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New and Improved Shaft Chart


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#691 Howard Jones

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:48 PM

View PostKirkNo-yes, on 06 September 2017 - 11:32 PM, said:

Howard- Need some help. I have been playing the PX Flighted 6.0 shafts forever. So much so I have pulled them twice now and put them into new sets.  Well I got my new Titleist 718 AP2's in and don't want to separate the shafts from the 716 heads.  I ordered them with Project X 6.5 shafts and while they don't feel overally stiff they feel JUST stiff enough to be annoying and they aren't as forgiving.  I have decided to soft step them once ( the PX 6.5 ) and am looking for some thoughts in how stiff they will play compared to the PX Flighted 6.0's. I have never understood how they achieved the flighted shafts.  I play DG Tour Issue S400 shafts in my wedges ( 58,54,50,46) and love the way they feel but fear they may be too soft in full shots. .  How would a set of s400 shafts play compared to the PX 6.5 shafts soft stepped 1 time. ? thanks in advance

Kirk

PX flighted is a "mixed set", where tip trim is changed to make them play to the same flex, so when you soft step 6.5 1x, you are getting closer, but that want be the same. Your PXF 6.0 LONG irons is close to PX 6.5 SSx2, so by going SS1 you go in that direction, but not all the way.
6.5 SS1 would still be stiffer than S400 strait in (S400 is very close to RIFLE FCM 6.0, so PX shafts with the same flex letters is a tad stronger)


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#692 KirkNo-yes

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 06:24 AM

Interesting. I really really appreciate this.  I want to figure this out quickly and get them up and running since I have the US Mid Am in October.

1. I know the S400 will "feel" a little softer since DG TI irons are softer in the butt. How much weaker will they play ( in your mind) over the 6.5ssx1 ?

2. What exact shafts would I need to purchase to replicate the 6.0 flighted for a 9-4 iron set.

3. I have a smooth transition and not a harsh one. I have tended to love PX shafts because they have stiff butts and I like to feel where the club is in my swing. BUT I have also fallen in love with how the S400's feel in my wedges and especially the PW so I'm wondering if maybe that is the shaft to go with for the whole set.  

4. In terms of feel and spin, what is your thought ( I am aware its based on observations and your years of experience) on how the 6.5's will feel being ssx1 versus the 6.0 flighted ones.


I REALLY appreciate the help. thank you so much.

Kirk
Driver - PING G400 LST 8.5 w/ Kuro Kage Silver 60g X
3wood- Titleist 917 15deg F2 w/ HZRDUS T1100 85 gram 6.5
5wood- Titleist 917 18deg F2 w/ HZRDUS T1100 95gram 6.5
Hybrid - Adams Prototype 18deg w/ Graphite Design AD 95 X
Irons- 4-9 - Titleist Tour Issue 718 AP2 w/ KBS C Taper Lite 115 X
Wedges- SM6 46deg Vokey F Grind ported w/ DG Tour Issue S400, SM6 50deg F grind ported w/ DG Tour Issue S400 , Vokey Prototype 54 V grind 10deg bounce w/ DG Tour Issue S400 low bounce, SM6 58deg K grind ported w/ DG Tour Issue S400
Putter - Scotty Cameron 1995 Gun Blue Laguna with micro step shaft.
Ball - 2017 Titleist Pro V1x

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#693 KirkNo-yes

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:15 PM

Well I spoke to a guy at True Temper and He said soft stepping a 6.5 will not soften them up like I am hoping they will.  Said the tip length is the same and they are already super close in stiffness already. He said I would be better off soft stepping the X-100 or Hard Stepping the S-400. I asked him where in terms of playing stiffness would the S400 be in PX terms.  He said they would be closer to the PX 5.5. That was shocking. I figured they would play stiffer than that.
Driver - PING G400 LST 8.5 w/ Kuro Kage Silver 60g X
3wood- Titleist 917 15deg F2 w/ HZRDUS T1100 85 gram 6.5
5wood- Titleist 917 18deg F2 w/ HZRDUS T1100 95gram 6.5
Hybrid - Adams Prototype 18deg w/ Graphite Design AD 95 X
Irons- 4-9 - Titleist Tour Issue 718 AP2 w/ KBS C Taper Lite 115 X
Wedges- SM6 46deg Vokey F Grind ported w/ DG Tour Issue S400, SM6 50deg F grind ported w/ DG Tour Issue S400 , Vokey Prototype 54 V grind 10deg bounce w/ DG Tour Issue S400 low bounce, SM6 58deg K grind ported w/ DG Tour Issue S400
Putter - Scotty Cameron 1995 Gun Blue Laguna with micro step shaft.
Ball - 2017 Titleist Pro V1x

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#694 freowho

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 05:48 AM

Love the chart in the OP. I didn't realise there was such a big gap between S and X in the dynamic gold.
I'm keen for some feedback on a conundrum I have. I was fitted into an x7 shaft for 4-gap wedge. I've now had the irons for a couple of weeks and realise I must have been on drugs during the clubfit. They're a bit stiff. I was thinking of getting them soft stepped 2 clubs which makes them close to an X100 and then just putting a standard X100 in the 4 and 5 iron. The x7's weren't a stock shaft for the club builder (the club builder didn't do the clubfit) and took a while to come in and cost a bit more.
Does this seem reasonable?

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#695 PerseveringGolf

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 06:26 AM

View Postfreowho, on 10 September 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

Love the chart in the OP. I didn't realise there was such a big gap between S and X in the dynamic gold.
I'm keen for some feedback on a conundrum I have. I was fitted into an x7 shaft for 4-gap wedge. I've now had the irons for a couple of weeks and realise I must have been on drugs during the clubfit. They're a bit stiff. I was thinking of getting them soft stepped 2 clubs which makes them close to an X100 and then just putting a standard X100 in the 4 and 5 iron. The x7's weren't a stock shaft for the club builder (the club builder didn't do the clubfit) and took a while to come in and cost a bit more.
Does this seem reasonable?

as its nearly 8 years old I wonder if its still relevant


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#696 freowho

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 06:57 AM

View PostPerseveringGolf, on 10 September 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

View Postfreowho, on 10 September 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

Love the chart in the OP. I didn't realise there was such a big gap between S and X in the dynamic gold.
I'm keen for some feedback on a conundrum I have. I was fitted into an x7 shaft for 4-gap wedge. I've now had the irons for a couple of weeks and realise I must have been on drugs during the clubfit. They're a bit stiff. I was thinking of getting them soft stepped 2 clubs which makes them close to an X100 and then just putting a standard X100 in the 4 and 5 iron. The x7's weren't a stock shaft for the club builder (the club builder didn't do the clubfit) and took a while to come in and cost a bit more.
Does this seem reasonable?

as its nearly 8 years old I wonder if its still relevant

The x7's aren't 8 years old so I assume the chart gets updated.

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#697 Howard Jones

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 10:18 AM

View Postfreowho, on 10 September 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

View PostPerseveringGolf, on 10 September 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

View Postfreowho, on 10 September 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

Love the chart in the OP. I didn't realise there was such a big gap between S and X in the dynamic gold.
I'm keen for some feedback on a conundrum I have. I was fitted into an x7 shaft for 4-gap wedge. I've now had the irons for a couple of weeks and realise I must have been on drugs during the clubfit. They're a bit stiff. I was thinking of getting them soft stepped 2 clubs which makes them close to an X100 and then just putting a standard X100 in the 4 and 5 iron. The x7's weren't a stock shaft for the club builder (the club builder didn't do the clubfit) and took a while to come in and cost a bit more.
Does this seem reasonable?

as its nearly 8 years old I wonder if its still relevant

The x7's aren't 8 years old so I assume the chart gets updated.

The X7 is not new, its reintroduced after being off the marked a few years, so that chart has not been updated since it was posted.

There is tons of new models out that many ask for, but using butt CPM alone is NOT a good way to compare shafts of different models, so the "value" of it will be just as limited as the chart in this tread.

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#698 Howard Jones

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 10:38 AM

View Postfreowho, on 10 September 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

Love the chart in the OP. I didn't realise there was such a big gap between S and X in the dynamic gold.
I'm keen for some feedback on a conundrum I have. I was fitted into an x7 shaft for 4-gap wedge. I've now had the irons for a couple of weeks and realise I must have been on drugs during the clubfit. They're a bit stiff. I was thinking of getting them soft stepped 2 clubs which makes them close to an X100 and then just putting a standard X100 in the 4 and 5 iron. The x7's weren't a stock shaft for the club builder (the club builder didn't do the clubfit) and took a while to come in and cost a bit more.
Does this seem reasonable?

You failed the first time, so instead of doing a new mistake (maybe you destroy a expensive set of shafts by going SS2),
Go and try X100 and see how that works before you make up your mind.

8

#699 Cwebb

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 12:16 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 10 September 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

View Postfreowho, on 10 September 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

Love the chart in the OP. I didn't realise there was such a big gap between S and X in the dynamic gold.
I'm keen for some feedback on a conundrum I have. I was fitted into an x7 shaft for 4-gap wedge. I've now had the irons for a couple of weeks and realise I must have been on drugs during the clubfit. They're a bit stiff. I was thinking of getting them soft stepped 2 clubs which makes them close to an X100 and then just putting a standard X100 in the 4 and 5 iron. The x7's weren't a stock shaft for the club builder (the club builder didn't do the clubfit) and took a while to come in and cost a bit more.
Does this seem reasonable?

You failed the first time, so instead of doing a new mistake (maybe you destroy a expensive set of shafts by going SS2),
Go and try X100 and see how that works before you make up your mind.

Agreed.  Pull the shafts, sell them as is, and get a whole new set of X100's

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#700 Cwebb

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 12:25 PM

View PostKirkNo-yes, on 07 September 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:


3. I have a smooth transition and not a harsh one. I have tended to love PX shafts because they have stiff butts and I like to feel where the club is in my swing. BUT I have also fallen in love with how the S400's feel in my wedges and especially the PW so I'm wondering if maybe that is the shaft to go with for the whole set.  

Kirk

If it were me, I'd do S400's in your wedge set, an S300 in your PW, and then PX 5.5 in the rest of your iron set.  Don't go higher in flex than 5.5, because then the rest of your irons will be a lot stiffer in proportion to your Pw.  The irons with the PX would require a little additional head weight to get them weighted in proportion to your wedges with DG's.

Keep in mind than an S400 is only a couple cycles stiffer than an S300.  Since the same "discreet length" shaft is used for 9-wedges in DG, the S400 shaft would not end up stiffer in your lofted wedges in proportion to what the S3 would be in your Pw.  They would actually be softer, since most wedges have longer hosels and heavier head weights than a "set" Pw


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#701 freowho

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 08:00 PM

View PostPerseveringGolf, on 10 September 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

as its nearly 8 years old I wonder if its still relevant

View PostHoward Jones, on 10 September 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

The X7 is not new, its reintroduced after being off the marked a few years, so that chart has not been updated since it was posted.

There is tons of new models out that many ask for, but using butt CPM alone is NOT a good way to compare shafts of different models, so the "value" of it will be just as limited as the chart in this tread.

View PostHoward Jones, on 10 September 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

You failed the first time, so instead of doing a new mistake (maybe you destroy a expensive set of shafts by going SS2),
Go and try X100 and see how that works before you make up your mind.

View PostCwebb, on 10 September 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

Agreed.  Pull the shafts, sell them as is, and get a whole new set of X100's

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

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#702 xoted

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 07:53 PM

I have a set of mp 25s with px 5.5 precision
My understanding has been that they are between regular and stiff

Fitter today put them on the frequency machine, my 37.5 inch 7 iron came in at 330. Which, according to the chart, puts it between xstiff and xsstiff. I do not have an xstiff, much less xxstiff swing... the fitter was just stunned I was swinging 'such stiff' clubs

While there I swung some ap2s with the kbs $taper 120 g's. They felt great.

Are my px's that much different? Or was it the club head that was making the difference? Is my fitter not really in the know measuring this way?

Ballstriking seemed 3x better with the ap2s.

But understanding the difference in between the kbs and px is just so beyond my knowledge level...

Edited by xoted, 22 September 2017 - 07:56 PM.


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#703 Howard Jones

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 02:56 AM

View Postxoted, on 22 September 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

I have a set of mp 25s with px 5.5 precision
My understanding has been that they are between regular and stiff

Fitter today put them on the frequency machine, my 37.5 inch 7 iron came in at 330. Which, according to the chart, puts it between xstiff and xsstiff. I do not have an xstiff, much less xxstiff swing... the fitter was just stunned I was swinging 'such stiff' clubs

While there I swung some ap2s with the kbs $taper 120 g's. They felt great.

Are my px's that much different? Or was it the club head that was making the difference? Is my fitter not really in the know measuring this way?

Ballstriking seemed 3x better with the ap2s.

But understanding the difference in between the kbs and px is just so beyond my knowledge level...

Project X 5.5 is 115 grams uncut and is considered to be FCM 6.0, yours came in at FCM 6.1 (330 CPM at 37.50 is FCM 6.1 - its normal that they vary a bit). KBS C taper is designed by the same man as PX and they are very close as a hole, but C-taper S is 120 grams uncut, and flex is FCM 6.2, so those C-taper have 5 grams extra weight and a few decimals stronger flex.

You might benefit from both the extra weight (who is more important than flex) and heads who works better in your hands, but you should try them side by side using AP2 heads. (PX 5.5 vs C-taper 120 S)

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#704 xoted

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:07 AM

Thanks. Kind of worries me that the fitter I was working with didnt know that.

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#705 Howard Jones

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:29 AM

View Postxoted, on 23 September 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

Thanks. Kind of worries me that the fitter I was working with didnt know that.

i thought this was "old news".... you can read this info strait out of the chart ive made on page 1 in this tread, and that post is from July 18 - 2011....
Normally a butt CPM test only as a compare of 2 different shaft models is useless, but in this case, they are close over all, so we get the picture of how strong they are compared, and in this case so close they are within what we would call "tolerances", so consider them to be close to "equal", but with a weight difference of 5 grams. (not much that either, but sometimes thats all it takes to improve something that dont work right, or mess up something that works)

To really get to know whats the best, or what made the difference, they should be tested side by side with the same head


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#706 xoted

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:45 AM

Yeah it probably is old news, but I'm new to golf so it's all new to me. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. I realize all this info is here, but it's difficult and time consuming to find and piece together when you don't know anything about it. My real concern was whether my club fitter knew what he was talking about but it seems he doesnt.

I also have read the size of the clamp used to measure cpm can have a big affect on the reading.

I think the bottom line is I need to go somewhere with lots of different shafts and club heads and go through comparing similar setups swapping one piece and see how things feel.

16

#707 SARF

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:07 PM

Hi all,

Wonder if you might be able to offer some advice.

Had a fitting today and want to make sure I am in the ballpark on what I am ordering...

Have 2 sets. Some Taylor Made MC TP with S300s

Managed to get a good deal on a set of Miura CB501's with PX6.0 shafts in them.

The PX's seemed a little too much for me when not swinging well. So went to try a fitting for replacement shafts today for the Miuras.

Ended up being fitted for KBS TOUR 130g X flex. Any opinions whether these might also be too much for me? Went well in fitting, but maybe that environment, multiple swings in a row, no risk etc, meant I swing harder?


Some details on me. Short and stocky. Was generally a bit of a high ball flipper, working on getting more forward lean to help that with deeper hip turn and more vertical wrist c0ck.. was swinging on Trackman today, 7 iron around 90mph. 93mph if I really stepped on it. Fitter said my transition was relatively smooth. Smash factor generally only around 1.3 on average.

Think he chose them to keep ball flight down? He was adamant I needed an X, tried a few different ones.

Any opinions? According to the chart these are stiffer than the PX6.0's?

Cheers

Martin.

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#708 SARF

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:31 PM

Oh and also. I had a Cleveland gap wedge (50degree) with a wedge flex shaft, so am looking to get that changed to the same shaft as above as I mainly use it for full shots and maybe some chips and runs.

Given my above concerns, is this a good idea? Maybe same question for the shorter irons Or PW?

Sorry for all the questions.

Cheers

18

#709 SARF

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 12:03 PM

View PostSARF, on 20 November 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

Hi all,

Wonder if you might be able to offer some advice.

Had a fitting today and want to make sure I am in the ballpark on what I am ordering...

Have 2 sets. Some Taylor Made MC TP with S300s

Managed to get a good deal on a set of Miura CB501's with PX6.0 shafts in them.

The PX's seemed a little too much for me when not swinging well. So went to try a fitting for replacement shafts today for the Miuras.

Ended up being fitted for KBS TOUR 130g X flex. Any opinions whether these might also be too much for me? Went well in fitting, but maybe that environment, multiple swings in a row, no risk etc, meant I swing harder?


Some details on me. Short and stocky. Was generally a bit of a high ball flipper, working on getting more forward lean to help that with deeper hip turn and more vertical wrist c0ck.. was swinging on Trackman today, 7 iron around 90mph. 93mph if I really stepped on it. Fitter said my transition was relatively smooth. Smash factor generally only around 1.3 on average.

Think he chose them to keep ball flight down? He was adamant I needed an X, tried a few different ones.

Any opinions? According to the chart these are stiffer than the PX6.0's?

Cheers

Martin.

Ended up going with KBS TOUR 130g X flex soft stepped..

19

#710 jackzhang

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 05:29 PM

great post! thanks for sharing.


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#711 EHolm

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:21 PM

Been back a few pages but canít seem to find anything on the KBS $-taper. Any info available?
PXG 0811X 7,5° Veylix Rome 888 X
PXG 0341X 3W 13.5° Veylix Rome 888 X
Titleist T-MB 17° Veylix Rome 988 X
Titleist T-MB 20° DG X7
TaylorMade P770 4-7 DG X7
TaylorMade P750 8-PW DG X7
Titleist SM6 52-08, 58-08 Shimada Tour Wedge Black
Odyssey Lucky 777 SB

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#712 tony_stark

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:30 PM

man this chart is extremely helpful!
Callaway GBB Epic Sub-Zero 10.5 fujikura atmos black tour spec 6
Ping G400 3 & 5 wood fujikura speeder pro tour spec 74
Mizuno mp-18 fli hi graphite design tour ad di 85
Mizuno jpx 900 forged 4-6 kbs tour
Mizuno jpx 900 tour 7-pw kbs tour
Taylormade milled grind wedges 50, 54, 58
Scotty Cameron newport 2 teryllium

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#713 fettuccine

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:26 PM

Howard,

Previously used to play DG S300 and recently switched over to DG R300.  Like the feel of the R300 much better, as I can feel the shaft load, but tend to overcook the ball on occasion.   Thinking of hardstepping the R300 1x.  How much will this stiffen the shaft?  Will I even be able to tell the difference?

23

#714 EHolm

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 04:47 PM

View Postfettuccine, on 11 December 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

Howard,

Previously used to play DG S300 and recently switched over to DG R300.  Like the feel of the R300 much better, as I can feel the shaft load, but tend to overcook the ball on occasion.   Thinking of hardstepping the R300 1x.  How much will this stiffen the shaft?  Will I even be able to tell the difference?
Look at the chart and it tells you.
DG R300 standard 4.8, hardstepped once 5.1
DG S300 softstepped twice 5.2, once 5.5, standard 5.8
PXG 0811X 7,5° Veylix Rome 888 X
PXG 0341X 3W 13.5° Veylix Rome 888 X
Titleist T-MB 17° Veylix Rome 988 X
Titleist T-MB 20° DG X7
TaylorMade P770 4-7 DG X7
TaylorMade P750 8-PW DG X7
Titleist SM6 52-08, 58-08 Shimada Tour Wedge Black
Odyssey Lucky 777 SB

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#715 fettuccine

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:55 PM

I did take a look at the chart.  I guess my main question is will I feel the difference in hardstepping the shaft 1x and will this slightly cure my pull/draw if it is a shaft issue....

View PostEHolm, on 12 December 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

View Postfettuccine, on 11 December 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

Howard,

Previously used to play DG S300 and recently switched over to DG R300.  Like the feel of the R300 much better, as I can feel the shaft load, but tend to overcook the ball on occasion.   Thinking of hardstepping the R300 1x.  How much will this stiffen the shaft?  Will I even be able to tell the difference?
Look at the chart and it tells you.
DG R300 standard 4.8, hardstepped once 5.1
DG S300 softstepped twice 5.2, once 5.5, standard 5.8


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#716 onafriday

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:08 PM

Would love to see the Nippon family added to the charts.
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#717 mgholda

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 04:51 PM

View PostEHolm, on 07 December 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

Been back a few pages but can't seem to find anything on the KBS $-taper. Any info available?
Some thing here. Would definitely appreciate any information.
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#718 Dcoop86

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 05:33 PM

For the DG X7 and the PX 7.0 for a golfer with a swing speed of 110mph with a 6 iron, high ball flight, lots of spin and about a 3/4 length swing with most irons. Is there going to be any differences outside of feel? I'm trying to follow the info presented but to be honest I'm getting lost. Currently play a C Taper X stuff at +0.5" over standard. Looking to drop spin mostly but wouldn't mind a lower flight in the short irons as well. I can't find a single fitter in the California area that carries either shaft option.

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#719 EHolm

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:01 PM

I tried both and went w the X7, on a track man it was slightly lower launch and apex. Spin was a touch lower but it was mainly feel that decided for me
PXG 0811X 7,5° Veylix Rome 888 X
PXG 0341X 3W 13.5° Veylix Rome 888 X
Titleist T-MB 17° Veylix Rome 988 X
Titleist T-MB 20° DG X7
TaylorMade P770 4-7 DG X7
TaylorMade P750 8-PW DG X7
Titleist SM6 52-08, 58-08 Shimada Tour Wedge Black
Odyssey Lucky 777 SB

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#720 jdonnici

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:18 PM

Fantastic thread and thanks to Howard for all the q/a. I just bought the Mizuno MP-18sc irons with the KBS C-Taper lite in S flex. I'm coming from the MP-25's with PX 5.5. Personal testing - the feel of the KBS shafts felt much less harsh than the PX at roughly the same weight. Butt stiffness is likely why, but the entirety of that C-Taper lite bend profile just felt ideal for me.

I'm wondering if anyone has the FCM numbers on that C-Taper Lite...all I've seen is numbers for the other KBS shafts. Sorry if this was already posted and I've missed it, any help would be great!

Edited by jdonnici, 23 December 2017 - 10:20 PM.

TaylorMade M1 2017 440cc 9.5, HZRDUS black 6.0 tipped 1"
Titleist 915F 15* 3W Diamana White D+80 X-flex
Titleist 915F 18* (A4 setting to 19.5*) 5W Diamana White D+80 X-flex
Mizuno MP-25 3-PW, 2*Upright, PX 5.5 Steel
Titleist Vokey SM6 Steel Grey 50*/8 Gap F Grind, 56*/14 Sand F Grind, 60*/8 Lob M Grind, PX 5.5 Steel
Scotty Cameron Newport mid slant 2000, 33.25"
Titleist ProV1

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