ndlawyer, on Jul 16 2005, 10:05 PM, said:
3jackanono, on Jun 28 2005, 10:29 PM, said:
It cost me about $40 beans to insure my clubs with State Farm. Doesn't matter how they get stolen...airlines, theft whatever. Worth that price and then some. If your bag is worth that much, don't rely on whether you can or can't get a club to give you a discount on retail or cut you a check or give you free golf. I've got over $5k now in golf crap I take to the course...got to protect yourself and insuring them is the best way IMO.
talk to Hasse11 on BSG (he is or will be shortly a member here too) he's the one I got my sticks insured with. Great guy.
Brian
My legal question is: if I catch someone trying to steal my clubs and I kill them (on accident of course: "officer, he was already lying in the road bleeding when I ran over him) could I be convicted of murder?

Brian:
Whether you are convicted of murder depends on multiple variables:
1. what jurisdiciton? All 50 states and federal law is somewhat different on what constitutes first degree murder (usually premeditated and intentional), second degree murder (usually intentional or reckless but not premeditated), voluntary or involuntary manslaughter.
2. what venue: specifically what county within a state. Individual prosecutors may vary in what they will and will not prosecute.
3. the specific facts of your case.
4. the jury.
Hopefully you will never have to find out. I would strongly recommend going through the proper authorities rather than take matters into your own hands, it will cause a lot less problems in the long run. Despite what you hear about federal prisons, there are very few correctional facilities that allow inmates to play golf.
I’ve got to chime in here…
Ndlawyer’s analysis is not incorrect, but it omits some key points that must be established to answer the question.
First, to restate your question: Can you use a justification defense to murder after offing the guy you just busted steeling your sticks?
Regardless of the jurisdiction, the law in all fifty States is that you may never use deadly force to protect property. Thus, the short answer is that you can be convicted of some form of homicide crime. (Although prosecutorial discretion would determine whether or not you got charged)
The homicide crimes recognized in American Jurisprudence are: First degree murder; Murder; Voluntary manslaughter; and Involuntary manslaughter
1. First Degree Murder varies in definition from state to state, but under Federal Law it is defined as the premeditated killing of another with malice aforethought.
2. Murder is any homicide that is not 1st degree murder, or manslaughter. There are four modes of murder (which are distinguishable by the intent of the killer): intent to kill; intent to cause great bodily harm; depraved heart murder; and felony murder.
3. Voluntary manslaughter is a killing committed under extreme provocation.
4. Involuntary manslaughter is essentially an accidental killing committed with criminal negligence.
Thus, let’s analyze these four options to see which one fits best:
If you killed the guy “by accident” as you proposed, than the only homicide crime you may be convicted of is involuntary manslaughter. And only if the accident is one where your actions amount to criminal negligence, I.e. you deviated from the standard duty of care so much that your actions were at least likely, to some degree, to cause the result. If it was truly an “innocent accident” you cannot be convicted of any homicide crime.
However, if the accident is one where you claim, “I only meant to beat the guy to within an inch of his life, but I underestimated his height”, I.e. you wanted to hurt him but not kill him, you can be convicted of murder by way of intent to cause great bodily harm.
The problem for you is that we all know what we’d like to do to that lousy no good piece of @#&$ who stole our clubs…and so does the DA (he probably golfs). So he’s not likely to accept your story that it was an innocent accident. Thus, as far as accidents go, you're not likely to get off so easily.
But there is still another way of looking at this. Perhaps you were provoked?
To be convicted of voluntary manslaughter (as opposed to a more serious crime) you must show that you were provoked and did not have time to cool off from the provocation before squashing the guy. Also, you must show that a reasonable person in your situation would have been provoked, and that the same reasonable person in your situation would not have had time to cool off.
This is a tough one. It all hinges on whether a reasonable person would have been adequately provoked by having his golf equipment ganked.
The fact of the matter is that golfers aren’t reasonable. We spend lavishly on our gear while having to live out of the back of a pick-up truck because we spent the rent money on the latest Titleist irons. (Got mine on order already). Unfortunately for you, the reasonable person standard is one of an ordinary person, not an ordinary golfer. And anyway, its no stretch to foresee some hippie on the jury bleed from the heart for the poor victim who took your clubs so you wouldn’t be able to golf on land that was once the exclusive domain of the rare three toed thorny woodpecker before it was deforested to build that open links course.
If the jury isn’t convinced that a "reasonable person" would have been adequately provoked, you’re moving onward and upward towards that life sentence.
If a jury fails to believe your theory of provocation – watch out. You may have just gotten yourself a battlefield promotion from voluntary manslaughter to 1st degree murder.
Absent extreme provocation, if you intended to kill, made a plan, and went through with it, you just committed 1st degree murder.
Under no circumstances, however, may you claim that you had to kill the guy to save your stuff. Think about it…someone’s life / your stuff. Okay, okay, I would probably want to kill anyone who would take any of my highly prized golf gear. But under the law, that is no defense.
Moral of the story is obvious: If you catch a guy boosting your goods, make sure to bury the body sufficiently well so that you'll never have to answer for it.
Regards,