend on your swing. A shaft can add or reduce loft at impact, nothing else, and loft is loft, so if you think that a shaft who reduce loft by 1 or 2 is any different than adusting static loft 1 or 2, somesne filled your head with BS about shafts.

Your distance/Gapping will change no matter way we go, we cant overrule that, since what we are talking is still loft.

Some players get hung up in things like bounce, same same, if we tweak the head 1 or use a shaft that reduce loft by 1, we loose 1 of bounce, and we cant prevent that either so "Liking" loft specs is not very smart if you want a different ball flight, since thats a loft issue

I guess I need to be more specific. I don't want to change loft only because I don't hit the ball very high as it is, so I was assuming that decreasing the loft would make it worse. I am just looking for a shaft this will reduce the spin rate in my ball, not my loft.  So I was thinking that by going stiffer that it would achieve this goal. I pick the golf ball, not a digger at all. I hit pitching wedges all the time and never disturb the turf. So what about a shaft with as stiffer tip and active mid section like the Project X LZ?

Edited by mesegrn, 19 April 2018 - 11:58 AM.


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#750 Stuart G.

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 12:17 PM

The only thing the shaft can directly do to the ball flight is affect the dynamic loft based on the amount of forward shaft bend at impact.  That means spin and launch go up/down together.

Do you know what the numbers are that you are getting now that you think is a low launch but high spin?

Edited by Stuart G., 19 April 2018 - 12:20 PM.


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