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Swing weight factors in relation to parts


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#361 Stuart G.

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 04:34 AM

View PostMatt J, on 14 December 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Why are manufacturers making driver heads so heavy?

I just bought a swingweight scale and am trying to add consistency through the bag by getting my clubs reasonably close to each other and ascending in weight from driver through wedge.

Even with relatively light shafts and short lengths it's hard to get my driver down below D3 or D4.  I measured the static weight and it's around 200 grams which seems to be about average for driver heads.  Seems much more reasonable to put weight ports and the option for a very light (as light as possible) cover for the port and then ascending weight in 5 gram increments.  But, realistically if you're going to run a shaft over 60 grams it seems there's no way to get under D5 or D6 without counterweighting.

I love the ball flight of my hybrids, but I achieve that through heavy shafts.   As a result they have very high swingweight.  If I gain a point or two through the bag my irons and wedges would have to be in the E range.  Seems ridiculous.

You said it yourself, your head weight is around 200 gm which is completely normal and has been for a while.   The problem isn't that the driver head weight is high, the problem in keeping the SW down is that the lengths have been getting longer and longer.   Instead of going lighter with the head, you are much better off going shorter with the playing length - especially if better consistency is your goal.


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#362 Matt J

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 01:04 PM

View PostStuart G., on 16 December 2016 - 04:34 AM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 14 December 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Why are manufacturers making driver heads so heavy?

I just bought a swingweight scale and am trying to add consistency through the bag by getting my clubs reasonably close to each other and ascending in weight from driver through wedge.

Even with relatively light shafts and short lengths it's hard to get my driver down below D3 or D4.  I measured the static weight and it's around 200 grams which seems to be about average for driver heads.  Seems much more reasonable to put weight ports and the option for a very light (as light as possible) cover for the port and then ascending weight in 5 gram increments.  But, realistically if you're going to run a shaft over 60 grams it seems there's no way to get under D5 or D6 without counterweighting.

I love the ball flight of my hybrids, but I achieve that through heavy shafts.   As a result they have very high swingweight.  If I gain a point or two through the bag my irons and wedges would have to be in the E range.  Seems ridiculous.

You said it yourself, your head weight is around 200 gm which is completely normal and has been for a while.   The problem isn't that the driver head weight is high, the problem in keeping the SW down is that the lengths have been getting longer and longer.   Instead of going lighter with the head, you are much better off going shorter with the playing length - especially if better consistency is your goal.

Actually I'm very consistent and like the extra distance of the longer shaft, just don't want a driver at E swingweight.

Just seems like it would be pretty easy to put options for adding weight and a lot easier than removing it.

I've got a few projects I'm going to play with to try and get my woods reasonably well matched, just defies logic that woods are playing heavier than wedges these days.
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#363 MIRAMAR

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 12:16 PM

View Post78blades, on 29 July 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

IMO, swing wt is the cheapest way, (and I do mean CHEAP), of balancing the clubs out. I much perfer taking the heads off of the shafts, weighing the heads and either drilling out wt from the hosel or adding lead tip wt so all the heads are 6-8 grams apart from each other. This makes for a very nice feeling set of clubs with proper shafts lengths.

For those of you that think this is way too difficult, it isn't. If one has any mechanical skill at all this is a very easy process, you just need the tools and they aren't all that expensive.

How drilling or even sawing down the hosel would affect flex, CG, sweetspot location, kick point, swingweight, launch etc, generally speaking?

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#364 Matt J

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 12:19 PM

I think he's just talking about boring the depth a little deeper if it's heavy and adding a little lead if it's light.

Shouldn't effect COG in a measurable way.

I like the idea although I'd probably just epoxy a tip weight in if it's light.
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#365 MIRAMAR

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 09:40 PM

View Post78blades, on 29 July 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

IMO, swing wt is the cheapest way, (and I do mean CHEAP), of balancing the clubs out. I much perfer taking the heads off of the shafts, weighing the heads and either drilling out wt from the hosel or adding lead tip wt so all the heads are 6-8 grams apart from each other. This makes for a very nice feeling set of clubs with proper shafts lengths.

For those of you that think this is way too difficult, it isn't. If one has any mechanical skill at all this is a very easy process, you just need the tools and they aren't all that expensive.

If the hosel bore is tapered rather than parallel, wouldn't drilling it deeper be a serious problem? I mean, the bottom of the cavity, which was tapered, will become parallel or more parallel -- since you are using a "parallel" drill.

I'm recovering a set of old Tourney Customs with extra long hosels, so there is plenty of material either to drill the bore deeper AND/OR saw the hosel down or roughening it outside.

Clubhead weights are:

#2: 244 gr.
#3: 247  
#4: 253
#5: 260
#6: 268
#7: 274
#8: 275 !!!
#9: 284
#10: 291

Thx for any clues.

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#366 MIRAMAR

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 09:49 PM

View PostMIRAHow drilling or even sawing down the hosel would affect flex, CG, sweetspot location, kick point, swingweight, launch etc, generally speaking?[/quote][quote name=, on 25 December 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

View Post78blades, on 29 July 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

IMO, swing wt is the cheapest way, (and I do mean CHEAP), of balancing the clubs out. I much perfer taking the heads off of the shafts, weighing the heads and either drilling out wt from the hosel or adding lead tip wt so all the heads are 6-8 grams apart from each other. This makes for a very nice feeling set of clubs with proper shafts lengths.

For those of you that think this is way too difficult, it isn't. If one has any mechanical skill at all this is a very easy process, you just need the tools and they aren't all that expensive.

How drilling or even sawing down the hosel would affect flex, CG, sweetspot location, kick point, swingweight, launch etc, generally speaking?

Sorry, this was unintendedly copied, glued and posted. I meant to add the second post only.

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#367 Stuart G.

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 03:54 AM

View PostMIRAMAR, on 12 January 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

If the hosel bore is tapered rather than parallel, wouldn't drilling it deeper be a serious problem? I mean, the bottom of the cavity, which was tapered, will become parallel or more parallel -- since you are using a "parallel" drill.

For that approach one should use a drill bit with a maximum diameter slightly smaller than the shaft tip so as to remove material but not change the insertion depth of the shaft. In fact, not sure but I think it's common to start with a very small diameter, and gradually increase the bit diameter until you get the final hole size you want.   If the drilling is properly centered, it wont have any impact on a possible taper.

If you have no experience drilling/milling metal - I'd find someone that does.   This is not a job that can typically be done without the right tools and technique.  Or maybe a better way to say it is that it's a job that is possible but can easily be messed up w/o them.   e.g.  A good drill press, the right bit, the right drill speed and material removal rate, proper mounting of the head, and proper lubrication.

Edited by Stuart G., 13 January 2017 - 03:57 AM.


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#368 MIRAMAR

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:54 AM

View PostStuart G., on 13 January 2017 - 03:54 AM, said:

View PostMIRAMAR, on 12 January 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

If the hosel bore is tapered rather than parallel, wouldn't drilling it deeper be a serious problem?

If you have no experience drilling/milling metal - I'd find someone that does.   This is not a job that can typically be done without the right

Thx for clarifying, sound advice! Just need to know whether is there anything like a standard, or ideal, iron club head weight? Let's say, a 6 iron shd ideally weigh 260 grams, for example.

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#369 Stuart G.

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:30 AM

Well the 'standard' is rough at best and is not necessarily the same thing as ideal - since different playing lengths, different shaft weights and balance points, and different preferences for SW/MOI will really dictate what the ideal head weight is.

But yes roughly 260-262 for a 6 iron and about ~7 gm increments between irons for SW matching and 1/2" length increments.

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#370 MIRAMAR

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:27 PM

View PostHoward Jones, on 25 March 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

View Postthomas55, on 24 March 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

I hope you guys don't mind me jumping in.  I was reading through and joey3108 said something that made me wonder about an issue with my irons. I had mine reshafted and made 3/4' longer. When I picked them up my 7 iron was D6 and I was told they were all D6
I played them throughout the summer and thought some felt heavier than others but thought it was just me.
A friend of mine just bought a scale and here is what I found
3 iron D8 415 grms.
4 iron D9 410 grms.
5 iron D9 420 grms.
6 iron D7 420 grms.
7 iron D6.5 420 grms.
8 iron D7.5 425 grms.
9 iron D5.5 435 grms.
PW D6 445 grms.
52W  D5.5  480 grms.
56W  D6 480 grms
60W  D4 480 grms.
How can I get the swing weight down in my long irons without adding weight under the grips? You said that you felt counter weighting was like cheating. I know it would take 5 grms added to the butt end just to change 1 SW point that seems like a lot of weight to be adding. Is there some other way?

Depending on what heads you got, there might be an option for a skilled club maker to hosel bore out some weight from the heads. Its done by using a smaller diameter than the shaft, so insertion dept for the shaft remains the same. Some irons already got a hosel bore as a weight pocket, and then its very limited.
Thx for all your posts & pragmatic, no-nonsense approach, learning a lot.
Creating a hollow cavity below bottom of bore couldn't possibly affect performance/playability in unforeseen ways?  Or weaken the hosel too much in case you need to alter lie/loft? Changing a set of ol' Tourney Customs with extra long hosel bore (1.40"), so theres plenty of material to work with. Thought about milling hosels some 2-3 mm AND drilling the bore deeper for the more overweighted heads . I'd like to reduce total weight and sort head weights but increase a little bit from D1 in the end.

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