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Swing weight factors in relation to parts


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#421 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 04:38 AM

View Postgripandrip, on 14 January 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

I used to hit a 45 inch 910D2, very consistent and controllable, but too much spin. I was fit into a EPIC SZ at 45.5 inches. Fitter saw no real value to reducing the shaft length. While I am getting comfortable with the longer shaft, I have still not gotten back to my previous level of control or confidence.

Find a better fitter.  No am's should be playing a driver that long. Shortening the playing length is the best way to help with consistency and control issue.s


View Postgripandrip, on 14 January 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

If I read above correctly, I will need to add 6 grams to the head to have consistent swingweight.  Do these rules hold for a driver?

Those rules were never meant to be used in the context of adjusting SW after changing playing length.  Or more accurately, those rules are for adjusting SW but maintaining the same SW at different lengths (or in the context of many other changes) does NOT mean maintaining the same feel.

Just follow the tutorial here on adjusting length and swing weight and you should be fine.
http://www.golfwrx.c...up-diy-fitting/


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#422 flyingwedges2

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:09 PM

View Post78blades, on 06 October 2011 - 04:05 AM, said:

georgiaboy

I do agree that the upper end manufacturing is better, but the OEM's don't really seem to care very much when assembling the clubs. This is why I take my club apart and weigh the heads. I've had 4i head weigh more than 5i head, and that was a set of Mizuno's! After I corrected that, that set of clubs played very good. This is also why I won't buy new clubs from the OEM. I end up taking them apart and weighing & spining and that voids the warrenty. Less expensive to buy a relatively little used set for me, so thats what I do now.
  



What did you do to the 4 iron head to reduce the weight?

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#423 gripandrip

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:24 PM

View PostStuart G., on 15 January 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:

View Postgripandrip, on 14 January 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

I used to hit a 45 inch 910D2, very consistent and controllable, but too much spin. I was fit into a EPIC SZ at 45.5 inches. Fitter saw no real value to reducing the shaft length. While I am getting comfortable with the longer shaft, I have still not gotten back to my previous level of control or confidence.

Find a better fitter.  No am's should be playing a driver that long. Shortening the playing length is the best way to help with consistency and control issue.s


View Postgripandrip, on 14 January 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

If I read above correctly, I will need to add 6 grams to the head to have consistent swingweight.  Do these rules hold for a driver?

Those rules were never meant to be used in the context of adjusting SW after changing playing length.  Or more accurately, those rules are for adjusting SW but maintaining the same SW at different lengths (or in the context of many other changes) does NOT mean maintaining the same feel.

Just follow the tutorial here on adjusting length and swing weight and you should be fine.
http://www.golfwrx.c...up-diy-fitting/

Thank you.

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#424 Porker

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:37 AM

View Post78blades, on 29 July 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

IMO, swing wt is the cheapest way, (and I do mean CHEAP), of balancing the clubs out. I much perfer taking the heads off of the shafts, weighing the heads and either drilling out wt from the hosel or adding lead tip wt so all the heads are 6-8 grams apart from each other. This makes for a very nice feeling set of clubs with proper shafts lengths.

For those of you that think this is way too difficult, it isn't. If one has any mechanical skill at all this is a very easy process, you just need the tools and they aren't all that expensive.
Would you start with only one of your irons? Getting the swing weight right and then only fit the whole set? Which iron would you use?

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#425 beakster

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 10:22 AM

View Postacquadiice, on 22 September 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

what is the best brand lead tape for irons?

Order from Golfworks.


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#426 grillkungen

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 04:59 AM

-

Edited by grillkungen, 05 May 2018 - 09:10 AM.


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#427 rfarrell51

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 01:20 PM

How many layers of tape would it take to increase or decrease sw one point?
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#428 Stuart G.

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:22 PM

View Postrfarrell51, on 06 July 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

How many layers of tape would it take to increase or decrease sw one point?

"real swing weight" wouldn't be effected ;-)

But it generally takes about 3-4 layers for 1 sw pt difference on a scale depending on the type of tape used.

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#429 rfarrell51

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 06:25 PM

What if I wanted to decrease a 4.5 sw to around d2. Could I just go from a 52g grip to a midsize grip at around 62g ?
Thanks
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#430 Stuart G.

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:35 AM

View Postrfarrell51, on 06 July 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

What if I wanted to decrease a 4.5 sw to around d2. Could I just go from a 52g grip to a midsize grip at around 62g ?
Thanks

Most importantly, you do NOT want to mess with grip size just for the sake of trying to manipulate swing weight.   Find the grip size that is the best fit for your grip and swing and then stick with it regardless of anything else that might happen with the build.  

"real swing weight" is independent of grip weight.   The balance changes slightly but the actual MOI of the club doesn't really change.  Whether back weighting actually helps with a head weight that's too heavy or not is very subjective (and unpredictable).   For some, it may help for others it may not.   Never hurts to try but don't' get too hopeful.

Head weight is always the preferred way to manipulate SW. That's what the SW scale was designed to do - help the builder find the right head weight.   Sometimes shaft weight and balance point can be used - but only with the understanding that a good fit for club total weight is just as important as swing weight and changing shaft weight can mess with that total weight.  Sometimes it's ok to use length to manipulate SW, but other times it is not.   e.g. For the longer clubs, going a bit shorter to reduce SW is usually OK while going longer to increase SW is generally not.

Edited by Stuart G., 07 July 2018 - 04:36 AM.


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#431 Tdsjfb

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 05:25 AM

Very long and convoluted story, but I ordered a G400 driver with a specified makeup (at D3) and decided I wanted to lower the head weight to get closer to D1. I pulled the Ping head weight only to find it to be the lowest (7 gram) insert. I don't really want to alter the static weight of the club (very happy with shaft and grip) so what are my options? I believe the head has 7 grams of Geeloo (hot melt).

For the record, the overall club length is 45.25 with Tour 65 (stiff) shaft with standard GP 2G grip. Static weight is 318 grams.

Edited by Tdsjfb, 15 July 2018 - 05:25 AM.

WITB

Driver: Ping G400 (9 Degree) - HZRDUS Black (63) 6.0
3 Wood: Ping G400 (14.5 Degree) - Tour 65 Stiff
5 Wood: Ping G400 (17.5 Degree) - Tour 75 Stiff
Hybrid: Adams A12 Pro (23 Degree) - RIP Proto 80
Irons: Mizuno MX 300 (5-PW) - KBS Tour
Vokey (50 Degree) Spin Milled - KBS Tour
Vokey (54 Degree) Spin Milled - KBS Tour
Vokey (58 Degree) SM7 S Grind - KBS Tour
Putter: Ping Redwood ZB

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#432 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 06:41 AM

View PostTdsjfb, on 15 July 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

Very long and convoluted story, but I ordered a G400 driver with a specified makeup (at D3) and decided I wanted to lower the head weight to get closer to D1. I pulled the Ping head weight only to find it to be the lowest (7 gram) insert. I don't really want to alter the static weight of the club (very happy with shaft and grip) so what are my options? I believe the head has 7 grams of Geeloo (hot melt).

For the record, the overall club length is 45.25 with Tour 65 (stiff) shaft with standard GP 2G grip. Static weight is 318 grams.

Easiest way is to just choke up a little less than 1/2".   Then cut it down next time you change the grip.

Next easiest would be to just remove the weight plug, put back the screw and use lead tape to make up the difference.  Or might pick up some washers that fit in the recessed area from the local hardware store to replace it.

More involved options would include removing hot melt - it is possible but it's a PITA.  The weight plug can be drilled or ground down to remove some weight as well.

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#433 Tdsjfb

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 08:19 AM

Very helpful - thank you.

With respect to future orders (I'm likely going to order a G400 Max), should I just request D5 with the 13 Gram head weight? I'd rather have more Geeloo for noise reduction and have the ability/flexibility to swap out the 13G weight for the 7G weight to get the SW to D1.

Btw, in order to get heavier SW, is it possible they could place weight in any other places other the head? One more question, can I request with Ping where to place the Geeloo and where would that be (to decrease noise and perhaps lower spin)?

Edited by Tdsjfb, 15 July 2018 - 08:31 AM.

WITB

Driver: Ping G400 (9 Degree) - HZRDUS Black (63) 6.0
3 Wood: Ping G400 (14.5 Degree) - Tour 65 Stiff
5 Wood: Ping G400 (17.5 Degree) - Tour 75 Stiff
Hybrid: Adams A12 Pro (23 Degree) - RIP Proto 80
Irons: Mizuno MX 300 (5-PW) - KBS Tour
Vokey (50 Degree) Spin Milled - KBS Tour
Vokey (54 Degree) Spin Milled - KBS Tour
Vokey (58 Degree) SM7 S Grind - KBS Tour
Putter: Ping Redwood ZB

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#434 mwc104

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:40 AM

Short version - Been choking down on Cobra Fly-Z+ driver an inch and improved accuracy to hitting fairways and surprisingly didn't lose distance. Had driver cut an inch and now I need to figure out swingweight.


Long Version - Been a bit all over with my driver and choking down an inch has improved accuracy and distance. I tried this because I hit my 3 wood (43") straight every time and was curious if getting close to that would make a difference. I went in to the club shop and had the Cobra Fly-Z+ cut down an inch to 44". I have the stock Matrix VLCT ST 65g shaft, Golf Pride MCC grip, and 8g head weight in the front position. Now I'm trying to figure out what the best way to get the swingweight back to close to what it was. It wasn't until after I picked out the grip that I needed to think about its weight. The stock Lamkin grip was 50g and the new GP is 46.5g.

So, I've lost 3.5g on the grip and however much of the 1" cut off the butt end (guessing 1.5 grams). My first instinct was to change out the 8g weight with a 12g, but now I'm not so sure. I feel a bit lost right now...

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#435 Stuart G.

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:50 AM

View Postmwc104, on 17 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Short version - Been choking down on Cobra Fly-Z+ driver an inch and improved accuracy to hitting fairways and surprisingly didn't lose distance. Had driver cut an inch and now I need to figure out swingweight.


Long Version - Been a bit all over with my driver and choking down an inch has improved accuracy and distance. I tried this because I hit my 3 wood (43") straight every time and was curious if getting close to that would make a difference. I went in to the club shop and had the Cobra Fly-Z+ cut down an inch to 44". I have the stock Matrix VLCT ST 65g shaft, Golf Pride MCC grip, and 8g head weight in the front position. Now I'm trying to figure out what the best way to get the swingweight back to close to what it was. It wasn't until after I picked out the grip that I needed to think about its weight. The stock Lamkin grip was 50g and the new GP is 46.5g.

So, I've lost 3.5g on the grip and however much of the 1" cut off the butt end (guessing 1.5 grams). My first instinct was to change out the 8g weight with a 12g, but now I'm not so sure. I feel a bit lost right now...

Forget about grip weight or what the previous swing weight was.   Just get some lead tape, go to the range, and add it back incrementally (~2-3 gm increments).   Choose a final weight based on the feel and the results from that testing.


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#436 mwc104

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:58 AM

View PostStuart G., on 17 July 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

View Postmwc104, on 17 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Short version - Been choking down on Cobra Fly-Z+ driver an inch and improved accuracy to hitting fairways and surprisingly didn't lose distance. Had driver cut an inch and now I need to figure out swingweight.


Long Version - Been a bit all over with my driver and choking down an inch has improved accuracy and distance. I tried this because I hit my 3 wood (43") straight every time and was curious if getting close to that would make a difference. I went in to the club shop and had the Cobra Fly-Z+ cut down an inch to 44". I have the stock Matrix VLCT ST 65g shaft, Golf Pride MCC grip, and 8g head weight in the front position. Now I'm trying to figure out what the best way to get the swingweight back to close to what it was. It wasn't until after I picked out the grip that I needed to think about its weight. The stock Lamkin grip was 50g and the new GP is 46.5g.

So, I've lost 3.5g on the grip and however much of the 1" cut off the butt end (guessing 1.5 grams). My first instinct was to change out the 8g weight with a 12g, but now I'm not so sure. I feel a bit lost right now...

Forget about grip weight or what the previous swing weight was.   Just get some lead tape, go to the range, and add it back incrementally (~2-3 gm increments).   Choose a final weight based on the feel and the results from that testing.

I'll try that, Stuart. As I've never done anything like this in the past, what's the best way/area to place the lead tape on a driver? Or is it just experimenting with different setups?

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#437 Stuart G.

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 11:18 AM

View Postmwc104, on 17 July 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

I'll try that, Stuart. As I've never done anything like this in the past, what's the best way/area to place the lead tape on a driver? Or is it just experimenting with different setups?

I wouldn't worry too much about the location.  Just find a smooth, clean place that wont hit usually hit the ground on slight mishits (near the leading edge).   Get the amount dialed in first, then if you want to do some additional tests, you can see if the location makes a difference.   it usually wont but everyone is a bit different in their sensitivity.

Edited by Stuart G., 17 July 2018 - 11:18 AM.


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#438 jacobEDGE

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 02:55 PM

Are tip weights considered part of a shaft weight increase, or head increase? It's technically installed in the shaft, but it's so damn close to the head.

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#439 Stuart G.

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 03:41 PM

View PostjacobEDGE, on 17 July 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

Are tip weights considered part of a shaft weight increase, or head increase? It's technically installed in the shaft, but it's so damn close to the head.

Head weight.  As is the weight of adapters on adjustable hosel drivers.

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#440 rxk9fan

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 07:24 AM

Picked up a super nice set of MP4's to shaft this winter.  They currently have TT DG S300 shafts and standard issue Mizuno grips.  I have bad elbows so I will go with either 95g Steelfiber or 95g Recoil shafts with mid size MC grips.  So just in general, I am going to decrease shaft weight by 35gm and increase grip weight by 10gm to 15gm?  What would be the sum change from the current SW?
Thank you very much!

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#441 Stuart G.

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 11:57 AM

View Postrxk9fan, on 21 July 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

Picked up a super nice set of MP4's to shaft this winter.  They currently have TT DG S300 shafts and standard issue Mizuno grips.  I have bad elbows so I will go with either 95g Steelfiber or 95g Recoil shafts with mid size MC grips.  So just in general, I am going to decrease shaft weight by 35gm and increase grip weight by 10gm to 15gm?  What would be the sum change from the current SW?
Thank you very much!

Forget the grip weight changes.  The SF i95's will SW only about 1 pt lighter than the DG's so only need about 2-4 gm of tip weights (not including the weight from any tip weights that might already be in there with the DG's).

Edited by Stuart G., 21 July 2018 - 11:57 AM.


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#442 rxk9fan

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 02:40 PM

View PostStuart G., on 21 July 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

View Postrxk9fan, on 21 July 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

Picked up a super nice set of MP4's to shaft this winter.  They currently have TT DG S300 shafts and standard issue Mizuno grips.  I have bad elbows so I will go with either 95g Steelfiber or 95g Recoil shafts with mid size MC grips.  So just in general, I am going to decrease shaft weight by 35gm and increase grip weight by 10gm to 15gm?  What would be the sum change from the current SW?
Thank you very much!

Forget the grip weight changes.  The SF i95's will SW only about 1 pt lighter than the DG's so only need about 2-4 gm of tip weights (not including the weight from any tip weights that might already be in there with the DG's).

Thank you VERY much!!
Have a great weekend!!!
TM M3 with Motore Speeder VC 6.3 Tour Spec Stiff played at 44.5
Callaway 15 degree SZ with Yellow Hzd. stiff playing 1/2 inch short
Titleist 816 19 degree with Speeder Tour Spec Stiff
Titleist 816 23 degree with Speeder Tour Spec Stiff
TM P770's with Steelfiber shafts PW-6i
TM P790 5i
TM Milled Grind 50SB and 54LB
TM Hi Toe 60
Scotty futura 5w

OR

scheduled build to combine Recoil Proto 110 F4 with TM P750 Proto on 8/21/18 :-)

22

#443 Stuart G.

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 03:19 AM

View Postrxk9fan, on 21 July 2018 - 02:40 PM, said:

Thank you VERY much!!
Have a great weekend!!!

Now, keep in mind that's assuming the same swing weight is a good fit when using lighter shafts. That's not always the case.   Same swing weight with different static (shaft) weights doesn't always translate to the same weight feel.   You really should ignore the original swing weight, build a single club (maybe a 7 iron) and refit yourself for swing weight using lead tape on the range (test, add in 2 gm increments, repeat).   Then you can go back and use tip weights if necessary as well as use the new swing weight to build the rest of the set.

Edited by Stuart G., 22 July 2018 - 03:20 AM.


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#444 Pi5seeker

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 04:40 PM

Can going from 47 gram grips to 64 gram grips throw off timing? I haven't played well since going to midsize grips and I'm missing left and right with all clubs.
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#445 Stuart G.

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 03:19 AM

View PostPi5seeker, on 22 July 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

Can going from 47 gram grips to 64 gram grips throw off timing? I haven't played well since going to midsize grips and I'm missing left and right with all clubs.

It usually wont for most, but it is possible.   The change in grip size itself can as well.


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#446 Pi5seeker

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 09:38 AM

View PostStuart G., on 23 July 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

View PostPi5seeker, on 22 July 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

Can going from 47 gram grips to 64 gram grips throw off timing? I haven't played well since going to midsize grips and I'm missing left and right with all clubs.

It usually wont for most, but it is possible.   The change in grip size itself can as well.

Timing is getting better but I feel like I'm having trouble releasing the club with my irons. I'm "supposed" to be midsize grips but the CP2 Pro on a S300 feel huge in both hands. I should have done 1 or 2 clubs before doing the entire set...oh well it's time to change them.
Geek DCT 11.5* Enzo Zone 70
SMT 3390 16* Grafalloy Epic FWY
Maltby KE4 Tour 19* AXE XCaliber
Maltby KE4 Tour HDI 21* S300
Maltby DBM 5-GW S300
Maltby Tour Grind MG 56* 60* R300
Odyssey Works Versa 1W
Z-Star
Clicgear 3.5/Callaway ORG. 14l

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#447 Stuart G.

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 10:09 AM

View PostPi5seeker, on 24 July 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 23 July 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

View PostPi5seeker, on 22 July 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

Can going from 47 gram grips to 64 gram grips throw off timing? I haven't played well since going to midsize grips and I'm missing left and right with all clubs.

It usually wont for most, but it is possible.   The change in grip size itself can as well.

Timing is getting better but I feel like I'm having trouble releasing the club with my irons. I'm "supposed" to be midsize grips but the CP2 Pro on a S300 feel huge in both hands. I should have done 1 or 2 clubs before doing the entire set...oh well it's time to change them.

"supposed to be" based on what?   The ONLY thing that matters is how comfortable does the size of the grip feel to you.  If they feel "huge" and uncomfortable, then they are very likely too big and the source of your problems.   Find the size that allows you to feel like you have a nice secure hold on the club with the least amount of effort (or grip tension).

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#448 Pi5seeker

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 10:11 AM

View PostStuart G., on 24 July 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

View PostPi5seeker, on 24 July 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 23 July 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

View PostPi5seeker, on 22 July 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

Can going from 47 gram grips to 64 gram grips throw off timing? I haven't played well since going to midsize grips and I'm missing left and right with all clubs.

It usually wont for most, but it is possible.   The change in grip size itself can as well.

Timing is getting better but I feel like I'm having trouble releasing the club with my irons. I'm "supposed" to be midsize grips but the CP2 Pro on a S300 feel huge in both hands. I should have done 1 or 2 clubs before doing the entire set...oh well it's time to change them.

"supposed to be" based on what?   The ONLY thing that matters is how comfortable does the size of the grip feel to you.  If they feel "huge" and uncomfortable, then they are very likely too big and the source of your problems.   Find the size that allows you to feel like you have a nice secure hold on the club with the least amount of effort (or grip tension).

Based on measurements but yes I agree, comfort is the only thing that matters.
Geek DCT 11.5* Enzo Zone 70
SMT 3390 16* Grafalloy Epic FWY
Maltby KE4 Tour 19* AXE XCaliber
Maltby KE4 Tour HDI 21* S300
Maltby DBM 5-GW S300
Maltby Tour Grind MG 56* 60* R300
Odyssey Works Versa 1W
Z-Star
Clicgear 3.5/Callaway ORG. 14l

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#449 Stuart G.

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 10:27 AM

All those static measurements ONLY provide a starting point for the fitting process.   No static measurement will ever tell you what you SHOULD be using.

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#450 Pi5seeker

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 02:07 PM

View PostStuart G., on 24 July 2018 - 10:27 AM, said:

All those static measurements ONLY provide a starting point for the fitting process.   No static measurement will ever tell you what you SHOULD be using.

That makes sense. I really like the MCC Plus 4's I have on a couple of hybrids but they're expensive. I bought some Z5 Tour taper's today so we shall see...thank you.

Geek DCT 11.5* Enzo Zone 70
SMT 3390 16* Grafalloy Epic FWY
Maltby KE4 Tour 19* AXE XCaliber
Maltby KE4 Tour HDI 21* S300
Maltby DBM 5-GW S300
Maltby Tour Grind MG 56* 60* R300
Odyssey Works Versa 1W
Z-Star
Clicgear 3.5/Callaway ORG. 14l

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