39 replies to this topic

[ErikTaylor]

I need help with an issue in my backswing. I have been trying to eliminate the rolling of my wrists in the back swing. Because of this the club gets a little on the inside on the back swing. Standing DTL the clubhead does not get behind my body, with the exception of my driver and 3 wood. I have tried numerous things to eliminate this problem. It doesn't affect my swing all that much, however I want to make it simplier I guess for lack of better words. Here is what I have tried.

1) Done take away drills assuring the shaft is down my foot line. It feels very natural when I'm not over the ball.

2) Focused on really turning with my core/shoulders and feeling as though my hands are not doing anything.

3) Dropped a ball 8 inches behind the ball I'm about to strike and push the secondary ball straight back.

4) Attempt to feel as though instead of my hands rolling inward the lift upward. However these makes me get disconnected.

5) Practived over a tour stick and took the club back as far as I could along the TS, until I have to bend my right elbow to allow me to complete the back swing.

6) Get the sensation of the grip of the club staying close to my right hip on the back swing vs coming out.

7) Feel as though the butt of the grip keeps pointing at my belly button as long as I can physically.

So what drills are there that could help?

[isaacbm]

The left wrist's only purpose in the golf swing is to hinge vertically.  When you swing back,  point your thumb to the sky.  Do this again and again in slow motion.  The arms swing across the body but  the left wrist is the key here.  A good drill is to simply stand at address and  with the left arm only on the club,  lift it straight up and then pound it straight down into the turf.  Literally hammer the club into the ground.  That's the motion that the left hand should be doing in the swing.  The hands don't roll,  the wrists simply lift straight up.  It's as simple as that.  You have to train your body to do it but the best way is hundreds of reps in slow mo.  Hope this helps!!

[ErikTaylor]

Thanks Isaac. To assure I'm doing this correctly how early in the swing should i feel this? I should feel the thumb vertical?

[mikpga]

"Make the club feel light"...

Feel as though the clubhead is directly above your hands...

If the clubhead gets "too laid off", clubhead will feel "heavier"...

This move does require a "deeper" turn into your "trail side"...

[scifisicko]

Another way to do this is to think about the take away being nothing other than a lift of the right elbow up the plane until club is parallel to ground. No movement of the body and no movement of the hands or left arm at all. Try it without a ball first. It should have the effect of pulling the left bicep hard against left pec, keeping the club face perpendicular to the plane, hands will be over the instep and club in line. Start making your turn from there. Hope this helps.

P.S Jeff Ritter has a good thought for this on one of his YouTube videos, he likens the backswing to answering a phone on a low desk with your right hand from the standing position. He divides it into two parts, lifting the elbow straight up, then lifting your wrist relative to your elbow to put the receiver to your ear. The takeaway is obviously the first part.

Edited by scifisicko, 20 April 2011 - 09:35 PM.

[isaacbm]

ErikTaylor, on 20 April 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

Thanks Isaac. To assure I'm doing this correctly how early in the swing should i feel this? I should feel the thumb vertical?

I think you should feel it right from the beginning. There's absolutely no lateral hinge of the left wrist.  Here's another way of doing it: Just stand in front of the ball with only your left hand on the club.  With no shoulder turn,  simply pick up the club and point it behind your right shoulder.  That's the motion of the left arm and wrist in the swing.  The only thing to add now is the shoulder turn.  Then try the same thing with both hands on the club.

There is so much misunderstanding of what the club is supposed to do in the back swing.  If we could completely take away the lateral mobility of the left wrist,  we would have a better model for the golf swing.  The wrist only hinges vertically.  the shoulder turn is what gets the club behind you,  not a turning of the wrists and hands.

[HOFLegend47]

Put a pen, marker, pencil, whatever under your glove on the backside of the wrist.  Make smooth swings.  Or get the Rick Smith glove.  This will cure your problem.

[russc]

Place a small thin bottle 18 inches  directly behind the ball.Knock it over on your takeaway.Note that because you are swinging back in an arc,you will hit the bottle more towards the toe of the club.

[sdigit]

I had this very problem and after studying my swing on video and I came up with some moves that really helped me. Now I start to move the club head in a one piece take away action with the feel of the club face staying pointed at the target line as it extends away from the target. When the club head reaches somewhere near hip level, I begin to fold the right elbow, maintain a flat left wrist, and at the top of the backswing I feel the right palm reach the sky and have that "holding a tray of drinks above your head" feel with the right hand. I couldn't really get this  new simpler move until I started to fold fold the right elbow. When I was "wrist rolling" I was opening the club face  immediately and creating an additional swing plane that I had to compensate for on the downswing. Check yourself in the mirror, practice the elbow fold move versus the wrist roll move. The swing plane evidence between the two take aways tells all. I hope this helps.   ---sdigit

[Crunchie1982]

I too have had this problem - rolling wrists, and getting flat and inside.

I can only reiterate the drills already given - particular important is a one-piece takeaway. Keep the butt of the club pointin at your belly button until the hands get hip high, and then simply FOLD THE RIGHT ELBOW, dont even think about any active wrist action. It will feel like you're not doing anything with the wrists, but i guarantee you that they will c*ck of there own accord (regardless of how it FEELS - it will feel kind of short, tight, and strange!)

Watch some videos of Ben Hogan's swing, and note how soon he begins folding his arm in his backswing. His 'plane' is flat, but he is on-plane. He has said that he never consciously cocked his wrists - this should be a RE-ACTION, rather than a conscious action.

[ErikTaylor]

Thanks so much for the input guys. I have been given some new feels and drills to work on. Much appreciated. How long does this process take?

[johnm65]

Thanks for this thread. I had my son video my swing last weekend and I saw this bad habit had crept back into my swing. Some good ideas here.

[SlydeRulZ]

This is a problem I started working recently with my local pro as well.

One thing I didn't get a chance to ask him was the affect of the right hand grip in relation to allowing the right elbow to fold while maintaing a flat left wrist and balancing the weight of the club properly with the right hand. Seems like the right hand would need to be a bit 'weak' (turned to the right or clockwise) to allow this to happen without manipulation of the wrists.

Any thoughts on proper right hand position/grip to impede the rolling ot the wrists in the backswing?

Edited by SlydeRulZ, 21 April 2011 - 01:22 PM.

[HitEmTrue]

isaacbm, on 20 April 2011 - 09:45 PM, said:

ErikTaylor, on 20 April 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

Thanks Isaac. To assure I'm doing this correctly how early in the swing should i feel this? I should feel the thumb vertical?

I think you should feel it right from the beginning. There's absolutely no lateral hinge of the left wrist.

When I was struggling with a bowed left wrist at the top of my swing (along with a SHUT clubface), the solution from my teacher was to ADD clockwise forearm rotation during the back swing (but not immediately in the takeaway).  I think the reason this worked for me is because, by not adding right arm rotation in the same direction, it prevented the left wrist from hinging laterally.

[Johwak121]

OP I struggle with this as well and when I just took a slow motion take away with my thumbs pointing in the air it looks and feels right!

Goin to the range later to try it out

Thanks!!

[gjack]

I just read through the posts quick so im sorry if i repeat anything.  I agree on forearm rotation but it has to be done late in the takeaway.... i try to feel it at about 8:30 in the backswing.  I found a great drill in one of Dan Whittakers videos that made it click for me. He uses the towel drill to make you drag it back and set the club properly.  You tie a bath towel to the club head (around the hosel) and place the towel ahead of the club down the target line. The feeling you want is to take drag the towel away with hands leading the club in one smooth motion as you roll your forearm and feel the club set.  I try as hard as i can to do it and feel my core and shoulders moving the towel.  Helps me to quiet the hands in the backswing, set the club and smooth out tempo.

[ErikTaylor]

Jowak lemme know how it goes.  

keep the suggestions coming guys.

[ErikTaylor]

Gjack ill have to try that. Thanks for the post.

On the road ill reply more thorough later. Heading up to Mississippi...10 hour drive. Yuck

[russc]

gjack, on 21 April 2011 - 02:27 PM, said:

I just read through the posts quick so im sorry if i repeat anything.  I agree on forearm rotation but it has to be done late in the takeaway.... i try to feel it at about 8:30 in the backswing.  I found a great drill in one of Dan Whittakers videos that made it click for me. He uses the towel drill to make you drag it back and set the club properly.  You tie a bath towel to the club head (around the hosel) and place the towel ahead of the club down the target line. The feeling you want is to take drag the towel away with hands leading the club in one smooth motion as you roll your forearm and feel the club set.  I try as hard as i can to do it and feel my core and shoulders moving the towel.  Helps me to quiet the hands in the backswing, set the club and smooth out tempo.

+1

[gjack]

russc, on 21 April 2011 - 02:39 PM, said:

gjack, on 21 April 2011 - 02:27 PM, said:

I just read through the posts quick so im sorry if i repeat anything.  I agree on forearm rotation but it has to be done late in the takeaway.... i try to feel it at about 8:30 in the backswing.  I found a great drill in one of Dan Whittakers videos that made it click for me. He uses the towel drill to make you drag it back and set the club properly.  You tie a bath towel to the club head (around the hosel) and place the towel ahead of the club down the target line. The feeling you want is to take drag the towel away with hands leading the club in one smooth motion as you roll your forearm and feel the club set.  I try as hard as i can to do it and feel my core and shoulders moving the towel.  Helps me to quiet the hands in the backswing, set the club and smooth out tempo.

+1

here is the link:  http://youtube/13byY9Lbr5g  YouTube "the gotham golf fix episode 7".  Watch the whole lesson. Its 25 minutes but it is packed with really good stuff.  Pay attention to the "coil drill" and check out the "9-3" swings at the end.  This is a great video.  I still watch it over and over.

[ErikTaylor]

Thanks for the link. I'll look at it when I'm near a computer.

[ErikTaylor]

Is the pre wrist **** drill good for this issue?

[ErikTaylor]

^^ c*ck ^^

[gjack]

ErikTaylor, on 23 April 2011 - 11:11 PM, said:

^^ c*ck ^^

Im not really sure what you mean by pre-wrist **** drill but I personally think any manipulation of the hands is a step backwards.  when you set-up to the ball there will be a cup in your left wrist... try to use your shoulders and core to just turn back.   Geoff (slicefixer) calls this "keeping the crinkles". The crinkles in your left wrist when looking down should be maintained.  As you turn back you need to start rotating the arm  and bending your elbow at the same pace your shoulder turns back.  In my mind I feel everything working off the right shoulder going back.  I see my shoulder as the main "gear" that turns back, in turn, moving the gear that bends my right arm and the gear that roatates my left forearm.  I dont mean it in a mechanical way... just the idea that the shoulder, elbow bend and arm rotation all happen simulatenously and smooth.  I try to keep a constant light pressure of the grip on the inside of my right index finger.... i find, if you can keep a constant light pressure , you connect to your pivot better and everything moves away and back together in synch.  Once my shoulder goes back, arm bends and forearm roatates I feel a slight increase on my index finger and that is the club setting...which is my trigger to transition.  From there i try to get to the left pivot point with a patient change of direction while keeping the lag pressure on my index finger.   The more I work on this move the more I really understand how important grip and setup are.  Still a work in progresss for me but I figure I can try and give you some insight as to what i have found works. Im seeing Geoff in a few weeks so hopefully I will refine the process even more. Good Luck

Edited by gjack, 24 April 2011 - 08:47 AM.

[lebanontngolfer]

ErikTaylor, here is a very simple thing my instructor told me to do and it really helped fix my early roll...

When you make your backswing, try to keep the face of the club pointed at the ball as long as possible.  It will keep you from rolling too early, and will also help you get into a good position at the top.  You will naturally start to roll the arms about half way back, but it really helps to ingrain the "feel" of not rolling too early.  It helped keep me from taking too long of a backswing, too.

Good luck!

[jebb]

I'd second the video dfw1500 (Dan) did on Gotham Golf Blog with the towel.

A  few other thoughts as I had the same problem. My instructor said as above to keep the clubface looking at the ball (felt shut) to stop the wrists rolling.

[HitEmTrue]

gjack, on 24 April 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:

ErikTaylor, on 23 April 2011 - 11:11 PM, said:

^^ c*ck ^^

Im not really sure what you mean by pre-wrist **** drill but I personally think any manipulation of the hands is a step backwards.  when you set-up to the ball there will be a cup in your left wrist... try to use your shoulders and core to just turn back.   Geoff (slicefixer) calls this "keeping the crinkles".

For what it's worth, Geoff has advocated the use of pre-c**k drill on here, along with it's cousin (or bigger brother?), the Faldo drill.

[russc]

HitEmTrue, on 25 April 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

gjack, on 24 April 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:

ErikTaylor, on 23 April 2011 - 11:11 PM, said:

^^ c*ck ^^

Im not really sure what you mean by pre-wrist **** drill but I personally think any manipulation of the hands is a step backwards.  when you set-up to the ball there will be a cup in your left wrist... try to use your shoulders and core to just turn back.   Geoff (slicefixer) calls this "keeping the crinkles".

For what it's worth, Geoff has advocated the use of pre-c**k drill on here, along with it's cousin (or bigger brother?), the Faldo drill.

The pre-set drill or the Faldo pre- set is an excellent drill  for a golfer to  feel  the proper   pivot  on the downswing.Because you start with the wrists fully set ,problems with the initial takeaway are eliminated  and you can focus on the rest of the swing.So in that context ,it is not a good drill to learn the proper takeaway.
Another drill to eliminate early rolling of the wrists is to set up with the toe of the club touching a wall or long box and make the takeaway with the club touching the box for about 18 inches

[russc]

HitEmTrue, on 25 April 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

gjack, on 24 April 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:

ErikTaylor, on 23 April 2011 - 11:11 PM, said:

^^ c*ck ^^

Im not really sure what you mean by pre-wrist **** drill but I personally think any manipulation of the hands is a step backwards.  when you set-up to the ball there will be a cup in your left wrist... try to use your shoulders and core to just turn back.   Geoff (slicefixer) calls this "keeping the crinkles".

For what it's worth, Geoff has advocated the use of pre-c**k drill on here, along with it's cousin (or bigger brother?), the Faldo drill.

The pre-set drill or the Faldo pre- set is an excellent drill  for a golfer to  feel  the proper   pivot  on the downswing.Because you start with the wrists fully set ,problems with the initial takeaway are eliminated  and you can focus on the rest of the swing.So in that context ,it is not a good drill to learn the proper takeaway.
Another drill to eliminate early rolling of the wrists is to set up with the toe of the club touching a wall or long box and make the takeaway with the club touching the box for about 18 inches

[HitEmTrue]

russc, on 25 April 2011 - 11:14 AM, said:

The pre-set drill or the Faldo pre- set is an excellent drill  for a golfer to  feel  the proper   pivot  on the downswing.Because you start with the wrists fully set ,problems with the initial takeaway are eliminated  and you can focus on the rest of the swing.So in that context ,it is not a good drill to learn the proper takeaway.

You are correct, I forgot the context of this thread before making my comment.  But I threw in my 2 cents because Geoff does not consider those drills to be a "manipulation of the hands", but quite the opposite.