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Compact Swing + Proper shoulder turn


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#1 beyerskid

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:47 AM

I feel like my ball striking is best when I am "compact." Feels like a "shorter" backswing. Then I hear "you need more shoulder turn"... Is it possible to stay "compact" yet still get good shoulder turn? I feel like the more I turn the easier it is to get off track with the arms/hands.

I just can't see it right mentally. How do I get a compact backswing with proper shoulder turn? Any ideas on how to reconcile these two swing thoughts?


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#2 cbrian

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:55 AM

Keep the arms connected




#3 russc

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:09 AM

View Postbeyerskid, on 28 May 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I feel like my ball striking is best when I am "compact." Feels like a "shorter" backswing. Then I hear "you need more shoulder turn"... Is it possible to stay "compact" yet still get good shoulder turn? I feel like the more I turn the easier it is to get off track with the arms/hands.

I just can't see it right mentally. How do I get a compact backswing with proper shoulder turn? Any ideas on how to reconcile these two swing thoughts?

Stop your arm swing as soon as the shoulder turn stops.The idea is have your arms and body connected going back. For most people who" runoff" with their arms at the last stage of the backswing,the connected  backswing will feel shorter and thus more compact.You might also need to feel that the brace of the right  knee is maintained throughout the backswing.This brace will naturally restrict your hip turn,but will allow you to complete your shoulder turn and give a feeling of a more compact backswing.

Edited by russc, 28 May 2011 - 09:13 AM.


#4 DaveLeeNC

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:40 AM

View Postrussc, on 28 May 2011 - 09:09 AM, said:

View Postbeyerskid, on 28 May 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I feel like my ball striking is best when I am "compact." Feels like a "shorter" backswing. Then I hear "you need more shoulder turn"... Is it possible to stay "compact" yet still get good shoulder turn? I feel like the more I turn the easier it is to get off track with the arms/hands.

I just can't see it right mentally. How do I get a compact backswing with proper shoulder turn? Any ideas on how to reconcile these two swing thoughts?

Stop your arm swing as soon as the shoulder turn stops.The idea is have your arms and body connected going back. For most people who" runoff" with their arms at the last stage of the backswing,the connected  backswing will feel shorter and thus more compact.You might also need to feel that the brace of the right  knee is maintained throughout the backswing.This brace will naturally restrict your hip turn,but will allow you to complete your shoulder turn and give a feeling of a more compact backswing.

I was going to type what Russ just said, but it is so much easier to just copy it.

dave

#5 cbrian

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:09 AM

View Postrussc, on 28 May 2011 - 09:09 AM, said:

View Postbeyerskid, on 28 May 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I feel like my ball striking is best when I am "compact." Feels like a "shorter" backswing. Then I hear "you need more shoulder turn"... Is it possible to stay "compact" yet still get good shoulder turn? I feel like the more I turn the easier it is to get off track with the arms/hands.

I just can't see it right mentally. How do I get a compact backswing with proper shoulder turn? Any ideas on how to reconcile these two swing thoughts?

Stop your arm swing as soon as the shoulder turn stops.The idea is have your arms and body connected going back. For most people who" runoff" with their arms at the last stage of the backswing,the connected  backswing will feel shorter and thus more compact.You might also need to feel that the brace of the right  knee is maintained throughout the backswing.This brace will naturally restrict your hip turn,but will allow you to complete your shoulder turn and give a feeling of a more compact backswing.

How many people turn their hips too much?


#6 russc

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:14 PM

View Postcbrian, on 28 May 2011 - 10:09 AM, said:

View Postrussc, on 28 May 2011 - 09:09 AM, said:

View Postbeyerskid, on 28 May 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I feel like my ball striking is best when I am "compact." Feels like a "shorter" backswing. Then I hear "you need more shoulder turn"... Is it possible to stay "compact" yet still get good shoulder turn? I feel like the more I turn the easier it is to get off track with the arms/hands.

I just can't see it right mentally. How do I get a compact backswing with proper shoulder turn? Any ideas on how to reconcile these two swing thoughts?

Stop your arm swing as soon as the shoulder turn stops.The idea is have your arms and body connected going back. For most people who" runoff" with their arms at the last stage of the backswing,the connected  backswing will feel shorter and thus more compact.You might also need to feel that the brace of the right  knee is maintained throughout the backswing.This brace will naturally restrict your hip turn,but will allow you to complete your shoulder turn and give a feeling of a more compact backswing.

How many people turn their hips too much?

Of the golfers swings that I have seen on Golfwrx  in the last month about 1/10 over rotate their hips.If your left knee is moving towards the ball on your backswing ,you have probably overrated your hips.The brace of the right knee also will help prevent a move where  the right leg straightens  and a player makes a move high on the hip thinking that they are making a full turn when they have really  just destroyed their coil . .I am not referring to S+T   enthusiasts as they set up completely different.

#7 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:35 PM

View Postbeyerskid, on 28 May 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I feel like my ball striking is best when I am "compact." Feels like a "shorter" backswing. Then I hear "you need more shoulder turn"... Is it possible to stay "compact" yet still get good shoulder turn? I feel like the more I turn the easier it is to get off track with the arms/hands.

I just can't see it right mentally. How do I get a compact backswing with proper shoulder turn? Any ideas on how to reconcile these two swing thoughts?

They are one and the same.  All compact swing means is your arms swing doesn't over run your shoulder turn.

I would imagine your version of a compact swing is your back swing ends as soon as your shoulder turn does.  Most ams have extra arm swing and louse things up.
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#8 cbrian

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:07 PM

View Postrussc, on 28 May 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

View Postcbrian, on 28 May 2011 - 10:09 AM, said:

View Postrussc, on 28 May 2011 - 09:09 AM, said:

View Postbeyerskid, on 28 May 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I feel like my ball striking is best when I am "compact." Feels like a "shorter" backswing. Then I hear "you need more shoulder turn"... Is it possible to stay "compact" yet still get good shoulder turn? I feel like the more I turn the easier it is to get off track with the arms/hands.

I just can't see it right mentally. How do I get a compact backswing with proper shoulder turn? Any ideas on how to reconcile these two swing thoughts?

Stop your arm swing as soon as the shoulder turn stops.The idea is have your arms and body connected going back. For most people who" runoff" with their arms at the last stage of the backswing,the connected  backswing will feel shorter and thus more compact.You might also need to feel that the brace of the right  knee is maintained throughout the backswing.This brace will naturally restrict your hip turn,but will allow you to complete your shoulder turn and give a feeling of a more compact backswing.

How many people turn their hips too much?

Of the golfers swings that I have seen on Golfwrx  in the last month about 1/10 over rotate their hips.If your left knee is moving towards the ball on your backswing ,you have probably overrated your hips.The brace of the right knee also will help prevent a move where  the right leg straightens  and a player makes a move high on the hip thinking that they are making a full turn when they have really  just destroyed their coil . .I am not referring to S+T   enthusiasts as they set up completely different.
Hogan, Mac, Snead, Bubba, ZJ, DJ, etc etc etc. I don't know about that. And what do you mean by completely different.

#9 russc

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:47 PM

View Postcbrian, on 28 May 2011 - 01:07 PM, said:

View Postrussc, on 28 May 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

View Postcbrian, on 28 May 2011 - 10:09 AM, said:

View Postrussc, on 28 May 2011 - 09:09 AM, said:

View Postbeyerskid, on 28 May 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I feel like my ball striking is best when I am "compact." Feels like a "shorter" backswing. Then I hear "you need more shoulder turn"... Is it possible to stay "compact" yet still get good shoulder turn? I feel like the more I turn the easier it is to get off track with the arms/hands.

I just can't see it right mentally. How do I get a compact backswing with proper shoulder turn? Any ideas on how to reconcile these two swing thoughts?

Stop your arm swing as soon as the shoulder turn stops.The idea is have your arms and body connected going back. For most people who" runoff" with their arms at the last stage of the backswing,the connected  backswing will feel shorter and thus more compact.You might also need to feel that the brace of the right  knee is maintained throughout the backswing.This brace will naturally restrict your hip turn,but will allow you to complete your shoulder turn and give a feeling of a more compact backswing.

How many people turn their hips too much?

Of the golfers swings that I have seen on Golfwrx  in the last month about 1/10 over rotate their hips.If your left knee is moving towards the ball on your backswing ,you have probably overrated your hips.The brace of the right knee also will help prevent a move where  the right leg straightens  and a player makes a move high on the hip thinking that they are making a full turn when they have really  just destroyed their coil . .I am not referring to S+T   enthusiasts as they set up completely different.
Hogan, Mac, Snead, Bubba, ZJ, DJ, etc etc etc. I don't know about that. And what do you mean by completely different.

Do not get hung up about the hip turn.Over rotating the hips on the backswing does not occur among better players let alone terrific players like touring players.;however there are a number of golfers who submit their swings for analysis  on golfwrx ,who are not among this better player category.
I know very little about s+t,but it is obvious that  S+t players set up with a vertical spine which leads to  a leftward tilt and a straight right leg on the backswing as their head stays centered.It looks like a reverse pivot to me ,so I do not want to even think about S+t.Since there have been  a number of successful pros practicing the S+t,there must be something to it,but you better have a really good instructor  to learn it.

#10 PhilCVG

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:58 PM

I am struggling with this right now. I had about a 6 to 8 frame run on with my arms/club.this caused me to really get my clubs/arms really behind me and have to flip it at impact.  I'm trying to shorten up a bit to better match my turn. To do this I have to feel like my arms are stopping shoulder high, parallel o the ground. When I'm doing it correctly I'm hitting it much better, but what I have found now is the sensation has changed and I'm getting too long again.


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#11 cbrian

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 07:19 PM

View Postrussc, on 28 May 2011 - 04:47 PM, said:

Do not get hung up about the hip turn.Over rotating the hips on the backswing does not occur among better players let alone terrific players like touring players.;however there are a number of golfers who submit their swings for analysis  on golfwrx ,who are not among this better player category.
I know very little about s+t,but it is obvious that  S+t players set up with a vertical spine which leads to  a leftward tilt and a straight right leg on the backswing as their head stays centered.It looks like a reverse pivot to me ,so I do not want to even think about S+t.Since there have been  a number of successful pros practicing the S+t,there must be something to it,but you better have a really good instructor  to learn it.

I don't really want to get into another one of these, but I don't think thats fair at all. Look at the video I posted. Does Kenny look like his upper body is leaning towards the target? Looks pretty centered to me. Do you really see his weight moving forwards and then back? Left then left at worst IMO. And lastly, the right leg loses flex, but it doesn't necessarily get to "straight."  Which is certainly not exclusive to the system.



#12 beyerskid

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:49 PM

View PostPhilCVG, on 28 May 2011 - 04:58 PM, said:

I am struggling with this right now. I had about a 6 to 8 frame run on with my arms/club.this caused me to really get my clubs/arms really behind me and have to flip it at impact.  I'm trying to shorten up a bit to better match my turn. To do this I have to feel like my arms are stopping shoulder high, parallel o the ground. When I'm doing it correctly I'm hitting it much better, but what I have found now is the sensation has changed and I'm getting too long again.

Yes. The club getting stuck and having to flip it at impact. That sucks. Been there.

The hard thing for me to see mentally and more importantly, to FEEL is, how to you stay "centered", "head relatively still", "right knee still", "not use your arms (stay connected)" and still TURN ... And I am a good athlete. How much turn is enough turn - WHERE DOES THE CLUB END UP?

THEN, what do you do with the club once you complete the backswing? Put another way, what is your thought for your first move of the downswing?

Edited by beyerskid, 28 May 2011 - 10:51 PM.





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