59 replies to this topic

[Ol_Pardner]

Attention POWERBILT GURUS:  While scrounging through a thrift store bin, I came across a set of Powerbilt Citation Stainless "De-lux" irons, 1-10. I collect mostly Hogans, but the price was right $1/stick, and they are in average condition for their age. They have the older 1-1/4" ferrules. On the hosel, they have a double /// knurling pattern separated by what appears to be 4-point stars.  From what is left of the shaft labels, it appears that they are Power Bilt "Duo Power" shafts, feel like stiff flex.
The clubs seem to have 1/2" extra length: 6-i, 37-1/2"; 10-i (PW) 36" (remember, old standards: 6-i, 37", PW 35-1/2"). I have attached a not too good photo, but it's all I have right now.
Can any of you guys help me with their approx. age and how much they might be worth?
Thanks, writing 1st alimony check* next month, might have a liquidation sale!
Ol Pard
(*She said it was her or the golf clubs; I said: "See ya! It's been real, sometimes it's even been nice, but it hasn't been 'real-nice' since we got married!")

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[astamm8]

 Ol_Pardner, on 24 February 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Attention POWERBILT GURUS:  While scrounging through a thrift store bin, I came across a set of Powerbilt Citation Stainless "De-lux" irons, 1-10. I collect mostly Hogans, but the price was right $1/stick, and they are in average condition for their age. They have the older 1-1/4" ferrules. On the hosel, they have a double /// knurling pattern separated by what appears to be 4-point stars.  From what is left of the shaft labels, it appears that they are Power Bilt "Duo Power" shafts, feel like stiff flex.
The clubs seem to have 1/2" extra length: 6-i, 37-1/2"; 10-i (PW) 36" (remember, old standards: 6-i, 37", PW 35-1/2"). I have attached a not too good photo, but it's all I have right now.
Can any of you guys help me with their approx. age and how much they might be worth?
Thanks, writing 1st alimony check* next month, might have a liquidation sale!
Ol Pard
(*She said it was her or the golf clubs; I said: "See ya! It's been real, sometimes it's even been nice, but it hasn't been 'real-nice' since we got married!")

Great find! Would you mind posting a face pic? What kind of grips do they have?

[okesa]

Rex,I wonder if those were produced for the North American market only,they do have a similarity to a Nicklaus blade that was sold in the UK under the Slazenger banner also.

Revise that,I was thinking of JN67's which have the toe of the muscle clipped but have a much higher pad.

Edited by okesa, 24 February 2012 - 03:56 PM.

[Ol_Pardner]

 astamm8, on 24 February 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

 Ol_Pardner, on 24 February 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Attention POWERBILT GURUS:  While scrounging through a thrift store bin, I came across a set of Powerbilt Citation Stainless "De-lux" irons, 1-10. I collect mostly Hogans, but the price was right $1/stick, and they are in average condition for their age. They have the older 1-1/4" ferrules. On the hosel, they have a double /// knurling pattern separated by what appears to be 4-point stars.  From what is left of the shaft labels, it appears that they are Power Bilt "Duo Power" shafts, feel like stiff flex.
The clubs seem to have 1/2" extra length: 6-i, 37-1/2"; 10-i (PW) 36" (remember, old standards: 6-i, 37", PW 35-1/2"). I have attached a not too good photo, but it's all I have right now.
Can any of you guys help me with their approx. age and how much they might be worth?
Thanks, writing 1st alimony check* next month, might have a liquidation sale!
Ol Pard
(*She said it was her or the golf clubs; I said: "See ya! It's been real, sometimes it's even been nice, but it hasn't been 'real-nice' since we got married!")

to

Great find! Would you mind posting a face pic? What kind of grips do they have?

Thanks. The grips are all replacements--and in need of replacement--mostly well-used GP Victorys and Velvet Cord Victories.  I will try to post some better pics over the weekend. They are a great old set of sticks, I haven't hit them in over a year. I recall that they didn't have the "buttery" feel that everyone speaks of in carbon steel-forged irons, but they certainly felt a lot better than the "cast" stainless steel irons from the 1970s. I also have a set of Spalding Robert T. Jones, JR, stainless 'Synchro-Dyned' irons that I had planned to take out on the course one day, but ran out of 'round-to-its.' They have older TT Dynamic-R replacement shafts. (Remember the golf industry-standard for years: "black band dynamics" with the TT label about 1/8"  to 3/16" wide?). These shafts feel a littler 'firmmer' than most Rs or mediums (nearer R400+), at least out on the range, while the heads are closer to the carbon steel in terms of feel, than the PBs (above).

[okesa]

Rex,I was mistaken about the Bob Charles model I had,it was a mirror image of the Peter Thomson iron set NOT the De Vicenzo as I thought,I can't find an image but here is the Thomson blade which you'll have to imagine as left handed!

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[nolixul]

Not what you're after, but this 2-SW Bob Charles set popped up on Ebay UK:



http://www.ebay.co.u...1#ht_500wt_1203

Lovely blue, white and black banded ferrules.

Also this single iron in a different Bob Charles model, again 985 style as in a previous post but with slightly different markings:

http://www.ebay.co.u...3#ht_500wt_1203

I wonder how many different Bob Charles models Dunlop in fact made?

[okesa]

I reckon the set that I had about 1980-ish as described above (mirror image of P Thomson) may have been the last set as a Bob Charles signature model,there seem to have been a number of blades that bore a resemblance to other Dunlop clubs and may have differed only in finish and shafts,the ones immediately above look like the 'Blue Flash' model which was an entry level club but for the signature and the shaft which was more closely stepped at its mid section.I'm guessing but there were probably half a dozen variants based on Charles winning the Open in 1963 and manufacturers at that time not as eager to render their stock obsolete as quickly as today so a typical model might be current for a couple of years.
All a bit sad really,Dunlop did produce the Australian Blades but otherwise I think almost everyone wanted to move on to American made iron sets,Wilson,Hogan,Macgregor and Ram.

[rex235]

Thanks to all who have been looking for the Dunlop LH Bob Charles Stainless Steel irons... Thanks.

[nolixul]

 okesa, on 08 March 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

I reckon the set that I had about 1980-ish as described above (mirror image of P Thomson) may have been the last set as a Bob Charles signature model,there seem to have been a number of blades that bore a resemblance to other Dunlop clubs and may have differed only in finish and shafts,the ones immediately above look like the 'Blue Flash' model which was an entry level club but for the signature and the shaft which was more closely stepped at its mid section.I'm guessing but there were probably half a dozen variants based on Charles winning the Open in 1963 and manufacturers at that time not as eager to render their stock obsolete as quickly as today so a typical model might be current for a couple of years.
All a bit sad really,Dunlop did produce the Australian Blades but otherwise I think almost everyone wanted to move on to American made iron sets,Wilson,Hogan,Macgregor and Ram.

You may be right about the 2-SW being entry level clubs - the shaft stepping does seem compact. However I don't think it's reminiscent of the Blue Flash. All the Blue Flash models I have seen have a double muscle (a la 985) but with the upper muscle sharply turning and ending at the top of the toe instead of mid toe like this:




The blade on the 2-SW looks more like some kind of percussion back, and I can't quite see whats going on with the soles, but it almost looks like a step sole or most likely that the muscle stops just short of the sole.

There are some things that make me wonder if this wasn't an entry level club. Firstly, would an entry level club have started at a 2 iron in those days? I don't know. Secondly, Dunlop and indeed most of the other UK manufacturers at that time (40s - 60s) tended to do things somewhat in reverse to the practices of US manufacturers as far as player signatures/endorsement of models. In the US, generally the retail models carried players names whereas in the UK generally the premium models carried players names. Of course things definitely gradually changed this side of the Atlantic through the 70s-90s, and there are several exceptions to this generalisation I have made about the UK anyway!

I often wish that UK manufacturers old iron models  - Dunlop/Slazenger/Maxfli, Letters, Sayers, Nicoll ,,, - had as much information captured about them as MacGregor, Wilson, Spalding, Hogan etc!! Kaplan type catalogs or other historical records would be so useful!!

[okesa]

No,you misunderstand what I've said which is that there are Blue Flash models similar to the BC's BUT the shaft stepping was different in the Charles signature models,there was a name for that shaft which I can't recall,I had the three wood which was a laminate but flighted the ball great.I meant that the Blue Flash were the entry level club and I think were sold through sports shops and catalogues whereas the signature models were for pro shops and specialist golf retailers.
I too feel nostalgic about the old UK manufacturers but the fact is that the best American clubs were far,far better than the best British clubs,not surprising when you consider that they were designed by players used to playing the 1.68" ball and whose swings were adjusted to flight and control that size (vis Hogan and pronation) as opposed to the 'flicky' swing that was prevalent in the UK for propelling the 1.62" ball.

[Shallowface]

 nolixul, on 09 March 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

There are some things that make me wonder if this wasn't an entry level club. Firstly, would an entry level club have started at a 2 iron in those days?

There were plenty of entry level sets that had 2 Irons prior to the mid 1970s.  A fairly common sight in thrift stores is the Wilson Patty Berg Cup Defender 2 Iron for women.

Almost could be classified as cruel and unusual punishment!

Edited by Shallowface, 09 March 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[okesa]

Don't forget that those older clubs were shorter and had weaker lofts,I've just looked at a Spalding Ded Ac rustless 2-iron which is stamped L indicating that it was either a lady's club or that I was a lunatic for buying them!
In length it is slightly shorter than a modern man's 5-iron and has about the same loft.

[Shallowface]

 okesa, on 09 March 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Don't forget that those older clubs were shorter and had weaker lofts,I've just looked at a Spalding Ded Ac rustless 2-iron which is stamped L indicating that it was either a lady's club or that I was a lunatic for buying them!
In length it is slightly shorter than a modern man's 5-iron and has about the same loft.

Yep, and those modern specs are why most demo carts these days are full of seven irons instead of fives and why the modern 5 iron is often a candidate to be replaced by a hybrid.

Just because they stamp a 5 on what used to be a 2 or 3 iron doesn't make it any more playable. If a little kid asked me why iron sets start with 4 instead of 1 I wouldn't know how to explain it to him, because it doesn't make sense to me either.

[nolixul]

 okesa, on 09 March 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

No,you misunderstand what I've said which is that there are Blue Flash models similar to the BC's BUT the shaft stepping was different in the Charles signature models,there was a name for that shaft which I can't recall,I had the three wood which was a laminate but flighted the ball great.I meant that the Blue Flash were the entry level club and I think were sold through sports shops and catalogues whereas the signature models were for pro shops and specialist golf retailers.
I too feel nostalgic about the old UK manufacturers but the fact is that the best American clubs were far,far better than the best British clubs,not surprising when you consider that they were designed by players used to playing the 1.68" ball and whose swings were adjusted to flight and control that size (vis Hogan and pronation) as opposed to the 'flicky' swing that was prevalent in the UK for propelling the 1.62" ball.

Well, I wouldn't argue the point. The generalisation is true I'm sure. However there are certainly some standout models from UK manufacturers from the 40s-50s (and before that time, but I have less knowledge about that era - eg Gibsons hickories) that are competitive - eg the early incarnations of Letters Master Model, and some Gradidge irons (Bobby Locke).

As you go forward in time through the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s, then not a lot stands out. One can point to companies with UK roots like Dunlop (and the Maxfli sub-brand) and Slazenger, for Australian Blades (inc DP30s), , Maxfli Pro Specials, Seve Blades, DP40s, Revolution Blacks (not forged) etc. Difficult to think of the "modern" highlights except for those. Sad really.

[okesa]

I agree totally,perhaps another example of the corporate complacency of the period which saw British dominance of design and manufacture in many fields disappear to overseas producers,I have great affection for the old George Nicoll o'Leven brand and its Henry Cotton irons and as you mention,the Bobby Locke Gradidge clubs,I have and play occasionally with a set of Letters Master Model irons but you're absolutely right about the lack of highpoints other than the exceptions that you mention.
I'm guessing but I think that British companies like Dunlop and Slazenger thought it enough to have a signature on a club to sell it such as the Jacklin,de Vicenzo,Thomson and Charles models,whereas the best American clubs had been designed by great players like Hogan,Armour and Penna.
I can only apologise for making generalisations as I lack documentary evidence but have always been convinced that the R&A did not help golf on this side of the Atlantic in their procrastination over the validation of the 1.68" golf ball,both amateur and professional golf in the UK would have benefitted from an earlier acceptance.

[stixman]

Funny how things come around. On Tuesday I played at Grange over Sands with a set of mint 1958 George Nicoll Henry Cottons with the Pro Fit R shaft which felt a lot more solid than then green label Rockets an earlier set of mine had. Then today i was at Morecambe GC , another MacKenzie gem, and the guy I was playing with got to talking about some Dunlop Maxflis stored in his basement.'Not Australian Blades' says I. 'The same!' says he. So anyone looking for a set, I might be able to liberate them.
* when I say mint, I mean with embossed Pin Nicoll leather wraps and mint shaft labels, just so period and such good clubs!

[okesa]

That sounds great and what a terrific set to have,unlike a lot of the signature models produced I believe that the Maestro had input into their design,great clubs,great golfer only surpassed by Faldo as far as golf is concerned,pity that he couldn't have learned some style and grace from Sir Henry.
Sadly have only played one course in your area,Windermere,managed about 7 holes before the cloud descended and only found the clubhouse by virtue of Ray Mears-like skills!

[penleyeta]

 84425, on 05 April 2011 - 03:16 PM, said:

From memory, I think Johnny Miller played a set of TA 925's when he was at the height of his career.

tourney customs   915  Oakmonts 63 round-  I have a set!

[rex235]

 rex235, on 21 February 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

Okesa-

Yes, your John Letters  Irons are nice.

Always had a soft spot for those irons with the single milled cut on the back pad.  

All the RH MacGregor Tourney Custom 985 10 irons have the milled cut.

For some reason, MacGregor didn't make any LH 10 irons (P) like this for their  Tourney Custom 985 iron sets.  

Included are photos of  the Dunlop Bob Charles signature iron.
100_9966.JPG
Note the "Stainless Made in Scotland" on the sole.
100_9967.JPG

Somewhere, somebody has the entire set...2-10.... of Dunlop LH Bob Charles signature stainless irons.

Thanks to the recent video posting, we know the SS "signatures" were the iron set Sir Bob Charles used in winning the 1963 British Open Championship, defeating Phil Rodgers in the playoff.  
Heres hoping to see other LH stainless iron sets this 50th Anniversary year.

Edited by rex235, 08 January 2013 - 03:08 PM.

[oldsticks]

Here are some pictures of my late 1920's or  early 1930's stainless irons. MacGregor Cheiftain model. 1-9+jigger+#10 putter. There are 2 #5 iron's, a 5 Mashie & a 5+ spade mashie.
Every iron is marked with a number and a name...mashie, niblick. The set is all orig with Mac-Oid steel shaft. They are steel, rolled shafts with a seam on the back side.
A sticker on the shafts reads "Torsion" golf shafts, made in Bristol, Conn. Each head has the weight and length stamped.
The woods that came with the set are MacGregor Master 30 model, a driver-brassie-spoon. Persimmon heads with some kind of factory coating and a mother of
pearl band across the crown. The last pat. date on the woods is Sept. 5 1925.
Finally these beauties are in a leather L.A. Young Co bag.
I've played the irons, what a trip, but not the woods.

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Edited by oldsticks, 08 January 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

 oldsticks, on 08 January 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Here are some pictures of my late 1920's or  early 1930's stainless irons. MacGregor Cheiftain model. 1-9+jigger+#10 putter. There are 2 #5 iron's, a 5 Mashie & a 5+ spade mashie.
Every iron is marked with a number and a name...mashie, niblick. The set is all orig with Mac-Oid steel shaft. They are steel, rolled shafts with a seam on the back side.
A sticker on the shafts reads "Torsion" golf shafts, made in Bristol, Conn. Each head has the weight and length stamped.
The woods that came with the set are MacGregor Master 30 model, a driver-brassie-spoon. Persimmon heads with some kind of factory coating and a mother of
pearl band across the crown. The last pat. date on the woods is Sept. 5 1925.
Finally these beauties are in a leather L.A. Young Co bag.
I've played the irons, what a trip, but not the woods.

Great set of clubs.  gotta love those fancy faced woods with th ivory inlays

[guisician]

 oldsticks, on 08 January 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Here are some pictures of my late 1920's or  early 1930's stainless irons. MacGregor Cheiftain model. 1-9+jigger+#10 putter. There are 2 #5 iron's, a 5 Mashie & a 5+ spade mashie.
Every iron is marked with a number and a name...mashie, niblick. The set is all orig with Mac-Oid steel shaft. They are steel, rolled shafts with a seam on the back side.
A sticker on the shafts reads "Torsion" golf shafts, made in Bristol, Conn. Each head has the weight and length stamped.
The woods that came with the set are MacGregor Master 30 model, a driver-brassie-spoon. Persimmon heads with some kind of factory coating and a mother of
pearl band across the crown. The last pat. date on the woods is Sept. 5 1925.
Finally these beauties are in a leather L.A. Young Co bag.
I've played the irons, what a trip, but not the woods.

Thanks for the pics of these beauties; love the "radiating" grooves on the irons!

[ksballantyne54]

 teevons, on 19 February 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

And Golfcraft


Speaking of pedersen, I have collected stainless pedersen for last 20 years. They made single set custom autographed sets of woods and irons for major players in the game. 1930 - 1940. I have a 2-9 stainless set of Donald J. Ross, Pinehurst Golf Club, Emil Loeffler 1-2-3 wood stamped Oakmont CC, 2-9 Stainless Henry Picard, George R. Jacobus driver, stamped " miracle" and etc. These are extremely rare as I have collected every day for 20 years and have these limited sets of clubs. Also had a set ordered by Fred Dinger of Agamaw CC in RI but found his grandson and returned them to him.  Anybody have any knowledge of this and what have yor found.

 super20dan, on 18 February 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

dont forget the kennith smith royal signet .pederson made beautifull stainless irons. dont hear much about them

[ksballantyne54]

pedersen golf, forged stainless steel, alloy shafts, have searched on a daily basis for 20 years have collected a set 2-9 Pedersen special order Donald J. Ross engraved with Pinehurst Golf Club Shield stamped, from the 30's. Brown coated shaft leather grips and almost perfect condition. Came from Essex CC Donalds summer course. Also have a set of Fifty-one 2-9 with Henry Picard engraved no country club shield, Emil Loeffler engraved 1-2-3- wood with leather grips Model 12 stamped Oakmont Country Club, George Jacobus driver pedersen driver stamped "Miracle"  believe this was because of George s ability to get the 1935 ryder cup to Rigdewood CC. Also was president of PGA 10 years, These models are so rare I have studied Pedersen Company for years. looking for information to continue ed. Believe these clubs were custom made and engraved for major influences of the game hoping the pros at the clubs would play them and members would special order sets which were not engraved making the pros set one of a kind. Never have i found a duplication of any engravings.

[teevons]

 ksballantyne54, on 11 January 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

pedersen golf, forged stainless steel, alloy shafts, have searched on a daily basis for 20 years have collected a set 2-9 Pedersen special order Donald J. Ross engraved with Pinehurst Golf Club Shield stamped, from the 30's. Brown coated shaft leather grips and almost perfect condition. Came from Essex CC Donalds summer course. Also have a set of Fifty-one 2-9 with Henry Picard engraved no country club shield, Emil Loeffler engraved 1-2-3- wood with leather grips Model 12 stamped Oakmont Country Club, George Jacobus driver pedersen driver stamped "Miracle"  believe this was because of George s ability to get the 1935 ryder cup to Rigdewood CC. Also was president of PGA 10 years, These models are so rare I have studied Pedersen Company for years. looking for information to continue ed. Believe these clubs were custom made and engraved for major influences of the game hoping the pros at the clubs would play them and members would special order sets which were not engraved making the pros set one of a kind. Never have i found a duplication of any engravings.

Pictures??

[ksballantyne54]

 teevons, on 11 January 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

 ksballantyne54, on 11 January 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

pedersen golf, forged stainless steel, alloy shafts, have searched on a daily basis for 20 years have collected a set 2-9 Pedersen special order Donald J. Ross engraved with Pinehurst Golf Club Shield stamped, from the 30's. Brown coated shaft leather grips and almost perfect condition. Came from Essex CC Donalds summer course. Also have a set of Fifty-one 2-9 with Henry Picard engraved no country club shield, Emil Loeffler engraved 1-2-3- wood with leather grips Model 12 stamped Oakmont Country Club, George Jacobus driver pedersen driver stamped "Miracle"  believe this was because of George s ability to get the 1935 ryder cup to Rigdewood CC. Also was president of PGA 10 years, These models are so rare I have studied Pedersen Company for years. looking for information to continue ed. Believe these clubs were custom made and engraved for major influences of the game hoping the pros at the clubs would play them and members would special order sets which were not engraved making the pros set one of a kind. Never have i found a duplication of any engravings.

Pictures??

I do have pictures i can post next week

[Nspiel58]

My set of 1954 Synchro-Dyned Stainless Steel irons and how they can be renewed with a little brushing.  Love SS!

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[russad]

Those Spaldings look great, can you please provide more detail on the 'brushing' that got them looking so good?  I have some old Spalding Bobby Jones model irons that I'd love to have look like this.

[Nspiel58]

 russad, on 13 January 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

Those Spaldings look great, can you please provide more detail on the 'brushing' that got them looking so good?  I have some old Spalding Bobby Jones model irons that I'd love to have look like this.

I didn't do these myself. I showed them earlier on this forum and one of the responders said that they were likely done with a wire wheel attachment for a grinder, if my memory serves correct.  You couldn't get this finish with a 3M pad.

[russad]

 Nspiel58, on 13 January 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

 russad, on 13 January 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

Those Spaldings look great, can you please provide more detail on the 'brushing' that got them looking so good?  I have some old Spalding Bobby Jones model irons that I'd love to have look like this.

I didn't do these myself. I showed them earlier on this forum and one of the responders said that they were likely done with a wire wheel attachment for a grinder, if my memory serves correct.  You couldn't get this finish with a 3M pad.

Thanks, I'd be reluctant to use a power tool as worried about going too far, I've seen some that have been power buffed and it distorts the stamped writing.  Instead I'll have a careful go with some fine grade wet and dry paper as a first effort.