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New and Improved Shaft Chart


673 replies to this topic

#661 Howard Jones

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:14 AM

 Trap Junior, on 23 April 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

I was at the Mizuno fitting centre.  I was amazed that I was recommended the 6.5 Project X in MP5.   I have been playing olf Rifle 6.5 for years and was getting the feeling that they were too stiff and heavy for me these days.  I always thought that PX were more harsh feeling and played even stiffer so quite confused tbh.

Stupidly I forgot to pay attention to the Swing DNA numbers but I do recall the speed on it was 92.  They also used Trackman and my 6 iron was 88mph avg but if I decided to hit one a bit harder it went to 92mph.  6.5 PX sound like a good fit??

The optimizer is only a tool to find a staring point, NOT a suggestion for what to buy, but what to try for a fitting session, so its a "dynamic" type of static fitting, nothing more.


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#662 Howard Jones

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:22 AM

 Scooter321, on 23 April 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

 Howard Jones, on 23 April 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

 Scooter321, on 22 April 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I am sure this has been answered in here but cant find it in such a large chain. How does Project X compare to Dynamic Gold in terms of spin, ball flight and launch angle? Thanks in advance.

PX vs DG is the exception from the rule where launch and spin goes 1:1, so the general consensus is that PX has a slightly higher launch, but with a little less spin than DG, but it all depend on the players swing. Feel and weight is different, so do choose one vs the other based on this since ball flight is only a question of loft at impact and should be tweaked that way. Go by weight feel and dispersion, NOT ball flight.

Thanks Howard. What would you say is the ideal spin and launch angle for a 7 iron? Also for someone whose 7 iron club head speed is 92mph and is a bit more of a hitter than a swinger what flex in PX would you recommend?

What feels and works the best for the conditions you normally play, and that could be PX 6.0 at 120 grams, PX 6.5 at 125 grams or DG X100 at 130 grams. If 120 or 125 grams turns out to be the best, but standard PX feels to stiff, try PX LZ......soft or hard stepping is also a option.

There is no such thing as "ideal" spin and launch, its all due to conditions and what we seek.
If you play a lot of windy cources, or typical links Golf, launch and spin should be lower than for lower wind or typical "target golf", so its just like with driver fitting, do we want maximized Carry or Total, or a mix of both?

Look at PGA average numbers, they are AVERAGE, not IDEAL, but tells about of what the ball park this numbers is on the tour and they have the same club speed you have, but it vary a lot from player to player on all numbers and for many reasons.

https://i0.wp.com/bl...?resize=680,503

Edited by Howard Jones, 23 April 2017 - 07:23 AM.


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#663 Scooter321

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:54 AM

 Howard Jones, on 23 April 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

 Scooter321, on 23 April 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

 Howard Jones, on 23 April 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

 Scooter321, on 22 April 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I am sure this has been answered in here but cant find it in such a large chain. How does Project X compare to Dynamic Gold in terms of spin, ball flight and launch angle? Thanks in advance.

PX vs DG is the exception from the rule where launch and spin goes 1:1, so the general consensus is that PX has a slightly higher launch, but with a little less spin than DG, but it all depend on the players swing. Feel and weight is different, so do choose one vs the other based on this since ball flight is only a question of loft at impact and should be tweaked that way. Go by weight feel and dispersion, NOT ball flight.

Thanks Howard. What would you say is the ideal spin and launch angle for a 7 iron? Also for someone whose 7 iron club head speed is 92mph and is a bit more of a hitter than a swinger what flex in PX would you recommend?

What feels and works the best for the conditions you normally play, and that could be PX 6.0 at 120 grams, PX 6.5 at 125 grams or DG X100 at 130 grams. If 120 or 125 grams turns out to be the best, but standard PX feels to stiff, try PX LZ......soft or hard stepping is also a option.

There is no such thing as "ideal" spin and launch, its all due to conditions and what we seek.
If you play a lot of windy cources, or typical links Golf, launch and spin should be lower than for lower wind or typical "target golf", so its just like with driver fitting, do we want maximized Carry or Total, or a mix of both?

Look at PGA average numbers, they are AVERAGE, not IDEAL, but tells about of what the ball park this numbers is on the tour and they have the same club speed you have, but it vary a lot from player to player on all numbers and for many reasons.

https://i0.wp.com/bl...?resize=680,503

Very helpful. How would you say KBS tour fits into the mix with DG and PX in terms of spin and launch? Also what are the differences in kick profiles between these shafts?
Titleist 915D2 9.5° Aldila Rogue Silver 60X
Sonartec NP-99 15° Aldila NV 75S
Taylormade Rescue TP 19° Dynamic Gold S300
Ping i200 4-UW Project X 6.0
Titleist Vokey SM4 54-14 F Grind and 58-06 L Grind Oil Can Finish Dynamic Gold S200
Gauge Design GAA3 ETBW Putter
Bridgestone B330S

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#664 Howard Jones

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:44 AM

 Scooter321, on 23 April 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

 Howard Jones, on 23 April 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

 Scooter321, on 23 April 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

 Howard Jones, on 23 April 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

 Scooter321, on 22 April 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I am sure this has been answered in here but cant find it in such a large chain. How does Project X compare to Dynamic Gold in terms of spin, ball flight and launch angle? Thanks in advance.

PX vs DG is the exception from the rule where launch and spin goes 1:1, so the general consensus is that PX has a slightly higher launch, but with a little less spin than DG, but it all depend on the players swing. Feel and weight is different, so do choose one vs the other based on this since ball flight is only a question of loft at impact and should be tweaked that way. Go by weight feel and dispersion, NOT ball flight.

Thanks Howard. What would you say is the ideal spin and launch angle for a 7 iron? Also for someone whose 7 iron club head speed is 92mph and is a bit more of a hitter than a swinger what flex in PX would you recommend?

What feels and works the best for the conditions you normally play, and that could be PX 6.0 at 120 grams, PX 6.5 at 125 grams or DG X100 at 130 grams. If 120 or 125 grams turns out to be the best, but standard PX feels to stiff, try PX LZ......soft or hard stepping is also a option.

There is no such thing as "ideal" spin and launch, its all due to conditions and what we seek.
If you play a lot of windy cources, or typical links Golf, launch and spin should be lower than for lower wind or typical "target golf", so its just like with driver fitting, do we want maximized Carry or Total, or a mix of both?

Look at PGA average numbers, they are AVERAGE, not IDEAL, but tells about of what the ball park this numbers is on the tour and they have the same club speed you have, but it vary a lot from player to player on all numbers and for many reasons.

https://i0.wp.com/bl...?resize=680,503

Very helpful. How would you say KBS tour fits into the mix with DG and PX in terms of spin and launch? Also what are the differences in kick profiles between these shafts?

KBS Tour X would be a tad above PX 6.5 on both launch and spin, again dending on your swing, but you have to try the options out there, how it looks on the paper want tell how it feels and work. KBS C-Taper is closer to PX than KBS Tour

Edited by Howard Jones, 23 April 2017 - 08:45 AM.


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#665 maowv

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:20 PM

Does anyone have the CPM numbers for the Nippon shafts?

Modus3 105/120/125/130?


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#666 Scooter321

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 06:19 PM

Howard - if you put Project X in your irons what are your thoughts in terms of wedges?
Titleist 915D2 9.5° Aldila Rogue Silver 60X
Sonartec NP-99 15° Aldila NV 75S
Taylormade Rescue TP 19° Dynamic Gold S300
Ping i200 4-UW Project X 6.0
Titleist Vokey SM4 54-14 F Grind and 58-06 L Grind Oil Can Finish Dynamic Gold S200
Gauge Design GAA3 ETBW Putter
Bridgestone B330S

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#667 Howard Jones

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 12:33 AM

 Scooter321, on 30 April 2017 - 06:19 PM, said:

Howard - if you put Project X in your irons what are your thoughts in terms of wedges?

Depends on how you play them and what preference you have for weight in wedges.
Out on the Tour we see players going softer, still using PX as wedge, and that means loosing weight....not my cup of tea, i would rather use a #8 iron from 0.5 or 1.0 flex stronger (6.0 to 6.5 #8 or 6.0 to 7.0 #8)

http://www.golfwrx.c...dge-experiment/

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#668 SILVERFOX1

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 01:58 AM

Howard, I use modus 120 stiff shafts as I like shafts with a softer butt section. For a driver shaft which ones would you recommend with a softer butt section? Thanks

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#669 Fick9

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 07:24 PM

 Howard Jones, on 20 July 2011 - 09:02 AM, said:

mbbrewer is right, it show different options for install, and what FCM values those gives.

X-100 strait in, will be 6.8, and so is KBS Tour S Hard stepped 1x (hs)
X-100 soft stepped once (ss) is 6.5, and so is PX 6.0 strait in, and KBS Tour S+ strait in, and C Taper stiff hard stepped once,
X-100 soft stepped twice (ssx2) is 6.2 , so is PX 6.5 Soft stepped 2x (ssx2), so is KBS C Taper stiff strait in, and so is KBS Tour S+ soft stepped 1x (ss)

You will also find the weight uncut for the shaft as Taper tip

If fitting shows that a certain cpm value will fit a specific player, 1 cpm up or down does not matter, so if target cpm is 6.8 like x-100 strait in, you have this options on THIS chart.

132 Gram - Tour X 7 ssx2 = 6.9 FCM
130 Gram - PX 7.0 SSx2 = 6.7 FCM
130 Gram - KBS Tour X = 6.7 FCM
130 Gram - X-100 = 6.8 FCM
125 Gram - KBS c-Taper S+ = 6.7 FCM
125 Gram - KBS Tour HS = 6.8 FCM
120 Gram - PX 6.0 Hs = 6.9 FCM
108 Gram - X-100 Super Light = 6.8

This chart DOES NOT say that this shafts will feel the same, or perform as the same.
Its only a chart to fit the need for e certain Cpm strength due to club speed and parameters from the players swing who adjust from club speed.

Well put!

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#670 Chunk777

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 10:10 AM

Any idea on CPM for KBS Tour V Stiff?

M1 440-M2 Tour-816H2-MP25-Vokey -Scotty -Snell MTB

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#671 drvrwdge

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 03:15 PM

I was recently fitted by a local club fitter who is also the equipment guy for a local division one college and in my fitting he stated that when you lengthen a stepless shaft like the c taper or the project X they actually increase in stiffness. Is there any truth in this?

Edited by drvrwdge, 21 June 2017 - 05:56 PM.

Ping G LS Tec 10.5 5g Hotmelt, PX HZRDUS Yellow Hand Crafted 75 6.5 Tipped 1"
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#672 Howard Jones

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 12:06 AM

 drvrwdge, on 21 June 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I was recently fitted by a local club fitter who is also the equipment guy for a local division one college and in my fitting he stated that when you lengthen a stepless shaft like the c taper or the project X they actually increase in stiffness. Is there any truth in this?

Its not that "easy".....
The butt side is always the stiffest part of a shaft, so if we compare 2 shafts of the same model at the same length, the one with longest butt section will be the stiffest. (that should be common knowledge).

Scenario 2 is what happens when we go longer, or to a play length longer than standard?
That depend on the shaft profile.....RIFLE FCM go stronger when we go longer, and thats caused by its very stiff butt section vs the rest of the shaft, while a shaft like Project X seems to "stay in flex".

Dont forget that there is no standard for flex, except for RIFLE FCM and some KBS models, so to judge any changes, we need to know what original slope that shaft model has. Rifle FCM is "only" 4 CPM for each 0.5 inch, so if we loose less than 4 CPM when adding 0.5 inch (and we do), that means we went stronger. For a shaft like Dynamic Gold the slope is about 5 CPM, so to "stay in flex" a ,loss of 5 CPM going 0.5 longer is what we should expect, if we loose more than 5, that means we went softer.

There is no connection between step less and stepped shafts here, its a question of how strong the butt section is vs the rest, and what CPM slope that model has, so we cant say that "step less shafts go stronger", as far as i know thats true only for RIFLE FCM (maybe also for some KBS models, but not for PX)

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#673 Mr. Grumpy

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:16 AM

Question: I play a PX 6.0 Flighted, soft stepped once, +1/2 length in my B'stone J40 DPC's. I was fit to them, but had the option of DG S300, and the KBS Tour stiff. I am ready to move on.
I like the PX fine, maybe a little boardy and neutral feeling. But now looking for something different in a new set. My plan as of this writing is to order the Cobra F7 One's but i am unsure where to start with shafts. KBS now have a lot of options, well they all do. It's all a little bit maddening.

I am older now since my last purchase, ss is 81 with a 7i. I tried graphite in another set, did not like the light weight. So barring a new fitting, where would be a great place to start. Thanks in advance for the help...
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#674 Howard Jones

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:30 AM

 Mr. Grumpy, on 22 June 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

Question: I play a PX 6.0 Flighted, soft stepped once, +1/2 length in my B'stone J40 DPC's. I was fit to them, but had the option of DG S300, and the KBS Tour stiff. I am ready to move on.
I like the PX fine, maybe a little boardy and neutral feeling. But now looking for something different in a new set. My plan as of this writing is to order the Cobra F7 One's but i am unsure where to start with shafts. KBS now have a lot of options, well they all do. It's all a little bit maddening.

I am older now since my last purchase, ss is 81 with a 7i. I tried graphite in another set, did not like the light weight. So barring a new fitting, where would be a great place to start. Thanks in advance for the help...

Shaft choice starts with WEIGHT, so all i can say is that you found the graphite you tried to light, then set a mark at that weight as to low.
Now ask yourself about those PX 6.0 F, ....they might be a little heavy now?....then you know both ends, and that your next shaft is closer to ? than the other.....thats how we move on, by eliminating options outside the weight range we fits to play (plus minus 5 grams)

When weight is found, then its time to look at what options there is in that range, and today we find both steel and graphite up to above 130 grams so dont eliminate graphite because the ones you tried was to light.

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